The Only Way The Torturers Will Be Held To Justice Is If The People

[tekisui]

demand it. It is not in President Obama's interest to take this fight on. It will damage him politically, nor is it in Holder's interest. Nor is it in Pelosi's or other House Democrats or Senate Democrats.

Unless, the people demand it. If there is not broad and loud support for investigations and indictments, it will out of the headlines and be forgotten. The crimes will be swept under the rug. No one will be held to account and we will suffer the consequences of accepting torture.

The only way the general willfully ignorant public will support investigations is if they are sufficiently disgusted or offended by what was done in our name. Intellectual debates on whether or not 'a few dunks in water' kept us safe will not do it. What is required is our noses to be rubbed in it. We need to see ALL the evidence, ALL of the images. We need to hear the tapes. Every documentation of abuse and torture needs to be paraded on the morning shows and the nightly news.

We need people throwing up in their Weaties before any action will be taken.

We are going to have 'troops in harms way' for more than a decade. It will never be a good time for them. It is already not a good time for them. Blocking the release of pictures because we think they are incapable of doing their jobs is ridiculous.

Blocking the images of torture doesn't protect our soldiers, it protects Dick Cheney, George Bush, Gonzo, Rice, Yoo, Addington, Rumsfeld and others from that criminal administration.

Let the people see the truth and THEN we can force action. As long as the truth is blocked, no justice will come.

[DinahMoeHum]

1. Agreed. This is a festering boil that needs to be lanced. . .

if the body (the nation) is gonna heal and go forward.

:hurts:

[Seldona]

2. I would argue this entire situation is lose/lose.

If we don't release the pictures they get to say, "See, we told you so. Hypocrites. They say one thing, and do another." Nothing good really comes of it, and it festers on, and on, and on, and on.

Or we release the pictures, hold people accountable, and people eventually get the message that we are, at heart, a nation that will NOT tolerate this being done in our names. Even if our system if capable of aberration, it is also capable of self-correction.

There will be a definite inflammation of the middle east, and it will no doubt be rather intense for awhile, but in this case the inflammation is only temporary. We can also prepare. At least something good comes out of it, unless you don't think holding torturers accountable a good thing, or restoring the tarnished image of our nation a worthwhile pursuit.

If it really comes down to lose/lose, aren't we just talking about a matter of degree? What is least painful for us, even to the point of throwing the rule of law out the window? I am not entirely convinced holding back these pictures is the least painful option, particularly in the long run.

What is the end message people will take away, not from our words, but from our actions? That we are a nation that lives by the rule of law and does not support even our leaders if they commit atrocities?

Or that we are a nation that covers up it's sins as best it can when it is in our interest, all the while claiming to be enforcing 'freedom' at the point of a gun?

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Karenina]

3. I have heard Obama tell Americans to PUSH HIM

in the direction they want to go. WOULD that Amis had the sensibilities of the Venezuelans. They protected their imperfect leader as they trusted him doing his best to do right by them. Americans are not likely to offer such immediate, physical support to Obama.

At the moment, Obama is respecting his *generals*. Being a bitch myself, I heard a dog whistle with the "bad apples" reference. Boyfriend knows better. MANY of you know better. It is up to American citizens to slap this shit down and DEMAND prosecution.
Remember him reminding the Banksters that he stood between the and the pitchforks?

Wanna know why I tend to somewhat "trust" the politician Obama? He has a four female immediate family whom he adores and to whom he is steadfast. That basic loyalty extends out, most picturesquely ( :loveya: Jackeens! ) in how babies and children react to him and how he interacts with them. It can"t be faked. Babies and children disliked *dimprince. I've a collection of visual proof as to how much. :rofl: I, for one, ALWAYS TRUSTED the reactions of my young children and by extension, any child's.

Obama could NEVER have ascended to his position without the backing of the Banksters and their assurances to the MIC. He "owes" them. He also "owes" those who elected him. Whose voices will be louder? I MUST SAY that after the Senate DENIED mortgage and credit card relief I expected their chambers to be surrounded by unhappy constituents carrying torches and pitchforks... No such luck, I guess. :shrug:

[slay]

4. Absolutely!

We MUST demand it. K&R.