They told us bird flu was the end of the world, now pig flu is going to kill us all

[DainBramaged]

DO you know anyone in your FAMILY that died of bird flu? I am so highly suspect of the CDC and their relationships with big pharma. A couple of years ago, a virulent virus broke out that was spreading among health clubs and high schools (started in NYC) and my daughter cancelled her World Gym membership for a couple of months. Sales of hand sanitizer went up exponentially. In a nutshell, I just can't get crazy about worrying over this. I know, people here are going to be screaming off of their rooftops that the world is going to end, and I am being careless, but hey, I survived two brain tumors and a heart attack, pig flu in Mexico is the least of my problems. And it should be the least of yours too.

[skooooo]

1. For those old enough to remember the Hong Kong flu...

...that was the worst thing in the last 40 years by far. It hit in the fall of 1968. Everyone in my family was sick. Sick taking care of the sick. It was a mess.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I got that in December of 1968.

Thought I was going to have to get better in order to die. That was some nasty shit. I hope this swine flu thing isn't as bad or as contagious. We can hope it just fizzles out, like SARS.

[skooooo]

10. It's funny you never hear anything about it nowadays..

..especially considering there hasn't been anything worse since then!

[Doremus]

86. My mother got it. She was sooooo sick, poor thing.

I was 13 years old and I thought she was going to die. :scared: She didn't of course.

What was the mortality rate of the Hong Kong flu?

[Stellabella]

219. My whole family got that too.

I still remember thinking I was better and trying to get up, only to fall back down on the bed because I was so weak. Horrible stuff.

[amandabeech]

55. I had that, and I was really, really out of it.

I felt fine on the way to school, but by 10:00, the school had to call my Dad to get him to come take me home.

I was one of the first to catch it, but after I recovered, I remember that the town seemed half deserted. The schools may have closed for at least a few days.

My parents never caught it. They were always healthy, but I wondered if they had acquired immunity from some earlier outbreak because they were at least 10 years older than average parents.

[sam sarrha]

61. we were going around checking on people we knew, .made sure they had water, etc..till we got it

[amandabeech]

116. I'm sure that your efforts were appreciated. n/t

[sam sarrha]

62. the worst i got was about 1973.. if you got up too soon you got it all over again.. really thought i

would die.. i would hallucinate for hours and wake up.. and pray i'd start hallucinating again..

i saw it coming and put food and water easily in reach.. i must have been out for a couple days

[MgtPA]

107. I had that one too - the London flu, I believe. First and only time I ever hallucinated.

[Garbo 2004]

63. Had that. Nasty stuff. nt

[yardwork]

186. I had the 1968 flu. I was so sick I couldn't move. I was almost unconscious.

I was just a little kid and I remember being vaguely aware that my little sister's babysitter stayed with me, next to my bed, all day long. I've never felt that way before or since.

[eShirl]

2. if you don't want to worry about it, then don't worry about it. n/t

[Catshrink]

4. Will I still be able to get a bacon guacamole cheeseburger?

I saw a story on the local news last night -- I had to watch it (I was at physical therapy and it was on -- I was glad it wasn't Fox). The enthusiasm with which they report these stories creates the hysteria. They don't encourage rational thought, just try to rev up the masses. It's like crying wolf every time a new threat appears.

[DainBramaged]

6. And that is exactly the point, the MSM is going to whip the masses into a frenzy

over this because whipping them into a frenzy over Obama isn't working.

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. ....

'the CDC and their relationships with "big pharma"'. You mean like encouraging vaccinations against formerly epidemic diseases with high rates of mortality and serious long-term effects? Like, oh, polio?

Observed mortality rate of swine flu in Mexico is at about seven percent
(68 deaths out of a thousand known cases). For comparison purposes, as a relevant data point, the mortality of the 1918 Spanish flu was about 2.5%. So yes, this is in fact something to worry about.

[DainBramaged]

9. SO are you traveling to Mexico?

I knew someone would come into the thread to try and lecture me on the importance of depending on Big Pharm to save us.

[Hanse]

11. Aren't you always lecturing people on the importance of the Big Three?

[SidDithers]

29. Oh snap!...

:applause:

Sid

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. I'm in the UK, so the answer is, no, I'm not travelling to Mexico.

Although that's a moot point as there have already been cases of this same flu in Texas, California, and New York. Air travel makes for a swift transmission vector. And I haven't said anything at all about 'depending on big pharma to save us'. I happen to find your wilfully ignorant and vaguely paranoid attitude absurd to the point of stupidity and the wrongness of your attitude deserving of comment, which is an entirely different thing.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northernlights]

67. it's not confined to Mexico

It's been in Mexico for a month, so anyone who traveled there in recent weeks could have been exposed. In that case, breakouts could begin to appear in any number of places.

Doesn't mean people should panic. But it's not a bad idea to keep an eye on the local news should an outbreak occur in your neighborhood.

Flu sucks and can kill. People forget how bad it can get because of the flu vaccines. But this is a new strain and there is no vaccine for it.

And if there is a major breakout, that could result in a quarantine. So it's a good idea, if it comes to your town, to be prepared. Also to wash your hands a lot.

But I wouldn't listen to goofy newscasters. I've gotten so I can barely have the news on long enough the hear the weather forecast. They shout everything, really fast. It's really annoying.

[truedelphi]

112. They also managed to leave out a very inconvenient truth

Malnutrition and other untreated diseases are rampant in Mexcico. So when you have a population that is not healthy to begin with, then you can expect higher numbers of deaths from an illness.

Big Pharma has known this for a long time. They use the numbers from the poorest barrios on earth to inflate their "research" and thus "prove" their point that people in the USA need to vaccinate their kids from the measles and chickenpox.

Without pulling those numbers from Mexico and Central America into their research, most parents would be able to rationally determine whether they wanted their child to be vaccinated or not against such normal childhood diseases.

[DainBramaged]

115. So true, but here at DU, rational thought is agains the rules

some people here just KNOW they are right and I am wrong.

Be well.

[FedUpWithIt All]

127. Except that this virus is most deadly to those with strong immune systems. n/t

[DainBramaged]

128. SO with those words you panic more people here.

ALL we have are reports from the MSM and from Mexico, and ANYONE who gives credence to reports directly from Mexico, which can't even police their own cities and which is a country so rife with corruption the drug gangs rule the streets , should learn the word CAUTION before bluntly stating without SOLID evidence of the fact they are braying about.

Shame on you.

[FedUpWithIt All]

130. I am a big girl. I can handle facts. I suspect many here can as well. I am sorry if you cannot.

Have a nice day.

[DainBramaged]

131. Proof please

you want to do hit and run posts, show us the proof of your statement.

[FedUpWithIt All]

132. From the World Health Organization

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

Try educating yourself. People might begin to take you seriously.

[DainBramaged]

133. Why do you insist I care? What is YOUR problem?

How many cases? YOU are trying to spread panic, and I don't understand your motive.


"The Government of Mexico has reported three separate events. In the Federal District of Mexico, surveillance began picking up cases of ILI starting 18 March. The number of cases has risen steadily through April and as of 23 April there are now more than 854 cases of pneumonia from the capital. Of those, 59 have died. In San Luis Potosi, in central Mexico, 24 cases of ILI, with three deaths, have been reported. And from Mexicali, near the border with the United States, four cases of ILI, with no deaths, have been reported.Of the Mexican cases, 18 have been laboratory confirmed in Canada as Swine Influenza A/H1N1, while 12 of those are genetically identical to the Swine Influenza A/H1N1 viruses from California. "

They don't break out ANY age statistics on deaths here, so your intent to panic is bullshit. They make as broadbrushed a statement as you do.

Panic monger.

[FedUpWithIt All]

134. Um, my original post was not to you.

:eyes:

I couldn't care less what you think, feel or care about. I just clarified a little misinformation. You jumped on me for it. I supported my statement. Looks like we're done now.

Accept the facts or not.

[truedelphi]

163. You didn't clarify anything - you misrepresented.

See my post here -
http://tinyurl.com/czvztv

[FedUpWithIt All]

170. ...

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

From WHO
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

People who have strong immune systems have been dying from secondary Pneumonia.

Some swine flu strains cause an over production of cytokines in those with HEALTHY IMMUNE SYSTEMS. This causes extreme inflammation which sometimes leads to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

You might want to read up on the 1918 flu and see who died then. Same thing going on now in Mexico. Like it or not.

[truedelphi]

184. As posted in this post, nothing is wrong.

But to extrapolate out of an initial statement by some official that people with healthy immune systems are at risk does NOT MEAN that people with no immune systems or ineffective immune sytstems are gonna beat back this illness. They are equally or even more at risk from this.

[BostonMa]

202. that is true from what they are saying now!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

206. So you don't care but you started an OP on it?

[truedelphi]

160. Thank you for putting up such a good fight.

I was too confabulated when I read that poster's post to even know how to reply.

Finally made up some words which express the illogic behind their statements. It's buried a few posts lower than this one.

Every time I read a post like that, i start to remember the wonderful movie "Idiocracy"

Gotta go now and get some Gatorade on the plants in my garden. They cannot tolerate water any more, ya know!!

[DainBramaged]

165. It is amazing that, I want to live MY LIFE as I see fit, and express my opinion

and some here feel that they have the right to try and shut me up or shut down the thread because they don't agree with my outlook. Such stupid stupid Freeper clones they are.

:hi:

[madinmaryland]

168. Pot, meet kettle. For someone who loves to express their opinion, it's amazing that when

someone disagrees with you, you put them on ignore. I'm glad you put me on ignore, because I wouldn't want to disturb your very little closed mind to anything else.

:shrug:

[truedelphi]

169. Really can relate.

If they wanna complain about my spelling, er, typing, that's one thing.

But my logic is usually pretty irrefutable, mainly because it is logic and not based on "The latest study" or whatever.

Anyway :toast: to you as someone who understands.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

209. Who is making you live your life any differently? You are the one trying to shut down debate.

[truedelphi]

158. I doubt very much that it is "Most deadly to those

With strong immune systems."

You are probably mis-perceiving a statement of a health official that said something like "This flu is striking even those who are young adults who possess more effective immune systems."

There is simply no way that an influenza of any type is gonna spare those cancer patients, whose immune systems have been wiped out by chemo or radiation and/or those with HIV. That statemen6t of yours flies in the face of common sense.

[FedUpWithIt All]

171. ...

Again...:eyes:

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

From WHO

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

[truedelphi]

185. Again, in case you are still missing my point here

Usually for influenza, the majority of the victims ARE people with healthy immune systems.

As their numbers in the overall population are larger. SO naturally when the flu hits, they will be the majority of the victims.

But again, that does not mean that someone whose body's immune system has been shut down by chemo or by radiation is not at risk. It just means that numerically the other people's numbers as counted by epidemiologists in terms of who is contracting the disease will be higher.

Now diseases other than the flu operate differently. For instance, when living in the S.F. Bay area, I was not very worried for myself or my family about the non-drug responding TB cases that were becoming pandemic within certain populations. I was not having to live on the streets, in a homeless shelter, nor was I sharing needles. The Non-drug responding TB really walloped the population whose defenses were down.

But flu acts very differently. Always has, always will.

[Hannah Bell]

161. link?

[FedUpWithIt All]

172. From WHO

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

From WHO

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

[Hannah Bell]

159. thanks for bringing that up, i'm surprised no one else has.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

210. Don't bother them with the facts. They aren't interested.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Actually, to be pedantic

I believe that they said IF the Avian flu ever started spreading from human to human that it was there would be mass casualties.
Now...this new swine flu is of concern BECAUSE it also contains a strain of Avian flu AND it spreads human to human.
This has the potential to kill us all...however, I am suspect of how these strains merged as well as if it is a biological weapon, cause this shit came out of NOWHERE...AND it is at the end of flu season.

[glowing]

16. That what is getting me as well. Sounds more manipulated.

AND I wouldn't put it past the Mexican govt wanting some population control.. they have such lack of social networking, and this recession is causing a lot of problems for them. They have lost a lot of money due to lack of US jobs.. and people are returning with "American-ized" ideas like having money, cars, food. and if the cartels can't be controlled, making the ill with disease will slow them down.

[Horse with no Name]

19. I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the Mexican government...

Seriously.

[Adelante]

49. Really nt

[glowing]

150. Why not? The world seems run by mad men.

[Horse with no Name]

153. True enough. But they ALL aren't in Mexico. n/t

[glowing]

155. You are correct.. many of them reside just north of their border.

[northernlights]

70. it is a particular strain of avian flu they are worried about

And this one is *not* that strain. The avian piece of this flu is U.S. avian flu and not as virulent as the one they've been panicked about.

This is actually a recominant strain that mixes U.S. and Eurasian swine flu dna with avian dna and human dna. What is strange about this one is it's the first they've seen of "intercontinental dna mixing." And it appears to spread human-to-human, which is rare for swine flus (but not unheard of).

What happens is that if somebody with human flu is exposed to swine or avian flu, the dna mixes and matches (reassortment) and you end up with a hybrid. It's natural gene splicing -- happens all the time in the world of viruses and bacteria.

[alphafemale]

8. Wolf Tickets for sale!! Scary, Hairy Wolf tickets for sale!

:rofl:

[DainBramaged]

12. Get your sterile masks while you can.

[TZ]

18. Darwin was right

But it's not survival of the foolish. And the American public is sadly foolish when it comes to this stuff...fortunately the Mexican govt is smarter than you

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deja Q]

15. Pig Flu, Bird Flu, Mad Cow... how long before the next pandemic, Sick Carrot, kills us all?

[TZ]

20. 1912

Btw in epidemiology it is a viral jump from bird to pig to human that is feared and that is what is happening based on my training AS. A BIOLOGIST I actually can believe this mutated from an avian virus

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TZ]

34. I am not saying we are all gonna die

But it's a threat to be watched. I'm not going to lie to soothe people 's feelings. I'm not the utter moron claiming to know more about disease then the CDC. I suggest you find out WHY pigs are considered bridges for viri ... They are incubators for cross Species infection and what's going on IS what scientists worry about . But don't let your standing as a keyboard warrior stand in the way of looking absolutely foolish.glad Obama has educated folk in his administration---by the way you know that alot of people have pigs valves as heart valve replacements right? That should tell you about how intertwinned swine and human physiology (big word I hope you can handle it) is.And of course my typing errors from posting on a phone is more credible than being ex-NIH and being published and there are oodles of people who know my background Dr.Google

[DainBramaged]

79. When you spread personal attacks to PM's, I draw the line there

You really have issues. Putting you on ignore is the best for us both. Have a great life.

[sam sarrha]

22. yes.. carrots can kill you with e-coli, and Spinich has killed more people than smoke'n weed..

:smoke: :fistbump: :headbang:

[DCKit]

33. You axed for it....

[rucky]

66. It already hit us...

[JVS]

148. It was the stinky twinkie epidemic of 2017 that led to renewed regulation of the snack cake industry

words that will be spoken in the future!

[sam sarrha]

21. this is a combination of avian flu and pig flu....

[TZ]

26. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT EPIDEMIOLOGISTS

HAVE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT! But hey it's only Mexicans dying...:sarcasm:

[DainBramaged]

35. Biologist huh, do you happen to work for Big Pharma?

Just asking, because other than the government, and maybe some private research organizations, the job title BIOLOGIST is usually associated with Big Pharma. You can tell us, really.

[alarimer]

100. Quite a broad brush you are painting with there.

You'd likely be dead without "Big Pharma". So would most of us.

If you hate them so much, why don't you go expose yourself to this swine flu and then try to get better without some kind of treatment from "Big Pharma". Good luck.

The fact is that with air travel this is likely to spread far and wide very quickly. The mortality rate right now is higher than the 1918 epidemic. And is something to be concerned about.

[arikara]

192. Speaking of broad brushes

I seriously doubt most of us would be dead without big pharma, and many of us would be much better off. I know too many people on far too many drugs, over-prescribed by their doctors as well as all the over the counter crap filling every medicine cabinet.

I've never used a pharma drug for the flu ...ever. And should I come down with this birdpig flu I would continue to do without any of their offerings.

[kimmerspixelated]

111. I have that person on ignore,

But if it's who I think it is-she does work for Big Pharma!

[DainBramaged]

113. She BLASTED me in a PM and exposed herself

I wondered why she attacked me so vociferiously here and in the PM's she sent me. And they weren't fluffy pancake messages either. I may not be the most liked person on DU, but when a concerted attack forms up in one of my threads, I immediately find the posters suspect, especially if they don't usually post in one of my threads. I was also attacked by her for knowing about CARS and not the CDC, oh the horror of having only a BBA and not a degree in biology.

:hug:

[kimmerspixelated]

114. Well, they usually hang out in other forums, but anything

to do with health-and Blammo-they like to cook the shit out of folks. They feed on it. Sad, really

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

213. Well by all means a woman with a business degree is an expert on influenza.

[yardwork]

187. Wrong and you're totally out of line, too.

You seem to have started this thread as flamebait and now you're busy personally attacking anyone who disagrees with your OP. This is a discussion board, buddy. People come here to discuss things. If you don't like it, turn off your computer.

[DainBramaged]

195. Click

How about I turn you off'buddy'

:puke:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

212. Why are you trying to stifle debate? I believe you called yourself a freeper clone.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

211. and human influenza

[NeedleCast]

24. I don't think a link exists

I'm also paranoid about this "swine flu" being the next pandemic either. This will end up being same level of "pandemic" as SARS, bird flu, west nile, etc. etc.

[DainBramaged]

27. A LOT of people got sick from all of the spraying from West Nile fears

myself included. And they said we were all going to die, and I sprayed so much OFF on my skin the smell now makes me vomit.

[Hanse]

30. So you think the swine flu threat is phony...

but you make up nonsense about getting sick from west nile spraying?

[NeedleCast]

46. I remember that

In Maryland they had big tanker trucks going through our neighborhood spraying mosquito killing pesticides. Lots of people had pets that got sick...but there were still plenty of mosquitoes and zero cases of West Nile. It was such a total crock of shit and a big waste of money. The local and state Gov was busy patting themselves on the back for "curing" something that was never a threat here (or anywhere, really).

[DainBramaged]

50. There were announcements in the papers and on the radio

Close your windows, turn off your air conditioners, keep your pets inside. And then there was duct tape and safe rooms, and one antibiotic was in such short supply that people who really needed it couldn't get it (Cipro I think).

[NeedleCast]

59. And thus a panic is born

As a poster down thread said, anything like this bears watching at some level. For me, that level is going to be right next to zero until there's actually something to worry about. Its hard not to discount something like this has been latched on to by the media for several years in a row and so far, they've all turned out to be nothing more than panic-inducing, scary sounding viruses that ultimately kill about the same amount of people who die in lightning strikes every year.

You know what's scary? Lightning related death and penises. Lightning strikes kill five times as many men as women. There's something to worry about...

[DainBramaged]

60. Wow does that mean my penis is a lightening rod?

:spray: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[customerserviceguy]

72. It's so light

even a thought can lift it!

[DainBramaged]

73. I thought peanuts were already ground fruit

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Actually, it is a useless 'appendage' at this point in my life. :evilgrin:

[customerserviceguy]

92. Well, it is nice to be able to

stand and pee, you gotta admit!

[DainBramaged]

93. They arrest you now for writing your name in the snow

what fun is there left in life?

[northernlights]

76. um, antibiotics don't touch viruses

And West Nile is a virus.

You're confusing the anthrax terrorist scare with the West Nile scare. Anthrax is susceptible to cipro. West Nile couldn't give a fuck what antibiotic you take because they don't touch viruses.

In it's early stages, West Nile was a serious concern because its high mortality rate with birds and the speed with which it was spreading. And people do get sick from it, but most of the time it just feels like "a summer cold" so they don't even realize they had West Nile. It occasionally kills the immune-compromised.

It turned out that only certain species of birds were susceptible to it and they developed immunity (or co-evolved), so we didn't have entire species wiped out.

It remains a concern for horse owners in mosquito-rich areas of the country because it is quite lethal for horses and there are outbreaks pretty much every year. But there is also a vax for it now. The vax itself became an issue because Ft. Dodge rushed to get it out and there turned out to be problems with it. Which is why when I vax for it, I use Meriel's.

WHO and the CDC get concerned because we are overdue for a pandemic, which happen pretty regularly. Given that viruses can be carried around the world in a couple hours, an outbreak of a new and virulent strain could be disastrous. The reason they are so concerned about the avian flu is the very virulent strain that occasionally breaks out in Asia. It so far only transmits bird-to-human, but if it mutates to transmit human-to-human, it could lead to massive loss of life worldwide.

[DainBramaged]

78. Anthrax, yes, sorry, but I have a Bramaged Dain, I didn't link that

the duct tape, plastic sheeting (Home Depot) Cipro, the whole nine yards. Just another scare for us to be worried about. I remember when we had to call the police to have the health department come and pick up dead crows to test them for WNV.

And now this, fueled here by some who insist that yet again the world is coming to an end.

[Garbo 2004]

80. ? Sounds like you're conflating action re West Nile w reaction to 2001 anthrax. Cipro is for anthrax

not West Nile virus. Some people were so afraid after the 2001 anthrax attacks that there was a run on Cipro. Bushco was talking about guarding against biological attacks and telling people to stock up plastic, duct tape and prepare safe rooms. Antibiotics like Cipro are used for bacterial infections, not viruses. Antibiotics don't work against viral infections.

There was spraying for West Nile virus in many areas, like my area which had WN cases, to kill mosquitos that carry the disease. And as with other aerial spraying events, people were told to stay indoors, etc while the spraying was going on. But no safe rooms, etc since West Nile was not a biological terra attack but a disease transmitted by mosquitos. Precautions for residents are to drain standing water, etc. to cut down on mosquito breeding sites.

[FedUpWithIt All]

28. "I don't think a link exists". A link between what?

It is defiantly a virus with multiple strains of swine related influence, avian related influence and human influenza.

Edited...I thought you were responding to another post.

[sam sarrha]

31. link>> this sounds like it was definately manufactured

http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSN24524032._CH_.2400
"The virus is an influenza A virus, carrying the designation H1N1. It contains DNA typical to avian, swine and human viruses, including elements from European and Asian swine viruses, the CDC has said..."

[Hanse]

39. Why does that sound like it was manufactured?

[sam sarrha]

51. DNA typical to avian, swine and human viruses, including elements from European and Asian swine vir

what are the odds...?? in mexico..??

[Hanse]

53. I'd say the odds are pretty good.

Why wouldn't they be?

[sam sarrha]

57. it wouldnt do any good to answer..

[Mojorabbit]

81. Why not

They have a thriving Chinese community, ships dock there from china. Air travel from all over the world. Easy peasy.

[sam sarrha]

121. all the tourists taking the drug cartel tour..Mexico is a pariah nation, not safe for its own people

there are some popular resorts.. hardly the places where they rub elbows with the locals

[Mojorabbit]

122. All it takes is a waiter to sneeze your way. nt

[sam sarrha]

125. whatever

[NeedleCast]

48. No, it doesn't

[Bluebear]

32. "And it should be the least of (your problems) too." - Are you an MD? Epedemiologist?

[DainBramaged]

38. Are you, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon like you always do?

[Bluebear]

40. Nice! Medical advice combined with a personal attack.

[DainBramaged]

41. Stop with the drama, you could have just kept me on ignore.

But I get what's going on here, some of you want the thread locked, I get it.

[Bluebear]

42. I should have. But I'd be missing out on your constant pontificating.

[DainBramaged]

43. (sigh) as you wish.

Goodbye.

[Bluebear]

44. Just because you can't "go crazy" worrying about this doesn't mean there are vulnerable people out.

There are elderly, there are those with compromised immune systems, there are any number of reasons that people would be concerned about this. Frankly, you are not qualified to reassure them that there is nothing to worry about. Goodbye yourself.

[SidDithers]

36. I think a better attitude to take would be somewhere between..

the "bury your head in the sand" approach of the OP, and the abject hysteria that some posters are spamming GD with.

Cautious interest is where I fall. And, I'll listen to the experts.

Sid

[Bluebear]

37. Thank you. Sage advice. nt

[BreweryYardRat]

137. Sounds about right.

I'll take the expert advice with a grain of salt (we've had how many claims of impending pandemics for how many years?), but I'm not going to ignore them either.

[ohheckyeah]

45. There are people who get paid to watch these

kinds of threats and I'm not one of them. If and when it hits locally I'll worry about it. If we took every "threat" the MSM reports on seriously we would be basket cases in no time.

I'm sorry people in Mexico have died from this flu, I really am, but me predicting doom and gloom and wringing my hands on D.U. won't make them less dead.

[sam sarrha]

54. i dont see anyone wringing hands, i see a polite discussion.. mostly, are you censoring us

[ohheckyeah]

64. LOL

Oh, yes, I'm trying to censor you. Good grief, get a grip. I expressed an opinion just like everyone else. There have been a number of comments about some people not caring if Mexicans die.

Are you by chance trying to censor me?

[sam sarrha]

119. not worth the effort, you are obviously on a different road

[ohheckyeah]

135. First of all I never

said anyone was wringing hands, just that it wouldn't do any good for me to.

Secondly, there have been plenty of insults on this thread so your polite discussion is pretty much bullshit.

[DainBramaged]

47. After you've read through the insults and accusations consider this.

When the CDC says a vaccine is needed to protect the population, it guarantees that the drug companies will make a HUGE profit distributing it to that population, and this situation will GUARANTEE either Tamiflu and/or flu vaccine or an antibiotic will bring profits for a select few companies.



When I said I think the CDC is suspect, I meant it. They heve to asnwer for a LOT from the Bush years.


http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/00285/CDC_Big_Pharma.html

In fact, according to UPI, the CDC itself is in the vaccine business. Under a 1980 law, UPI found the CDC had 28 licensing agreements with drug companies and one university for vaccines or vaccine-related products and eight ongoing projects to collaborate on new vaccines.

For instance, the CDC and SmithKline Beecham worked together on the Lyme-disease vaccine. A 1992 CDC activity report, obtained by UPI, says the agency had an agreement "with SmithKline Beecham that currently funds three positions at (the CDC) for the purpose of providing information of use in developing advanced test methods and vaccine candidates."

[Hanse]

52. Why are you against American companies and their workers making money?

And saving American lives in the process?

[malaise]

56. When you know Rumsfeld is a major share holder

that's reason enough to be suspicious.

[DainBramaged]

58. I can't see what you are responding to, but the attacks here are pretty intense

Makes you wonder who works for who, and why do they waste time on little 'ole DU.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=145609

THE TAMIFLU MYTH: What Big Pharma and the CDC Forgot to Tell the Doctors

[rucky]

65. And when pigs start flying, that flu will be a doozy!

[customerserviceguy]

68. I thought it might be hype as well, so I asked my neighbor

a retired physician about it today. He says he's never seen the CDC so scared. But he likes to avoid most people most of the time.

[hedgehog]

69. Let's assume the warnings are accurate and we're facing a pandemic

(technical term - shit storm)

What would you do differently?

Let's assume that the warnings are greatly exaggerated and there is no dangerous influenza out there.

What would you do differently?


People have been hoarding Tamiflu on and off for several years. As a result of misuse, it is rapidly losing any effectiveness. The real problem, IMO, is that even Big Pharma doesn't have a good treatment, and even if it did, it can't make enough doses fast enough.

[customerserviceguy]

75. For starters, I'm going to avoid airports

but since my next airline flight is not scheduled until Thanksgiving time, that will be fairly easy. The recirculating air in plane cabins is probably not a great thing to be breathing right now.

But seriously, I may be screwed. While I do my work over the phone, I do it with a lot of younger people who have children, and my doctor neighbor agreed, schools and day care centers are just petri dishes. It's a good thing that our cubicles are pretty big, if it really got to be a serious thing, I'd probably wear a mask to work, taking it off only in my cube.

As to what I'd do if I believed it was an exaggeration, I'd simply try to ignore it.

At this point, we just have to wait and see. People do things that reduce transmission of budding epidemics these days, we have means of communication that folks just didn't have in Black Plague times.

[Avalux]

82. Stay home. n/t

[MercutioATC]

85. A little-realized fact: There's a middle ground between "panic" and "do nothing".

Both panic and inaction are counterproductive.

Stocking up some extra food, water and meds is something easy that everybody should be doing anyway.

Having some powdered Gatorade, cold medicine, and N95 masks on hand would be a good pandemic-specific measure.

Being prepared means you don't have to panic.

[Bluebear]

157. Indeed.

[DainBramaged]

71. If he's retired, how does he know they are 'scared'?

:scared:


I called my endocrinologist a few minutes ago (I have her cell phone number since I am one of those high risk people, and I am still sick in spite of what I may think in this thread). These were her exact words.


"Can you fly to Iceland? If not, don't let it bother you. We'll know soon enough if the threat is real. Have a great weekend, oh do you need any refills?"

[customerserviceguy]

77. Like I said, he doesn't deal with people much

He's on the Internet a lot, and I would imagine that he can tell a reputable source from a disreputable one. Marv's a darned smart guy, I feel lucky when he's out of the house long enough to have a chat with me!

He's also a bit cynical, and if he thought this was hype, I feel that he'd be the first person to say so. He really doesn't care about social conventions, I gave him a pound of coffee from my last trip to the Northwest, and I found it between my screen door and main door a few weeks later. He said it was "too strong". He's not the kind of guy who will blow smoke up your ass.

[Mojorabbit]

84. He isn't the only one

my sis is military medical emergency response. They are gearing up in case it gets bad. All depts of govt that deal with emergency response are.

[hedgehog]

104. I guess George isn't in charge anymore!

[bottomtheweaver]

74. Pharma bonanza is the first thing that crossed my mind too.

Could be politically motivated too. Still it's nearly May, which makes me think they're going to have a hard time spreading this unless they stoop to some really evil biowarfare, which, I have to say, would surprise me, but not greatly.

[MercutioATC]

83. Exactly. Just like they did in 1918.

Ummm....err...nevermind.

:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

89. Comparing 1918 to 2009 is a bit silly isn't it?

They were still removing bullets at the barber shop back then.

Don

[MercutioATC]

90. Agreed...but microorganisms have been around for hundreds of millions of years.

Viruses happen...they've happened in the past and they'll happen in the future.

The fact that we now have companies that make vaccines doesn't make this virus a manufactured bug.

[DainBramaged]

91. How do we know that isn't true, we're DU, not the CDC or CIA.

What better place to launch a bug to test than in the country that threatens your security at your border, and give the government a reason to quarantine the border, prevent it's residents from coming here, declare martial law, even though the President thinks he is in charge.


:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[MercutioATC]

94. Loosen that tinfoil hat a bit. It seems to be cutting off circulation.

Nobody would "test" an engineered bug on the general population. The certainty of really bad things happening is too great.

It's a guaranteed losing proposition. There's absolutely no upside.

[DainBramaged]

95. Really, you are absolutely sure of that?

OK, I'll consider becoming paniced instead. :dilemma:

[MercutioATC]

97. As I've stated upthread, panic and inaction are not the only two options.

I'm not panicking, I'm taking simple preparatory measures (most of which are part of what I normally do anyway).

Both panic and inaction are counterproductive. The most reasonable course of action is usually somewhere between the two.

[DainBramaged]

99. Which is not the case in this thread. Opinions are considered treason if they aren't

in complete agreement with the anointed here. Sorry I just don't fit the DU stereotype.

[BlooInBloo]

87. I don't know if it's a pharma conspiracy, but I certainly view "we're all gonna die!" epidemic

claims very skeptically.

Especially when internet people are among those pushing the claims.

[DainBramaged]

88. Peak oil

I have just started to realize the agenda in those two words.

[Raine]

146. Me too

this is how worried I am :boring: I think it's all :tinfoilhat:

[alarimer]

96. Oh bullshit with the fucking conspiracy theories.

The CDC is our only hope of fighting this if it becomes a pandemic. Stop the fear-mongering about the CDC.

And, you know what? You would not be alive without "Big Pharma".

[DainBramaged]

98. Wow, angry aren't you? In a panic? I'm alive because of my Neurosurgeon

so there.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

182. And what do you think your neurosurgeon used to treat you?

peaches and cream?

No

PHARMACEUTICAL PRODUCTS

We also call them DRUGS

[Garbo 2004]

101. Who says it's "going to kill us all?" Who says "the world is going to end?"

Aren't you engaging in hyperbole yourself?

[DainBramaged]

102. I guess my OP's are subject to more intense scrutiny than yours?

Why are you panicked over my thread? :dilemma:

[Garbo 2004]

140. ? "Panicked?" Why do you say others are "panicked" when you're simply asked a question?

And you didn't answer the questions I posted. In fact no one here is saying "the world is going to end" as you've asserted.

[DainBramaged]

143. (sigh) I answered everyone else's, are you annoyed because I didn't answer YOURS?

Oh well, in life a little disappointment is part of the process and good for you.

[shanti]

105. i didn't know anybody that had bird flu

the swine flu is another story. at least 2 co-workers were ill with "the flu" last week. the one that brought it in had just come back from mexico. you do the math.

[DainBramaged]

106. Wow, now I'm a doctor.

can you get me a culture to analyze?


:spray:


Your assumption is really awful. Did he die? Or is he already back to work? How do YOU know it was THE DREADED SWINE FLU? :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[MrsMatt]

108. It's a variant of swine flu, not "pig" flu

and yes, it is something to be concerned about.

You shouldn't be so flippant.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

173. indeed

[Lucian]

110. I'll take it as seriously as I did with SARS, and West Nile, and Bird Flu...

etc., etc., etc...

[Mojorabbit]

117. Read the story of how SARS developed

and of the wonderful rare public health sucess it was to contain it. There are ten people right now in a town in Indonesia with suspect bird flu(the bad one) and the town is under quarantine . They have thrown a tamiflu blanket over every cluster which has kept it in check. My fear is this flu which is easily transmitted makes it's way over there and recombines. Then we will have a really big problem.

[DainBramaged]

118. That's the point of this thread, why are you afraid of something you have ZERO control over

and that something is causing reasonable people to panic over the potential of them getting the flu and dying? 15,000 people a year die in the US alone of the regular flu, yet that isn't a pandemic? Moderation and carefulness is the key here, not abject fear that you have to change your lifestyle.


And for those (not you)that are trying to make this into a racist screed, you really need to find another way to shut me up. Your mentioning that point shows how bigoted you really are. How lame and ignorant of you.

[Mojorabbit]

123. I am not afraid

I have followed and am still following the development of H5N1
(the bird flu)as as a retired nurse I have an interest in emerging infectious diseases. I have six months worth of food in my pantry, a well, five hens,a garden, and am prepared for hurricanes and a flu pandemic. Because I know I can provide for my family I am not in a panic. Because I have a medical background I am well aware of the potential for disaster of a pandemic if a virus with a high fatality rate develops. It is basic biology.

[DainBramaged]

124. It is basic biology.

yes it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

218. By the way your numbers are off

deaths in the US are 35K a year amongst the usual suspects with a vaccinated population

We have no resistance

But YOU DO HAVE some control

Or are you telling me you do not wash hands, you will go to work when sick (typhoid mary you) and hells bells you will not obey a quarantine order?

See as RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS we have some control over this, and an OBLIGATION to be informed and FOLLOW guidance, that includes getting food supplies to be at home if need be for a longish time

Now it seems to me that you confuse INFORMATION with panic, so the disclaimer at the bottom is for you

[Art_from_Ark]

199. Indonesia? Where people keep chickens in their homes?

I'm not worried about Indonesian bird flu spreading to the US, or even to where I am in Japan. The sanitation environments, among other things, are completely different.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

120. I guess as long as it's only killing brown people we shouldn't worry about it.

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

214. yep, they're all racists, that should work as a baseless smear tactic.

[Canuckistanian]

126. Oooo, the big bad CDC

They're all out to get us. They're everywhere!

It's all a PLOT, I tell you! And stop staring at me! You're one of them, aren't you? I can tell!

Pig Flu, RIGHT! Show me the corpses! I DEMAND YOU SHOW ME THE CORPSES!




Dude, get a grip.

What is your question? Are you insinuating that the CDC started this epidemic? Or is it your opinion that it's "the least of our problems"?

[DainBramaged]

129. I am not worried, but some here INSIST I should be

which has really shown people for who they really are on DU. So is it ok with you I don't give a flying fuck through a rolling flaming donut?

:hi:

[Canuckistanian]

136. Fine with me

:hi:

[BostonMa]

138. where did someone INSIST you should be worried

[Bluebear]

139. "which has really shown people for who they really are on DU" - good heavens.

[Garbo 2004]

141. Evidently the OP believes he's under attack by the forces of Big Pharma here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5534063&mesg_id=5534520

[DainBramaged]

142. Evidently you are engaging in hyperbore

took you long enough to reply in the first place. And you didn't answer my question, so we're even.

[Garbo 2004]

144. Were you sitting on this thread just waiting for responses? I wasn't.

And I'm not "panicked" at all by your thread.

But now that I see the forces of Big Pharma are against you here at DU, I can better understand why you seem to think other posters are "panicking" at your thread.

[DainBramaged]

145. You need to find someone else to talk to.

We're done.

[BostonMa]

179. Poster is obviously angry at the world for something.

[DainBramaged]

183. Your life must really suck having to draw attention to yourself at 1AM on a message board

why aren't you posting on AIM where you might find someone who cares? Or is there an ulterior motive why you showed up at 12:30 out of the clear blue? Maybe you are someones alter ego? Either way, goodnight and good luck finding someone.

[BostonMa]

189. OK cuckoo banana

[Codeine]

193. HYPERBORE?!

Really, "hyperbore?"

:rofl:

[ForrestGump]

207. I'd be tempted to say he's projecting, that 'hyperbore' is a self reference, but that'd be

hyperboor.

[seemslikeadream]

147. Damn I got to get out more (*_*)

Why did I even bother, you guys did a great job ya didn't need me at all. If I knew this was going on shit I wouldn't even bothered :rofl:

[Bluebear]

154. +1

[spinbaby]

151. What I'm afraid of...

...is that the panic will shut down air travel before I go on vacation next week.

[WinkyDink]

152. MRSA isn't to fool with; it is most decidedly not the same as this flu info.

[Odin2005]

156. The ignorant conspiracist woo woo in this thread is disturbing, and very dangerous.

Do I need to get TZ here to set you guys straight? :banghead:

[DainBramaged]

162. No she already attacked me through PM's and is the reason there are

so many deleted posts here. I guess having an opinion not acceptable by the clique is akin to being a Freeper. OH, BTW, smoking KILLS nearly half a million people every year, why aren't you folks pissed off over that?

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

167. Your opinion

Oh, btw.

"Click"

goodbye. Go try and fuck with someone else. MY opinion of this 'crisis' is MY opinion, and if you don't like it, tough shit.

MORE PEOPLE die from smoking, guns, drunk driving, and the regular flu every year, and those of you who are alarmists and inciting people to panic need to get a grip.

[supernova]

174. No, you just look ignorant

being unable or unwilling to separate the info about this new porcine flu and its 1918 potential and run of the mill dastardliness of the Pharma industry.

Discernment seems to have deserted you on this topic.

[DainBramaged]

176. 11 confirmed case in the US per the CDC and the WHO TODAY, ALL recovered

Who's ignorant, those of you who want panic and anarchy, or those of us who are willing to wait and watch what develops? Logic seems to have deserted you on this topic. Go insult someone else. Get you facts straight about this 'porcine' variant, which is NOT going to be the earth shattering event you anarchists are hoping for.



http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2009/h1n1_20090425/en/index.html


U.S. Human Cases of Swine Flu Infection
State # of laboratory
confirmed cases
California 7 cases
Texas 2 cases
Kansas 2 cases
TOTAL COUNT 11 cases
International Human Cases of Swine Flu Infection
See: World Health Organization
As of April 25th, 2009 7:30 p.m. EDT

Another hit and run bullshit panic post from the idiots here who WANT panic and a severe outbreak to justify their existence. Maybe you should watch more soap operas? At least the drama there is updated daily.

[ForrestGump]

205. You're doing something wrong, Ms nova

He hasn't written 'click,' the cute little onomatopoeic tic he makes when he announces to someone that he's put them on ignore (an honor, by the way). You need to try harder next time. Tell him you're made in Japan, or something... :hug:

[MrMonk]

194. "I guess having an opinion not acceptable by the clique is akin to being a Freeper."

I thought having an opinion not acceptable by your clique was akin to being a shill or tool of "Big Pharma". And yet you make both statements without a hint of irony.

[alphafemale]

164. I thought it was going to be tweaker car-jackers with aerolized Anthrax.

That or the damn sharks.

PANIC!!! PANIC NOW!!

:silly:

[BostonMa]

175. I trust medicine over an internet poster.

[DainBramaged]

177. Right, than what are you doing here? And who the fuck are you anyway?

Doctor Who?

[BostonMa]

180. I was attracted by your crazy title.

[MadLabrador]

178. comic

[seaker]

181. When pigs fly

:rofl:

[librechik]

188. this flu is also bird flu

everybody wins!

[Bluebear]

190. It is?

I thought it was a different variant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

197. Has genetic traces of human, swine and bird

but it is a strain of the H1N1 SWINE flu

The fact that it has genetic traces is truly confusing some people

And yes viruses do that

[Bluebear]

200. I was just reading about that!

In fact pork producers want swine out of the name since no pig has been affected and it's hurting their business!

[nadinbrzezinski]

216. Yep it is a strain of H1N1

and what happened is quite natural actually

It is called antigenic shift

I don't need the CIA with their counterparts in Mexico to release piggie paratroopers with virus cooked in Germany, thrown to a small town

Sorry for mixing all them tin foiler in one sentence.

Now if we didn't have a patient zero, I'd be more willing to listen

:-)

[bottomtheweaver]

191. Today's news was all flu all the time

Not a peep about torture, at least while I was tuned in. Mission accomplished?

[MrMonk]

196. Then you're not paying much attention to the news.

[bottomtheweaver]

201. Same today -- top of every hour, both NPR and Pacifica.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n1dnyepCBsM/SdLJx85pJBI/AAAAAAAABao/02xoc3Rjfl8/s400/Annex%2520-%2520Garland,%2520Judy%2520_05.jpg

[bridgit]

198. It was asked of Prince Philip one day if he believed in Karma...

As having been part & parcel to the imperial British colonization of India as a mere for instance; he did answer that he did...when asked what he would care to be reincarnated *as*, well..he responded as to a preference for being reincarnated as a particularly invasive and so ultimately lethal: virus = things that make you go, "Hm..."

Bird flu? Not that I am aware of; but my husband's mother was taken down from a form a swine flu in the late 70's and associated complications so it does happen

[Dr Fate]

203. I'm still getting over SARS and El Nino. n/t

n/t

[Bluebear]

204. SARS was definitely a scare, with ya there!

[rucky]

208. Eventually, they'll be right.

Something will kill us all.

[Two Americas]

215. what is that relationship?

What is the relationship between the CDC and big pharma?

[Bluebear]

224. "Suspect"

:crazy:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

217. Only 7 swine flu deaths, not 152, says WHO

http://www.smh.com.au/world/only-7-swine-flu-deaths-not-152-says-who-20090429-aml1.html

Some caution is warranted, but I think there might be a little too much panic about this..

[bottomtheweaver]

220. The panic police will be along any minute now

to set you straight. This is a serious, serious pandemic and you're supposed to be SCARED.

[Bluebear]

221. How idiotic. Who told you to be 'SCARED'?

[bottomtheweaver]

222. Funny looking lady in a tall black hat.

How could you miss her?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n1dnyepCBsM/SdLJx85pJBI/AAAAAAAABao/02xoc3Rjfl8/s400/Annex%2520-%2520Garland,%2520Judy%2520_05.jpg

[Bluebear]

223. You've repeated the same gag, I just don't know what the Wizard of Oz has to do with the flu?

:shrug: