"9-II Was An Inside Job" - the sign behind the speakers at the rally

[WilliamPitt]

Memo to sign-maker: the characters you have after the "9-" are the letter "I" printed twice.

Not ones. I's.

Do better next time.

[sandnsea]

1. Better Still

Learn the meaning of the word priority and skip the banner altogether.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

2. I totally agree.

If the banner don't read "bring the troops home now" at a bring the troops home now rally,.... ya might want to skip it altogether. (JMHO!)

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. There are 1000's of banner out there today

with 1000's of messages.

Should we just ban the 9-11 ones?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

48. We shouldn't ban them

But people holding up off-topic signs should respect the meaning of the rally and stick to the topic at hand.

[JackRiddler]

86. 9/11 is on-topic - this is the 9/11 war

Afghanistan, Iraq - politically infeasible without 9/11. 9/11 given as justification for the entire "Bush agenda", NSA surveillance, PATRIOT Act, "enemy combatant," above all: Iraq. There was the worst and most important conspiracy theory in its impact: Cheney's, that 9/11 was related to Iraq.

No 9/11 or equivalent provocation, no Iraq.

Thus only by forgetting very recent events and causality can we pretend that 9/11 is not relevant to the antiwar protest.

Only by exposing 9/11, in fact, is the antiwar movement going to reach the majority who just see little reason to fight the war, even if they are against it.

And Will Pitt is very disappointing in that he knows the 9/11 story rots, and that the 9/11 story is the religious/ideological basis of the very regime he fights, but he apparently thinks it's more important to be snarky about bad graphic design, indeed to act as though he fears and must run away from a powerless set of non-entities who happen to promote unlikely versions of what happened on 9/11. It's easy to pick out some moronic "no planes" theory and pretend that this somehow invalidates the concerns about 9/11, in the same way that intelligent but comfortable people declare their aversion to the looks of some "hippy" at the demonstration, and use this as their reason not to fight the war actively, even though they are against it in theory.

Meanwhile: 9/11 was a psychological attack on the people orchestrated by their own government, an act of treason, and exposing it is the key to ending not just the Iraq war. Even if you don't believe in direct involvement by agents of the state (and the only reason you wouldn't is because you are blocking out the obvious evidence). Even then: the covert machinations of the covert state, as well as overt imperial policy, the sort of thing well-documented even by Noam Chomsky: these are what led to 9/11, and 9/11 in turn was the lever the PNAC people needed to gain their global war of aggression.

Start here:
http://Justicefor911.org

Read the actual complaint submitted to Spitzer in 2004 and then let's talk.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

89. Some hare-brained tin-foil conspiracy theory

Hurts the anti-war effort far more than it helps it. Unfortunately, the average American lumps everyone at the war rally in with the conspiracy theorists. That clouds the immediate issue of pulling our troops out of Iraq and saving lives.

You can't prove that 9/11 was either MIHOP or LIHOP, and even a circumstantial LIHOP is pretty tenuous. I don't disagree that 9/11 was the impetus for a lot of bad shit - the PATRIOT ACT, etc., but you'll never be able to prove that Bush is responsible for 9/11.

[JackRiddler]

91. Yes I can

Prove that 9/11 when investigated using logic and the available evidence leads inevitably to the conclusion that insider complicity was necessary to create the events we saw on the day. And that it merits true independent investigation of the inside job thesis by people who are not career government whores,* like the 9/11 Commission. (*This word is used in its definition of person who sells their integrity for material reward, and not simply to get a charge.)

You could start here by reading the complaint linked from the front page:

http://Justicefor911.org

You're just not interested. You have a set of names to call that you substitute for thinking. You picked your preferred conspiracy theory long ago. Sorry about that.

EDIT: It's not clear what the "average American", unencumbered by the PC and PR blinders of an antiwar movement perpetually worried about its "image" with the corporate media, actually thinks about 9/11. Polls have found vast majorities agreeing that there is a cover-up, about a third figuring there was some form of government complicity and exploitation, and, recently, 16 percent saying they thought the Towers were blown up (which is not at all a necessary part of "inside job" hypotheses, but automatically entails inside job if true).

You think Lorie van Auken would hurt your image?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

98. You say you're being logical

But your post is full of assumptions that make you look illogical. For something so keen on logic, your post was filled with logical fallacies.

Sigh... The True Believers (tm) are always the same...

[JackRiddler]

104. None of which you feel you need to detail

Because clearly, the most logical thing is to

- cry, "hare-brained conspiracy theorist" and other names

- refuse to research any of the material

- refuse to follow that link

- make no substantive statement that might tie you to an opinion one way or another

- accept the word of authorities whom you otherwise laugh off as liars

Bravo! Looking forward to your next zero-content, smarmy dismissal

http://Justicefor911.org

[EvolveOrConvolve]

105. Nope

Arguing with a true believer is a waste of time.

1) I followed the link - garbage
2) I've researched the conspiracy theory bullshit - more garbage
3) I don't accept the word of authorities

Your post was a veritable poster-child of the usage of logical fallacies. I can't convince someone who deceives themselves, and I can't respect someone who attempts to deceive others.

[JackRiddler]

106. Garbage!

Garbage! Garbage! Garbage!

This is fun...

[Zodiak]

125. I think the other poster is asking for something specific

other than the generalized term "garbage", which is rhetorically meaningless. The insults only make the post less rhetorically-valuable because ad hominem attacks are A. not allowed on DU and B. are logical fallacies in themselves.

Every 9-11 story is a conspiracy story, so that word is meaningless in the context of this argument, as well. If you buy into one story, that makes you a conspiracy theorist...there are no "non-conspiracy theorist" choices.

If you want to knock down the "tinfoilers", logic and facts are far more effective weapons than smears and generalized statements devoid of detail.

[mnhtnbb]

121. Just finished reading Kristen Breitweiser's "Wake-Up Call--

The Political Education of a 9/11 Widow" and suggest also David Ray Griffin's book, "The New Pearl Harbor"

There is a fairly substantial body of evidence to question that this was
all dumb luck on the part of 19 guys with boxcutters.

And even if it was, the Bushies have done NEXT TO NOTHING to insure
that the same kind of murderous attack couldn't happen again.
We are VERY vulnerable--and people need to be reminded of that.

[King Coal]

132. Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[leftofthedial]

95. ESPECIALLY

when they live in gigantic houses.

[Smarmie Doofus]

JMHO, also. nt

[liberaldemocrat7]

22. George W Bush provoked the 9-11 attacks.

The 9-11 attacks appear blowback for failed US-Taliban oil and gas pipeline diplomacy and the subsequent Bush threat to invade Afghanistan before 9-11.

[Smarmie Doofus]

36. Focus, focus, focus. You may well be correct, but....

.... right now I'm just interested in getting them to stop this damn war.

Theories about 9/11... good ones, bad ones, plausible ones, ridiculous ones... detract from a unified coherent, simple message that a majority of folks can get behind.

Ditto: Abortion Rights, Gay rights, immigration rights... all of which I largely support.

I want anti-abortioners making calls to their senators if the anti-abortioners agree with us on the war. Ditto gay haters.

Iraq is at this point a PR battle in DC. . Let's help the anti-warrriors win it.

Focus.

[yurbud]

60. I agree. I went to a protest organized by ANSWER once and they brought up every single lefty cause

I probably agreed with all of them, but it would have been confusing at best for those who ONLY came to protest the war and may not care about or agree with "free Mumia."

[Dukkha]

93. ah jeez, not the "Free Mumia" again

They've become a staple to every leftist rally out there now. Those people really need to learn to focus. They're the "Legalize Hemp" of the new millennium.

[cui bono]

67. And now they're getting ready for another "attack" to justify war with Iran.

[Imagevision]

82. I agree, the second 9-11 Part 2 - Attacking Iran is being drafted as we speak, this

will happen much like President's Johnson's "Gulf Of Tonkin Incident"
(phony bombing reported on US. ships) during Viet Nam war.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. And what was one of the insuated reasons why we went to war? 9/11. eom

[zippy890]

74. agreed

[ohio2007]

80. They didn't have " Check Spelling " ?

grammer seems to be a pet peeve on this board. I suspect a lot of teachers visit here ?

[INDIA]

88. It's spelled "grammar." It's called "irony."

[Twist_U_Up]

3. isn't there a forum for these inflammatory threads ?

I mean fairs, fair

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Thank you

I agree.

[WilliamPitt]

18. See post 16

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. Watch the video

and then see #5.

Thanks.

[Junkdrawer]

8. No, threads that diss the 9/11 Truth movement are allowed in GD...n/t

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

20. See post 16

[Bluebear]

58. .

[onecent]

12. Me agree also.

[WilliamPitt]

21. See post 16

[WilliamPitt]

16. Am I dissing the movement? Calling them tinfoilers?

No.

I'm saying proper spelling is important.

If you believe in the movement, it should be important to you, too.

Can't sell anything with a bad advertisement, and what is that sign but an advertisement for the movement?

So.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. You have a history

of dissing the movement.

[rman]

72. should we dig up

some your posts in the 9-11 forum?

[TornadoTN]

115. I guess they didn't have 24 business hours to use spell check

I'm not a tin-foiler myself, but your post is too much like the pot meeting the kettle.

[VTMechEngr]

47. Nutty threads go to the 9/11 forum

Sane threads stay in GD.

And don't bother with me - I'm an engineer.

[RegimeChange2008]

62. I guess you miss the irony in your own signature then?

It certainly appears Voltaire was right.

Look at all the atrocities which have been committed because millions of people actually believe the absurditiy that 19 idiots with box cutters made the entire United States Defense system stand down for 2 hours.

[rman]

73. Inflammatory threads get locked.

Well, not always...

[Bluebear]

87. :nodding:

[k_jerome]

99. amen. nt.

[npincus]

4. 'Defund the War, Defend America" would be much better

[malaise]

9. Massive crowd

I'm watching all day.

[LibraLiz1973]

10. Do better next time...

That will become the Freeper version of our "Morans" pic

[WilliamPitt]

13. "That will become the Freeper version of our 'Morans' pic"

Exactly.

[Horse with no Name]

45. Now you have gone and done it. And done it good.

Do you think any of those ignorant freepers would have known that those were "I"'s and not "1"'s?

[treestar]

51. They would have picked it up and used it themselves!

we have to go to war and fight them over there because of terra and 9II!

[Laurier]

57. Just like "Karl Rove Has Been Indicted" has become the freeper version of

"conspiracy theory" - thanks a lot. Your assistance to GWB and his henchmen is duly noted.

[DancingBear]

84. No, TruthOut and Jason Leopold are our "Morans"

If credibilty issues so concern you, I suggest you buy a fucking mirror.

[Laurier]

109. You're right. They are our "morans"

and they'll be an albatross around our necks for a long time to come, unfortunately.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Maybe you should watch this video

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/10/28/world-trad...

before you post your insults about those of us trying to find out the truth about 9-11.

Warning. Very Graphic.

[LibraLiz1973]

15. I do not believe he intended to insult you.

Rather, he is making a comment on the fact that the sign is WRONG.

[WilliamPitt]

17. See post 16.

[puerco-bellies]

19. CNN Just showed the 9-11 was an inside job!! sign!!!!

Now showing a few freepers in counter demonstration.
Now Families against the war..

[WilliamPitt]

23. No they didn't.

They showed a "9-II" sign.

I'm not sure what that is.

[LibraLiz1973]

24. It's like WWII and 9/11 morphed into one thing

Oh, you didn't know about the new lingo?
It's sweeping the nation

[puerco-bellies]

25. It was a sign that was two parts.

on top on a black background with white lettering was the "9-11 was an inside job" part, with a second message in the lower section with a white background.
It was very clear and stayed on the tv scree for 4-5 seconds.

[TahitiNut]

26. Sounds like you're an aspiring editor, Will.

[mzmolly]

27. One of the issues I have with some of the "marches," is that they are co-opted by people

who have no sense of priority and who lack focus on the "mission."

[omega minimo]

65. mzmolly, did you forget the

?

[CorpGovActivist]

28. Were the "I's" Stylized Representations of the WTC Towers Using Roman Numerals?

Is there a graphic of the sign available?

- Dave

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. It was on C-Span

So maybe someone can get a screen capture?

[CorpGovActivist]

35. Maybe C-SPAN Will Archive the Coverage on Its Site?

I have the coverage on in the background, but haven't seen the sign yet.

- Dave

[Twist_U_Up]

31. No Doubt

Will just likes to try to throw his snide comments in from time to time.

[Junkdrawer]

33. ..but he's not insulting the 9/11 Truth movement (see post 16)...

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. I'll let his words speak for themself

WilliamPitt

Sat Sep-30-06 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #17

19. The 9/11 story rots and as long as kooks like this control the "movement" (and they do), the truth will rot right along beside it. I've tried, for years. But I won't go where these people live. I won't do it. Only a fool follows a fool.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[WilliamPitt]

37. "I'll let his words speak for themself"

It's "themselves."

Get out of the sign-making business.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I'd rather be a lousy speller

then a lousy journalist.

[leftchick]

42. .

[Pastiche423]

46. On my!

Great call, DoYouEverWonder!

[Laurier]

53. Touche.

Perfect response, DoYouEverWonder.

[nam78_two]

66. WORD!

[Behind the Aegis]

68. .

or is that :bye:

[Bluebear]

69. ouch!

[Mick Knox]

97. That's going to leave a mark! LOL

[TornadoTN]

116. Bravo!

About time some people started getting some guts with regards to this bullying.

[leftchick]

41. lol!

Okay now that you have made your grammar/syntax Nazi point how about addressing her point about YOUR WORDS?

[TheWatcher]

75. "Only a fool follows a fool."

Sorry Will, but as far as this particular subject goes, all I can say for you is.....

You must spend an awful lot of time looking at your own backside when you walk.

[TheWatcher]

77. You should get into the business of addressing your own words

Instead of cheap-shot diversion.

You have 24 business hours to comply.

[twylatharp]

39. I can think of much, much more embarrassing mistakes to make

I've lurked for a long time and remember something about some erroneous "breaking news"

[Laurier]

54. You're quite right.

But are his "24 business hours" up yet?

[Bluebear]

59. twyla, what a choreographer. nt

[SOS]

40. It should read: IX-XI

nt.

[Lilith Velkor]

81. IX - XI eram an inside officium!

[Bluebear]

92. Ooh a palindrome! nt

[Octafish]

43. The two "I"s look kinda like the Twin Towers.

IMHO. Besides, Bush and his cronies used the attacks of September 11 to justify his illegal, immoral, illogical and un-American invasion of Iraq.

[Bucky]

44. Quit feedin' em, Will.

For all you know, it was and ad for an upcoming sequel the anime movie 9

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Dude, The Typewriter's In On The Conspiracyyyy Mannnnnn. Don't You Get It Bro?

[reprehensor]

50. This picture?

[treestar]

52. Oh no! We've given Bush the idea for 911II!

or 911 2.0!

The PNAC is working on it right now!

[Rex]

55. It reads 'nine - roman numeral number two was an inside job.'

Stop giving Cheney ideas!

[newsdude]

56. Funny, coming from a "truthout" guy ...

Please Mr. Pitt, tell us what we should protest, and how it should be done.

[twylatharp]

108. Nail .on. head.eom

[TornadoTN]

117. We should all be protesting 24 business hours, apparently. n/t

[bridgit]

61. U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsn4JA450iA

[donheld]

111. If flight 77 did not go into the Pentagon

Where did it go?

[Zodiak]

127. That's begging the question

Those that contend that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon are not under the burden of proof to show where the plane did go. They are only under the burden of proof to show that Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, as their contention suggests.

Begging the question is a logical fallacy, and although related to the topic at hand...it is not the topic at hand.

That being said, I do not believe there is sufficient proof that the plane that hit the Pentagon wasn't flight 77 (the images we have are to blurry to make that determination one way or another). I just think that we get into rhetorical knots by diverting ourselves into logical fallacy....and these knots always lead to name-calling.

[alittlelark]

63. His ink was also substandard....

will they ever learn?

[leftstreet]

64. Are you in DC?

Or did you see this sign on the tv?

I haven't seen one like it.

[Bonobo]

70. You take a Snark Pill tonight, bub?

[rman]

71. for someone who avoids actually discussing

the topic, you have a pretty big mouth.

[TheWatcher]

76. It's usually the one's with the biggest mouths that have the biggest problem

with denial when it comes to 9-11.

When you have something relevant to add Will, I'll listen.

Until then, you can go back to sleep.

For at least 24 business hours.

[Cobalt Violet]

78. Freedom of Speech is a Bitch ain't it. n/t

[cgrindley]

122. If people keep calling her a bitch, there will be trouble

Honest to god, call her a bitch one more time, and I'll tell the cops that she didn't really walk into a door after that last Superbowl.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful right, the cornerstone of modern democracy, but it does have its limitations. Some of those make sense--eg yelling fire in a crowded theatre--others are more than a little stunned--most so-called "speech codes". But there is another restraint on free speech, a voluntary one, that perhaps some people have forgotten about--manners and good sense.

Here's what I'd like to say to those assholes with the banner...

If you are some fuckwit 9-11 conspiracy idiot, could you do us all a favor and keep your foolish and insulting ideas off television? You are threatening the party's re-election by being so damn dumb. Just because you are too stupid or poorly educated to understand basic structural engineering and math, don't pre-suppose that the rest of us share your mental troubles. You are diluting the anti-war message and you are giving the assholes in the Republican party spin material to get the vast unwashed masses to hold the rest of us in disregard. So in the future, please hold your little meetings in whatever garage you live in, but be considerate and try to hold your little rallies when your parents aren't home.

[DancingBear]

79. Hey, maybe they were drunk

I hope they weren't egomaniacs, though.

That combo is just about useless.

[WiseButAngrySara]

83. What? 111!!!!IIII111 The numbers are letters? OMG. This is series!!111 n/t

[BeFree]

85. So you do agree?

The only mistake on that sign was a fontal error?

That the job was not out-sourced as bush has claimed?

[wildbilln864]

90. kicking...

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Junkdrawer]

96. See that kids...another false-flag attack is on the way...time to label...

anyone who questions the Official Conspiracy Theory "Stupid".

[Feron]

102. Well when a "scholar" tells you that the buildings weren't hit by planes or

something similarly nutty, you know you're not dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed. Truthers do a better job of discrediting themselves than their detractors.

Questions are good, but most truthers are more interested in advancing their pet conspiracy theory rather than looking for actual truth. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Junkdrawer]

103. The "fire weaken trusses" theory was the Gold Standard...Until...

it was pointed out that that theory completely ignored the central support beams.

Then it became the building "top hat" held up the structure until they weakened.

But until the new theory was proffered, anyone who questioned the first theory was a kook who couldn't understand structural engineering.

[Puregonzo1188]

100. I was more surprised about the signs behind the stage

advertising Answer's march on March 17th, with their website on it.

[oblivious]

101. It's kind of sad that this ended up being the biggest thread on the war protest.

But not unexpected, since controversy is what gets a thread really going.

[twylatharp]

107. but if you think about it

without 9-11 there would be no war, it was used as an excuse, which I think is what has lead to a lot of the speculation and suspicion

[Bluebear]

110. Welcome to DU btw :)

[donheld]

112. Will, I think some of your responders

Would flame anything you wrote. I agree with you. We need to do better than 9-II. How difficult is it to Make a correct sign?

[Bluebear]

113. Oh for heaven's sake, donheld, what if the signmaker was not American?

Do you really think someone watching the coverage on CSPAN is going to look at a sign saying "9-I-I" and think "Oh, dear, they can do better."

[DancingBear]

114. Well, his supporters would give him 75 "recommendations" if he copied

and pasted the phone book.

So there you go.

[TornadoTN]

119. Isn't that the truth

I've never understood it, but it seems to be the case more and more.

[rman]

118. That's what we need;

for people who believe the government's story about 9-11 (Will Pitt for sure) to tell the skeptics how to conduct their business.

[TornadoTN]

120. I'm not even in the movement and I feel his post his post is smacking of elitism

It takes everyone in the party from all of our different backgrounds and viewpoints to make a difference for all in this country. However, calling out one particular sign for its improper grammar and spelling is something the Freepers and their ilk would delight in doing. We don't know the story behind the sign and comparing it to the "Morans" sign is comparing apples to oranges.

Trying to use your bully pulpit here to criticize a group you don't agree with is a waste of time and low class.

Of course, my having posted this has immediately opened up my posts for grammar and verbiage checking.

[cgrindley]

123. That's ridiculous

a challenge to the poorly educated idiocy of 9/11 conspiracy theorists is no more worthy of charge of elitism than is a challenge to the beliefs of Young Earth Creationists. Matter of fact, I think that a fairly rational and scientific case may be built arguing that the two are pretty much cut from the same tacky bolt of cheap cloth.

[drbtg1]

124. Wasn't there a time when typewriters did NOT have a "1" key...

...forcing people to use a capital "I" as a one?

I say this because the font on the sign looks like an old typewriter font.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

126. Yes, but we used a lower-case "L" as a one. Not "I".

... but remind me ... what was the point of the OP?

[drbtg1]

128. I think the point was...

..."see post #16".

I forgot about "l", thank you. It still seems like it was only a stylistic point. It's not like putting "e" after potato.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

131. Thanks, I haven't thought of Dan Quayle in a long time ...

... Or since last week when I had potatoe soup



We laughed at him. But he's a genius compared to our current prez.

[Zodiak]

129. The point, apparently, is to denigrate the movement.

Judging from the post history and the obvious intelligence of the OP (who knows what he is doing).

I have not chosen sides on the 9-11 issue because we simply do not know. And we are not allowed to know because the evidence was carted away.

That means that no one on either side has a right to denigrate the other. No one is "stupid" for believing either way, although their reasons for it may not be wholly-rooted in logic (actually, if you have taken a side, you are out of the realm of logic and into the realm of "belief", whether belief in the government being honest or belief in the motivations of BushCo being evil to the core).

WillPitt, as a prominent DUer and a journalist, you should really try to conduct yourself more professionally than to toss red meat around over a grammatical error. DU has a cult of personality on both sides of the aisle, and this OP just reeks of divisiveness. We have enough people here who love to sew discord and toss stink bombs, but no one else does it behind professional credentials.

[Nabia2004]

130. Perhaps they ran out of "1" in their Lettering package

and after spending all their money on travel expenses to DC they couldn't afford another package.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

133. I'm going to lock this at the request

of the OP.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator