So does this mean we DID torture?

[proud2BlibKansan]

If we did NOT torture, then just what is Pelosi *guilty* of concealing?

If she is concealing knowledge of torture, that means Bush lied and we DID torture.

So tell me again why Pelosi is the bad guy here?

If I was a repuke, I would be shutting up about this whole thing. Yesterday.

[Solly Mack]

1. Yes.They are saying Bush tortured

[lapfog_1]

2. Their only hope is to misdirect this

and keep the news cycle on Pelosi.

Because if the truth came out that Dick Cheney ordered IRAQI MILITARY MEMBERS tortured after capture to establish a link between Saddam and OBL, the Justice Department would have no choice but to prosecute him for war crimes.

BTW... Saddam's chief of the secret police, who was tortured, was also a member of the armed forces of Iraq, and therefore protected as a uniformed prisoner of war... no gray area, no "illegal combatant", none of that shit.

There have been a number of threads HERE in DU, started by recent low post count members, making this all about Pelosi and "what did she know and when did she know it". Repuke talking points for today.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. It's all pretty hilarious

The more they freak out about Pelosi, the more it looks like they really do have something to hide.

I am no Pelosi fan but I have to give her credit here for playing this one beautifully.

[BeFree]

4. Good point

He was a 'regular' POW covered under all treaties. Open and shut case of criminal intent and action. Open and shut.

[Kaleko]

5. Yes. Read this article.

Robert Windrem, who covered terrorism for NBC, reports exclusively in The Daily Beast that:

*Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.

*The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.

*Much of the information in the report of the 9/11 Commission was provided through more than 30 sessions of torture of detainees.

More: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/cheneys-role-deepens

[tularetom]

6. Even though Pelosi apparently did not know they were waterboarding

The whole thing is her fault for not assuming they were and ratting them out.

This episode is absolutely the most ridiculous I have witnessed in the entire history of the post raygun republican joke of a party.

I'm not surprised they are pushing this. What I am surprised at is that all members of the press have jumped on this without even considering the implications to the republicans themselves.

"Yes we tortured but Pelosi knew about it and didn't say anything so she's to blame."

It's really hard for me to believe adults would be this stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Yes that's exactly what I am thinking too

:fistbump:

[deacon]

13. I fully agree this is the craziest stunt to date. And as usual the media is failing

miserably in deconstructing whats going on. The guilty party attacking something they support in some hope of making torture right???

Didn't they say we didn't torture in the first place???

Now they openly acknowledge torture and support it and yet they want to make Pelosi the guilty one???



Wacky to the nth power.

[walldude]

7. It was an attempt to get the Dems involved so they would drop the whole thing

Republicans have a problem thinking outside their little partisan box. They figure the Dems will drop the whole thing if they are dragged down too. Problem is they are underestimating the American people, I think the Dems are getting an earful from the people, and are going to have to go ahead with investigations. These latest allegations of torturing to create a link between Iraq and Al-Queada are pretty serious, if evidence keeps becoming public eventually they will have no choice but to prosecute. All their snide comments, lame remarks and self-righteous bullshit aren't going to save them this time.

[me b zola]

9. Wouldn't it be refreshing if a "journalist" would ask this of the goppers

...that come on their shows and blather about Nancy? "So you are conceding that we used torture, that torture is illegal, and that it was ordered by the bush* White House?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Seems pretty simple, doesn't it?

[me b zola]

19. It does and every day Al Gore's book floats through my mind

"The Assault on Reason". So called journalists get away with the shoddy, at best, journalism because Americans have largely lost their ability to reason.

[deacon]

14. Right. There are so many simple and obvious questions that they refuse to ask. Amazing.

[lunatica]

20. Or simply ask them if they're accusing Nancy of covering up torture

"So you're accusing the Speaker of The House of covering up for torture?"

stuttering response, "Uh, there was no torture!"

"Then please tell me what you're accusing her of?"

crickets

Short inteview

[Raine]

11. Yup, sure seems that way

since they are blaming Pelosi for not exposing their crimes.

[EFerrari]

12. Our media is in a dwindling spiral. I used to see papers outside

of nearly every house on my block in the morning. Nearly none now.

If they go belly up, it's karma for all the times they've done stuff like THIS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. I want to feel sad about newspapers dying but I have been so pissed for so long

We had a huge Mothers Day vigil and I was actually shocked when a newspaper reporter showed up to cover it. I don't even bother to send out press releases anymore.

[EFerrari]

17. There's an essay here somewhere about how the newspaper industry

pissed off the people most likely to buy newspapers.

Yesterday, there was a Landay article here quoting Cheney saying torture found the link between AQ and Iraq -- without a hint of skepticism. And that's LANDAY, one of the two McClatchy guys that Bill Moyers celebrated in his documentary about the pre-war coverage? Remember them -- they were the only two reporters that challenged the bullshit that was being printed at the time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5664275

Scott Shane at NYTs used to be another one of my favorite reporters because like Landay and his partner, he was really good about reporting problems with the official story of the day. That's gone now. His last two articles on the Amerithrax case could have been written by the FBI.

McClatchy bought the Miami "We'll Print Anything" Herald a while ago and now posts their goofy stories to the McClatchy site. It's unreal.

I don't know if industry conditions are so bad that even the decent reporters are being affected or what, but our media is a joke right now. There's much better work being done right here at DU than most of the cr@p that winds up in the NYTs, let alone in the WaHo or LATimes.

[ColbertWatcher]

15. The GOP-controlled media is trying to get Pelosi to disclose what she cannot legally disclose.

That is the only reason why this is in the news.

If she even gets close to slipping up, the GOP-controlled media will demand that she be tried and convicted for revealing state secrets.

Distraction Supreme.

[lunatica]

18. It's just the latest tempest in a teacup the MSM rushes to point at

They're like cartoon characters in Bugs Bunny cartoons who get continually outsmarted by Bugs at every turn. They're like Elmer Fudd shooting his foot off again and again.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

21. The illegal use of torture is so yesterday's news.

The real money is trying to frame Pelosi as being the one guilty.

It's the American Media at its finest!

[DatManFromNawlins]

22. Simple

Democrats have latched onto the meme that waterboarding is torture. This was not the public sentiment in 2003/2004 when the wars were still popular.

Republicans have denied the allegation.

So, now Pelosi has been caught red handed, knowing that waterboarding was taking place and doing nothing in a leadership role to curb or stop it from happening.

Therefore:

Democrats: waterboarding = torture

Republicans: waterboarding != torture, but the Democrats believe it is AND Pelosi gave it her okay = Pelosi was fine with torturing people

It effectively puts her in an even WORSE spot than Republicans, who can say they believed in waterboarding but don't believe in torture because they don't equate the two.