I agree with the The Blue State Bandit _ I do not want to see people being raped

[malaise]

I do not want to see any more photos - I want a Special Prosecutor.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/29/736538/-A-Taste-for-Gratuitous-Violence:-Do-We-Have-To-See-it-All
<snip>
Since 2004, the world has known the dirty little (not so little) secret of the Bush regime's torture programs. We were shown horrible and humiliating pictures. Naked men stacked like cords of lumber, cowering before froth-mouthed K-9's, and the infamous hooded man, seemingly wired to an electrical circuit. These pictures shocked the world.

Since that day - when the United States lost it's moral standing following the release of the original Abu-Ghraib photos - we have lost more military men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan than civilians lost on 9/11. Most of those lost since the torture revelations died at the hands of militants and suicide bombers who sat on the fences till they saw those pictures.

Since that day, we watched the Bush administration slowly spiral into the gutter of world opinion, and drag America down with them. 4 years later, we have witnessed the most dramatic political shift in recent American history.

This is why it's no longer about the pictures, it's about the documents that were used to justify these heinous acts, and the lack of actionable intel that was gained, and the security that was lost, and the true reasons behind the use of torture.

Was Cheney trying to force false confessions about an Iraq/AQ connection? Or about an Iraqi nuclear program? Were they going to use such taped confessions in a coordinated Bush administration/FAUX News domestic propaganda campaign? If unchecked, by us, would the torture campaign have been used domestically against peace activists, bloggers, or any other perceived threat to the power of the "permanent republican majority"?
-----------------
Special Prosecutor time!!!

[librechik]

1. If the acts are so heinous and objectionable we can't look at pictures

Surely somebody should be prosecuted for DOING THE ACTS

If people seeing the pictures can stir up so much outrage that prosecutions happen, then that would be a very good thing, and the victims pictured would thank us.

[DailyGrind51]

2. Not even Limbaugh?

:evilgrin:

[Subdivisions]

3. I don't care to see them either. But something must be done to

find justice. The images can be pixelated and each individual can decide from there if they want to see them.

It's time to bust bushco's ass!

[gratuitous]

4. I paid for them

I don't particularly want to see them, either, but my tax dollars funded these atrocities. I feel like I should exercise at least that much ownership. If I paid people to do this in my name, I need to know why the surviving victims, their friends and families might be angry at me, and I don't feel any need to be shielded from it.

Also, years from now, there will be low-down, scum-sucking fuckheads who will want to deny that the United States ever did anything of the sort to its captives, just like there are low-down, scum-sucking fuckheads who want to deny what the Nazis did to their captives. If the phrase "never again" is supposed to have meaning, it has meaning only insofar as we know what happened in the first place.

And I want a special prosecutor. One who will investigate, develop the evidence, and prosecute the wrong-doers. I want the wrong-doers to have every advantage our system of justice affords them, including the right to counsel, the right to not self-incriminate, the right not to be subject to cruel or unusual punishment, the right to be safe from unreasonable search and seizure except upon a warrant issued with probable cause: all those rights we denied our victims. I want those convicted to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, so that years from now, we know the ones who were convicted were found guilty after as fair a trial as could be managed.

Then I want them locked up.

[Zodiak]

15. You and I are of like mind on this one. n/t

[Psychic Consortium]

5. We must look at the pictures, like the German people after WWII

were forced to look at what they had done.
So it will never be repeated.

[malaise]

7. Yes we must but I don't need to see pictures of the rape

of innocent people and I'm sure those who survived that torture don't want those pictures public either.
The Germans were forced to watch the dead.

[Psychic Consortium]

9. Some Americans will need pictorial proof to face reality.

And some brave victims will go public to prevent
further crimes.

[lunatica]

6. The people who have killed Americans were never fence sitters

But Americans are an invading army who have killed many innocent civilians. Our bombs have destroyed homes and infrastructure and wiped out hundreds of thousands of people. We are occupiers and we are as despised as any occupying army has ever been and would be if they were here. What is it about being invaded, killed and occupied that the Iraqis should like or that would keep them on the fence?

The photos need to be made public because they will take the onus off the soldiers and put it where it belongs. Squarely on the Bush Administration and on Rumsfeld and the rest of the neo-cons, and on Tony Blair too. War atrocities sanctioned and perpetrated by the governments of countries need to be made everyone's business. It will be when we prosecute the criminals who ordered the torture and the killings that the world will forgive the soldiers for doing what they were ordered to do. And it will be then that our soldiers can come home in one psychological piece instead of broken for life.

Hell, I just heard this week on the radio that US military bases are being put on alert because the suicide rates are so high. Here's an article about a base closing down regular duties to concentrate on the rising numbers of suicides:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090529/ts_alt_afp/usmilitaryhealthsuicide_20090529094228


US Army base shuts down after rise in suicides
AFP

US Army base shuts down after rise in suicides AFP/File – The flag-drapped coffin containing the body of one of three soldiers and two medical officers shot dead …
by Dan De Luce Dan De Luce – Fri May 29, 5:41 am ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The commander of Fort Campbell army base in Kentucky has ordered a three-day suspension of regular duties to focus on a spike in suicides among his troops amid concern over a wider trend across the armed services.

The "stand-down" on Friday entered its third day at Fort Campbell, which is home to the famed 101st Airborne Division and has recorded the highest rate of suicide in the army, with at least 11 confirmed or suspected suicides.

Brigadier General Stephen Townsend announced the stand-down to focus attention on the problem after two more soldiers took their lives last week.

"It's bad for soldiers, it's bad for families, bad for your units, bad for this division and our army and our country and it's got to stop now. Suicides on Fort Campbell have to stop now," he told troops.

"Suicide is a permanent solution to what is only a temporary problem," Townsend said.

More...

[malaise]

8. We need a special prosecutor to lock up the perpetrators

and they can show those horrific photos in court when they lock up the men who raped those detainees. I saw all the photos I need to see.

Lock up the war criminals.

[Mike 03]

10. Right: Released, but not to us. They need to go to investigators who can identify the

perpetrators. I WANT TO KNOW THE NAMES of the torturers, though.

The identities of the tortured should remain sealed to the degree possible, especially in the case of minors or victims of sexual crimes.

We can accomplish justice without releasing a deluge of grotesque pornography to the world.

I don't think this that different than how crime scene photographs are handled. We don't need to see the pictures to know that a homicide occurred so long as charges are brought and the circumstances are allowed to be known generally to the public.

[Psychic Consortium]

12. The American people are the last to see the pictures.

Many in the American government have seen them.
Foreign governments as well.
And the people of the Mid East have seen them.

We should see what most others have already seen.

[malaise]

13. We can accomplish justice

without releasing a deluge of grotesque pornography to the world.
------
100% correct.

[EFerrari]

11. Whether I choose to see it or not, the material should be released.

I don't need the government telling me what to look at.

[malaise]

14. Do you think the Iraqis who were raped and survived deserve to have

have these photos released?
How do you think they would feel about the photos of their sons, daughters and wives released across the globe?
Haven't they been tortured enough?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5745417

add link

[EFerrari]

17. There is no need to reveal identity. On the contrary, the photos

of the rapes that have been leaked do not withhold those identities as an official release could. :shrug:

[malaise]

18. I accept Mike 03's compromise

but I don't want to see those pictures

[votingupstart]

20. agreed

censorship will always breed distrust (and it should)

even if there were nothing in the photos (i threw up a little - thinking that) by the act of concealing the information you lend yourself to criticism of concealing involvement

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. I didn't watch the Berg execution and I wouldn't look at these photos but they have to

be made public and YES!!!! A special prosecutor!!!

[spanone]

19. i got a feeling these pictures are so incendiary they felt they couldn't go out