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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:07 PM
Original message
Kucinich slams Obama: Healthcare savings 'unconscionable rip-off'
http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/12/kucinich-slams-obama-healthcare-savings-unconscionable-rip-off/

Kucinich slams Obama: Healthcare savings 'unconscionable rip-off'
@ 11:00 am by Michael O'Brien


The Obama administration's plan announced yesterday to save trillions in healthcare costs is an "unconscionable rip-off of the American people," Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) argued Tuesday.

Kucinich slammed the administration's deal, brokered with insurers, labor, healthcare providers, and other parties to save $2 trillion over the next 10 years as another bailout for a major industry.

"This is an unconscionable rip-off of the American people. This is a bailout of the insurance industry," Kucinich, an advocate of a single-payer, government run system said Tuesday on National Public Radio.

"Just like we bailed out the banks, we're bailing out the insurance industries," he argued. "And so I emphatically disagree with the approach that the White House is taking. In the end, it's going to mean more taxpayer dollars going to the insurance industry."

Kucinich lamented that the "savings" touted by the administration are simply a diminished rate of profits for insurance corporations; he believes healthcare is a "basic right" that should be provided for free by the government.

"People should not exist for the healthcare companies, healthcare should exist for us," he said, urging the Obama administration to put a single-payer option on the table while pushing for healthcare reform.

Find the entirety of Kucinich's remarks on NPR's podcast page at link.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. (crickets)
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Tumbleweeds K&R for DK
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. can it with the crickets already- you think no one here cares?? you gave us TWO MINUTES before you
started in with that shit. people care DEEPLY about this. jesus fucking christ- how 'bout a little patience, please!?!?!?
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. "(crickets)" meaning what, exactly?
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Meaning I'm not expecting a lot of support for Kucinich here.
Too subtle for you?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. guess you're wrong -- :)
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. If you call total absence of any kind of context subtle, then yeah, it is too subtle. As far as
Edited on Tue May-12-09 05:54 PM by salguine
Kucinich is concerned, he gets PELNTY of support from me. In fact I can get behind his policy positions with a hell of a lot more enthusiasm than Obama's on issues like the economic bailout and healthcare, for starters.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #49
66. The polls show the American people favor single payer
Obama's plan is a sham. Exactly as Kucinich says.. Health care costs the US double anywhere else.. And now, the obama plan will make US health care cost four times what Denmark pays. Denmark has the highest costs outside the US.. The country collectively is going broke over insurance costs and Obama wants to double them.. Bravo Kucinich. Someone speaks the truth.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
96. Yeah, too bad he didn't get elected. MOOT!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
100. Actually, the fact he wasn't elected is moot to the subject
learn to use the word more properly, and people may even side with you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #96
154. Moot. ?.. Elections are no big deal.
The media goes a long way to 'select,' our president. And we know they are in the hands of interest groups such as the insurance lobby.
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The Hope Mobile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #96
193. Kudos to the people in Ohio who keep electing him!!
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #66
164. Yep...The whole Deal is just another Republican Dog & Pony show.
Step right up Folks ! ...Bend over and we'll shove it right up your....
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
98. plenty
of support from DUers. None in the media, etc. Why is that?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
102. Kucinich speaks for me....
eom
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Single payer is not going to die.
And the people *are* paying attention to this.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. He's right.
This proposal is just health care profiteers promising to steal less from us.

It's a promise they've made (and broken) before.

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
75. K&R Kucinich
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. it is a "pledge" to reduce cost INCREASES by 1.5% a year for 10 years
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/us/politics/12health.html

"If history is a guide, their commitments may not produce the promised savings. Their proposals are vague promising, for example, to reduce both overuse and underuse of health care. None of the proposals are enforceable, and none of the savings are guaranteed. Without such a guarantee, budget rules would normally prevent Congress from using the savings to pay for new initiatives to cover the uninsured. At this point, cost control is little more than a shared aspiration."

I don't know that it's a rip-off, I would say it's just a public relations ploy and in the grand scheme of things means very little. Perhaps that does qualifies as a rip-off.

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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It's a rip off. Count on it.
Voluntary corporate reform is a fucking fairytale. It's a fairytale I've come to expect from Republicans, but I can only conclude that I'm now being told the same fairytale by Democrats too.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I am literally too literal and get caught up in stupid nuances unnecessarily
Rip off is definitely accurate as it's an attempt to make Americans feel like they are getting something when they are literally getting nothing. It's a fraud, a sham, a pretense. It's very disappointing to see President Obama promote this like it has any substance at all. It doesn't.

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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Excellent conclusion.
You expect a certain type of Democrat to behave this way, but Howard Dean?! :wtf:
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. If only more people would put off their Obama-blinders and cut through the bullshit...
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
133. you're absolutely right, it is the obama delusion and it's epidemic. nt
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
132. plagiarism
Edited on Tue May-12-09 10:52 PM by 90-percent
"Voluntary corporate reform is a fucking fairytale"

this has a perfect bumper sticker rhythm to it. I think I will co-opt it.

Thanks

-90% Jimmy

PS - so Big insurance is basically proposing that their costs only go up geometrically instead of exponentially? How big of them!

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
139. It's like Greenspan saying he was shocked
when the banks didn't regulate themselves and got greedy.

No doubt those who support this sham will someday tell us that they were shocked the insurance company didn't police itself better.

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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #139
175. And deregulation lowered out light bills!
Don't forget that one. Kind of hard to believe when your rate goes from 7 cents a kilowatt hour to 17 cents a kilowatt hour.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
142. Just give the people the illusion that something is being done and someone
care about the majority of Americans. It's all smoke and mirrors.
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truthrocks Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
144. YES! I don't anybody in the Whitehouse anymore!
An RN for over 30 yrs! Voted for and donated my hard-earned $$ to his campaign. Obama is in bed with the corrupt Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries. I will fight this to the death.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
199. In another branch of the insurance industry
they use this all the time. Have you seen the ads from companies like Allstate that tell you they will "forgive" your first accident and not raise your rates. That's because they charge the higher rate to begin with. The charge the same rates for you that they used to charge for accident clients. When you don't have claims, they rake in the excess, all while making their clients think they are getting a good deal from their good "friend", the insurance company. At lease one of these fraud companies (I forgot which) has said that if you don't have n accident for a period of time, you will get a rebate. Idiots. You just paid for the rate hike in advance.

Now our leaders seem ready to shill for the insurance companies who are doing us the same favor with health insurance. Of course, this "cooperation" comes with the stipulation that no regulations on their industries be enacted.

See that pointy thing sticking out through your tummy? You've just been screwed from behind.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
67. Ploy is correct.
Did not see the insurance companies put it into a tangible commitment.
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Cronopio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
81. It is a rip-off. It's an attempt to defuse any move to socialized healthcare ...
... just as the political winds are tentatively starting to turn towards socialization.

We've all seen what happens when the companies that create the problems volunteer to solve it. Their incentives haven't changed, so neither will the result.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
194. I'm with you on this. The only thing that concerns me is that it adds to the already
crystallized idea that supporters of single payer are being shut out of the debate. It makes it look like an inside job and there really isn't going to be any debate at all.

We debate here and at Kos, and on sites, but as far as a real national debate goes, it's just a show and a sham.

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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. thank you Dennis k&r
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. He's right
Kucinich may not be the most politic of reps, but he does speak the truth. What the insurance companies offer is a crumb so they can continue eating our lunch.

After this industry has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans in their quest for profit, I do not trust anything they put on the table, ESPECIALLY the first thing they put there.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. I will see DK and raise him: even these supposed "savings" will never happen.
This reduction in growth rate promised by the insurance industry will never materialize.

If this is the "solution" we end up with, we have all been fucked. Sideways.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. tut tut..Let's not criticize the President now.
He's only been in office a few weeks.
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. a few weeks perhaps
but We the People are keeping a close eye on him.

And the polar bear has already lost his battle in this short time sadly.

Much has been done already.

Those first 100 days were more than just 100 days mind you.

:dem:

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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. sarcasm noted.
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HarveyDarkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick for Dennis
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. I never heard DK say "should be provided for free by the government"
K&R for Kucinich.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. (415) 556-4862 Pelosi's office answers live n/t
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
173. And what does the live voice tell you?
Just out of curiosity, what does the live voice tell you? That the Empress shares your concern? That seems to be the standard response of most if not all of them. They should just put it on voice mail.

"The Senator/Congressman/Congresswoman shares your concern. Thank you for calling. Have a nice day."

Followed by "this voice mail box is full" of course. Might help with the deficit. Everyone could let a staffer or two go since they wouldn't have to answer the phones anymore.


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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
60. DK Never did say "For Free". He said For Less than it's costing now but
the article is obviously in error.....or purposefully worded that way in an attempt to discredit the subject.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #60
159. He means free at the point of service n/t
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R!
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jemma Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. The fact that Obama and congress are not pushing for single payer
Underscores who owns them.

I love Dennis; he is the best. I do wish he hadn't pseudo-endorsed Obama at the Dem convention. It was the only reason I voted for Obama, who has never fooled me for a second, and I regret the vote.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. So it's okay to vote for a fraud like Dennis Kucinich, who will say
Edited on Tue May-12-09 05:04 PM by suzie
whatever makes him popular and gives him the chance for a play-like presidential campaign.

But Obama must be held to a different standard because he actually got elected?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Surely you must be kidding, no?
The things Dennis says DON'T make hum popular, but he still keeps saying them, because they need to be said. If you think Dennis is popular for the things he's saying, you haven't been paying attention.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. What does he say that makes him popular???
He gets slammed in the media and here (sometimes) for what he says.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. LOL
you sound utterly ridiculous
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
77. what an ignorant thing to say
it's obvious you have no clue.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
78. kucinich is a fraud?!
you should prolly check your tone.
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
99. ???
I fear you are serious.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
113. How is DK a fraud?
He's one of the most genuine politicians out there who actually gives a damn about the people he represents.

So please explain.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
115. K&R for projection
:P
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #43
130. Dennis has done more for America and the American worker than many ever have...
He stands up for the people in case you have missed it. And for that you call him a fraud?
His voting record is wonderful. His voice speaks for many people and he is a good and caring man.
Time and time again he has stepped forward and spoke out for you and for all of us, even when it was not the popular thing to do. And he has also been correct..time and time again.
There have been a lot of politicians that have lied to you and to all of us..but it has not been Dennis doing that. He has also never promised us one thing but did another.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
131. "Fraud?" Oh, aren't you cute.
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CrawlingChaos Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #43
158. He worked his ass off trying to get Bush impeached...
..and never gave up. Who else can say that?

If he hadn't been shut out of the debates by corporate media, who knows what might have happened. I'd certainly vote for him in a heartbeat.

Fraud my ass.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
177. lol
:eyes:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
192. Oh so much ignorance...
You really don't have a clue, do you?

even if you were trying your best attempt at sarcasm, it failed miserably. Sadly, I do think you believe that crap you just spewed.

Do you read? Do you pay attention or do you like to regurgitate fox news moron talking points?

Rather than try to debate the merits of paying attention to reality, I'm just going to block you.

Why? well, because frankly, I believe that although you are trying hard to be a democrat, I think you really are a republican that has yet to fully cast off the scales of stupidity and talking point idiocy.

I highly suggest, next time, before you spout off such incredible ignorance, you 1) Read. Not just politics, but read anything that is outside your cozy life in hopes of expanding your universe 2) Watch and pay attention to c-span. You will see the fine art of pontification on the part of republicans, blue dog democrats and any other politician that tries hard to keep people off message by spreading toxic propaganda. 3) Turn off fox news. It really shows.

You are now blocked. Not because I don't care for what you said (You have the right to say what you want) but because of your willful ignorance in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That is the single most unattractive thing about the republican party that I have the most disdain for.

tootles, I feel you have a pizza delivery in the future!
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #192
211. Do Kucinich folks really think that it's a good thing for Democratic and progressive
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:01 AM by suzie
causes to call Democrats who don't agree with the cult following of Dennis Kucinich out as Republicans?

I've been a Democrat my whole adult life and undoubtedly way more involved in Democratic causes than you or Dennis Kucinich. My judgment of most politicians is based on having worked for a bunch of them and spent some time on various campaign trails.

Dennis Kucinich is a scold. When I hire a politician by voting, I don't hire someone who likes to excoriate would-be voters based on his own superior morality. I hire someone who will get things done. And Dennis Kucinich is never gonna get anything done other than making speeches and appearing on television. Because other politicians don't like a moralizing scold any better than the general public does.

But perhaps you should read before you spout off such incredible ignorance. Because I also don't vote for politicians who change their minds overnight over such an important issue as women's reproductive rights because their adoring cult followers wouldn't like to hear how anti-woman their stance had been.

If anyone else but the sainted Dennis had changed his thoughts on whether women should have control of their own bodies like BINGO!, when he decided to run his play-like presidential campaign, DUers who so adore him would be screaming to raise the roof.

And FYI, I was involved enough in Democratic politics, rather more than you I expect, to make my judgment of Kucinich based on seeing him scold the audience in person at a Democratic fundraiser.

Oh, and at the time there was a legitimate Democratic candidate for President, Bob Graham, who'd been pro-choice for quite awhile, who'd voted against the Iraq War and who'd actually tried to get his colleagues to also vote against it by getting the NIE declassified.

But then, Bob Graham has the reputation of playing well with others and is a much loved and respected politician, so obviously he couldn't be the choice of those who want to idolize a Dennis Kucinich, whose specialty is in getting nothing done--but telling everyone how important he is in that process of getting nothing done.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
200. I call you out on your bovine fecal matter!
"So it's okay to vote for a fraud like Dennis Kucinich, who will say whatever makes him popular and gives him the chance for a play-like presidential campaign. But Obama must be held to a different standard because he actually got elected?"

They both should be held to the same standard, and Kucinich is NO fraud. He's a real American. Time and again, he speaks for WE THE PEOPLE, and NOT for the corporations.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
203. That standard.
He's either under the thumb of profiters who are robbing us, or else he's too chicken to do the right thing.
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destes Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
88. "regret the vote"
Sounds like "get out the vote", sorta.

The question now is this. What, at last, have we put in the executive office? Either he's the slickest gamester ever or we've got an oval office that betrays us.

If I can't answer that question then the first casualty in the list of campaign promises has been transparency.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #88
166. Would you be happier if McCain and Palin had been elected?
Because that was the only other real choice in the general election.
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destes Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #166
170. Happier?
No, not McCain/Palin.

I don't think McCain even serves the constituency he has. And I don't think he'd be much of a chief executive. He may have, however, given time, stumbled onto one good thing. It may have been single payer health care, real campaign finance reform, cutting defense spending, or something else. It's like the infinite-number-of-monkeys-typewriters-Shakespeare's-sonnets-logic-question. Even a troll like McCain might possibly do one good thing. Even by accident.

But still.......... Do YOU know what keeps Obama from standing squarely on the side of the people who elected him? I HOPE I don't.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #170
189. McCain would have stumbled into single payer over his dead body.
Seriously, what are the chances McCain would have signed a single payer bill even if it would have come to that if he had become President? He would have instead been working to gut Medicare and Medicaid.

Now insofar as Obama standing on the side of people who elected him: I'm strongly in favor of single payer. I voted for Obama. But I'm not the only one who did. And Obama didn't say during his campaign that he would deliver single payer. Kucinich did. I never got a chance to vote for Kucinich because by the time the WV primary came around he had already been defeated in the caucuses that are more like cattle auctions than elections.

We lost presidential support for single payer in the Democratic Primary. Obama is not supporting it now, but he didn't say he would. So it's not fair to see his current behavior as betrayal in this respect.

Currently the best I could have done was to have contacted Senator Rockefeller to ask him to lobby for inclusion of a single payer advocate in yesterday's Finance Committee Meeting. I did and they didn't. I'm bummed about that but I haven't started wishing for a cure that is much worse than the disease could ever be.
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destes Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #189
205. Over all I'd say we're on exactly the same page.
Edited on Wed May-13-09 02:20 PM by destes
And I agree that Obama was the only/best choice the system allowed us. I happily cast my ballot for him as well. But I had the impression he was a populist. Was I the only one?

I just don't get why he doesn't simply look at the polls and accept his mandate before the people turn on him for not acting boldly. If that happens he will go down harder than Carter. And, like Carter, undeservedly so. But HE can really make a change for the better. We need an FDR type of national overhaul NOW. I'm unemployed and impatient.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. I hoped he would turn out to be a populist.
But that was based on hope. I have reflected on what he said during the primary campaign. He is what he advertised himself to be, a left-leaning centrist.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

Personally I wish they would do nothing at all with health care unless we get single payer, and I'm talking Medicare for all without insurance company involvement. The changes they are talking about are ones that benefit the primary villains, the insurance companies. That is the last thing I want to see happen. What folly to make them even more powerful!

But knowing myself, I might simmer down a little to see if there is any good that can come of this for the American people. I am trying not to be bitter, perhaps unsuccessfully, so maybe it won't seems so bad after I've had time to cool off a little. Maybe not.

You remind me of myself, so maybe you are struggling with similar feelings. Sorry you are struggling with unemployment right now.

Peace, Brother. It's still a good idea. :hippie:
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #166
176. There wouldn't have been surprises with Mighty Mouth and Backwoods Barbie...
There has been nothing BUT surprises with Obama and Biden. Instead of change it appears to be the same old, same old. Wall Street over Main Street. Wall Street helps Main Street. It trickles down, you know.

Something does trickle down. But it isn't the money.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
141. I'm sorry Naderites weren't born with brains. n/t
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
190. I'm disappointed in Obama for lying during the campaign. He said that
he was going to listen to ideas from everyone, regardless of ideology. He said his criteria was going to be what works.


We have single payer retirement insurance (social security) single payer health insurance for people 65 and older (medicare) single payer bank deposit insurance (FDIC, Congress just doubled the the amount of the deposit insured)and a country next door that covers all it's citizens with comprehensive health insurance for about half per capita what we currently spend for shitty coverage and for 40 million uninsured.

So refusing a seat at the table for proponents of single payer health insurance is cynical and short sighted.

I'm less concerned with whether Obama favors single payer personally than with the fact a huge chunk of the American public are being shut out of the process. That's not inclusive. That's not listening to anyone who has a good idea. That's letting the insurance industry write their own bill without input from consumers and doctors and nurses, and orderlies. How does that differ from bush?
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
209. Some of you think like idiotic freepers
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newfie11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. what about people that cannot afford it?
What about the deductibles that can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, what about the insurances having the right to decline a treatment that the doctor wants.

If a health care bill that is the same old thing under a new name passes, you can forget about getting anything better for many many years, if ever.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. it`s the eat shit and die health care reform.....
same old shit it`s just in a fancy new wrapper
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. he had the only workable heath care reform plan....
but he was the first one to go....

i`m proud to say i voted for him.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. go DK!!
K&R
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. We need more like him.
Fewer DCCC picks and DLC clones. More progressive congressmen willing to speak the truth and stand up to the industries that have decided they are the power of this nation.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Pro-corporate propaganda says he's kooky & "unelectable," hence that is American "reality."
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. We expect that from them. What we don't expect is for people to still buy it.
But they do.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Yep. And I offer ....the face-palm, via George Bernard Shaw
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
54. How can you not expect the people to buy it? They're sold it 24/7.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
85. True, but people aren't buying as hook line and sinker as they used to.
Hey, you made me cheer myself up!
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #85
95. Eh... you're welcome!
:)
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Dennis is without a dobut my favorite politician
A true man of the people. Yeah too bad they aren't all as awesome as Dennis.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. knr nt
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R for Kucinich.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. He's right.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. "This healthcare debate is one of the biggest frauds that has been
put on the American people and I'm going to explain why..."


2:42 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOB0f3I1AXk


Kucinich on Health Care and Prescription drugs 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOB0f3I1AXk

Kucinich on Kucinich health plan-Brown&Black Forum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWupJvXSegU





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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. thank you! nt
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
91. YW, I wish we had someone in our Party, in a position of power, to
take this to the people.

Nine years later and SP advocates are shut out from discussions.

:(



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tj2001 Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. Insurance companies are pure evil
Them and the banks. The two most hated institutions in America who deserve to be drowned in a bathtub or spa or whatever.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Bloodsucking leeches. Welcome to DU, btw! nt
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
105. legalized theft
we'll insure you but don't make a claim! and if you do, don't expect what you paid for. Or, if you can't afford us, too bad. go crawl off and die somewhere. It's barbaric.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. Don't blame me, I voted for Kucinich.

Go, Dennis! :kick:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #33
84. I wish I could have.
I did in '04, of course.

This time, there were only two left standing 5 months before my primary.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. "...another bailout for a major industry."
More of a totally over-the-top, once in a millenium, "you like me, you really like me" gift.

I'm not a big fan of doctors as I've been treated by some real idiots, but I can't help but think that if they weren't spending 30%-50% of their work-day fighting with the insurance companies to get paid, they'd have more time to learn and practice medicine. Apparently, the majority of doctors agree.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
35. K & R!
Are you listening, Obama?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
:kick:
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. K&R for Dennis
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. Mr President
You should know better. Remember what you said about your mother? Do you still believe these insurance 'pricks" really care about people like your mother or anyone else besides their profits?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. In a better world, that man would be our president.
In this one we don't deserve him.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Ever the Idealist
Yes, rip anything that isn't an immediate implementation of single payer. Almost makes me wish DK had won so I could watch Congress collectivly give him the finger when he tried to push single payer and it went pin wheeling into the void just like most of his policies would.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Single-Payer isn't an "Idealist" stance, it's a Realist one
Good for DK.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #46
160. Beats leading with wussy compromises all to hell
If you know you are going to have to compromise, you'd better lead at least with what you want.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. I couldn't AGREE with Dennis more. Cutting 2 billion in health care, yet at the same time...
Raising the military budget with 9%???

Like I (and Kucinich) have always said: Obama is not a progressive politician.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
55. he is correct - it is a huge ripoff
kudos to Dennis for having the guts to shout it out loud
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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
59. We've been shut up/shut out for too fucking long!
This debate is far from over.

K&R for DK. A true patriot!
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
62. Tell it, Dennis! Obama has already sold us out to the banks...

Next up...

Insurance industry.

Gross.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
63. Once again K nails it...nt kr
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
64. Who?
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. Dennis tells it like it is. Once again. K&R
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. well
:shrug:
k-r
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
69. Dennis always has his finger on the pulse of reality...
This is nothing more than a ruse, a canard worthy of obtuse pugs. I am embarrassed that O is clap trapping this as the best option. The pugs stupidly thought we were stupid...now O is pulling the same crap and thinks he has so much capital he can pull it off.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
70. No shit sherlock...where are all those pom poms now?????? I guess Dennis will be
Edited on Tue May-12-09 06:19 PM by flyarm
the new enemy du jour for pointing out truth now eh???????
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #70
125. Awww, my day is now complete since you weighed in,
with nothing, as usual. :hi:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
71. k&r for Kucinich.
One politician who tells the truth. Health care should NEVER be for profit, how we ever developed such an evil system is beyond logic. We need to kill it, not prop it up.

sw
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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
72. Mr. O'Brien Is Part Of The Problem
Like the rest of the MSM, he trashes the notion of single-payer universal healthcare in not-so-subtle ways...

Sorry, Mike. Healthcare isn't a "basic right". It's a BASIC RIGHT!

:headbang:
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. SAy it Dennis.....If we don't get Single Player now we;ll probably never get it
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
74. Go Dennis!
Always speaking for people, not profits
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
76. DK is soooo right... as usual.
And the health insurance providers need to be OVER, and NOW. They serve no useful purpose, because single-payer would be SO much cheaper. And better.

Now is the perfect time for it. Not doing it now would be just plain stoopid.

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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
79. K&R for Dennis. nt
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
80. he's right nt
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
82. K&R. Rip. Off. nt
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. He's, right, as usual.
I still stand with DK.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
86. How much is this "bailout" going to cost us Dennis?
Oh that's right, it's not going to cost us anything because it was just a photo op and you're just talking shit.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
87. 87th Kick & 99thRec !
Edited on Tue May-12-09 07:10 PM by sce56
I wish I could say that was my Congressmen! Kucinich ROCKS!
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
89. The last thing we need in health care is MORE beancounters deciding whether you need some treatment.
What Obama is touting now is utter bullshit. What it would mean in practice is yet more rationing of health care based on what some accountant at the insurance decides you are allowed to get.

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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
90. K&R
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
92. They steal and steal
then they steal again

this is the problem with our economy! Too many people stealing and getting away with it! And the government using its power to make it so!
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
93. Gotta love Dennis!!
He's always on our side!
:applause:
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hay rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
94. K & R
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
97. And this is why I voted for Kucinich in the primaries.
:)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
103. Thanks Mr. Kucinich!
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
104. Obama had better be stringing them along...
And giving them enough rope to hang themselves, or he is guaranteeing his eviction notice in 2012.

People are sick and tired of being fed bullshit and bankrupted... And it won't matter what letter is behind his name.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
106. This would make sense if this was Obama's plan.
What we have here is the health insurance industry desperately trying to appease the administration in light of the health care reform debate, which is focused on a public option. The thing is there are some people who want to keep there current plans, and holding the insurance companies to any concessions they make will benefit those people.

Campaign For America's Future: Private Health Interests Not To Be Trusted, But Their Gambit Failed



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. Adding this for perspective:

Harry, Louise and Barack

Is this the end for Harry and Louise?

<...>

Six major industry players including Americas Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), a descendant of the lobbying group that spawned Harry and Louise have sent a letter to President Obama sketching out a plan to control health care costs. Whats more, the letter implicitly endorses much of what administration officials have been saying about health economics.

Are there reasons to be suspicious about this gift? You bet and Ill get to that in a bit. But first things first: on the face of it, this is tremendously good news.

<...>

I would strongly urge the Obama administration to hang tough in the bargaining ahead. In particular, AHIP will surely try to use the good will created by its stance on cost control to kill an important part of health reform: giving Americans the choice of buying into a public insurance plan as an alternative to private insurers. The administration should not give in on this point.

But let me not be too negative. The fact that the medical-industrial complex is trying to shape health care reform rather than block it is a tremendously good omen. It looks as if America may finally get what every other advanced country already has: a system that guarantees essential health care to all its citizens.

And serious cost control would change everything, not just for health care, but for Americas fiscal future. As Mr. Orszag has emphasized, rising health care costs are the main reason long-run budget projections look so grim. Slow the rate at which those costs rise, and the future will look far brighter.

I still wont count my health care chickens until theyre hatched. But this is some of the best policy news Ive heard in a long time.




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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #111
123. by Paul Krugman.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #106
161. Alalowing them to do so is allowing them to continue to kill poor sick people
In practice, not by direct intention of course.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
107. I wonder
if we ever get around to universal health care if insurance company lobbyists will be the ones who shape it.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
108. Kucinich is correct
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PeteytehMawnstar Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
109. Thank you Dennis,
I was watching Obama deliver his healthcare comments. The one mentioning the 1.5 percent rising cost trim. I'm not Obama's biggest fan, but this is the first time i was really disappointed/angry with his performance.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
110. The only congressperson with balls. Thanks Kooch.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
112. Can somebody please point me to the details of how Moonbeam McCrazypants....
plans to get Congress to actually PASS single-payer?

Thanks!
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. It'll never happen as long as alleged progressives like you make fun of actual progressives.
You're welcome!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. (chalks up 1 "he has no such details" response)
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #112
122. Or, you know... how this actually amounts to a "bailout"
how much is this going to cost us? Nothing as far as I can see. WTF you talkin bout Dennis?
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #112
136. it starts by speaking out against the obama sell out.
how it ends remains to be seen.

it's really fucking easy to go corporate, just like it's really easy to suck up to our new black centrist president. maybe you'd like to explain how the landslide messiah will maintain any credibility by passing pro-insurance legislation and bailing out banks, not to mention letting bushco off the hook. yeah, kucinich is the crazy one, that's right.

see where this kind of shit gets you in 2012 when you're looking for real progressive support for the second coming. i can't wait.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #136
137. Ah - another obamamessiah person. How cute.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #137
182. you got nothin'. nt
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #136
178. "black centrist president"
Edited on Wed May-13-09 08:49 AM by firedupdem
ha! What does his ethnicity have to do with your complaint? The real issue always manages to sneak out with some posters.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #178
183. that's right, i'm a teabagger. gee, you're good at this.
and, of course, "teabagger" is not a label, right? and your comeback was SO substantive. outstanding!
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #183
184. actually, I just changed it because perhaps that was too strong..
however, you do evidently have an issue with his ethnicity since it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Talk about substance? You have none!
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #184
204. no, it's not evident that i "have an issue" with his ethnicity".
THE issue, not MY issue, is that his ethnicity gives him a lot of undeserved credibility as a progressive. that doesn't fly with me. if he were a centrist who wasn't black he would not be getting the same reception, just as hillary gets cred for her gender. people can be very easily fooled. this is substantive.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #112
143. Kucinichians don't care about changing the world.
They care about beating on their chests to prove how morally superior and more progressive they are than everyone else.

Just like Dennis.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #143
151. there you have it folks
why America will NEVER have the government it deserves
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #151
179. 44-6
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #112
162. Your plan of telling progressives it can't be done has worked so well in the past n/t
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
114. It is disgraceful! Obama is folding time and again to big corps or else he
Edited on Tue May-12-09 08:49 PM by MasonJar
thinks they are his base. We need health care for everyone; we do not need insurance companies. They had their chance and they blew it.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
117. K&R dammit!
:kick:
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
119. Dennis Has The Biggest Balls In Congress
35 articles of impeachment on *, among other things. He is independent, he is left, and a true liberal progressive. Not enough of those around in my opinion. :headbang:
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NikolaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
120. K&R
I don't believe that that $2 trillion is enough. There needs to be single payer and the insurance industry needs to be removed from the process. Dennis is right, again.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
121. K&R
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Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
124. Why is Obama selling his sole and is legacy to Corporate Overlords?
There is so much fundamentally wrong with his approach to providing medical treatment for all when needed, that it becomes impossible to constantly recite the liteny. I did not support, give a small amount of money, promote and vote for Obama so he could give away my tax dollars to insurance companies (not to mention banks). Today the Senate is talking about a tax hike to pay for health care. How about getting insurance companies out of the health care business and get an instant 20 percent or more saving - no need for a tax rise. Where are the conservatives, the tea-baggers on this?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
126. Thank you, Kucinich--!!! And this is yet more admission that capitalism cannot survive . . .
The agenda of capitalism is to move the wealth and resources of the nation from

the many to the few -- and it succeeds mightily!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime--

Neither is capitalism about "competition" -- rather it's about killing the competition!

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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
127. Why is it usually Kucinich that gets it right?
Once again America's Champion speaks truth to power. Thank you Kucinich for caring about the people and putting us first.
Other countries can take care of their people..why cant we? We pay for the best health care on the planet...for other countries. Where is the help for the American people? W
But most of all..where is Congress? Why the hell aren't they ALL screaming for health care for us? Isn't that their job..to do the job we want them to do?
I don't know of a single person that doesn't want good health care that they can afford.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #127
207. It's not Congress' job to look out for you. Their job is to look out for the people...
...who are giving them shitloads of money to preserve their corporate benefits, over the backs of the American people.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
128. k&r. thanks dennis. again. n/t
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
129. Kooch is one of the few good ones.
No sell-out.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
134. somebody's gotta say it:
the messiah has no clothes.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #134
148. Wow - this really brings you obamamessiah people out of the woodwork. Cool.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #148
210. that would be the anti-obama=messiah people. just for accuracy sake. nt
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
135. K & R
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
138. Obama's Massive Failure Of Leadership For All To See
eom
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #138
147. Blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-12-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
140. The patron saint of do-nothing, worthless purists.
What has Kucinich gotten done in Congress about health care?

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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #140
156. what an ignorant post
now go willingly and kiss the ass of your corporate owners. heaven forbid that anyone would be a "purist" and point out exactly what is going on. let us all be ignorant lemmings and go over the cliff with you.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #140
163. You call giving trillions of our money to health insurance shitstains "getting something done"? n/t
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #140
208. You're blaming the wrong person. You ought to blame the people who are *not* interested...
...in giving the people universal health care.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
145. Thanks, DK! /nt
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zeos3 Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
146. K&R
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reprehensor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
149. a "basic right"
sounds about right
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
150. Dennis Kucinich
a lone voice.


Another campaign promise compromised.



I should have given you the $100.00 I gave to Obama.
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Jeep789 Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
152. I supported Kucinich and would have voted for him if he had
still been running precisely because of his health plan. But pretending that Obama has sold out is ridiculous. He NEVER campaigned on Single Payer. In fact, quite the opposite Obama said that although he would like to see Single Payer. he didn't think the time was right.

Should we try to change his mind? Of course.

Should we pretend that he sold us out or lied to us? No, that is just not true.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
153. Somewhere, in an alternate reality, a populace goes with the unexpected
Edited on Wed May-13-09 02:33 AM by truedelphi
And President Kooch allows the middle incomed to "live long and prosper."

Too bad reality won't let that happen here, as reality is shaped by the Corporate Interests.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
155. I agree with Dennis, we need health insurance companies like fish need bicycles
Edited on Wed May-13-09 03:41 AM by diane in sf
or like we need blood sucking leeches.
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livefreest Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
157. let's all march on Washington, DC and call on Pres Obama from the Lincoln Memorial
to implement single-payer health care
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
165. Let's tell 'em what we think from the streets, May 30th
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
167. OK, here is the lesson I have learned from the last election. I compromised for nothing.
I started off supporting Kucinich for the simple reason that I agreed with his take on every single major issue - impeachment, healthcare, war, Rule of Law, etc. He was of course ridiculed and marginalized by the MSM not unlike the obnoxious poster in this thread who refers to him as Moonbeam McCarazypants. In all actuality, he was my perfect candidate.

He dropped out and I supported Edwards due mostly to his populist stances and I loved his combativeness towards entrenched interests. Of course, that all turned out to be a sham and a fraud and I am VERY grateful that he did not succeed or go farther in the primaries. So then, I chose Obama over Hillary although I would have been happy with either but I just decided I wanted someone entirely new and fresh and I agreed with the most part of Obama's positions. I have made a point of posting his own very specific healthcare plan in a couple of threads. It's not single payer, my first choice, but it's not bad and it very definitely has a public option and some good ways of restraining costs while expanding coverage.

Now it is looking to me that I am getting NOTHING for all the reasons I voted for a Democrat. The war goes on, we've bailed out Wall Street, no one is addressing past crimes in office, and now it looks like healthcare reform is being gutted and like Wall Street, the henhouse is being given back to the foxes. So, what did I get for all my compromises? NOTHING.

In the future I won't compromise. I will pick my candidate and stick with them through thick and thin. If they drop out, I will still write their name in, because it will be a vote for my POSITIONS. I don't get anything anyway, so why not give myself the gift of remaining true to my own ideals? At this point, I am cynical and frustrated and full of despair at the actions and inactions of the Party I have voted for every single time without fail since Carter.

Here's to you Dennis Kucinich! I hope you run again and I have the pleasure of voting for you.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
168. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
I hate when that happens. x(
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
169. Kick for Dennis
He is reflecting the will of the people this time, I think.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
171. K and R
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
172. How does he get bailout from this ?
"Just like we bailed out the banks, we're bailing out the insurance industries," he argued. "And so I emphatically disagree with the approach that the White House is taking. In the end, it's going to mean more taxpayer dollars going to the insurance industry."

Kucinich lamented that the "savings" touted by the administration are simply a diminished rate of profits for insurance corporations; he believes healthcare is a "basic right" that should be provided for free by the government.



He is not making sense.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #172
180. Bailing them out in the sense of ensuring their future existence-
when many people would like to see them just disappear. The insurance companies add NO VALUE to the healthcare equasion. They are profit making middlemen who add 20-30% in EXPENSE to our system to cover administration and PROFIT. For comparison, I have read that the admin costs for Medicare are about 3%.

I think this is what Kucinich means.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #180
185. I see
That makes sense though ONLY if there were a reasonable chance that the healthcare legislation was going to eliminate them with a single payer system and this action caused legislators to change their minds.

Kuchinich would be better to make the case as you do - arguing that these concessions are minor. The word "bail out" is not real here.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
174. Thank you, Rep. Kucinich.
:thumbsup:
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
181. Rock On Dennis!
Now it's time for other so called liberals to speak up in a big way. It's not rocket science, anyone with half a brain can see what's going on,

The time is now - burn up the phone lines, jam the emails, take to the streets! Oh, and find a real progressive to take Baucus out in the next primary. His smarmy Frank Burns type comment yesterday chilled me to the bone.


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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
186. Keep going Dennis.
Obama so far has not been afraid to correct himself (unlike someone I remember as President recently who was an avalance of fuck ups.) Keep that wheel squeeking!
Eventually they may yet get the idea.
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emmadoggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
187. K & R. nt
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
188. DK telling it how it is!
A rip-off.........we are plenty used to that and tired of it!
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nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
191. Dennis being Dennis
Nothing wrong with that. I also think Dennis voted against the budget. Nothing wrong with that although if his vote had meant anything it could have been a problem. Dennis is the liberal rebel-rouser of the House and we certainly need a few more of them these days. As for health care I am waiting to see a bill before I jump off a cliff. If there is not a public option then I will jump but meanwhile I have confidence Obama will pull this off and I think Dennis and all the others who are holding his feet to the fire is a good thing.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
195. Thank you, Dennis! Unless we recognize what is happening, the corporatists will surely succeed.


K & R
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rcrush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
196. Kucinich on the house floor.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
197. Thank you, Dennis.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
198. K&R for Kucinich. The man should be president!
He is one of only a few congress critters that actually work for WE THE PEOPLE, and not them, the corporations. Hats off to him, AGAIN!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
201. yep Kucinich is right
single payer only way
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-13-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
202. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-17-09 08:25 PM
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212. Deleted message
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