Smoke bomb, "kike" graffiti, swastikas in anti-Semitic spree at synagogues in New York

[breadandwine]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/06/27/2009-06-27_cops_arrest_two_teens_on_lower_east_side_for_antisemetic_spree.html

[MineralMan]

1. Not muslims if they use that word...

Rightwing skinhead creepos, instead.

[Jim Sagle]

2. Nice fast jump to a wrong conclusion. From the link:

The kids - a 15-year-old Asian male and a 16-year-old black male - were charged with aggravated harassment, criminal mischief and reckless endangerment, all as hate crimes.

So we know they're not skinheads. As to whether either or both is Muslim, there's no evidence either way. But the term "Asian" is sometimes used by newspapers as a euphemism to avoid the term "Muslim."

[MineralMan]

3. Well, that'll teach me to post from just the OP.

My bad.

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. agree. Thanks for the clarification

[Starbucks Anarchist]

14. "Asian" refers to Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.

"Middle Eastern" would be the phrase they use as a euphemism for "Muslim."

[mamaleah]

18. Asian can also refer to people from Pakistan or Malaysia

which both have high Muslim populations.

In the UK, Asian is often used to reference someone from Pakistan.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

19. In this country, it refers to the ones I mentioned.

Indians and Pakistanis are South Asians, but just "Asians" is akin to "Oriental."

[mamaleah]

20. Well, I doubt they were white supremacist skinheads.

But they are without a doubt disgusting anti-semitic pieces of crap.

[breadandwine]

41. Even the biggest leftist can be an anti-Semite.

They just call it anti-Zionism and that way they can join the country club too.

As Martin Luther King said:

"When people attack Zionists they are talking about Jews."

[breadandwine]

40. Anti-Semitism has been known to arise without regard to race, creed, color or national origin.

...

[rucky]

21. Ages 15 and 16 is all you really need to know.

I wouldn't read much more into it than that.

[breadandwine]

42. Are you implying that it's just rowdy kids getting a little out of hand?

Youngins having fun?

Anti-Semitic monsters who perpetrated atrocities had to start somewhere. Childhood for instance.

[Jim Sagle]

25. Nonetheless, "Asian" IS sometimes used as a euphemism for "Middle Eastern."

[breadandwine]

4. Video - NY State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver comments ---

http://matzav.com/swastika-painted-on-speaker-silvers-shul/

[Behind the Aegis]

5. And they just keep coming....

[breadandwine]

6. Exactly. Some people just can't get enough anti-Semitism.

They didn't make enough belts out of the Jews. They didn't make enough lampshades out of the Jews.

[boppers]

17. About lampshades/leather:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2511/did-the-nazis-make-lampshades-out-of-human-skin

[Behind the Aegis]

23. consider....

Frau Ilse Koch, General Lucius Clay,
and Human-Skin Atrocities
By Jamie McCarthy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ilse Koch (her first name has two syllables; her last name sounds like the Scottish "loch") is the most famous of all Germans accused of having committed atrocities during the war. She was the wife of the commandant of the Buchenwald camp. She was twice convicted in post-war trials, once by an international court and once by her own country. The chief charges against her were cruelty to inmates, including murder, but what she is best-known for is the making of human-skin ornaments, including the lampshades of which we've all heard.

It's exceedingly well-documented that such ornaments did exist; there's no question but that someone made them out of human skin. When one can see a book whose cover is tanned skin with a decorative tattoo on it, there's little question that the skin was that of a human being. If one has any doubt as to the origin of the substance, one should examine the forensic report conducted on some of the skin. It concludes, based on microscopic examination and the placement of the nipples and navel, that the skin was certainly human.

Various Holocaust-deniers, however, have attempted to cast doubt upon the existence of this skin, and upon the guilt of Ilse Koch in particular. Arthur Butz writes: <1>


The tattooed skin was undoubtedly due to the medical experiment role of Buchenwald. As remarked by Burney , when a Buchenwald inmate died the camp doctors looked his body over and if they found something interesting they saved it. It is fairly certain that the collection of medical specimens thus gathered was the source of the tattooed skin and the human head that turned up at the IMT as "exhibits" relating to people "murdered" at Buchenwald. <...>

...in 1948 the American military governor, General Lucius Clay, reviewed her case and determined that, despite testimony produced at her trial, Frau Koch could not be related to the lampshades and other articles which were "discovered" (i.e. planted) in the Buchenwald commandant's residence when the camp was captured in 1945. For one thing, she had not lived there since her husband's, and her own, arrest in 1943. Also her "family journal," said to be bound in human skin, and which was one of the major accusations against her, was never located, and obviously never existed. more at source

---snip---

Human Skin Lampshade Myth?

However, it turns out that the stories of human skin lampshades are probably poorly grounded. There's no denying that the Nazis committed horrible atrocities and murdered millions during the Holocaust, but this horrific genocide was so bad that there's no need for exaggeration. Like the myth of human soap that was debunked 10-15 years ago, the story of human skin lampshades is based largely on rumors and can't be substantiated.

To get to the bottom of this, I interviewed Ken Kipperman, a leading authority on Nazi use of human remains and Polish-American son of Jewish parents who fled the Holocaust. He is the subject of a 2004 documentary, Shadows of Silence, about his obsessive search for lost human remains from the Holocaust and his compulsive quest to uncover the truth about the notorious "human skin" lampshade shown in an army newsreel days after the liberation of Buchenwald. It turns out, Kipperman tells me, that the famous lampshade from the newsreel footage was not made out of human skin, though it was believed to be at the time, and no human skin lampshades have ever been verified, though he says it's always possible that one or two were made in isolated incidents.

On the other hand, the Nazis did collect numerous pieces of human skin from concentration camp victims, and were particularly fixated on skin with tattoos, especially colorful tattoos with obscene images. Kipperman has found eight items of human skin in government archives in the Washington, D.C. area where they were filed away and forgotten about after being used as evidence in war crimes trials. Kipperman's conclusions comport with those of a June 2004 issue of the online de-bunking column The Straight Dope, which determined, "While the Nazis kept many grisly mementos of their victims, including tattooed skin, the lampshade claim may be a myth."

source

[boppers]

26. Thanks for the text and links.

It's a fairly grisly topic, but I work (from time to time) on the wikipedia Holocaust article, trying to make sure factual data is present.

One of the more odd, and difficult, parts of the work, is navigating between true atrocities claimed to be false, and false atrocities claimed to be true.

Lots of fact checking.

[breadandwine]

28. First of all only a handful of Nazis were ever nailed for their crimes.

There were literally millions who beat the rap.


Secondly, anyone can be a doubter but you can't dismiss the lampshade charge only by questioning the charge against Ilse Koch. There was also the charge against "Irma Grese, she was the lady of the lamp shades, she had lamp shades made out of human skin - And this is true, she was in Belsen, she was commandant of the women and deputy commandant of the camp and she had bodies skinned (mostly they were dead, but not always) and the skin was used to make lampshades." -- see: http://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/holocaust/testimonies/hr_east_renfrewshire/hr_bob_kutner/lamp_shade_made_out_of_skin.htm

By the way, while we're on the subject of beating the rap, have you ever heard of:

um, Michael Jackson?

Did he ever molest children? Not according to the court.

Yet he reportedly used to say to children, "Let's do rubba!" whatever that meant.

And more importantly, his own sister on national television accused him of molesting children and said he needed help. Jackson bought his way out of the charges but he was accused repeatedly.

How many people were just murdered in Iran by the regime? How can you be so sure??? None of this has been proven in court! How do you know who your father is? Only because your mother told you so!!!

Do you believe O.J. Simpson was innocent? He was found innocent by a court of law!!!! Now he's back in jail. A 1997 judgment against Simpson for wrongful deaths was awarded in civil court by a jury. In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada and charged with numerous felonies, including robbery with a deadly weapon, burglary with a firearm, assault with a deadly weapon, first-degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, coercion with use of a deadly weapon, conspiracy to commit robbery, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, and conspiracy to commit a crime. A jury found Simpson guilty of all charges on October 3, 2008 and he was sentenced on December 5 to at least nine years in prison. He is currently serving his sentence at the Lovelock Correctional Center in Lovelock, Nevada. Incidentally, after his famous trial Simpson was accused of threatening a new girlfriend for seeing someone else.

BUT THAT'S JUST A COINCIDENCE.

The fact remains that charges of human lampshades concerned more than one camp. You can dissect your little factoid or look at the big picture, the pattern.

Or consider John Demjanjuk who beat the rap in Israel despite a photo of his face being superimposed over a photo of the original Ivan the Terrible square by square to show they were the same.

Do you know why he beat the rap in Israel? Somebody produced a piece of documentation from the Soviet Union that he was actually a guard at another death camp.

That made him "innocent" by "reason of doubt"!

In fact, he was shuttling back and forth amongst more than one camp and now he's been sent overseas for more legal proceedings. Demjanjuk's defense was, I wasn't killing people over here, I was busy killing people over there!!!!

It was a whole industry. The Nazis were also taking hair from Jews for mattresses and they were extracting gold from Jewish teeth. They were using Jewish body parts for medical studies and they were doing medical experiments on live Jews in order to research chemical weapons development and much else. After the war the US eventually shelved further proceedings because they needed the Nazi scientists and doctors for America's own weapons development and they needed German steel for weapons used in the Korean War. NASA was eventually packed with Nazis brought over from the Nazi rocket program. Do you know how many people Wernher von Braun killed before he went to work for NASA with his past swept under the rug? He was a leader of the German rocket program that was bombing civilians in England. To quote the Tom Lehrer song about him, "'Once the rockets are up who cares where they come down? That's not my department,' says Wernher von Braun."

There's a long list of Nazis who beat the rap.

They're all innocent of course!

[PCIntern]

31. Excellent post. n/t

[breadandwine]

43. The Nazis were also going to put stuffed Jews in a museum ---

There was a Jewish Holocaust survivor that the Nazis told her they were going to put her in a museum sort of like a wax museum with stuffed Jews to showcase "subhumans who used to exist" --- after all the Jews in the world were gotten rid of.

[breadandwine]

45. Demjanjuk to stand trial ---

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/07/03/world/AP-EU-Germany-Demjanjuk.html?_r=1&hp




How can that be? Didn't another court already find him innocent by reason of doubt??????????????????????????????????????

[mamaleah]

7. I doubt they will ever stop.

The very fact that we still exist and will continue to disturbs the little maggoty anti-Semites.

[breadandwine]

9. Although, in school I've seen some of them stop.

After they got taught a lesson.

[mamaleah]

10. How is it a thread about any other type of hate crime

would get many more responses, but anti-semitism does not?

What, the group targeted is not worthy enough?

Really makes you wonder.

[Deja Q]

12. People love to label things and some things are more politically fun, I suppose.

I just think almost all crimes are made because OF hate. I see no logic in being discriminating in intent. Hate is typically one of two core emotions behind criminal acts.

[mamaleah]

15. I think to many, anti-Semitism is

not that bad because all they are thinking about is Middle East tensions.

I also think those people are asshats, but that's just my opinion.

[breadandwine]

22. I agree that there seems to be some sort of double standard when it comes to anti-Semitism.

A real good question is:

Why?


I'd like to hear some people try to "explain," i.e., excuse that.

[mamaleah]

32. I don't think there is any explanation.

In my experience (not here but in regular conversations) that the regular excuse is "well it's tied to what Israel does".

Because we all know, Israel is 1)ALWAYS to blame and 2) Jews in the U.S. should be 'punished' for the perceived evils that Israelis do.

[breadandwine]

34. Martin Luther King said, "When people attack Zionists they are talking about Jews."

I think there are a lot of people in the world who, deep down, just can't STAND the Jews. They go underground after a major wave of Jew killing and then they start chomping at the bit that they can't "express" themselves. So they need labels and excuses and fig leaves. They aren't anti-Jewish, they're anti-Israel.

But isn't that just like all the other excuses for anti-Semitism? This one insists he doesn't like the Jews because they're too liberal. That one doesn't like the Jews because they're too conservative or capitalistic. When the Jews make money they're too rich. When they don't they're "dirty beggars." I've actually seen neo-Nazi leaflets that say, "The only solution to Jewish capitalism OR Jewish communism is National Socialism!" That's an exact quote. They've actually got the opposing ideologies down to the Jews in a single sentence. All ills of mankind are subsumed under a single menace: The Jew.

This one doesn't like Jews because they aren't Muslim or aren't Christian enough, didn't convert after all these centuries etc. Not only the anti-Zionists. EVERY anti-Semite has his anti-Semitism "flavored" one way or another with some excuse. "I wouldn't be against the Jews EXCEPT that..." Or they plug in the ever-ready prefix "ultra." "I'm not against the Jews, I'm only against the ULTRA Jews." Ultra-Zionist, ultra-religious, ultra-devout. I'm not against doctors. Just ULTRA doctors.

The Jew will never fit into any of the big blocs, majorities. The big blocs, the big populations are too big to fully destroy each other so they all settle on "everyone's second choice" for a scapegoat: The Jew. Now THERE'S something everyone can agree on! It's like Tom Lehrer's 1960s song, "National Brotherhood Week." The song says, "Oh the white folks hate the black folks, and the black folks hate the white folks. All of my folks hate all of your folks aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand everybody hates the Jews!"

The UN actually is a perfect example of this. The whole world is going off a cliff, global warming and a million other crises. But what occupies the UN more than anything? The JEW. Hardly a day goes by that the UN isn't passing some screeching resolution against Israel, a country the size of New Jersey, West Bank and Golan Heights included --- the scourge of mankind!

[mamaleah]

35. I am impressed some days.

Only 13-14 million of us and we cause the world so many fits.

[breadandwine]

36. Exactly. The world denies the centrality of the Jewish contribution to leading religions,

science, medicine and other fields but they are OBSESSED with giving Jews the attention they say we don't deserve.

Jews constitute less than two-tenths of one percent of the world's population, less than the 19 million Amhara in Africa that nobody has heard of. Yet between 1901 and 2008, more than 750 Nobel Prizes were handed out and of these, at least 163 were Jews. That's over twenty percent. The fields where Jews won include literature, chemistry, economics, medicine, physics and, for the Israel-haters, that PARTICULARLY uncomfortable one, nine Nobel Peace Prizes. Those lousy Jews with their book learning.


See, that's where the Jewish conspiracy kicks in.


(Nobel Prizes awarded to Jews --- http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nobels.html )

[breadandwine]

37. Even in humor some people can't resist the urge to cry Jewish conspiracy ---

It's the knee-jerk reaction to everything.

Palestinian comedian writes column, "Is Facebook an Israeli plot to control the world?" ---


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246296539930&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


Yeah, I was only kidding, blah blah.

Tsunamis, earthquakes in Asia, bunions, halitosis, it's all the fault of the Jews.

[breadandwine]

39. In the words of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser --

"NOBODY cares about the JEWS!"

[Deja Q]

11. Michael Jackson used the "k-word" in his song "They don't care about us"

http://rabbijaffe.today.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-jew-me-kike-me-video/
(warning, graphic, but the offending words sound 'scratched' out)

He was angry enough to say it at the time. I wonder why, in all seriousness...

Not to hijack the thread. When I read the k-word, I immediately though of the song. Never saw the video until today... don't want to see the video ever again.

[breadandwine]

38. I don't know what he was trying to prove by that.

But it's an instant way to get attention. Controversy sells. Just look at Mel Gibson's "Passion" movie. He knew that no matter how much Jews might want to respect Christians and maintain good relations, if he pushed Jewish buttons enough (and the film actually goes beyond the New Testament in how it trashes Jews) sooner or later Jews would have to speak out in defense and criticize the film. And then Gibson would have free publicity for his movie --- the Jews don't like my movie, go see it!

[readmoreoften]

13. I've seen some mindblowingly fucked up antisemitic shit in NYC.

Once when the mitzvah vans were riding down the street and the little kids were waving out the window, I saw some African-American scream and salute "heil hitler" and a white guy the next block down scream slurs. Antisemitism is as toxic and alive as its ever been.

[breadandwine]

29. Also, in some neighborhoods Halloween has become "Jew-hunting" season.

People write swastikas and vandalize Jewish stores. I've met Jews who will not open their stores on Halloween because of this. Not because of general lawlessness but specifically because of anti-Semitic violence and anti-Semitic vandalism on Halloween.

[readmoreoften]

33. Doesn't seem far-fetched to me. /nt

[elleng]

16. Asian and black.

You've got to be taught.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqkROR-aeew

[proteus_lives]

27. Wow. That's a powerful video.

[bridgit]

24. Not good

[LeftishBrit]

30. Disgusting. Seems like hate never goes out of fashion.

[breadandwine]

44. Some haters find a way out of their hatred....

....SO TO SPEAK. They find "common ground" by joining up with their worst enemies to form a coalition against a single scapegoat.

Guess who.