Why I refuse to use the term "pro-life"

[DFW]

Most opponents of abortion rights love to label themselves "pro-life."

When talking to opponents of abortion rights, I find that to be about as accurate
as Bush calling himself a "compassionate conservative," when he was neither.

Ask most "pro-life" advocates if they oppose the death penalty and are vegetarian.
99% (or more) of the ones I talk to say "no" on both counts, and see no connection.
They think the death penalty is just fine, and that killing animals for the sole
purpose of eating them is perfectly normal. To me, that stance does not merit the
label "pro-life."

Do they support war or military conflict, or any kind of conflict that could lead
to physical violence? 99% of the ones I talk to say, "yes, of course." To me, that
stance does not merit the label "pro-life."

I say 99% because I can't say for sure if there wasn't one in out of the many whose
views really WERE pro-life, i.e. that they not only opposed abortion, but
opposed the death penalty and war just as vigorously and were strict vegetarians,
as well as environmental activists.

Call yourself "anti-abortion," and I'll believe you. Call yourself "pro-life" and
I'll ask if your name is Frank Luntz, and take your claim of sincerity just
about as seriously, until you convince me otherwise.

[TwilightZone]

1. I personally like to use pro-live birth.

That's all they really care about. Once the kid is born, screw 'em!

[ejpoeta]

15. when they get their statistics or polls or whatever, i would like them to include

stats on support for welfare and assistance programs. because they don't coincide. people want to force girls to have babies, but not have to pay for them to be born or once they are here.

[TwilightZone]

31. Very true.

They also don't understand that their ridiculous abstinence-only education programs are doing nothing but creating more unwanted pregnancies, likely leading to an *increase* in demand for abortion and more need for welfare and other assistance programs.

Rather ironic, I think.

[snake in the grass]

20. I use pro-forced birth.

n/t

[ismnotwasm]

38. Yup

Forced birth is exactly what it is.

[phantom power]

2. Pro patriarchy.

[Kaleva]

3. the pro-choice label really isn't accurate either

Very few people believe that it ought to be legal for a woman to have an abortion at anytime during the pregnancy and for whatever reason.

[lapislzi]

11. you base that statement on what evidence?

Or maybe I'm just one of those "very few." It's none of my business what a pregnant woman decides in consultation with her doctor. None whatsoever.

In fact, in the earliest stages of pregnancy, a woman really doesn't even need a doctor, except to perform the procedure. Which could probably be performed by a qualified PA.

[Kaleva]

23. From reading the polls

A person may say they are pro-life but when asked about circumstances where the life of the mother is at stake, incest or rape, they are willing to make exceptions. On the other hand, a person who says they are pro-choice may believe that there ought to be restrictions on the procedure after the first trimester.

[CTyankee]

51. That's interesting, because I used to argue for this. Only two states, as I recall, had state laws

that allowed PA's to perform first trimester abortions and their error rate was below that of drs.

This is an area that should be really explored, but I don't know if it can be, except sub rosa, and that's too bad.

[uppityperson]

21. That is what you consider "pro-choice"?Legal abortion any time for any reason?

At least you got the "legal" part right. How about the having the choice between a legal hygienic abortion vs an illegal dirty back alley one?

Is access to legal abortion at any time during a pregnancy and for whatever reason REALLY what you consider we pro-choicers want?

[Kaleva]

26. You presume you speak for all pro-choicers.

Opinions are so varied that using two labels, pro-choice & pro-life is a tad simplistic.

[uppityperson]

27. No, I am asking you to clarify what you mean.

I should have written "is that...?" rather than "that is...?" as I meant it to be a question to you. I am asking you to clarify what you mean.

[Kaleva]

30. some definitions

"PRO-CHOICE: The persons who believe that a woman has a right to determine whether to have an abortion."

http://www.bioscience-bioethics.org/p.htm

pro-choice

"Of, pertaining to, or supportive of a woman's right to choose whether or not to undergo an abortion."

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pro-choice

[QueenOfCalifornia]

36. And you know this because

you are privy to information from which galaxy?

Most people believe that abortion should be legal. Period.

[MellowDem]

45. Only in some cases as it were...

Actually, most Americans believe that abortions should be legal, but with exceptions.

There was a thread on the gallup poll earlier and 538 has a good explanation of it:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/more-about-unbearable-lightness-of.html

[nxylas]

4. There used to be a group called PEACH when I lived in England that fit your definition of pro-life

They were anti-war, pro-animal rights/vegetarianism, anti-death penalty and so on as well as anti-abortion. Don't know if they are still going. (edit: don't ask me what PEACH stood for, because I can't remember, sorry).

[tularetom]

5. I prefer anti choice

These people are not pro anything.

[CrispyQ]

18. And they are anti-choice everything!

They want everyone to live by their values.

To clarify, that would be the values they recite, not the values that they actually live by.

[Hepburn]

47. What tularetom said...n/t

[HopeHoops]

6. "Pro-Life" is simple. From conception to birth: human. After birth: Welfare cheat.

When the asswipes marching around with "MURDERERS!" signs stop bitching about welfare and social programs and actually support giving unwanted and underprivileged children food, housing, and medical care, THEN maybe I'll start to take them seriously.

[ColbertWatcher]

7. Nicely put. k+r, n/t

[jgraz]

8. I understand, but "woman-hating, sex-fearing, religiously insane fucktard" is quite the mouthful.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. If they were truly pro-life

they would live like the Jains, who will not even eat vegetables until they have fallen from the vine, so as not to kill them. They wear gauze masks so as not to accidentally inhale insects.

Of course most of them won't even go to the length of being vegetarian or anti-death penalty. What they are is anti abortion no matter what the reason for that medical procedure.

[NJmaverick]

10. Anti choice or forced birthers are probably far more accurate terms

They like the term pro-life because it automatically frames the issue to their advantage. After all what is the opposite of pro-life?

[zorahopkins]

12. Anti-Woman

I prefer to call them what they really are:

"Anti-Women"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Ummmmm, Killing Animals For The Sole Puprose Of Eating Them IS Perfectly Normal.

And also pretty ridiculous to compare that to the ACTUAL human life they are pro-life for to begin with.

A cow does not a human make.

[Maru Kitteh]

25. Perhaps to most, that is true. However, cow does = alive, and therefore, a life

If a person were really concerned about LIFE, they wouldn't worry themselves into a aneurysm over the destruction of a non-sentient glob of cells while their lips drip with the blood of a perfectly sentient animal.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. Again, Ridiculous Comparison.

It is obvious to anyone with even minimally working brain function that pro-life as it relates to the abortion debate, means human life. Trying to equate lesser animal life with that is a bit ridiculous.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. I'm with you

[niyad]

16. anti-choice or pro-forcxed birthers or pro-women as brood mares works for me

[bullimiami]

17. almost none of them are 'pro life' as virtually none of us are 'pro abortion'

[dorkulon]

It's more like "Fetal Rights"

Toads and cockroaches are alive. The question is when a fetus becomes a "person." Myself, I'd put it at about 12 or 13.

[DinahMoeHum]

19. PRE-Life

n/t

[Mythsaje]

22. In all accuracy, even someone who is all these things, including

a "strict vegetarian," aren't really a hundred percent "pro-life." Plants are alive too. Rarely do they stay that way after you eat them.

[KGodel]

24. Orwell called it "Newspeak"

It seems to be working. A majority in a recent poll labeled themselves "pro-life" even though 70%+ said that they thought abortion should be legal in some or all cases.

George Lakoff fans would call this "framing". I'd call it exploiting stupidity.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. We are all "pro-life,"

save for the chronically suicidal among us.

The proper term for those who would deny a woman the right to decide what she wants to do with her body is:

anti-choice.

[Mme. Defarge]

29. "Choice."

Please. When you need to use a euphemism to talk about something, it means there's something wrong. On the other hand, "choice" seems to very aptly convey a consumerist attitude in the social arena that parallels the laissez-faire capitalism and economic consumerism that's so vigorously and unquestioningly defended by those on the right.

So, I'm ok with referring to myself as anti-abortion because, yes, it's more honest. And for the record, I am against war that is not necessary for self-defense, the death penalty, torture, "recreational" hunting and any form of animal cruelty that goes beyond the humane killing of animals for food, and am trying to consume less meat; I'm for paying taxes to provide a social safety net, and I contribute money to relieve hunger in my community.

You are absolutely on target in pointing out the hypocrisy of those who self-righteously refer to themselves as "pro-life" while holding views that embrace death, but in view of all of the tortured arguments designed to make people feel better about destroying an unborn life, I thought I would to try to even the equation.

[nichomachus]

32. Put me down for pro-life AND pro-choice

I think life is a pretty neat thing and I really support it.

However, "life" is more than just circulation and respiration. People who call themselves "pro-life" usually restrict it to that -- and only in a handful of situations.

Life is all of those things that make our existence go better for us -- a set of interests that, taken together, make things go well.

Physical existence is one of them, but not the only one.

For example, if I told you I could guarantee that you'd live 500 years, would you agree. The only catch is that you would have to live in an isolation chamber. You would have no contact with other human beings. You would eat specially designed nutrient packs that would be prepared for your in a lab. You couldn't listen to music or news (too stressful). Would you now agree?

Of course not -- because there are many things that make up your "life" that are also important to you.

One of the chief things that makes your existence go better is your ability to make the important choices that affect you. Take that away from me -- or you -- and you have significantly affected our lives for the worse.

Without choice, you have no "life."

[REP]

33. I use Pro-LIE

I have yet to meet an anti-abortnoid in real life or on-line who doesn't lie.

[noiretextatique]

34. pro-death

is accurate for most of their positions. when it comes to abortion, it's pretty accurate too because they don't care about the mother's life or the lives of abortion providers.

[KaryninMiami]

35. I prefer Pro-Choice and Anti-Choice.

AND I am pro-choice and pro-life too- we are all PRO-LIFE- every one of us, regardless of how we feel about a women's right to choose- otherwise, we'd all be "pro-death" which is a silly thing to be!

[lunatica]

46. Yours is the best label for both because the issue is about choice itself

It's not about abortion or not. It's about the right to choose. And it can't any more basic than that.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

39. Very true for most abortion opponents, but the caveat is......

"Pro-choice" is just as much an empty rhetorical bumper sticker slogan.

Those who oppose abortion are "anti-abortion." They are not "pro-life." Nor are they "anti-choice." They are "anti-abortion."

On the flip side, those who favor the continued legal right to abortion are "pro-abortion rights." Note they are not "pro-abortion" as most people do not think the act of abortion is necessarily a good thing. Some of them even beleive it to be an evil thing, but a necessary evil. But because they believe it should be a legally available option, "pro-abortion rights" is the best such label.

Here's the kicker. There are other choices than the choice to have an abortion. There are other lives than the life of the fetus.


Now, if only the camps could get themselves away from the bumper sticker mindset where they call each other "pro-life" and "pro-choice", and their opponents "anti-life/pro-abortion" and "anti-choice", there may be a decent chance at dialogue. Until that time period, however, it will just be two sides screaming empty bumper sticker slogans at each other and demonizing each other.

[NV Whino]

40. I saw a nice bumper sticker today

Pro Choice Pro Child.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

41. I do the same thing

I call it anti choice.

I also never call it pro-abortion :eyes:

It's pro-choice - but the freeps on the TV always call it "pro-abortion"

idiots.

[livefreest]

42. and since most who call themselves "pro-life" are evangelicals or staunch catholics,we learned

recently that they favor torture.:crazy: Poll shows support for torture among Southern evangelicals hummmm? doesn't sound like respect for life one would expect from a "pro-life".
Poll: Most Evangelicals and Catholics Condone Torture in Some Instances

[burning rain]

43. Call 'em "birthers."

Or is that term already taken?

[Triana]

44. It's pro-control

...of women, specifically. Once the baby is detached from the woman, they no longer give a rat about it - they only care when it's attached to a woman - it's all about controlling women.

[eppur_se_muova]

48. It's choice that's the issue, not life. They are ANTI-CHOICE.

EVERYONE is pro-life. No one is anti-life (except for a few scattered psychopaths ). Women with unwanted pregnancies are not any less pro-life than anyone who has never been forced to make such a decision.

[waiting for hope]

49. Anti-Choice ...

That's my word for it.

[barbtries]

50. i say i'm pro-life and pro-choice

and anti-abortionists are what they are.

[Wednesdays]

52. K&R

:kick:

[stevietheman]

53. I call them "anti-freedom fetus fetishers". n/t

n/t

[DFW]

54. Careful, there

That "AFFF" could catch on.........