What if all this torture busines was about getting pics & videos

[autorank]

for a select few who get off on that sort of thing?

Why were there pics and videos? The interrogations were self incriminating and
the interrogators knew that. That's why they] had Powell, Rice, Tenet, etc. "write
the script" for the torture sessions (http://tinyurl.com/dmzvup">Link, ABC News).

Some people just like that sort of thing. If you're into that and you're a master
of the universe, just order it up.

It's far out and an explanation based on real sickness but I wouldn't be surprised, not one bit.

[babylonsister]

1. If true, that's beyond disturbing.

I always think of nazis and how methodical they were. They/we needed a record?

Good question I don't know the answer to. Rec'd for more eyes. ;)

[ihavenobias]

2. Interesting take.

I think it was primarily to get us to go to war with Iraq. Bush gets revenge for his dad, plus his political capital. Cheney gets his pals no-bid contracts. And the list of special interests goes on.

But sure, maybe some sickos got off on the pics and videos.

[malaise]

3. I have no doubt

check out Scooter's book.

[Me.]

4. Um

No. While I have learned that with them the implausible is always possible, that's a lot of planning and effort just for a few guys to 'get off'. Which by the way I don't think Cheney is even capable of. There was a game in play as you very well know, but I don't think this is it. However, given the acuity of your mind, I'm surprised that this thread isn't about the swine flu and just how did this epidemic start? And that, is my woo woo contribution for the night.

[autorank]

9. You underestimate how important "getting off" is for some people

The tripartite flu is weeks off. I will say this much. The Mexican people are unbelievably
cooperative in following protocols that reduce the chance of spreading this thing.

As for these tapes, why would interrogators tape or otherwise record acts that they were committing
that they thought were highly questionable? They were, after all, getting permission and guidance
from Condi and company in fine detail. So why record it? That's the interesting question.

I knew that this was going to revive itself when Meuller refused to say that this torture saved
any lives.

I'm just following the axiom, nobody was ever too wrong assuming the worst from the Bush crew.

:)

[EFerrari]

10. We talked about this when we heard they destroyed the tapes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2491057

And Darth is such a control freak, it's hard to imagine him getting off to anything BUT an image on some kind of machine. It's not even about sex but about power and control, like everything else seems to be for him.

[Me.]

14. Come Now

You know they need training manuals and audio/visual. The question is, which US citizen was going to be first

[EFerrari]

17. We already know which one -- John Walker Lindh was. n/t

[Me.]

5. Check This Out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5544683

[autorank]

20. Nice turn of a phrase;)

[EFerrari]

6. I heard on Amy's show that at times, doctors or psychologists were present

via video. But, yeah, the other, too.

[autorank]

22. The psychologists should be totally ashamed

Who would employ them? Who would see them?

Their names are known. How utterly disgraceful.

The American Psychiatric Association has an anti torture provision that says, you can't even
be there, if you are you have to report it, and, in any case, participation in this type of
coercion is totally forbidden. The American Psychological Association wavered on making this
type of stand. The psychologists so involved in this will face no sanction from their association.

[EFerrari]

23. The upside is that the psychologist that led the fight against torture

was elected president of the APA last year. He won the fight.

[BuyingThyme]

7. Well, since you asked...

I'm pretty sure that most of the torture has absolutely nothing to do with the torturees but everything to do with the torturers. Not necessarily the people in the towers, but the people on the ground. Torture is a training exercise.

[KoKo]

8. You mean that there was a cabal of sadists who "got off" on that stuff

there within the Bush II Regime?

Well..seems that Poppy Bush was into Kinky stuff way back..with little boys. But, that might just be Disinfo from his "enemies." Still....that "Washington Times" Article did seem "interesting." Of course, that's Way Back/Old News.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

11. Hmmmmm

Kind of like returning to the scene of a crime?

I don't know - perverse personalities know no limits. But I know every time I see footage of that guy in the orange jump suit having water poured over his cloth-covered face by guys wearing masks, I feel sick at heart.

[autorank]

19. It demeans humanity and stretches the limits down to the pits

Who are we? That's why people are averse to take this on as an issue. That's not a good
excuse, but it's the case.

This isn't "us" - it's the very few who participated in this. I think that Tenet is intimately
involved, however, and deserves as much attention as Bush and Cheney. What a Quisling.


The happy pair

[formercia]

12. I wonder if Junior still has a library of tapes

A lot of perps like to keep trophies.

I keep thinking of 'Silence of the Lambs' whenever this subject comes up.

[autorank]

16. Silence of the drones

You think somebody would leak something like this but, then again, the only people who would were
those involved. It takes a transition of power. Gannon should have been a tip off.

What was his specialty? Military "discipline."

This is like Caligula.

[formercia]

29. Sick fuckers...

Someone with access to the launch codes being such a sociopath. It's truly scary.

[stellanoir]

13. It's way beyond reprehensible and deeply disturbing.

Sadism is just so-o-o last millennial.

Ughhh

[autorank]

15. That's exactly what this looks like

Sadism. There's no gain, they must have known that. There's reluctance by interrogators to
do it (hence the prior authorizations in specific detail). Yet it was done and "memorialized".

[harun]

18. As I have said on other occasions, whatever the reason it was not for information.

Every expert FBI interrogator interviewed said they don't torture because it doesn't work. It doesn't get good intel. CIA knew this as well but went and did it anyway, for a reason we don't know yet.

[autorank]

30. Their abasence of any clarification gets odder by the day

Now that it's an issue, front and center where it should be, we have a right to know WTF.

This ruined people and dragged the nation down due the acts of a very few. But there's no
real explanation yet that makes sense. As you point out, since it's widely known that it didn't
work, why?

I was struck by Meuller's comments of a couple of days ago reiterating that no lives were saved.
That's code for - IT WAS USELESS.

We'll see, maybe.

[Echo In Light]

21. I thought it was well known that the pics were being released outside the prisons....

...In order to enrage family members/community?

[Occam Bandage]

24. BSDM whores are a lot cheaper.

[autorank]

31. Right but BDSM folks know when to stop.

I just about fell over when I read that the Alpha victim was waterboarded over 100 x's in a month.

That's beyond the pale. Even if they thought that this worked, they would have to be deranged
to think that after a few times there would be any useful information. In fact, until responding
to this reply, I'd never thought through what it might have been like having this done 3-4 times
a day for a month. It's really unimaginable but horrifying at the same time. No "safe words" with
these guys.

[mikelgb]

25. Bush = 8mm?

[Beam Me Up]

26. I don't buy it as the primary reason.

The primary reasons for torture were discussed here a few days ago. Basically as an implicit threat to anyone who opposes the regime and as a source of propaganda. The latter would be much clearer if everyone understood al Qaeda's actual role in 9/11 (which I believe was mostly as patsies). The former couples with the intention of the Bush-Cheney cabal to broaden the Middle East war and turn the US into a totalitarian police state in essence if not obviously in fact. They put all that in place and used 9/11 as the pretext just as they've used it as the pretext for protracted, unending "war". Yeah, its conceivable that some of these death-cult freaks 'got of on' the torture but if you've got enough money and power you can get that kind of video by underground means -- you don't have to institute it as policy. Moreover, I believe, for the cabal "national security" (in the sense of preventing terrorism) was the least of their concerns. Quite the contrary. They WANT to increase the terrorist threat, thus further justifying their long-range intentions. Invasion, waging war against an occupied population, torture -- all that promotes terrorism.

The whole thing -- war, torture, domestic surveillance, the erosion of civil liberties and revoking of fundamental rights as guaranteed by the Constitution, the culture of fear demanding ever increased (mostly bogus) domestic security measures and (I think it worth noting) the increased freedom of the banksters to fraudulently bankrupt the country -- almost all of it rests on the myth of 9/11 being a completely unforeseen "terrorist attack". Breach that mythology and the whole edifice of criminality is exposed for what it is.

Yes, I thoroughly believe the intention of the NEOCON Bush-Cheney cabal was to destroy the American Republic from the inside out under the guise of protecting it. Some people insist they aren't that smart, that all we're facing now is a result of incompetence. I don't buy that for an instant. They knew exactly what they were doing. It was strategic and they may have succeeded. This last part is what irritates me the most because this *could have* all been exposed and potentially stopped in its tracks years ago.

[Echo In Light]

28. Well stated. PNAC "Breach that mythology," indeed (+ thumbs up to your PDS sig line)

[mod mom]

27. Directors of their publicly funded s&m/snuff films.

some very sick individuals!

[autorank]

32. The level of deviance (inacequate term) is difficult to fathom

This is sociopathic in the extreme.