If this was the post WWII era and Obama was actively trying to cover up the holocaust...

[Smith_3]

... so that the "Communist Enemy" cannot exploit it as a propaganda tool to "demonize the west", would you buy that argument too? :shrug: Or would you follow the more plausible hypothesis that he is covering people's asses.

[WillParkinson]

1. A big difference...

Between torture, killing, mutilation then and now, you know.
:sarcasm:

[cali]

2. how is releasing the "torture memos" covering up?

I disagree with his decision not to release these photos, but there is no evidence that his decision to do so is motivated by a desire to cover up. And of course, the scale and scope of the holocaust and the meticulous documentation of it, made the holocaust virtually impossible to cover up.

[Smith_3]

3. Oh come on. That discussion is much more fun with hyperbole.

;)

[geckosfeet]

4. You have the teams wrong. It was Nazi Germany that hid their deeds

pertaining to the extermination of the Jews and races with inferior genetic material. They hid it because they knew, at it's core, that what they did was a horrific crime against humanity.

I would call Nazi Germany part of the axis - not the west.

I buy the argument that Obama wants to protect the troops - and the US from retaliation. However letting the torture doctrine go unpunished is NOT a wise thing to do. It sets unacceptable precedents.

on edit - added the axis comment.

[Smith_3]

5. Yeah, but after the war, the communists tried to throw nazi germany together with the USA.

The Berlin wall was a "anti-fascistic anti-imperialistic defense wall" for instance. They also tried to frame national socialism as an inevitable consequence of capitalism and so on. It is not far fetched for them to use the holocaust as a propaganda tool against the USA.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

6. They didn't need to try very hard, did they?

American Roots of Nazi Eugenics By Edwin Black

...the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed
master Nordic race didn't originate with Hitler. The
idea was created in the United States, and cultivated
in California, decades before Hitler came to power.
<>
The Harriman railroad fortune paid local charities,
such as the New York Bureau of Industries and
Immigration, to seek out Jewish, Italian and other
immigrants in New York and other crowded cities and
subject them to deportation, trumped up confinement or
forced sterilization.

The Rockefeller Foundation helped found the German
eugenics program and even funded the program that
Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.
<>
The superior species the eugenics movement sought was
populated not merely by tall, strong, talented people.
Eugenicists craved blond, blue-eyed Nordic types. This
group alone, they believed, was fit to inherit the
earth. In the process, the movement intended to
subtract emancipated Negroes, immigrant Asian
laborers, Indians, Hispanics, East Europeans, Jews,
dark-haired hill folk, poor people, the infirm and
really anyone classified outside the gentrified
genetic lines drawn up by American raceologists.

http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

[scheming daemons]

7. VERY bad comparison

6 million killed

vs

A few dozen tortured, a handful killed




I agree that the torture of 2002 and beyond needs to be investigated and prosecuted.... but these kinds of assinine comparisons do NOT help the argument.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

8. Very GOOD comparison

It's the principle that's relevant here.

[cali]

9. no it's not a good comparison

Germany didn't bring its own to justice. it was a defeated power. there are much better comparisons.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

11. Is too!

"Sehr interessant . . . aber dumm!" --Arte "Wolfgang" Johnson

[Smith_3]

16. Well, the Republicans are a defeated power too, sort of.

Unless of course the Democrats cover them. I think if Obama fails to deliver the Republicans the death blow now that they are on the ground, he will suffer the fate of Jimmy Carter.

[kickysnana]

12. How many Iraq's and Afgans dead? A handful? Stop watching Faux News. n/t

[scheming daemons]

15. That's also dreadful... but not a valid comparison

Killed on the battlefield is different than murdered in captivity.

The Nazis killed millions on the battlefield, and 6 million in concentration camps. There is a much different level of evil for those killed in camps versus those killed in battle.

[ShortnFiery]

10. What people don't realize is that Rove, Cheney, et. al. are speaking to the faithful right-wing

throughout this Nation.

THE NEXT TIME that we are hit with an attack and AMERICANS are scared shitless, the GOP will arise "stronger than before" IF we don't investigate and prosecute.

Remember all those CRAZY right-wingers who thought that the joke of the military man killing Pelosi and Reid in an elevator? They will be the 21st Century's equivalent of the Nazi SS.

Mark my words, these techniques will be used ON US if we don't seek justice. :scared:

[leftynyc]

14. You really think

prosecutions will stop the right wing from blaming democrats in the event of another attack? You think prosecutions will stop average Americans from blaming the democrats when fox news has the highest ratings? The two have nothing to do with eachother.

[Captain Hilts]

13. BAD comparison. Irrelevant. nt