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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:01 AM
Original message
Something strange is happening in America--
something no virtually no living American has seen as an adult.

People just aren't drinking the Kool Ade any more. The cat's out of the bottle. The genie's out of the bag. There ain't no goin' back now. We have the power, we have the popular will on our side. There's a new game in town, and the politicians had better learn it.

A new poll says 52% want to legalize pot despite a decades-long, intensive propaganda campaign to keep it illegal.

65 or 70% support Obama and/or his supposedly liberal policies, despite a concentrated effort by the M$M media to sink him.

Harry and Louise be damned--57% of Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes in exchange for universal health care.

A large majority would gleefully see the rich start carrying their share of the tax burden.

Everybody, from both parties, is Goddamn sick of seeing bailouts of the corporate criminals who caused the current economic mess with their greed.

Hell, even the teabaggers, if they could figure out exactly what it is they're mad about, would discover that they too are just damned sick of being exploited by the corporate ruling class.


The Republicans and DINOs (who, combined, sadly constitute majorities in both houses of Congress) ignore these signs at their peril. If they manage to thwart the public will on these and a few other hot-button issues, I suspect they are going to find themselves confronting some unwelcome and unexpected turns of events in 2010.

The fact is, the rules of the game seem to be changing. All that corporate lucre will only guarantee your re-election if the public is willing to buy your propaganda message. The poll data I mentioned above indicates to me that this is not necessarily the case any more. People are finding new sources of information, largely online, but elsewhere too. Just as the establishment forces managed to caprute public radio and turn it into a corporate mouthpiece, Amy Goodman appears on a thousand little low-power FM stations across the land. Internet radio, satellite radio--new voices appear everywhere, singing songs the corporations don't want you to hear.

Since the beginning of the Republic, with a few slips (such as in the period between 1932 and the end of the War), the rich have controlled public opinion. "America is a center-right country," they screeched.

Well, despite the best efforts of the propagandists, the public doesn't seem to be falling for it any more. The majority is discovering itself. That is to say, we are becoming aware of the fact that we are indeed the majority. There is perhaps nothing more powerful on the political scene that a populism that has suddenly discovered its own popularity.



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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, it happened after Johnson and Nixon, believe you me. nt
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yup, Good Post, New Game Indeed! ALL HAIL AL GORE!!!
Inventor of the intertubes! :evilgrin:

Seriously though, I don't think "they" counted on massive, profound effect of the internet. It was not on their radar and they weren't prepared for it. And I think without it, we'd be in a very different situation right now.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. At one time, the Internet belonged to the Military
So, why did they give it to the public? It was designed from the beginning, as a means of Intelligence gathering and collaboration. Monitoring snail mail was just too labor intensive. Now, here was something you could filter through a Supercomputer and extract potential intelligence.

It just got away from them. They still gather intelligence, but the sheer volume is overwhelming.

The real bad guys know better than to use the Internet for transmitting sensitive information. They us couriers that hand-carry encrypted messages, just like in the old days.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Volume is not as much of a problem as one might be led to believe.
Volume is not a problem...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narus
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Doesn't it sort of remind you of LSD?
"Here, this oughta fix their sorry asses. Let's try it out on some dumb college kids. HEY! HEY! They LIKE it. Hey, Mikey..."
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Years ago, I saw an interview with Tim Leary.
His refrain was computers, like how they were going to be the next 'acid'.

I thought he was an insane burnout at the time.

Now I know he was fucking right.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I swear, I never doubted Dr. Leary once.
(Well, all right. Maybe on a couple of things. But I always saw him as a positive force in the universe.)
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Earth Bound Misfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
145. Heh n/t
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. Yes,and Peggy Noonan doesn't like it...
she was having an argument with Arianna Huffington this morning on Morning Joe and she is so angry about it she wanted to jump across the table at Arianna this morning.

I was cracking up she tried to deflect her anger but we saw it Peggy, as you turned to your little buddie Willie.

O'Rielly is so upset with us too that he posted a video on the internets to tell us a thing or two. I don't have the link but I have been laughing for days at these silly people..
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. What is 'it'? The pot legalization? The poll results? People angry? ????
I don't want Joe, but I'm curious what Mz Noonan was angry about.
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clarence swinney Donating Member (673 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
142. PEGGY NOONAN READ THIS
Comparing Democrats hero-CLINTONversus Republicans hero--REAGAN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.JOBSgrew by 43% more under Clinton.
2.GDP---grew by 57% more under Clinton.
3.DOWgrew by 700% more under Clinton..
4.NASDAQ-grew by 18 times as much under Clinton.
5.SPENDING--grew by 28% under Clinton---80% under Reagan.
6.DEBTgrew by 43% under Clinton187% under Reagan.
7. DEFICITSClinton got a large surplus--grew by 112% under Reagan.
8.NATIONAL INCOMEgrew by100% more under Clinton.
9.PERSONAL INCOMEGrew by 110% more under Clinton.
10. DEFENSE BUDGETED-Clinton -2311BReagan-2062B (current $)
11.UNEMPLOYMENTAVGClinton 5.2%--Reagan 7.6%
(I admit averaging averages can be dumb. I dumb.)
SOURCESBureau of Labor Statistics (www.BLS.Gov)--Economic Policy Institute (EPI.org)Global & World Almanacs from 1980 to 2003 (annual issues)
www.the-hamster.com (chart taken from NY Times)
National Archives History on Presidents. www.nara.gov
LA Times 10-11-00 on Market--www.Find articles.com
Federal Budget.Com 2009

A vote for a Conservative is a vote for Less Success.
A vote to reduce the Standard of Living for all Americans.
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Save Troy Davis Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. Save Troy Davis
May 19th
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #91
108. I know this story. What's May 19th?
Edited on Fri May-08-09 10:54 PM by Iris
An appeal or an execution date?

(Btw sub threads are prohibited here, but there is a GA forum, which might serve your purpose better.)

Here's the GA forum - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=146
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
118. yes, absolutely
the internet has changed many a life. it's hard for me to imagine life without it now.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. What's the percentage shopping at Walmart?
Walmart is one of the few retailers who's business is increasing.

Walmart = low prices = low wages = well.. you know the rest.




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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Walmart on universal health care
"Wal-Mart is committed to high quality, affordable and accessible health care. But our current system hurts America's competitiveness and leaves too many people uninsured," Wal-Mart CEO Lee Scott said during the conference.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/07/news/companies/walmart_healthcare/index.htm

We can't kill Walmart, and millions of average Americans not only shop there, but own stock in the company. Walmart can be a force of good or evil, but the corporation will NOT do anything which affects its ability to compete. So that means that they can be counted on to do things which will apply to all employers.

national health care? Walmart doesn't care- as long as everyone is paying it
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
87. Why don't we nationalize Walmart? n/t
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
95. Dear God, if their employees are shiftless now, can you imagine?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. People shop at Mall Wart for reasons of economics and convenience.
Target and K-Mart are not much better choices, after all--they are just somewhat less successful at the corporate retail games. And what other choices are there?
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
96. That's the deal here. Where are you going to go?
We have three choices: Walmart, Publix, and Sweetbay. Publix is expensive and I strongly suspect that Publix has a Mormon influence, and Sweetbay just sucks.

Seriously- I can't fault someone for shopping at Walmart. I have done an actual register tape comparison on a week's groceries : same items $80 at Walmart and $100 or more at Publix. I you buy a lot of meat or deli, then the Publix bill would be a lot higher still.

What you get for you $20-$30 extra at Publix is worth it to some people. The clerks are well mannered. They have bag boys, who will take your groceries to the car (my 80 year old mom likes that). The lines move swiftly. The registers are open. The deli is fast. And to be perfectly frank- they have a better class of customer.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #96
111. Publix
has a well known Jewish influence, not Mormon. They are also well known for a diverse workforce, decent pay, and solid benefits, for the types of jobs they offer.

I don't mind paying a couple of extra bucks there, but then, I can afford it. I don't blame folks who shop for low prices, we all need to do what we need to do. We all need to make a bit more for our labor.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #111
137. I never shopped at Walmart...until
I was long-term unemployed. I simply have to cut costs any way I can in order to stay alive until I catch a break instead of another kick in the teeth.

The service people at the Walmart I go to are *always* very nice. I only use the self-checkout if I'm in a desperate hurry and the lines are long...that's been pretty rare.

I felt saddest chatting with the very sweet young man at the hot food counter. He has a degree in culinary arts. I'll bet he *never* dreamed of being a "chef at Walmart" back in his school days...:(
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #96
119. safeway
that's the mormon connection.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #96
125. They offer U wal mart and give you smaller wages. Get smart.It's decreased wages that force you into
Wal-Mart.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Don't you know...we keep our slaves in China now making Walmart products
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #126
127. They outrsource jobs to make American products and sell 'em back to themselves
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. Pay Chinese slave wages, sell back for big profit and pay themselves in China...
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #128
129. pocket the profit in off shore accounts as 'foreign' profits to avoid paying taxes on it
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. then sell it cheap at Walmart to U who make next to nothing here, can afford to buy it
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #130
131. Make it in China for $10, buy it back in US for $90 which goes to their China corp, then
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #131
132. Sell it to U at WM for $10.Put $90 in off shore account. Pay taxes on $10 here.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #132
133. While U are unemployed or working for low wages at WM are glad you can afford to buy it.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #133
134. If you're not pissed off yet at these greedy bastards avoiding paying taxes and outsourcing jobs
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #134
135. Then you're a Palin supporter saying "in what respect Charlie"
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
114. In the rural county where I live, you can either travel
South to the big metro area, or shop WalMart.

They drove all the mom and pops away. Other choice is the thrift stores, or shopping online which suits me fine.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
85. Wal-Mart shoppers
include myself. They ran the competition out of business in the rural are where I live and it is over 60 miles to other shopping.
The meaning of the percentage shopping there is a bit more complicated than one might suppose.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #85
100. I know some limousine liberal purists who wouldn't be caught dead
in Mall Wart. Great. Bully for them. As for me, given a reasonable choice, I'd generally go elsewhere, but I won't add 20 miles RT to do it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #100
109. I am lucky to be in a city where they have not driven
everybody else out of bidness, and not for lack of trying either

So I count my blessings, I have a choice... though they are not that much better at times
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #85
149. Same here.
I'm in rural Texas and have to drive 60 miles one way to a Target or other general store.

In any case, I have to drive at least 15 miles one way to get any groceries like organic milk.
I had to go to Houston to get protein powder to make milkshakes. That's 140 miles.

I can drive 20 miles one way to a Kroger, or 15 the other way to an HEB for groceries.

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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
4. More people may be aware, but we still probably can't get our demands because we're being
countered by big corporations and bigger dollars.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. First of all this insane labeling of every issue as "liberal" vs. "conservative" must be discarded
It's bigger than that only our media do not realize it.

Very few people fit into these neat little compartments into which we are placed.

Though there has been an effort to smear people and policies with the "liberal" tag, most people are not buying it anymore.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good post, Mr JackPine ... although given that the opposition is deeply entrenched...
It makes me wonder what measures and/or new lows certain right-wing elements within the corporate/state nexus may go to in trying to maintain the ideological grip, and to have things continue on travesty as usual? They're certainly not going to buckle to the will of The People.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. Great post
K & R
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. K & R nt
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. I like a lot of what you said here.
What is so perplexing is how so many members of Congress seem completely clueless of the changing views of their own constituents.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nothing perplexing about it. Congress is VERY in tuned to the concerns of their prime constituents.
The problem is that for most in Congress, their prime constituents are NOT the voters that elected them. They answer to a "higher power."

Of the corporation, for the corporation and by the corporation.:kick:

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. c'mon, show a little faith! we'll be drinking the next new improved flavor of kool-aid soon enough.
the republicans are busily planting the seeds for the next great fig leaf to cover their usual steaming pile with.

we've got a few years to get something real accomplished, then the mass delusion will eventually return... it always does....
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is such a hopeful thought that it pains me to reply so cynically...
But I don't expect the Corporate world to give up their hold on government so easily.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. So true, yet it's nearly impossible to convince some people that the game has changed
I constantly "debate" folks on non-political boards and they just wont have it. Ron Paul people are the absolute worst, they're everywhere.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. and women are using their majority power

nt
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
140. Um, no. Women don't act as a bloc. nt
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #140
143. of course we do and have and will. even working on several blocs


at a time. though we don't call them blocs. or think of them as 'blocs'.

we 'bloc' for justice and equality world wide.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #143
147. In the US nearly half of all women voted for Prez Bush in '04. nt
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. I ALSO FELT GORE WON THE ELECTION - BUT AMERICAN PEOPLE
JUST DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE OUR COUNTRY WOULD DO SUCH A THING. THE WRONG PERSON GOT TO BE PRESIDENT IN 2000 AND KNOW AMERICANS WOKE UP TO SEE THEY WERE HAD. WE STOOD BY AND LET IT HAPPEN AND WE GOT WHAT WE DESERVED. NOW THE CORRECTION WAS MADE WITH OBAMA. I ALWAY FELT THIS COUNTRY WASN'T A CENTER RIGHT COUNTRY. ITS GOOD TO SEE PEOPLE SUPPORT THIS PRESIDENT. I HOPE THEY KEEP GIVING HIM A CHANCE. I HOPE THE REPUBLICANS WILL BE IN THE WILDERNESS A VERY LONG TIME UNTIL WE GET THIS COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Pre-established PNAC plans were going to implemented no matter what
...that's what Bush/Gore election theft was really about: making sure the right people were in place for the new big shift
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
120. i agree
welcome to DU! :hi:
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think it is actually bad enough right now people are willing to change.
I agree that I see a lot of attitudes shifting now to what have been traditionally viewed as "progressive" positions. I'm not sure how much of it is actually a shift in people's politics and how much is driven by self interest, however.

Those same people that never wanted to talk about Universal Health Care are now facing the reality of no health insurance or being under insured. The reality is starting to claw at them and suddenly, the idea of making health care a right is sounding pretty good to them.

The people that were so happy to buy the McMansions and the Beamers are starting to face the reality that they are over extended and those high paid corporate execs and the bank bailouts are pissing them off. They want a bigger slice of the goodies and the only way they are gonna get it now is if it comes from the same government they wanted to "DOWNSIZE" a decade ago.

As for the "legalize it" folks, well, I honestly think a lot of that is driven by people that grew up watching Mom and Dad slug down a "few" cocktails every night. They know full well how that particular habit can play out and maybe a little pot is just not so bad after all. I also think that as our population has aged more and more of us are looking at the med applications for pot and the idea of being able to "self medicate" is getting to be pretty attractive.

I wish I could actually believe that our world has begun to "progress" to a kinder place, but I just am not buying it. I think a lot of this is driven by self interest and would never have happened had this country not been so very screwed up by previous events.

You have to celebrate the fact that there is any movement at all on the issues, but make no mistake it is not a matter of enlightenment, it is entirely a matter of "what is in it for me."


Laura

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. And the rich and powerful still rule.
Sorry, I'm just in that kind of mood recently.:cry:
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. they're dying off
The people that have supported the "Conservative White Christian Male power structure" for so long are dying off and the younger, more progressive folks are becoming more politically involved. It may be a slow grind toward progress, but it looks like we're once again making headway after being stalled for the last 8 years.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. The problem is, your whole post seems to take it for granted that
Edited on Fri May-08-09 10:53 AM by salguine
our elected representatives give a shit what the people want or care what's best for the country.

I'm 42 years old and have been very politically aware since even before I was able to vote, and in all that time I have never seen anything that would indicate to me that that was the case.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. No, I don't think I'm assuming that. The contrary, in fact.
I think that the past pattern has been to get elected on populist grounds and then do the bidding of the corporations. My point is that, although this approach has always worked in the past, it may not be useful now, because they could have a revolution of one kind or another on their hands. They have always counted on corporate money to get re-elected. If that path to power ceases to work because people aren't falling for the propaganda any more, they will find themselves in real trouble.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
122. Couldn't agree more. And standard protests don't cut it.
Edited on Sat May-09-09 12:45 AM by Marr
Voting alone does not cut it. Our system is designed to empower and protect the wealthy, period. It won't respond to public outrage in and of itself. They don't care what we *think*.

The New Deal came about because of civil unrest. Concessions suddenly became the more acceptable option. Until the populace is ready to start shutting things down with strikes and similar tactics, and to weather the response from police-- nothing will happen. Power only cedes ground when it has to, and then it cedes as little as possible.
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. "singing songs the corporations don't want you to hear."
I don't know about all that now. Where do the internet radio, satellite radio, etc all come from? The sky?

I have a difficult time thinking that corporations give one red dime's ass what you hear, as long as you hear it. The same way that any corporation or government that knows what its doing will let you protest, let you see it, let you hear it. Or the whole "green" thing.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. slowly but surely, the populace is beginning to awake.
although some just plain fucking won't, ever.

BUT, that generation will pass, and the next few generations will turn this shit aorund for good.

it all started with information flow. the more readily available information, the less likely people are to be spoon fed.

it's getting better, slowly albeit, but better nonetheless.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'd agree that many more are at least more wary now due to 8 grim yrs of Bushco
Just have to see how that knowledge translates...
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. i'm anxiuosly awaiting myself. i'm pretty confident we'll advance in the right direction.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. My theory: The internet is killing the GOP
Instant fact-checking has severely weakened the power of their smears.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Imagine how easy it was for Powers That Be to dupe a populace half a decade ago!!!
...and I mean, given the unprecedented, instantaneous access to all sorts of info we now have, it's mind boggling to consider how so many remain susceptible to thought control a la disinformation ... but, w/the internet, you're correct in that I suspect they underestimated by a substantial margin how their recent BIG crimes and cover ups were forced into the mainstream via the web.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
63. I agree.
Edited on Fri May-08-09 03:17 PM by Arugula Latte
They didn't see it coming. Their massive propaganda campaign worked so well for them before people could make a run around the media. It's a different world now. The Republicans sit there and sputter as the curtain is pulled back to reveal the ugly, mean-spirited GOP trolls pulling the levers and pushing the buttons.

I remember in the '90s I was much more susceptible to the spin of the corporate media. I had a lot more faith in "journalism" back then, and it was harder for me to see the agendas behind the stories. But after the 2000 selection -- wow. The scales fell from my eyes instantly. Luckily the Internet was there for me to start getting a "real" education in civics and public affairs.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
31. Yep, the American people are finally beginning to awaken. Just in time to watch "Survivor"
or "American Idol" or "Lost".

I appreciate your sentiment, JR, but I don't see any kind of groundswell that is going to force the Congress and President to answer to the people.

We the sheep are still just bleating. Whether it's on the internet or face-to-face doesn't matter. It's action that counts. Bleating only make the wolves more eager for the kill.

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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. one can be 'awake' and still watch Survivor - really!
nt
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. good point, ensho.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
32. There have been awakenings before, but never so widespread as this
Edited on Fri May-08-09 12:04 PM by GliderGuider
It's not just about politics, and it's not just in America. People all over the world are waking up and wondering WTF has been going in while they've been dutifully dreaming their consumerist dreams. People are wondering what happened to the environment, to the economy, to the oil, to their freedoms, to social justice, to their very souls.

This awakening tried to happen in the late 60s, but the movement never took root for a combination of reasons: the sense of malaise that triggered it was too abstract, the participants were generally too young, the internet hadn't been invented yet and the societies in which it arose were too rich to sustain the anomie that has become our current "Blessed Unrest". Now, as our physical, social and economic situation begins to deteriorate, the conditions are right for the mass awakening we're seeing.

The guardian institutions of our civilization are the corporate, economic, political, legal, religious, educational and media interests that create, disseminate and enforce our culture's core worldview of hierarchy, coercion and perpetual material growth. As a result of the physical, social and economic deterioration that is underway, the guardian institutions have begun to lose their grip. This is allowing other stories to be told -- the narratives of truth are springing up from the grass roots, and finding the occasional patch of open blue sky overhead as opposed to endless concrete, manipulation and lies.

Where will it all end? Who knows, but it sure is a fine time to be alive.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. Yes, I think you read it rightly.
I watched the abortive revolution of the 60's happen. I think it scared the hell out of TPTB, and they've been salting the earth from which it sprang ever since. I also think that one of the reasons pot & especially drugs like acid & 'shrooms are illegal is that they can cause profound shifts and awakenings that the Illuminati do not want to have happen among the sheep.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I also wonder about the strange shift in "drug of choice" in the mid 70's
From pot and acid to coke. I can't help but wonder if that change was helped along a bit? It's much harder to drop out if you have to pay for a coke habit.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Coke doesn't seem to cause the spiritual transformations of the others.
It just gives you more energy to run on the treadmill faster.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Yep.
An expensive drug that makes you able to work harder, vs. a cheap one you can grow yourself that makes you lie around and say things like, "Shit, I never realized THAT before"...
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
80. Very Good Post
this and the OP really resonate for me.

Good ensuing conversation btwn you and Jackpine too....

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
33. That has long been our goal..
and I think the Internet pipes had a lot to do with it. :-)
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't understand why you call it "strange." It is a result of a lot of work
Edited on Fri May-08-09 11:55 AM by Beam Me Up
on the part of untold numbers of people working equally untold numbers of hours in direct opposition to corporate=government control of information. Look at how many people VOLUNTARILY spend hours every day reading and posting on this one forum alone. Some of us have been doing this for many years. We're educating ourselves and one another, sharing and vetting information OUTSIDE THE MAIN STREAM. There may be a few among us who are paid to observe or disrupt or disinform in some way but they are a small minority and have to watch their step.

The long-entrenched dominant information power structure was hierarchical. It has always had counter currents (the many alternative news papers that were published during the Vietnam war, for example) but the information technology we have is (currently at least) antithetical to hierarchical control. The corporate owned media structures still have dominance, which is why we refer to them as "main stream," but that dominance is being eroded by people who are FED UP with these hierarchical systems and their vested interests. Some of us have begun to create an entirely new "map" of our political landscape. As tularetom in post #5 up thread states, "this insane labeling of every issue as "liberal" vs. "conservative" must be discarded" -- or perhaps redefined. In your own thread you are doing so, adopting the newer application of "populism," as opposed to the "elitism" of hierarchical, top down, control.

For years now we've been working at "becoming the media". New technology has allowed us to do this. We now have the ability to share with hundreds, thousands of people, information, ideas, opinions outside the dominant structures of power. Why do we do this? Why do we spend hours every day reading and writing to one another and then taking what we've learned and sharing it with our email lists, our friends in 'real space' and taking it with us into the market place and the polling place? People have begun to understand that information is power and that the control of information is antithetical to democratic principals. We've come to understand that many things are antithetical to democratic principals. For example, corporate charters are based on the necessity of turning a profit -- and this focus on profit often exists in direct opposition to human concerns.

WE, on the other hand, are human beings. WE are concerned about the welfare of ourselves, our families, our communities and our society at large. WE are concerned about the integrity and health of all those things, including the natural and social environment within which all these things exist. WE have even begun to understand what economics and money and wealth and power actually are, how they are manipulated, usually at OUR expense -- and not only in the financial sphere. WE have begun to understand that having healthy bodies, healthy families, healthy communities, healthy societies -- and, ultimately, a healthy global community -- DEMANDS a completely different understanding of fundamental principals, especially economic principals. So long as ethics and morality -- which really mean concern for human welfare, our own and that of everyone else -- are kept separate from economic concerns, we will have corporations who insure that they have the "freedom" to pollute the environment with toxic chemicals, pollute the market with toxic products, pollute the airwaves and information streams with toxic, inaccurate, misleading, distorted and manipulative information. In short, have the ability to pass on to the public sphere the COSTS of "doing business" in order to disguise the reality that there is profit only so long as the human/social/environmental costs are NOT included in the spread sheet.

No, we're not there yet but, indeed, something is happening. Some of us have a clue, others do not. Those of us who have a clue still have a lot to learn because our new "map" has to include deeper dimensions. This can't be looked at and properly understood as ONLY politics as usual. If I'm right, we are in the process of redefining what politics is.

edit formatting





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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Very well said.
We're seeing a global expression of "We, the people", facilitated in no small measure by the flat, distributed architecture of the Internet. I wonder, if TPTB had been able to see sniff the significance of that architecture, would it have been allowed to proceed...
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I believe there are many reasons why it has been allowed to proceed
Edited on Fri May-08-09 12:46 PM by Beam Me Up
One is purely "economic" in the "old school" sense. It is a new way of doing business. However, another is "intelligence" gathering. Our communications are being monitored. Everything. What we say (which pretty much reflects what we think), where our interests are, what products we purchase, so on and so forth. This is a valuable asset to them. My hope is that it is also "corrosive" asset. Even within intelligence gathering agencies, information is tightly controlled for the most part following one of my mottos: Whoever controls your perception of reality controls you. Whatever we believe to be true will be the foundation from which we make our decisions, whether what we believe IS true or not. Our job is to expose the mysteries wrapped in riddles inside enigmas -- revealing a new political landscape, a new social paradigm.

edit typo
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. "Whoever controls your perception of reality controls you."
Bang on. This awareness is at the core of the cultural guardian institutions I referred to in a post above. By creating, disseminating and defending a cultural narrative of hierarchy, coercion and exploitation, they have been able to make virtually everyone on the face of the planet buy into a life-destroying paradigm of permanent material growth -- the ideology of the cancer cell. Their influence is so pervasive and the messaging so seamless that the majority of us have accepted this state of affairs as axiomatic and beyond question.

Now the cracks and seams are starting to appear, and it's up to those of us who are awakening to force them wider -- to let the sunshine in.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. It's The Big Stick vs The Big Lie, problem is people don't like to admit their perceptions....
...by and large are not their own ... that their mindset and worldview is shaped by scores of various, agenda-setting rhetoric and propaganda of vested interests who seek to limit "democratic interference."

To acknowledge that is too unnerving for many as it removes the macho affectations of the so-called rugged individualism that many Americans fancy themselves as encompassing - when the reality is, most of the groundwork for our perceptions comes from external sources w/ulterior motives.

This is the biggest obstacle for people overcoming the tyranny we face: too many have been brainwashed into not being able to appreciate their imprisonment, and the various divide and rule machinations used to effective result, and will - as seen even here at DU time and again - vehemently attack those who fly this flag as being wingnuts/delusional/conspiracy theorists.

That's much easier than examining how their belief systems are built on empty rhetoric in a world which contains countless examples to the contrary.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. To get a glimpse of how deeply rooted our cultural assumoptions are, consider this idea:
"Children should never, under any circumstances, be forced to go to school."

How many reasons can you come up with to say no the the idea?
Where do those reasons come from? Where did you learn them?
What do you think would happen if we adopted it? Why do you think so?

Our core assumptions run very, very deep. Virtually all of them are generated by our cultural institutions, then lovingly passed on by our parents, school system and media,.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Yes, whether or not we accept something hinges on how it fits into our background assumptions
We define things, and then see them, not the other way 'round
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. Free public schools are a relatively recent innovation in our culture, BTW.
The 1840's, Horace Mann & all that. I think they needed people to be minimally educated for factory work, so they put the financial burden on the state. (Not that I oppose free education--but why does it stop at HS?)
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. John Zerzan writes about that in "Elements of Refusal"
Edited on Fri May-08-09 02:00 PM by GliderGuider
Compulsory schooling and unions both came about as a result of the factory owners' need for a workforce that would accept regimentation without complaint. Free schooling stops with HS because by then its real job is done -- the kids are conditioned to sitting indoors in straight lines without talking while concentrating on things they don't care about for the duration of a work day.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
150. They can monitor our communications all they want to,
but they can't control what we say to each other or what we think, or the fact that we communicate with each other and share ideas and information. At least they can't do that without destroying what THEY get out of the Internet--the ability to gather intelligence and sell us stuff. So they sorta have a dilemma on their hands...but somehow I don't feel like crying about THAT!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. K & R and marking to read other's posts later.
Edited on Fri May-08-09 12:58 PM by truedelphi
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
43. This is why we should be joining forces with the tea parties, not dissing them
As misguided as they are, some right wingers are actually waking up to the corporate control of our government and now is the time for us all to stand together.

Now is the time to unite. The right wing cannot look at the truth when they have the power, but we are better than they are.

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chrisgm2009 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
136. I am fairly new to politics
and i once thought of myself as a rep. no more,i would say informed ind. The tea party caught my attention because of one theme i believe that most in the movement believe, and that is that the gov. does not listen to us. and only cares for its own self interest. I can not agree more with Fireweed. Divide and conquer. We must look past this notion of left vs. right and come together as americans who care about the direction this country{or world?} I have been on many forums, liberal and conservative, and most people have this same belief. That our government is controlled by something else besides what it was originally designed to serve. and that is the american citizens. WE must unite and take back what is ours.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
48. Nothing like staring poverty and decline in the face to wake people out of their slumber
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. A nation
is made up of a number of communities, which in turn is made up of a number of families. Each individual in each family is a piece on the "family mobile." When one piece moves, every other piece on the mobile moves. And there's been a lot of movement on the mobiles, on the family/community/country level.

Nominated.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
52. The perfect storm for guys like Obama to project TRUTH REASON and SANITY
into the matrix

VOILA
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
54. Most of my conservative, republican friends and family have left the repuke party.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!!!!!!!!!! :bounce:

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
59. It seems "polarization" worked to wake us up . . . ????
Edited on Fri May-08-09 02:00 PM by defendandprotect
The lop-sided corporate-press smells so bad that most are tuning out --

The Bush/Cheney experience, I hope, has convinced Americans that Repugs should

never hold office again -- anywhere!

And, Evangelicals and the religious right . . . ????

Think that's 6 feet under -- ???



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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
61. People are turning toward marriage equality, too
While the religious wrong was pouring three brazillion dollars into Prop H8, Connecticut voters, free from the relentless barrage of the-sky-is-falling propaganda, quietly gave them the middle finger. Four New England states are now on board, and a fifth, New Hampshire, is closing in. The goal of "Six by Twelve" (all six by 2012) may actually not be ambitious enough! :bounce:
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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
62. K&R
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
64. We are not now
nor, I would argue, have we ever been a 'center right' country. A center right country would not write and adopt the US Constitution. The Constitution is a left-progressive document. It has been amended to correct some of the 'center-right' tantrums that were displayed at its inception. There needs to be at least one more amendment correcting the margin note that granted corporations person-hood.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. True. I remember that opinion polls on the issues always show that the
majority falls into the "liberal" category even though most would never label themselves as such. I even heard some spin on a talk show yesterday where the host claimed that 70% of Americans were against gay marriage. Recent polls that I've read here on DU show 57% FOR gay marriage, but the "center right" propaganda continues.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. I agree, It's like that that old RW favorite lie that we're a Christian nation,
and that the founding fathers were all Christians.

Confronted by enlightenment, they scream in unison, "Put out the Goddamn lights!"
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
66. Critical mass, tipping point, straw that broke the camel's back......
Edited on Fri May-08-09 03:55 PM by kestrel91316
call it what you will, I do believe you are right.

People are noticing the old emperor had no clothes.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. Reading your caption with my deplorable punster's eye, I saw "Critical MESS"
and thought, "Perfect. That's it!"
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. Our real war is with the corporations. THEY DECLARED WAR ON US. Every aspect of our
Edited on Fri May-08-09 04:08 PM by peacetalksforall
gripes and horrors emanates from the corporations which is a consortium of barons, foundations, industry, military, judges and justices, think tanks, tri-lateral, secret societies, Israeli infuence. Their best weapons against us is Congress (most of them) and the corporate media with all their boobs and bleets and the blonde hair of their guest experts.

Corporate stockholders and patrons and trustees of foundations hold more clout than we do in our growing revelations, but by their purchases and holdings, they are also at war with us.

Which means that some of us are at war with ourselves.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Many don't understand that corps are private tyrannies required by law to put share holders ahead of
...the public trust/common good.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. The corporate "person" is mandated by law to have a psychopathic personality.
I have always found that to be an interesting fact. And it needn't be that way. Imagine a society that decides to demand that all corporations place in their charter a statement of how their existence will contribute to the public good, and how they will neutralize any negative effects they bring into the world. And then imagine that their charters will be reviewed from time to time by a board of regulators acting in the public interest, with the charters subject to revocation if they fail to live up to their commitments to society.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
89. Your op and this one are both excellent! Bravo!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. Excellent essay, Jackpine.
:hi: K&R
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Thank you Myrna.
:loveya:
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LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
73. "A large majority would gleefully see the rich start carrying their share of the tax burden."
Let's see it happen. It has been LONG overdue. I have always maintained that for the most part, most Americans have no idea how the truly wealthy live. Lifestyle programs, and peeks into celebrities houses don't begin to portray the lives of the truly moneyed in this country. Flying under the public radar helps keep the masses from taking to the streets. That is, if the masses could tear themselves away from TV long enough to grab their pitchforks!
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muddrunner17 Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
75. Well said, now we need to leverage that majority over the lobby's $$$ K&R
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Yes! Corporate money seems to be losing some of its power to buy public opinion.
The extent to which opinion translates into votes remains to be seen.

I keep thinking Diebold, etc.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
78. Different people are controlling the message now. We're not being
told what we believe. We never believed it (except for the backwash). The teevee just told us we did.

Didn't make it true.
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
79. 'Error: You've already recommended that thread.'
Amazing how that works, isn't it? The media would have you believe there has to be some sort of false 'balance' maintained, which simply doesn't reflect the numbers.

Then again these people are experts at making up, and living in, their own contrived realities. Facts be damned, and/or the messenger who brings them. Bush even admitted it in a book about him! He seemed to think it was some sort of character bonus, when in fact it is quite the opposite.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
113. Bush, caught in a rare moment of truth:
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in," he said, "to kind of catapult the propaganda."

- George W. Bush

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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
81. It's about damn time!
:bounce:
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
82. On domestic and social issues, America is seeing some change...
... some for the better.

However, I think there has been considerable
regression for women and minorities.

Minorities are about to lose affirmative action
and the voting laws.

Women have lost much freedom wrt reproductive
rights and still don't have equality and equal
opportunity in the workplace.

This can all be linked to the exceptionally
irrational and insane stewardship of the
economy, and that is not changing.

And this can be linked to an irrational and
insane foreign policy that keeps us in the ME.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
83. And might I add; This majority is finding its own power
to shovel the shit out of gubment.
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audas Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
84. I do not agree
America has had these types of figures for a long time, the majority have always supported liberal values, it is the foundation of your country. The reality is that you have frequently been usurped by nefarious interests. Bush certainly did not represent the majority interest, you know the story there.

This "rising tide" is a common misconception - what to take away from this is that the forces of the right, of self interest and greed, are winning.

The truth of the matter is that you can have 70% of the people believing in more liberal, left ideals and it is not going to change anything as America has been institutionalised. There is nothing which can be done, even if it were your most ardent, collective wish.

There is only one way for America to change and and that involves the collective will of the people - judging by what is being said by a lot of International academics - that may very well be on the cards.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
93. I think that what's different this time is that we're beginning to realize
Edited on Fri May-08-09 08:04 PM by Jackpine Radical
that we're in the majority, that in fact we are not a "center-right" country as we have for so long been told.

And let me say Welcome to DU. I think you may find this to be an interesting place.
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blaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
86. K&R and a request
Thanks for the great discussion!!

It all speaks to what I want to say to my ConservaDem Senator Udall... I'm just not nearly as articulate or bright as the posters in this thread!

(Rather than hijack this thread... could some of you respond to my request here? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5620717 )

Much appreciated.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
88. yea wer'e mad as hell now so they better look out-sure what a joke
Edited on Fri May-08-09 07:59 PM by natrat
it's an incredibly stupid country sitting idly by while it's being robbed blind, with the main concern being the american idol show this week. shit people, shit government,deluded morons being worked by a completely corrupt elite; but we are mad as hell so look out says don quixote
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #88
98. My perspective differs from that.
I see the apathy, the willingness to be distracted by irrelevancies, as manifestations of learned helplessness. No matter what we did, Bush won, our paychecks got smaller, gas went up, and our kids went to war. If your actions have no effect, why bother? Why not tune out reality and tune in American Idol?

But the election of Obama suddenly inspired people with hope. Maybe things can change after all. Maybe there is a point to caring. And when they started caring, started noticing, then they started deciding to make things conform better to what they want.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #98
117. ...
:applause:
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Save Troy Davis Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
90. May 19th
Save Troy Davis!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
92. Proud to be #95!!! "We're through the looking glass Al"
I'm hearing and seeing just the same thing and I've felt that way for a while.

It's great. Gives me hope. The wisdom of the people has always been superior to the
leaders. Fed up is good, piercing the veil is outstanding, moving together, regardless
of affiliation is success.

Thanks
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
94. Another K & R
:kick:
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CANDO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
97. I'm not so sure just yet.
The corporate class seems to have a death grip on our government and too damn many DINOs are running interference for them. I'm feeling like it'll take many millions massing in the streets and boulevards for them to get it. Those tea baggers were a freaking' joke. Those of us on the left and like minded indies need to decide to take our angst into the streets. Non-violently, of course.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Yes, of course. There was nothing in my OP to suggest that it's a done deal,
just that the winds of change are blowing. It's up to us to rig the sails.
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audas Donating Member (114 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. No they are not -
No winds of change were well and truly snuffed out years ago - you are now in the doldrums.
You may be aware of some renewed vigour, that does not mean that there actually is - just that you are aware of it -
Where are the marches and rallies like Vietnam ? NOWHERE - some people turned up at the Whitehorse to protest torture, and meekly submitted to arrest.....oooooh.

your academics have literally given up - are totally right wing or Israeli lobbyists, or have gone over seas.

Nothing is happening, not a single thing. Obama has simply handed the controls of the entire financial system to the very people who destroyed it, has increased military presence around the globe, has done nothing for the environment, refuses to punish those responsible for crimes against humanity, breaches of the Geneva convention and treasonous administration - When is SOMEONE going to stand up and say this guy is telling us really groovey soothing stuff - but not doing a thing about it.


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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
101. K&R
:kick:
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
102. Someone's drinking something
What a bunch of garbage.
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
104. Great post neighbor Jackpine. And I hope we continue down
this new road. I hope we - the people - can take back our government.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
105. K and r
Then let's go kick some lobbyist's butt along with their greedy corporate assholes!

I watched Bill Moyers tonight...and I had just written all 12 of the Dems who voted against Durbin's Amendment.

FYI: write the following asshole Dems: Carper, Byrd, Tester, Landrieu, Ben Nelson of NE, Lincoln, Spectre (duh), Bennett of Co, Johnson (didn't that brain stroke teach him anything?), Baucus, Dorgan and Pryor.

Write them.....NOW. I sent them cards with BIRDS on them.....as in I'm giving you the 'bird!' And you deserve it 4 hating America.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. Thank you. If everybody did just this much, we would scare the hell out of them.
And that's what needs to happen. I think they believe that, if they can keep the corporate money rolling in, they will be OK. They need to be disabused of this notion. Tney can no longer buy their way to success. We are watching, we know what is happening at a level and depth never before seen in the political sphere, and they will either do what they were elected to do or they are gone.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
106. K & R!
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
107. You're seeing things way differently than the way I see them shaping up.
I want what you're smoking.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
110. Very good, but why do I think that at the first sign of trouble the genie goes back in the bag and
the cat back in the bottle.
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Wash. state Desk Jet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. You can wait for the wagon
along with everybody else,but if you don't get on board, you won't catch a ride!
Welcome aboard,it seems you caught on !
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #115
144. doesn't make me feel any better. nm
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-08-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
116. This is why I think they are trying so hard to regulate the internet
it has been proven when the people are allowed to get together and voice their opinions we want pretty much the same things. Health Care, clean water and air, better education, better energy policy, honest leaders, jobs and a home to live in.

Left or right we want these things and online we are working out our differences to get them.

And I agree we all want the bail outs to stop and the leaders who caused it ALL need to be fired or put in jail.

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ControlledDemolition Donating Member (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #116
121. 'The Leaders' are 'The Sprukers'. Who is paying them? n/t
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
123. The majority of Americans are one setback away from ruin
Job loss, divorce, illness, etc. We know there is no middle class security. That really straightens your thinking pretty quick when 70% of the electorate knows they will lose everything if they get sick or lose a job.

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #123
151. I think you just nailed what the corporate media can no longer sell,
because the people just aren't buying it any more, and that is the false sense of security, the PERCEPTION of security. Of course many people have been one or two paychecks away from banruptcy for years, but as long unemployment was relatively low and credit was cheap, they could fool themselves into thinking they were somehow "protected."

You are right that it straightens out your thinking pretty quick when you know you'll lose everything if you get sick or lose a job, and people see it happening all around them--to their neighbors and friends and relatives. They know good and well they could be next.

The media-generated perception or illusion of security doesn't sell any more. That is what has changed, and that's what will change the world.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
124. I hope! The most important invention of the last millenium, the printing press
I maintain it began the sharing of information with the rest of the world on a mass scale and led to the renaissance and public education and literace... The Internet may be our Gutenberg invention... Still developing of course...
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
138. The icing has been changed.....
...but the dirt still remains.....

............................................

How was your dinner sir?

Just fine...thank you. Splendid.

Would you like to try our desert of the day?

Could you say what it is?

Yes sir....for your dining pleasure....the chef has made a nice fascist cake with a delicious "democracy" icing.

...more quietly..............I personally don't want to mention what's in the cake...the chef asks us not to. He says that our patrons just don't need to know..... Sir....I really don't think you want any of this....I've seen some pretty poor ingredients going into it....you really don't want to know....it's some bad stuff....

...louder................but the icing is really wonderful. Light...creamy...and with just a hint of tropical & exotic fruits...like banana...orange...pomegranate and so forth.

Well...I've been hearing about this cake ever since I was a kid in school! Sounds really good. I'll have a slice. Some for the wife too.

As you say sir...sigh....I'll send it out......
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onlyadream Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
139. I believe that there is a shift
but it's happening in the GOP. Anyone watch Megan McCain on TV recently? She'll be the new face - just watch.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
141. populism is scary and dangerous
:sarcasm:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-09-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
146. It is a revolution of information...
People are educating themselves and no longer will accept the status quo.
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
148. Only 52%?

A new poll says 52% want to legalize pot despite a decades-long, intensive propaganda campaign to keep it illegal.


But what you are saying is correct....there are a lot of people who are getting pretty ticked off about how they are being served by their elected officials....and that's the truth!
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