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Michael Parenti: Conspiracy Phobia On The Left

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:22 AM
Original message
Michael Parenti: Conspiracy Phobia On The Left
Given that this topic has been discussed quite a bit here recently, I wanted to highlight Parenti's views on the matter:

"Almost as an article of faith, some individuals believe that conspiracies are either kooky fantasies or unimportant aberrations. To be sure, wacko conspiracy theories do exist. There are people who believe that the United States has been invaded by a secret United Nations army equipped with black helicopters, or that the country is secretly controlled by Jews or gays or feminists or black nationalists or communists or extraterrestrial aliens. But it does not logically follow that all conspiracies are imaginary.

Conspiracy is a legitimate concept in law: the collusion of two or more people pursuing illegal means to effect some illegal or immoral end. People go to jail for committing conspiratorial acts. Conspiracies are a matter of public record, and some are of real political significance. The Watergate break-in was a conspiracy, as was the Watergate cover-up, which led to Nixons downfall. Iran-contra was a conspiracy of immense scope, much of it still uncovered. The savings and loan scandal was described by the Justice Department as a thousand conspiracies of fraud, theft, and bribery, the greatest financial crime in history.

Conspiracy or Coincidence?

Often the term conspiracy is applied dismissively whenever one suggests that people who occupy positions of political and economic power are consciously dedicated to advancing their elite interests. Even when they openly profess their designs, there are those who deny that intent is involved.
In 1994, the officers of the Federal Reserve announced they would pursue monetary policies designed to maintain a high level of unemployment in order to safeguard against overheating the economy. Like any creditor class, they preferred a deflationary course. When an acquaintance of mine mentioned this to friends, he was greeted skeptically, Do you think the Fed bankers are deliberately trying to keep people unemployed? In fact, not only did he think it, it was announced on the financial pages of the press. Still, his friends assumed he was imagining a conspiracy because he ascribed self-interested collusion to powerful people.

At a World Affairs Council meeting in San Francisco, I remarked to a participant that U.S. leaders were pushing hard for the reinstatement of capitalism in the former communist countries. He said, Do you really think they carry it to that level of conscious intent? I pointed out it was not a conjecture on my part. They have repeatedly announced their commitment to seeing that free-market reforms are introduced in Eastern Europe. Their economic aid is channeled almost exclusively into the private sector. The same policy holds for the monies intended for other countries. Thus, as of the end of 1995, more than $4.5 million U.S. aid to Haiti has been put on hold because the Aristide government has failed to make progress on a program to privatize state-owned companies (New York Times 11/25/95).

Those who suffer from conspiracy phobia are fond of saying: Do you actually think theres a group of people sitting around in a room plotting things? For some reason that image is assumed to be so patently absurd as to invite only disclaimers. But where else would people of power get together on park benches or carousels? Indeed, they meet in rooms: corporate boardrooms, Pentagon command rooms, at the Bohemian Grove, in the choice dining rooms at the best restaurants, resorts, hotels, and estates, in the many conference rooms at the White House, the NSA, the CIA, or wherever. And, yes, they consciously plot though they call it planning and strategizing and they do so in great secrecy, often resisting all efforts at public disclosure. No one confabulates and plans more than political and corporate elites and their hired specialists. To make the world safe for those who own it, politically active elements of the owning class have created a national security state that expends billions of dollars and enlists the efforts of vast numbers of people.

Yet there are individuals who ask with patronising, incredulous smiles, do you really think that the people at the top have secret agendas, are aware of their larger interests, and talk to each other about them? To which I respond, why would they not? This is not to say that every corporate and political elite is actively dedicated to working for the higher circles of power and property. Nor are they infallible or always correct in their assessments and tactics or always immediately aware of how their interests are being affected by new situations. But they are more attuned and more capable of advancing their vast interests than most other social groups.

The alternative is to believe that the powerful and the privileged are somnambulists, who move about oblivious to questions of power and privilege; that they always tell us the truth and have nothing to hide even when they hide so much; that although most of us ordinary people might consciously try to pursue our own interests, wealthy elites do not; that when those at the top employ force and violence around the world it is only for the laudable reasons they profess; that when they arm, train, and finance covert actions in numerous countries, and then fail to acknowledge their role in such deeds, it is because of oversight or forgetfulness or perhaps modesty; and that it is merely a coincidence how the policies of the national security state so consistently serve the interests of the transnational corporations and the capital-accumulation system throughout the world."


http://books.google.com/books?id=XGBrLo4WbJ8C&pg=PA172&...

George Carlin - Who really controls America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGyObuH3WTY
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. "To be sure, wacko conspiracy theories do exist."...
Edited on Mon May-18-09 10:33 AM by SidDithers
The trick is in separating the non-whacko ones from the whacko ones.

Sid

Edit: changed "idenifying" to "separating" to fix wording
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. True. Yet one must be wary of those who seek to relegate any/all to the "X files," so to say
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yep...the need for books to be opened on IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning is equal to
Edited on Mon May-18-09 10:50 AM by blm
lizard people taking over our bodies and forcing some to distractedly blame ponies and rainbows.

"Some say"
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Funny, the want of aligning such varying situations, isn't it?
Why, one could get the feeling that it's indeed quite intentional!

;)
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. The difference is fairly obvious...
For things that have happened, there's actual evidence. For thing that haven't happened, there isn't.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. SHOULD...but, some here think IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning matters aren't connected to
anything happening today. Some even claim they were fully vetted and there was nothing there. Some even think that GHWBush went away in Jan1993 and never influenced a single policy ever again.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. True, that
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
42. I'll go one further: some here actively advocate that the official version of certain events
is ironclad and stands to all independent scrutiny. When in fact, little to no independent scrutiny is/has been allowed.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Which is of course precisely why those types insist that it has, and in abundance
Or they'll scream that since so-and-so concluded with the findings that they personally prefer, that it's completely absurd and unwarranted that any other source weigh in with their questions/analysis.

It often boils down to Source Wars, with CT deniers sourcing "official" outlets that are clearly going to champion non-incriminating views that appeal to the moderate, play it safe crowd that unfortunately represents and appeals to a very large %
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. And let's face it: Joe and Jane America do NOT want to believe that their government
or agents thereof, may have perpetrated some of the worst crimes in history.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Exactly. And the CT deniers realize it and play that card often
Its efficacy lie in that it by and large lets people off the hook from two things they normally avoid:

1) Seriously considering data that doesn't conform to uncritical, emotion/propaganda-based background assumptions

2) Critical thinking ...especially when it's possible that the conclusion reached may figuratively pull the rug out from under their belief system
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captainjack08 Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. And some CT deniers no matter how Kooky the official story just keep using it to deny conspiracies
Edited on Thu May-21-09 12:53 AM by captainjack08
We have just recently re-learned that torturing people causes people to say anything to make the pain stop. Of course most of us were telling the CT deniers this years ago when we saw the Abu Ghraib pics. But since this doesn't fit with the Big Lie that the Media and the CT deniers keeps trying to reprogram into the masses... THE FACT THAT TORTURE IS USED TO FORCE CONFESSIONS... it was conventiently ignored by the media and CT deniers.

Yet the CT deniers use these same tortured confessions to prove their belief that "19 hijackers" were doing the bidding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad... or at least KSM under torture tells us that 9/11 is his baby. This of course conveniently leaves the real criminal Masterminds off the hook so they can continue to jet set around the world in their private jets meeting up to play golf with their Korporate Ko-Konspirators Kolluding to wreck certain world governments.

Edited to CT in the couple places I typed CD. CT = Conspiracy Theory
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. Wacko conspiracies exist, too
Iran-Contra was often compared to the Keystone Cops for their incompetent zaniness.
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able1 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. kooky conspiracies DO happen

How many criminal conspiracies happen on any given day, just in the U.S?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. i personally believe almost all conspiracies are conducted in plain sight...
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Pretty much - and most people prefer to blind themselves to it.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. blanket anti-conspiracy theorists are idiots at best...
...facilitators of evil at worst.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I never have quite understood their brand of logic -
because the concept of lizard people is absurd, OF COURSE the CIA has nothing to do with the Central American drug trade.

Huh?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Those serving the agenda of trivializing crimes of state realize two things:
1) People have incredibly short memories. As author Harlan Ellison once stated, "Nostalgia for Americans is what they had for breakfast."

2) Many people are given to seeking mental shortcuts. Hence if one encounters data that doesn't fit neatly into one's establishment induced background assumptions, they're often times made uncomfortable by that data, and will seek the quickest, easiest way around having to contemplate it.

Hence if the agenda-setters can align some 'far out' sounding nonsense with that data, it serves to coax people toward the desired mindset, which is to, despite obvious and numerous past and ongoing examples to the contrary, foment the idea that the U.S. govt's intentions and actions are basically good, moral and just.

There may be unavoidable, establishment-acceptable "criticisms," such as the supposed "incompetency" of Bushco (who managed to pretty much get away with everything), but the agenda-setting conspiracy deniers always promote a nice, safe This Far, And No Further framework first and foremost.
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. It annoys me that people like to look for any excuse to make fun of conspiracy theorists.
Were all nuts and idiots. Yeah. Because the government and the MSM ALWAYS work in your best interest and they ALWAYS tell you the truth.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I consider it a prejudice. Being gay, I know what prejudice looks like close up.
One need not necessarily agree with my point of view but there are dismissive and condescending attitudes and sometimes outright personal attacks, even here on DU, against those of us who hold the opinion that there are deep questions that have not been answered regarding the events of 9/11 (for example). These attitudes dismiss reasonable questions, investigation and research. Granted, not all questions are valid, not all investigation is thorough and not all research is of equal veracity. Nevertheless, many professionals with backgrounds in architecture, engineering, aviation, physics, theology and the social sciences and even the military itself have, at the very least, called for a new, more thorough and independent investigation. Some of these have brought forward evidence which suggests that what happened on 9/11 was not merely a "terrorist attack" but an operation emanating from within the deep, national security state. It certainly served neocon/MIC/oil interests. This is what people don't want to look at -- the possibility that such things are a) possible and b) able to be kept hidden. What is required is to understand that there is a "public" state and a "deep" state. The latter operating without oversight, without accountability, and mostly hidden from public view -- and that the latter has become increasingly more powerful over the last few decades such that it has become a threat to the existence of the public state itself. See this interview with distinguished author Peter Dale Scott for more:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=582911812182732...
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I understand if people dont agree
But I just HATE it when people associate CT's with 'right wing nutjobs'. Just cause I believe that the government has been lying to us for 50 years and its most likely true that every official story we've been told is bullshit doesnt make me a right wing nutjob! I'm not right wing at all! I consider myself more of a left leaning libertarian nutjob thank you very much!
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. The problem is the use of the word "government".
"Government" is a big thing and what is commonly meant by "government" is what Peter Dale Scott means by "public state". The problem isn't so much the public state which has built in checks and balances but, rather, its shadow which can hide illegal activity under the rubric "state secrets" or "national security." If you watch the video I linked to above, what is being referred to becomes much more clear.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. You've touched upon a crucial social-enabler for directing hostility at "conspiracy theorists"
Edited on Tue May-19-09 06:28 AM by Echo In Light
Absolutely ... since it's so obvious (per language and inflection) that many of who I refer to as the Crusading Conspiracy Deniers are motivated by their unbridled enthusiasm and enjoyment of taunting and ridiculing CTs, who, if we're to take them at their word, honestly do believe that CTs are "delusional/crazy/insane/wingnuts," or at best are ignorant, easily duped, inferior, etc. In short, they enjoy mocking those they actually perceive as being mentally ill, or somehow inferior to themselves.

Could you imagine such attitudes of hatred being allowed to routinely manifest to that degree if the target of choice was a specific ethnicity, or homosexuality, or any other minority? Hell no. But third party supporters and CTs are considered fair game for the haters who specifically seek opportunity to do what they enjoy.

They rarely leave their interaction to the topic(s) at hand, and those that may spiderweb out and away from, but are crucial in understanding the overarching process, and instead prefer to focus on hurling hateful personal attacks against any who question the mainstream, orthodox view, and their self-applied Mr Know It All status.

Language always gives you away, and much of what I've read from that particular category of people literally drips with animosity and condescension toward the individuals labeled as CTs, and not so much the subject matter itself.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
44. Excellent post, actually true for any kind of disagreement, not just against CTs
It can be used as a way to divert discussion of important topics to defense from whatever inanity is thrown at you. Whether it's intentional or not the result is the same, the thread gets hijacked if you allow yourself to get sucked into it. Which I try not to but sometimes I can't help myself.

The interesting thing is you can look at thread postings and spot these kinds of subthreads. If you want to study forum dynamics you can pick them out fairly easily.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
40. I call them "conspiracy smearists."
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Vidal: "Apparently, 'conspiracy stuff' is now shorthand for unspeakable truth."
Gore Vidal claims 'Bush junta' complicit in 9/11
America's most controversial novelist calls for an investigation into whether the Bush administration deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks to happen

Sunday, October 27, 2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/oct/27/books.featu...


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tiny elvis Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Parenti is great
His lectures are the best. I listen to all his stuff I can find. Here's one I just found.
The Assassination of Julius Caesar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IO_Ldn2H4o
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Welcome to DU!
Another Parenti fan very much welcome :hi:
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tiny elvis Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Hi
We almost said the same thing.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It's that great minds thing :) nt
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. recommend -- this is a good description of americans discomfort and strange
adoration for 'the powerful and wealthy' --

'The alternative is to believe that the powerful and the privileged are somnambulists, who move about oblivious to questions of power and privilege; that they always tell us the truth and have nothing to hide even when they hide so much;'

as far back as toqueville americans have reliquished too much into the hands of people with wealth and power.

and the people with wealth and power know it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. I love Parenti. Thanks for reminding me why.
His talks are even better http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/29169 lots more
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EPIC1934 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. What I want to do is force the Founation Funded Left brainwashed to
Edited on Mon May-18-09 06:35 PM by EPIC1934
To read JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and WHy It Matters, then ask them OK what do find in there that is NOT COMPLETELY TIED TO THE OVERALL STRUCTURE OF THE ECONOMY AT THIS CRITICAL TURNING POINT OF THE COLD WAR WHEN WE WERE BEING WWITCHED FROM PRODUCTION TO DEINDUSTRIALIZATION > OIL WEAPONS AND BANKING ECONOMY. The critique of the Cow Catcher Conspiracy chanting Foundation brainwashed Left is that it puts too much emphasis on the individual and not on instituiosns

Nothing could be further from the Truth about JFK and the Unspeakable,, The footnotes in here could blow away 98% of US history Professors at American Universities

PEOPLE YOU HAVE NO ING IDEA WHAT THE RIGHT WAS DOING IN THESE YEARS NO IDEA UNTIL YOU READ THIS BOOK. Thats why Chomsky is so full of Crap. Yes as Gareth Porter said he said lots of Cold War things but only to prevent "his" entire NATIONAL SECURIT BUREACRACY FROM WALKING OUT ON HIM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS!!!! YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE WHAT THE BOYS IN OMAHA WERE DOING DURING CMC!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Parenti ain't Chomsky.
I haven't read JFK and the Unspeakable yet but I do intend to. Have you read Russ Baker's book on JFK, and if so how does it compare?
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. I once heard Parenti talk on this. He has an amazing speaking style -- he's conversational and whoa
he leans over the podium and blasts you. We got blasted with the "PARK BENCHES??? CAROUSELS??!" line. At first, I thought he was furious at us, heh, but I quickly realized that that's just Parenti.

It was magnificent. Never forgotten it. Much respect for the man -- and he's absolutely correct. The silly examples of a thing don't nullify the thing itself. Powerful men have been gathering in places throughout history and most times, we only know afterwards the full extent of what they have plotted, planned and done.

It's a fantastic marketing gimmick to pretend conspiracies don't exist, or are universally kooky, or don't occur among American elites.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Very effective marketing which dissolves when examined rationally.
"It's a fantastic marketing gimmick to pretend conspiracies don't exist, or are universally kooky, or don't occur among American elites."

That's why they had to move rather quickly to ridiculing reason itself. Most people would do anything to avoid ridicule, and if avoiding it means not doing something that takes effort anyway, well, easy peasy. The choice makes itself.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
:kick:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. LOL
It's so obvious that I often wonder how they get away with over and over.

Love Parenti and love your signature line.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
31. incompetent - NOT
Another Parenti fan here, from back in the 80's.

The anti-conspiracy meme that gets me is the incompetency argument. "How could they do (insert conspiracy here), they couldn't even do (insert failure of leadership here)".

A couple of things about this argument. Things can often appear to be the result of incompetence when you incorrectly assign altruistic motives to the actors. When I look at the world that way, I often find myself shaking my head, saying "I just don't get it, it makes no sense, they're idiots!" However, it is extreme folly to underestimate your opponent. They may put an idiot up front, helps with the appearance of incompetence. Or they may indeed be incompetent in those things that they couldn't care less about (fixing poverty, hurricane cleanup) but may be quite competent when working on their real agenda. Or they may be entirely competent, but we're not understanding their objective.

If you put their interests in the equation, instead of our interests, things that previously made little sense can make a whole lotta sense. Usually dollars and sense.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. This quote of yours:
"If you put their interests in the equation, instead of our interests, things that previously made little sense can make a whole lotta sense. Usually dollars and sense."

:thumbsup:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
58. Right--they LIKE IT when the economy is bad for ordinary people
so it's not "incompetent" of them to crash a nation's economy. They do it to force wages down and suppress worker activism.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Parenti's writings were what initially inspired me to go into activism.
He articulates American foreign and domestic policies so clearly, in a conversational tone, even in writing. This idea that not all conspiracies are created equal is key to much of his thought, and oh-so-true. God knows I was called a conspiracy theorist and dismissed on NPR and all other CM outlets during the run-up to the Gulf War when I said Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, but that conspiracy theory turned to conspiracy fact, just like Watergate.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. most excellent! rec #37, nt
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R..
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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
37. Classic Octafish thread on how "conspiracy theory" is a CIA psy-op term:
"CIA memo: Concerning Criticism of the Warren Report" (1967 memo outlining the propaganda campaign to prop up the Warren whitewash):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
46. DUers quick to label others as 'conspiracy theory nuts' join Rep. Dick Cheney who smeared Kerry as a
'conspiracy theory nut' to the press when Kerry began uncovering IranContra.....which pointed to the larger illegal operations that were going on through BCCI....that also led to the discovery of S&L crimes and CIA drugrunning.

IMO, those here who target the open government left demanding nothing more than accountability are manning the frontlines for the revisionist needs of Bush and Cheney, and they are too stupid to realize it or too loyal to complicit Dems to change course.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. That was actually one of the things I admired about Kerry! lol
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. The biggest conspiracy of all
Is the deliberate attempt -- successful it appears -- to blur the line between the "wacko" conspiracy theories and reporting about real or probable conspiracies.

Once that line was blurred, it allowed those with an interest to just start shouting "grassy knoll" "tinfoil hat" or, as one brilliant DUer slandered me with "Welcome aboard the WooWoo Express."

This predilection on the part of a lot of people to put down as "wacko conspiracy" anything that doesn't match the official explanation is perfect cover.

There are, in fact, certain people here whose sole function is to ridicule threads that might come too close to some inconvenient truths. These people show up almost by magic any time certain issues are raised -- and they use their tactics of ridicule, deflection, and disdain to drive the thread into the ground and, in some cases, just get it locked.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yes. They rarely post in the other, various threads, and in a specific one like this...
Re CT - outside of the "dungeon" - they likewise tend to remain quiet ...or at least not nearly as abusive as they normally would be in the "dungeon," for fear of potential motives being apparent to a greater number of posters

- - which in itself is an interesting point: those on the fence, so to speak, re the notion of collusion/conspiracy within the corporate/state nexus, can equally be turned off by the hateful belligerence of some CT naysayers as they can find 'conspiratorial' data uncomfortable and off putting. Hence whenever the subject of CT comes up here in GD, the real haters tend to water down their usual doses of venom and name-calling.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Those that deliberately attempt to blur the lines and then demean ANYONE that doesn't toe their line
are "conspiracy smearists."

Conspiracy smearist: Certain persons here on DU whose sole function is to ridicule threads that might come too close to some inconvenient truths. These people show up almost by magic any time certain issues are raised -- and they use their tactics of ridicule, deflection, and disdain to drive the thread into the ground and, in some cases, just get it locked.

A-fucking-men!

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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. I find those people very useful. They're like pointers that let me know the info is extra important.
"There are, in fact, certain people here whose sole function is to ridicule threads that might come too close to some inconvenient truths. These people show up almost by magic any time certain issues are raised -- and they use their tactics of ridicule, deflection, and disdain to drive the thread into the ground and, in some cases, just get it locked."

If we can keep from getting sucked into their mire and helping get the thread locked, that is. I am very glad most of the moderators delete subthreads (even ones I've contributed to, :spank:) rather than locking whole threads, most of the time.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #45
53. Those same people NEVER show up on the threads outlining the corruption and attaching timelines
to the crimes and the coverups.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Perhaps it's not so easy to ridicule a well sourced outline complete w/ timeline.
Not much opinion in those to toss up strawmen about. They probably want those to sink asap.

But if the threads don't sink I do still see attempts to divert discussion with off-topic subthreads and personal attacks. The uglier the thread the fewer people join in, most people don't like ugly and won't wallow in it for long. Which is the point. I forget the cointelpro term for it, maybe "poisoning the well"?
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
43. conspiracy has become a knee-jerk term.
only because there are so many kooks out there. but there are so many true conspiracies that have happened and are happening to dismiss all conspiracies as "crazy".

one must sort with a fine comb.

The Business Plot was another potentially detrimental conspiracy. the list is endless.

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
47. It has been my understanding that whako conspiracy theories are
Edited on Tue May-19-09 11:43 AM by ooglymoogly
put out to discredit those conspiracy investigations getting to close to the mark. All conspiracy theories outside the "official" propaganda are then also discredited and all are lumped together as whako. It is propaganda 101
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. yep.....you want outstanding matters in BCCI scrutinized you must have been abducted by aliens, too.
Edited on Thu May-21-09 09:30 AM by blm
That's usually a standard of the 'coincidence theorist' crowd.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
57. There are as many conspiracies in real life as there are in the imagination.
Edited on Thu May-21-09 08:42 AM by mmonk
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