President Obama is a Christian..

[Peacetrain]

It is part of who he is, and how he speaks.

I find it interesting, that every time the President mentions God, people go ballistic around here.

As if he were supposed to separate himself from what he is, as if it were some kind of burden to bear.

Said same people, rejoice, when the President acknowledges people have many different faiths they draw on, or none at all.

In fact he brought it up again today, that people of all persuasions, race, culture, faith centered, non faith centered, had an important hand in winning the war.

If Obama were a Buddhist, and spoke of meditation centering him for his job, I can almost guarantee that there would be support for him.

If Obama were an Atheist .. how many would come running to his defense if posters started tearing him down because he spoke of David Staume as a good read.

This President acknowledges people along the entire continuum of faith in a way no leader ever has.

[leftstreet]

1. My neighbors are Christians, but all they ever talk about is single payer healthcare

oh, and they rant on a bit about the US spending billions on wars while people here need help

[boston bean]

24. When obama said we are not a christian nation, were are not a jewish nation, we are not a muslim

nation, people thought it meant he understood that religion has no place in politics. Instead he wants to embrace all religion and bring it into politics.

edit to add, i replied in wrong spot, so sorry.

[leftstreet]

26. no problem

You make an excellent point by the way.

Everyone thought he was sorta 'transcending' religion, not planning to bring it into politics.

[Cha]

36. FAIL.

[stray cat]

2. Atheists sometimes speak of their lack of faith and even post on it

[imdjh]

3. Buddhism is metaphysics, Atheism is benign denial, Christianity is mythology. That's why.

[Peacetrain]

5. That is why what?

[imdjh]

17. That's why Buddhism and Atheism get a pass.

And why Christianity doesn't. You can say that you don't believe the same things that the fundies do, but that doesn't sit well on logic because the underlying philosophy and core doctrine is the same. If you are a devout Christian (as opposed to a civic member of a church which happens to be Christian) then you believe that salvation from the Hebrew's god comes through Jesus Christ. At some point, you either have to declare that you believe the Bible or that you don't. You have no rationale basis for picking and choosing which parts to believe or disbelieve because if you believe that Jesus Christ was a god who acted on Earth with magical powers, then there is no reason to disbelieve that Jehovah flooded the earth in punishment and cleansing.

[HamdenRice]

51. Someone doesn't understand Christianity at all!

"underlying philosophy and core doctrine is the same"

No, they are not.

"you either have to declare that you believe the Bible or that you don't. You have no rationale basis for picking and choosing which parts to believe or disbelieve..."

Actually, that's completely wrong. One thing that distinguishes the fundamentalists from the liberal denominations is the extent to which they take at face value the teaching attributed to Jesus, as well as the explications of Paul.

According to these parts of the New Testament, one no longer had to follow the stringent behavioral code of the Old Testament "covenant" and "law," because Jesus was the "new covenant." That's why Christians can eat pork, for example. The same applies to the stringent sexual code of the old covenant.

Most of the behavioral strictures that fundamentalists try to impose on others are in the Old Testament. So the liberals and fundamentalists disagree profoundly about doctrine and philosophy, and there is a logical explanation for why the liberals "don't believe" certain parts of the Bible.

I'm an atheist, and even I understand that.

[SkyDaddy7]

53. Picking & Choosing?

Jesus made it clear he did not come to destroy god's Law but to fufill it...He must return to do so and that has yet to happen. So, if one is truly honest about the Christian doctrine as written then god's Bronze Age Law is still THE LAW!

I think Jesus makes this very clear!



Matthew 5:17-20 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.






The reasons for eating pork, changing the Sabbath or day of worship, and other things came as the religion was adopted by the Roman Empire...And lets just say the earlier followers of Christ did not care much for the Jewish traditions. Like all religions as they spread to different cultures those cultures adjust the religion to fit their wants and needs.

I am not going to say you do not understand Christianity because LETS BE HONEST...WHO DOES?

[imdjh]

59. Actually, I can cherry pick the Bible better than most Episcopalians. n/t

[kestrel91316]

12. So what? Last I heard, we had freedom of religion in this country.

I prefer President Obama's way of talking about faith to Dubya's, which was way foo fundie for me.

[Chulanowa]

16. Buddhism is very much a religion, with a mythology and superstitions

Don't mix it up with New Age Bookstore Buddhism.

[imdjh]

19. Shush.

[Chulanowa]

20. Just letting you know :)

You wouldn't want to be surprised when the lamas stage a panty raid, after all.

[Iggo]

4. That's okay. I like him anyway.

[QC]

6. I am a Christian, and I am suspicious of people, especially politicians,

who want to tell me all the time what good Christians they are. (I felt that way back when Bush couldn't say two words without one of them being "Jesus," so I am consistent.)

As the great Ralph Waldo Emerson famously said, "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

I'm more a fan of the approach of St. Francis, who said that we should preach the Gospel at all times, and use words only when necessary.

[Peacetrain]

7. I am a Christian, UCC.. and I agree...

[QC]

25. I'm glad to know that we agree.

It seems like every used car lot in my town has a fish on their sign, and it offends me to see Jesus used as a mascot this way.

[SmileyRose]

21. I've never heard Obama claim to be a good Christian

only a christian (small c)

[QC]

23. Especially when he is trying to justify his opposition to marriage equality.

It's funny, but his faith doesn't seem to be a major factor in formulating his positions on other issues, but when it comes to marriage equality....

[liberalpress]

52. Well, when Jesus sopke about homosexuality...

...oh, wait, he didn't. Not one word. Jesus only spoke about things that mattered, about things that get in the way of our relationshiop with God and a rich, full, life. Mum on Gays. Not a Peep. H-m-m-m-m. I wonder if this means something?

[EFerrari]

27. Two new to me and great quotations. n/t

[QC]

35. Thanks! n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Absolutely nt

[LWolf]

8. Some of us from any, all, and no faiths,

believe that faith is a private matter, not a public. That faith is not something to put on parade, but something to be, to live, to model.

Some of us find the constant bombardment of religio-speak, especially when it is not backed up by action, to be tiresome at the least and dangerous at the worst. Some of us view public religious propaganda as profane.

Some of us prefer that the faithful walk the walk, and leave the talking to their places of worship. We also notice the rather wide, deep disconnect between talking and walking. It often seems like those who talk the most walk the least, and vice versa.

And some of us want a deep and wide separation of church and state, and we want our elected representatives to honor that by leaving their faith to their personal, not public life.

It's why I don't constantly use bring up my faith in my classroom. My faith may be part of who I am, but I know the difference between my private and public, my personal and my professional, lives and selves.

[Obamanaut]

22. I truly wish I could put words together as nicely as that post. nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. You said it!

The fact that he is so inclusive is wonderful and amazing.

[MineralMan]

10. Christian is not a good descriptive adjective.

It admits of a very, very wide variation in behavior. President Obama is a Christian. So is the evil Reverend Phelps. Thus, saying someone is a Christian says virtually nothing about that person, other than they believe that some deity named Jesus exists, even though no person who lived in that place at that time could have had the name Jesus.

I ignore all such descriptions when having a look at a person. Instead, I rely on his or her actions to inform my opinion.

I expect to be judged in the same way by others. Look to my actions not my opinion about supernatural entities.

[bluestateguy]

11. Did I miss something?

Did some people pick this as their poutrage of the day because he dared to mention God?

[11 Bravo]

14. Yup, it was as predictable as a burrito fart.

The reflexive "Holy shit, they're going to lasso us and drag us to church" crowd showed up right on cue.

[nichomachus]

29. Ah "poutrage"

Good to see the snark committee is working weekends. I thought they had taken some time off.

[Mythsaje]

13. If he were a Buddhist, he'd never have been elected...

Setting that aside, if he mentioned that here, there would still be a certain segment of DU who'd still trash him for it, accusing him of "woo" beliefs, for which they have even less respect than they do Christianity.

I've regularly defended Christians here, despite the fact that I think their religion and all revealed religions, is nonsense. And I think Christianity is worse than most simply because of the additional trouble messianic beliefs can cause.

[bananas]

44. They said the same thing about Catholics until JFK was elected. nt

[BlooInBloo]

15. Huh?

[Political Tiger]

18. There are two types of Christians, the Bush type and the Obama type.

I much more prefer the Obama kind of Christian. The Obama Christian follows the teachings of Christ, where the Bush Christian ignores them. The Obama Christians believes his religion is about love, kindness and tolerance. The Bush Christian believes his religion is about hate, control and intolerance.

As an agnostic, I personally have no use for organized religion, however, I understand that religion is important to many people. I don't mind people talking about their faith as long as they don't use it to preach to me or to oppress me. That's why I don't mind President Obama expressing how his faith has shaped him. I believe he is sincere, and even more important, I know he understands the importance of the separation of church and state....the complete opposite of Bush.

[onehandle]

28. There is some intolerance at DU.

No doubt about it.

[nichomachus]

30. Why is he flaunting his lifestyle? n/t

[ZombieHorde]

31. Um..

If Obama were a Buddhist, and spoke of meditation centering him for his job, I can almost guarantee that there would be support for him.

He is a Christian and there is support for him here on DU so I don't understand your point. I don't understand your OP.

[trotsky]

32. Because if certain Christians can't find SOME kind of oppression in their lives,

their day just isn't complete.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. Which is ironic

Because Jesus taught those who follow him to rejoice when mocked for their faith. Instead they make demands for what they call respect, which is to be directed not at their faith, but toward themselves. As usual, they do the opposite of what they were taught to do. They never even note the irony of that fact.

[Bobbie Jo]

33. K&R

[datasuspect]

34. what is the christian justification for war according to the teachings of Christ?

.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. Yup. nt

[burning rain]

39. If he were a Buddhist or an atheist he surely wouldn't be president.

I doubt anyone not a professed Christian or Jew could get elected to that office. I don't begrudge Obama using Biblical refs and tossing in a bit of theology here and there, as long as it appeals to reason as well: the Bible is the only book with which many Americans have any familiarity; and church culture, such as it is, is about all the culture they have other than the teevee. You have to appeal to people at their level. Besides, Christians, being tribal, as religious people are, want their leader to continually show allegiance to the tribe. Doesn't really matter what you believe so long as they have your loyalty.

[katandmoon]

40. He is such a consummate and polished politician, I don't believe he is really all that Christian

At all. His convictions seem to be very flexible and he certainly doesn't seem to feel compelled to keep his word any longer than it takes to utter them. When it comes to religion, Obama knows more people consider themselves Christian than anything else, so he does what it takes to appeal to them.

[Rob H.]

41. "If Obama were an Atheist...

how many would come running to his defense if posters started tearing him down because he spoke of David Staume as a good read he would never have been elected."

Fixed.

Atheists are one of the most distrusted minorities in America and any candidate who identifies him- or herself as such doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell (no pun intended) of even getting nominated for POTUS, much less winning a presidential election. I'm an atheist and its illegal for me to hold elective office here in Tennessee. The state's constitution expressly forbids it!

And think about how the right wing did its best to scare the shit out of its base by claiming that Obama was a closet Muslim despite mountains of evidence to the contrary--they really would've had a field day if Obama had been an admitted atheist.

[readmoreoften]

42. +1.

Thanks for keepin it real.

[pepperbear]

43. and one of the first to mention "non-believers" when describing Americans in his inaugural speech.

[SidDithers]

46. That's the one he gave right after Rick Warren gave the invocation...

right?

Sid

[Bluenorthwest]

56. While the actual or fictional Jesus taught

never, ever to pray in public. He said only hypocrites do so. Yet they demanded a public Warren prayer to 'honor' Jesus. Hilarious, really.

[Skittles]

45. KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS

IS THAT SO FUCKING HARD?

[SidDithers]

47. Apparently, yes...nt

Sid

[Toasterlad]

48. Since He's Using His Religion to Discriminate Against a Significant Portion of the Populace

I'd say it's fair game.

[Mushroom]

49. I recall reading

about a warring country which persecuted its people and took their money to support the Church that helped formulate more oppressive policy. Every four years, its people vote for the best Christian man who would best govern the bridge between church and state. WTH was the name of that country... Oh well, it'll come to me when I'm in the shower.

"A Bridge Too Far: Vatican Ambassador Nominee Builds Wrong Edifice"

http://blog.au.org/2009/05/29/a-bridge-too-far-vatican-ambassador-nominee-builds-wrong-edifice/

:patriot:

[ProgressIn2008]

50. I'm way over politicians doing the Jeebus dance for cheap political gain. Keep it to yourself

at least, if you believe in hairy sky gods. Don't bring it into your public role as a sanctimonious gambit.

[H2O Man]

54. One of my favorite stories

from Muhammad Ali's wonderful book, "The Soul of a Butterfly," describes his attending an interfaith meeting led by the Dalai Lama in 2003. At this conference, the Dalai Lama noted his belief that "all religions have the same potential and capacity to serve humanity." Ali wrote that he recognizes that there are many paths up the mountain, and that while he is on the path of Islam, he is connected to everyone else, no matter what path they are on.

Muhammad Ali, the Dalai Lama, and Barack Obama are human beings, each with their own unique set of strengths and weaknesses. Yet, they represent much of the best in humanity, and are trying to use their public positions to advance the cause of a cooperative effort to serve humanity. That they are imperfect human beings dealing in an imperfect system makes it relatively easy to take cheap pot-shots at each of them.

In the context of electoral politics -- which is the realm of Obama -- he has no option other than dealing in the US federal government. This includes three branches: the executive, the legislative, and the judicial. No matter what any one of us wishes, or believes should be, the simple fact is that if we take off the rose-colored glasses, both the executive and legislative branches are dominated by citizens with religious belief systems. The segment of the population that does not subscribe to any religious beliefs has far more political power in the judicial branch, in that people can and do access the federal court system with cases that are intended to strengthen the rights found in Amendment 1. But in terms of electing politicians to office, the non-religious have never been viewed as, or behaved as, a voting block. Hence, politicians do not tend to invest time or resources in attempting to appeal to them. It is worth noting that President Obama is the most high-profile politician who has frequently mentioned the non-religious in his speeches.

Despite differences in the manner in which individuals on the liberal democratic/ progressive left identify themselves in terms of "religion/spirituality," the majority of us tend to share some common values. I suspect that rather than allowing labels to separate us in the context of electoral politics, we would benefit the most from concentrating on the issues that we share common values and goals on, rather than focusing on the things that divide us.

[mmonk]

57. I am too but I don't weave it into conversations a whole lot.

Therefore, I note when politicians do it and feel there is a purpose or reason they do it.

[Bluenorthwest]

58. According to Obama

It is his religion that demands that he discriminate against millions of Americans. It is Obama who uses 'faith' to explain his intolerance of minorities he does not like. It is Obama who has politicized his religion, making it open for political discussions.
He takes a verse from St Paul and uses it as a bludgeon to bash the groups he dislikes, while ignoring dozens of verses from St Paul that would affect his or his wife's behavior. Cherry picking hypocrisy is not the same as 'being a Christian.' It just is not. It is having a political philosophy that one calls 'Christianity' and that is more like blasphemy than faith.
From the OP, I love the line about his 'faith' being a part of him, who he is. That is the exact same thing John Edwards said to explain his bigotry too. While he was having a complex and ongoing affair outside of his 'sacrament of marriage' and while he was bearing false witness about that sexual relationship outside the Sacartment, and while he was getting his wife to sell that lie along with him. Not only was he lying about himself, he was lying about GLBT people to enhance his own standing. He's a Christian, it is a part of him, is is who he is. Except when it is not who he is. It is just amazing that anyone would think that after the dozens of hypocrites declaring their faith in exactly that manner, for exactly those ends, that anyone would do anything but laugh at them. One man, one woman, and the other woman, and her baby, and the wife's kids, and so on and so on...yet they stand there declaring superiority on the basis of 'faith'.
The deal is this. Faith that needs words to show itself is fake. It is the fruit it bears that names the tree.