A former friend of mine, going to prison for possessing child porn

[Philosoraptor]

An old friend and former business associate of mine here in the midwest pleaded guilty the other day to downloading and possessing child porn. He was also a music teacher in two local schools. He has a 22 year old daughter. I was totally shocked when I first heard about my former friend last fall, and everyone who knew him is shocked as well.

Although he may never have actually touched a child in a sexual way, his computer had hundreds of thousands of images of children who were exploited in the most horrific ways. There are real victims in child porn, and real criminals. He was caught up in a year and a half investigation, which also turned out to be a sting operation, now he's facing a minimum of 5 years, and a max of 110 years. He awaits sentencing.

Although I only knew one side of this guy, there was another, sinister side. I have sympathy for his family, but none whatsoever for his criminal activity involving child porn. It doesn't matter how nice of a guy he was all those years ago when I worked with him, I can't separate this knowledge of his pedophile side, from his public side. I wish I could explain it better, but that is the general consensus among all my friends who know this guy too.

I can never think about this man in any other context than as a pedophile, and I loathe pedophiles. He was one of the sweetest guys I ever met or worked with, very personable, people friendly, highly intelligent and respected by everyone who knew him, which is why it was such a shock to all of us who know him. We just can't think of him in any other way now, which is very, very sad.

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-kansas-city-teacher-child-porn,0,323308.story

[Cleita]

1. Yes, it really takes you back especially when you didn't pay attention to the

signs. I had a friend like that who turned out to be a serial murderer. In retrospect the signs where there but I ignored them because it wasn't something I wanted to believe about a friend. I went to visit him in prison a couple of times but I really got nauseated just thinking about what he did so I never went again. I didn't want to have anything to do with him any more.

[jasi2006]

27. I felt the same way about a renown scientist I worked with athe the

"premier" bio-medical research institution in the nation. Knew him for years, nicest person you would want to meet. Kind, gental, smart...child molester.

[closeupready]

31. Wow. How awful.

When you found out, you must have just felt so crappy and angry.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

2. I know a guy that is a voyeur and I did not understand the allure of being a voyeur until one day I

realized that people get a thrill just from the act of doing something that is taboo. The voyeur practices voyeurism simply because he gets a thrill from doing something that he considers is a taboo. I know that my friend was not a peeping Tom and I know he was really very average. And some people are thrilled by fantasies that they would never care to put into practice. People are very complex. Your friend may have just had a taboo fantasy that never harmed or injured anyone. Your judgment about him is your own to have of course and I do not mean to criticize. Just trying to exhibit another a point of view is all.

[shadowknows69]

3. Never harmed anyone? What about the kids who were exploited for the porn?

Lives ruined! Did he shoot the pictures? No, but if there wasn't an appetite for it such crimes wouldn't exist. He's an accomplice to horrors anyway you look at it.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

6. Yes I know the law. So if they had been just drawings or realistic paintings then it would be OK.

It is like being guilty of a hate crime if a person watches the shooting of Reagan and enjoys the show. And stop to think also that many pedos have been sexually abused as children also. But please flame away.

[pnwmom]

10. The difference is that people are creating a market for child pornography,

thereby causing more children to be injured.

And the vast majority of abused children do NOT go on to abuse others. Those who do must be held accountable.

[Kitty Herder]

4. This isn't about voyeurism.

People who get off on child porn get off on victimizing children, even if they're not doing it directly. It's about having power over someone much weaker than yourself.

To say that he didn't harm anyone is ignorant in the extreme. REAL children are harmed horribly, scarred for life in the production of child porn and those who create the market for it are as guilty as those who create it. It's not just a naughty taboo. It's a violent crime against children.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

13. Not really

People who get off on child porn get off on victimizing children, even if they're not doing it directly. It's about having power over someone much weaker than yourself.

There are always exceptions - especially when you make an absolute rule to justify a wrong.

To say that he didn't harm anyone is ignorant in the extreme. REAL children are harmed horribly, scarred for life in the production of child porn and those who create the market for it are as guilty as those who create it. It's not just a naughty taboo. It's a violent crime against children.

And many pedos are victims of sex abuse as children. And many live with the shame of feeling sexually stimulated as a child during the abuse. And the stimulation of the sex at that early age is carried into their adulthood. And they know that it would be wrong to actually practice their fantasy and so they do not.

Surely you realize that people who abuse women had been raised in abusive homes. And that is why they are so sorry about their own abuse against women. So it happens with sexually abused children and their actions as adults. The angry adult that was abused are more prone to act as you say.

I have never met a pedo as far as I know. But I have met a voyeur. That is why I mentioned him. It was just to equate a person fantasying about a sexual taboo aned being stimulated by it.

[Kitty Herder]

17. It does not matter to me if they were sexually abused as children.

As adults, they have the ability to make moral judgments and are responsible for their acts. The act of consuming child porn creates a demand for more children to be abused like they were. That is wrong and criminal. The fantasy is of victimizing children, as they were victimized, not of voyeurism. By consuming child porn, they act out that fantasy. They are not keeping it in their head, not preventing children from being victimized, but CAUSING real children to be victimized.

Also, many pedophiles frequently use child porn to soften up their victims. They show it to them to say, "See. It's ok. Other children do this." They also use it to show children what to do.

It is NOT ok for adult to use children for sexual purposes in any way, even indirectly by viewing someone else doing it.

What if this man's daughter had found his stash of porn as a child? How do you think that would have effected her? Would she have been able to trust her father anymore? I doubt it. A great deal of insecurity and possibly trauma would have entered her young life. A child cannot deal with the idea of having a parent seeing them in a sexual way. I know this from personal experience.

[pnwmom]

8. The man in the OP was part of a market for which people exploited children sexually.

Therefore he DID harm children.

And your friend the voyeur is invading the privacy of others.

[Philosoraptor]

9. Apparently he 'subscribed' to the sites, and paid money to them

What an idiot

[pnwmom]

11. It must be hard for you to deal with having had him in your life.

That kind of revelation would shake anyone up. Well, at least anyone with some sensitivity.

[pnwmom]

12. Does this man have a wife and/or children? How awful for them if he does. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Egads. So he financed the rapes. LOTS of them, if the hundreds of thousands figure is to be trusted.

Fuck him with the Sears Tower coated in ground glass.

[Arkana]

42. Dude...you're not seriously white knighting a kiddy-diddler, are you?

[vogonity]

5. I am wondering if in retrospect there were any signs you saw...

Or was there nothing whatsoever that he ever revealed about his sinister side.

Also, one wonders (if it is not too much to ask) if he is someone you just lost touch with or has *now* become a former friend. In any case I am sorry because even if it is someone you weren't close with anymore it is still a shock.

[Philosoraptor]

7. 10 years ago he showed no obvious signs, but he wouldn't of course

[SoCalDem]

14. You never truly "know" another person.

What they leave behind in drawers, on computers defines them...(word to the wise, here)

Sometimes they get found out, before they die, and people around them are stunned..

[mediaman007]

15. A cop told me that a lot of pedophiles are teachers and coaches.

[shadowknows69]

16. Sharks swim where the fish are

[LWolf]

20. Lovely.

This teacher appreciates your help in further defaming my profession.

NOT.

[shadowknows69]

35. My parents are both teachers so you can stow that.

I was in no way trying to defame what I consider the most honorable profession there is. I was simply making an observation that a pedophile might be inclined to position himself/herself closer to victims. Particularly in a position of honor and trust where many accusations will end up boiling down to a child's word against a "respected" adult. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I assure you I have nothing but love for teachers. That said one of my own teachers tried to molest a friend of mine in the 80's, and was eventually convicted of similar conduct about 20 years later. So it happens, rare, but it happens. I hope you understand the point I was trying to make.
Respectfully
-S

[LWolf]

46. I know it happens.

Teachers do everything that the general population does. That's where we come from.

I also understand the idea that the profession might attract some who want to be close to children for the wrong reasons, in the same way that law enforcement can attract those who are addicted to power. I understand it, but I don't agree with it.

I know that the qualities that draw people into the teaching profession, at least the part of the profession that deals with minors, almost always have more to do with making the world a better place, with serving the community, than they do with power trips or other dysfunctions. The kinds of scrutiny we get to achieve, and then keep, our license will filter out most of the predators of any kind.

That's why pedophiles are rare in education.

To listen to the general public, though, teachers are a pack of wolves, taking out all of their own dysfunctions and angst out on innocent children.

If the ratio of positive to negative threads about teachers at DU, or stories about teachers in the news, reflected reality, I wouldn't protest.

Instead, we have a decades long propaganda campaign to portray teachers as incompetent and mean-spirited, which has obviously been famously successful, judging by the eagerness of even supposed liberals to dive into teacher bashing.

So I really don't appreciate any suggestions that my profession attracts pedophiles.

Are they there? Yes. They are RARE, though. They don't congregate in the profession, where they are examined a hell of a lot more closely than they are in professions that don't directly serve minors.

[sharesunited]

18. Nine-year-old girl washing her dog in her grandma's front yard killed by drive-by shooter.

If anyone wants to say that a downloader of CP images is an enabler of child exploitation, I am simply going to reply that gun proliferation KILLS kids. Kills them dead or horribly maims them.

If the First Amendment doesn't protect kiddie porn, the Second Amendment shouldn't protect gun ownership in the civilian population.

[Laelth]

22. Very interesting argument.

I look forward to seeing how the oh-so-righteous defenders of innocent children wrap their heads around that.

Caveat: I am not defending child porn. I am just sensitive to hypocrites and to those who are quick to judge others.

:dem:

-Laelth

[eShirl]

24. " I am just sensitive to hypocrites and to those who are quick to judge others."

Wow, you must be a walking migraine as a result.

[Laelth]

28. Indeed. On this subject, and on the criminal law in general, DU often makes my head hurt. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[zagging]

26. Firearms are tools used to protect natural and inherent rights

Do you have any natural and inherent right to child porn, as you do self defense?

[sharesunited]

30. Is that what the 2A is about?

Protection of your natural and inherent rights?

Gee, I thought it was all about ensuring the ability of the People to engage in armed rebellion.

Guess I'd better go read it again!

No, the menace to public safety outweighs any purported benefit you care to put forward.

If you think you need a gun to defend yourself against gun wielding criminals, the first cause is always the availability of ANY guns.

[zagging]

33. What did you read the first time?

Seriously, what is "it" that you read the first time that gave you any other notion?

[sharesunited]

34. A well regulated militia.

Not just any trigger lovin' muzzle nuzzler.

[zagging]

37. Can you say...

I cannot say, "Trigger lovin' muzzle nuzzler", three time real fast. I can barely say it once.

[sharesunited]

38. Try grumbling it like I do. n/t

[zagging]

39. I did

But it scared the neighbors. Grumbling, it came out like, "Zweigen loffen mossen nuzzlah!".

[chrisa]

36. The two aren't even related.

So it's just a logical fallacy your saying. Child porn is in itself horrible and useless, while guns serve a legitimate purpose, such as hunting for food.

That's like comparing archery with somebody accidentally killing their friend in an archery accident to buying guns from terrorists, and those terrorists blowing up a building a week later.

[zagging]

19. May he gently suffer the pains of those he victimized.

I hate to be harsh.

[get the red out]

21. I knew a guy that was a pedophile

He dated a friend of mine years ago and I had been to some nice parties at his house. On the outside he was a good natured divorced/single father of two who doted on his kids. When he was arrested for fondling a friend of his teenage son's who was staying over at their house one weekend, everyone that knew him was shocked. And looking back my friend who was seeing him saw signs that things weren't right in their relationship, but she had been married to a physically abusive guy previously and this guy wasn't trying to beat the hell out of her and was kind, or at least he appeared to be.

People with this terrible problem know it is wretched, so they put on the sort of front that could earn an actor an academy award. I was a LOT younger at the time, now I might be able to pick up on signs better, but who knows?

[mullard12ax7]

23. If he can dance and is rich he can go free!

He'll also be admired by millions and be the subject of idol worship. Oops, that's MJ. My bad.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Hundreds of thousands????? That amount to hundreds a day!

How did this guy find time to do ANYTHING besides downloading kiddie porn?

[Philosoraptor]

32. The detective gave up after 50,000 images, guesstimated 300,000

[Philosoraptor]

40. .............

[Philosoraptor]

41. ..............

[etherealtruth]

43. One of my closest friends ....

... married a divorced father of two. He was a seemingly very nice man. Appeared kind, generous and warm. he was a social worker (foster care).

My dear friend (works in IT) was trying to improve the performance of their computer as hubby was off working a "toys for tots" drive and discovered a cache of child pornography on their computer.

I am not sure there are signs. in most cases pedophiles go to great lengths to hide their perversion.

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. Isn't every ISP guilty of the same crime? n/t

[madmusic]

45. If we really want to get rid of child porn, the government should be able to vaccinates your compute

It's a public health issue and criminal, but it's like the Drug War now. Get the users because they feed the dealers. That didn't work though it did balloon the government. The problem is that once someone possesses one image, they face a mandatory five years. They are trapped. Even if they later decide to delete it they could be prosecuted.

If we really want to get rid of it, treat it as a public health issue and permit the government to install a trojan that scan everyone's computer. Call it a vaccination. When done, if it finds any child porn, a pop up warns that if any is found in the future, the person will be "quarantined." The warning would be in exchange for everyone giving up their 4th Amendment rights. Then it will only be necessary to determine which person in the house is infected and contagious on a second infection.

The government could wipe out almost all child porn in the U.S. within a year or so, maybe a lot sooner. Everyone should volunteer DNA tests too to make criminal convictions and exonerations easier, or maybe the government could require it for the same reasons.

[seabeyond]

47. you seem to be the only one suggesting ANYTHING like this... then imply

that is what op might be saying. gotta ask why? you use an extreme to go after op?

it is like someone saying they dont like porn and another saying, why do you want to make porn illegal?

say what????

[madmusic]

48. It would be far less extreme that what we are doing

We erode the Bill of Rights one clause at a time, from the rules of evidence, to the confrontation clause, to the ex post facto clause to the presumption of innocence and more and more. Rather than use a shotgun and operate haphazardly, why not do the operation with laser precision and admit we want to give up some rights to fight crime? At least this way we could preserve our other rights and know exactly what we give up. Quickly solving crimes and quickly excluding the not guilty would help us preserve our other rights because we wouldn't rely on moral panic and pass knee jerk laws.

This proposal is not anywhere near as extreme as what we are doing. Would you agree to give the government the right to scan your computer and take your DNA if it could help solve crimes, convict the guilty, absolve the innocent and preserve our rights?