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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:34 PM
Original message
Wealthy Polo Crowd (Not) Jarred By 35,000 Deaths a Day from Starvation


I. Perspective

I am sorry that 21 horses died in Venezuela. I am sorry when the U.S. federal government advocates killing wild horses, too.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081114-mustang-killings.html?source=rss

Thousands of wild mustangs kept in U.S. government holding pens may have to be killed as costs escalate for their upkeep, according to a new federal report released this week.


I am jarred by the deaths of over 35,000 people a day worldwide from starvation.

http://www.starvation.net/

On Tuesday September 11, 2001, at least 35,615 of our brother and sisters died from the worst possible death, starvation. Somewhere around 85% of these starvation deaths occur in children 5 years of age or younger. Why are we letting at least 30,273 of the most beautiful children die the worst possible death everyday? Every 2.43 seconds another one of our fellow brothers and sisters dies of starvation. Starvation doesn't just happen on Tuesday September 11, 2001, it happens everyday, 365 days per year, 24 hours per day, it never stops.


II. Greed

In America, we take the tortilla out of a starving child’s mouth, so that we can pour it into our gas tank as ethanol.

(O)ur industrial center in the United States has already put in the infrastructure to produce the ethanol from corn and soybeans and other edible products. The result being that the world may well starve is an insignificant event to them. As long as the profits roll in from this "new" source of energy, the process will continue and according to Castro, will result in "More than Three Billion Premature Deaths from Hunger and Thirst".
Americans are basically decent people. We have been sold down a road that makes life unsustainable in other nations for our own comfort and mobility. Meanwhile we are spending over 13 Billion Dollars a month to sustain the wars we are fighting throughout the globe. At this time America doesn't look so good in the eyes of the world. We can continue down this self-centered path of conquest and the destruction of vital food that could feed many in the world, or we can ignore the rest of the world at our own peril.


http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2008/04/ethanol_the_sta.html

In America, we breed “suicide seeds” for the greater good of Monsanto, so that third world farmers who will not or can not pay for new seed each year will starve.

Monsanto is in the process of acquiring and patenting their newest technology, known as "Terminator Technology." This technology is currently the greatest threat to humanity. If it is used by Monsanto on a large-scale basis, it will inevitably lead to famine and starvation on a worldwide basis.

Billions of people on the planet are supported by farmers who save seeds from the crops and replant these seeds the following year. Seeds are planted. The crop is harvested. And the seeds from the harvest are replanted the following year. Most farmers cannot afford to buy new seeds every year, so collecting and replanting seeds is a crucial part of the agricultural cycle. This is the way food has been grown successfully for thousands of years.

With Monsanto's terminator technology, they will sell seeds to farmers to plant crops. But these seeds have been genetically-engineered so that when the crops are harvested, all new seeds from these crops are sterile (e.g., dead, unusable). This forces farmers to pay Monsanto every year for new seeds if they want to grow their crops.

In less rich countries, hundreds of millions of people rely heavily on small farms which produce foods for the region. If these farms begin to use Monsanto's terminator technology, and cannot afford to buy new genetically engineered seeds from Monsanto the following year, many of the people in the region may starve. Under normal circumstances, food could be brought in from other regions. However, many of those other regions will likely have the same problems with famine due to Monsanto's terminator technology.


http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/monsanto/terminator.shtml

Show of hands. Who thinks that members of Monsanto’s board of directors ( from wiki Frank V. AtLee III, John W. Bachmann, Hugh Grant, Arthur H. Harper, Gwendolyn S. King, Sharon R. Long, C. Steven McMillan, William U. Parfet, George H. Poste, Robert J. Stevens ) give a fuck about the world’s starving people? Who thinks they are disconsolate over the deaths of 21 polo horses in Venezuela? Monsanto cares enough about polo to sponsor the 14th annual Polo match and dinner which will be held on Saturday, June 13, 2009 at Blue Heron Farms

http://www.epworth.org/news/special-events.php

What has Monsanto done to end world hunger? Nothing. If not for world hunger, they would not be able to persuade their lackeys in the U.S. and world governing bodies to write laws and introduce regulations which force Monsanto products on the world, whether we want them or not, on the grounds that their expensive new products will feed more people----people in this case, referring to those people who can afford them. While terminator crops are proving to be a tough sell---some countries have already outlawed them, amid fears that the “suicide seeds” will induce sterility in normal crops---the battle to patent the world’s food supply continues. Monsanto and others claim that genetically modified food will end hunger, even though

The world today produces more food per inhabitant than ever before. Enough is available to provide 4.3 pounds to every person every day: two and a half pounds of grain, beans and nuts, about a pound of meat, milk and eggs, and another of fruits and vegetables -- more than anyone could ever eat.
The real problems are poverty and inequality. Too many people are too poor to buy the food that is available or lack land on which to grow it themselves.

"Why Genetically Altered Food Won't Conquer Hunger" Peter Rosset, New York Times,
September 1, 1999


http://www.biotech-info.net/GE_hunger.html

Genetically modified foods (including suicide crops, if they are every successfully marketed) will do nothing to correct the problem of wealth disparity. Indeed, they are a great big Fuck you! to the world's poor from Monsanto, since they will only serve to drain more resources from third world countries and put that money in the hands of folks who are already so filthy rich that they can afford to spend their free time playing polo.

III. Hypocrites

We say that we love animals. And yet, we kill and eat them. And in doing so, we drive up the price of foods that could be used to feed the world’s starving.

The main reason for the growing shortage of food needs to be tackled: animals specially bred and fattened to be killed for meat. If the crops fed to them were to be consumed by humans, there would be no shortage of food. As much as one-third of the approximately 2000 million tons of annual global food production is used for feeding these animals for their flesh. The feed-to-meat ratio varies depending upon species (poultry, pigs, cattle, sheep & goats) and whether produced in a developed or developing country, but on an average 4 kilograms of feed yields only 1 kilogram of meat.


http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrelease/other/200804208909.htm

The same folks who grow pale at the thought of eating horseflesh think nothing of killing a cow---or even a calf---in order to devour it.



IV. Traumatic

Those who worry that we love our animals more than other people should be relieved by the stories in this section of my journal. The truth is we hate our animals as much as we despise other human beings. If we loved them, we would never treat them the way that horse owners below have.

The team La Lechuza Caracas belongs to Venezuelan multimillionaire Victor Vargas and has been playing annually in the event since 1999. Victor was "in seclusion," according to Peter Rizzo, United States Polo Association executive director.

"This is a very, very traumatic time for him," Rizzo told dpa, the German news agency, Monday.


http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/265289,argentina-considers-doping-tests-on-polo-horses-after-deaths.html

I am sure the deaths have been traumatic. Certainly, the lives of animals who are bred for the sports world are full of trauma---and, by some counts, drugs. There are no rules in place to protect polo horses from doping.

This article describes the use of the diuretic Lasix on polo horses.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-horses-died-wellington-doping-p042109,0,1976489.story

If misused, a diuretic could induce dehydration and chemical imbalances.

Here is an article which describes in more detail the practice of doping horses. According to the author, it started right here in the U.S. and was fueled by greed, i.e. race horse betting. The list of drugs given to animals includes amphetamines, narcotics and barbiturates.

http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/pdf_extract/10/3/100

Starvation is a problem in the horse world, too. I guess if your running days are over and all you are “good for” is breeding, then food is just an unnecessary extravagance.

"The animals had their bones sticking out, were extremely thin, wormy, and many had skin infections and some had untreated injuries to their feet and eyes,'' Perez said. He said Paragallo was not at the farm during the raid but described farm workers as "very cooperative.''


http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13926

Here is another link about another herd of "thoroughbreds" that were allowed to starve to death. Warning, the photos of the dying animals lying on the ground are pretty shocking.

http://www.theolivepress.es/2008/08/08/horse-slaughter/

Even if it gets fed properly, the very fact that a horse has been chosen to participate in the dangerous game of polo means that it suffers. The next article is not for the faint of heart.

http://www.bihartimes.com/Maneka/poloponies.html

Sometimes the heart of the horse ruptures or literally "bursts" with extreme exertion. Last month in Delhi, a polo horse died of a heart attack during a game. Spectators witnessed his death throes after which he was slung over a beam and thrown off the field. He is the second horse this year to thus collapse.


Victor Vargas has a spokesman to tell the world that he feels “traumatized”. Too bad the horses can not speak. Maybe we should change the sport, let the human players run around moving a ball across the field----oh, wait. That sport already exists. It is called soccer. Only it does not cost an arm and a leg to participate in soccer, so the rich can not flaunt their wealth by participating in it.

Which brings me around full circle to wealth disparity, and how so many of the world’s wealthiest people are actually proud of the fact that they have more than they will ever need while so many others do not even have the basic necessities of life. This kind of attitude does not just immunize the rich against the suffering of the poor. It makes them enjoy it, for the misery of their fellow human beings makes their own privileged status all the more remarkable.

Folks like that will take the crust from a starving child’s mouth and feel proud of themselves for doing it.



V. Moral

The failure to act compassionately towards those in need, whether human or animal, occurs for the same reasons, mostly because some people forget that we are all linked. If you do not love others, you will not truly love animals either, and if you are cruel to animals, you will be cruel to other people. You will treat other living things as if they were put upon the earth solely for your enjoyment. You will begin to call them your "property". You will lose the ability to love your family and finally, you will stop loving yourself---for how can we love ourselves if the only way we know to feel good is to make someone or something else suffer?



Love is reckless; not reason.

Reason seeks a profit.

Love comes on strong,

consuming herself, unabashed.



Yet, in the midst of suffering,

Love proceeds like a millstone,

hard surfaced and straightforward.



Having died of self-interest,

she risks everything and asks for nothing.

Love gambles away every gift God bestows.



Without cause God gave us Being;

without cause, give it back again.

Rumi


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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting post
The horses died in Florida and there's a criminal investigation because it looks like they were poisoned since the team was the favorite to win the tournament.

I have no respect for the polo crowd, but I think the deaths of these horses was an awful event in the same way that I hate the polo crowd's utter contempt for humanity.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. lame and limp attempt to use the death of those horses as a hook
for your bloviating.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Hi, Cali!
I made this one especially long, just for you. Because Lord knows, there is not enough inhumanity in this world to fill up a DU journal.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I disagree. I thought that's what it was going to be before I read it, too.
I thought it was going to be just another "how dare you care about animals when people are suffering" post. I hate those too.

But I thought this post was much deeper than that. Poverty and hunger and exploitation by the wealthy hurt both animals and people. It's not an either/or.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. What a miserable creature you are. n/t
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Seconded and +1
She hates herself and the world so she tries to drag everybody else down to her level. Plus zero compassion.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Goodness. What did "ignore" say now...? /nt
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Goodness. Why ask what one of your ignored posters said?
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Goodness, you don't recognize a rhetorical question when you see one, do you? /nt
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Goodness, now I can use ignore AND rhetorical questions. Thanks.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. Goodness.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
63. LOL That poster is an "ignore" to me too...
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
56. well, whoever he is, he's already on ignore. what a foul person he is. eom
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. What we really need is an earth shattering post about syrup.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. Yes you are the only one who should be allowed to "bloviate" here.eom
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
48. You are unbelievable...
Whenever I am shocked by the utter lack of respect given to other posters on this forum (due to the style and substance of the attack) almost without fail it is one of your comments.

So often in other persons diaries you go on attack in a decidedly Rush, Coulter, BillO manner. It is SO very possible to disagree without being disagreeable, but you just don't have that skill set. I have lurked here for much longer than I have posted, and I have been able to ignore your worthless contributions to most of the threads here without getting upset, but today you've done it. In several diaries today you have managed to truly upset me. Congratulations! I simply cannot believe that this is not your intent.

I hope you find the peace and wisdom one day to realize that your replies (even when you disagree) do not need to add to the nasty, chaotic world we live in.

On IGNORE now, and I feel better for it already! Please don't bother replying because I won't look at it.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
79. Apparently, some people STILL need to see the sarcasm tag ...
... before they will realize if a post is sarcastic or not.

Does this post need the sarcasm tag?

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. i can feel and act for the benefit of both.
animals and people.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
76. well said. as usual.
:loveya:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd say you're all over the map with this one,
but there ain't a map big enough.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. really good post. made me stop. and think. and be aware.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R n/t
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wonderful post. Thank you for
putting into a few well chosen words the things that are oh-so-wrong about our world.

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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. Interesting concept
So, no one can feel sorrow for anything, regardless of how close it is to them, until they consider...every injustice in the entire history of the world.

Lame. Feeble. Self-righteous.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
77. It was an interesting post with a different perspective that I can respect...
but...as you rightly point out there is a bit of self-righteousness in there too.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. "We say that we love animals. And yet, we kill and eat them."
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 04:59 PM by Cetacea
The truth hurts. Well done. Expecting the "I'll take that cow with fries"
crowd.


K+R
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. What he said. n/t
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I have to say that that one really bothers me
I used to watch that video on eating meat, and then look in my dog's eyes and wonder how I could eat a cow. Chickens, not as compelling 'cause chickens are stupid. But by that logic, I ought ot be munching out on slugs or sea cucumber, and that's without a doubt the nastiest thing on the planet other than actually eating a rotting whale.

I could live on shrimp, but now the PETA folks are saying that fish are people too. Besides, I think it's supposed to be extra bad for you to live on seafood, especially bottom feeders and filter feeders.

I really need to get past food as entertainment, and stop eating it because it tastes good. I don't think anything dies to make cheetoes, but I would be broad as a barn if I ate nothing but fried carbs.

What to do?
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
52. Eat brown rice and vegetables? NT
NT
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
86. Eat real food.
Food is fuel. That's all. It's not pleasure or happiness or comfort, it's just gas for the engine.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. We also say we love children. And yet, thousands starve every year. nt
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TCJ70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. I love animals...
...I just love to eat them more.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. +1 for tastelessness.
Well played.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. I imagine were we all to give up our various entertainments
I imagine were we all to give up our various entertainments-- sell our I-pods, DVDs and DVD players, console games, magazines, air conditioners, coffee makers, anything more than one pair of shoes, our books, etc... and distribute that money to charity, world hunger would be long gone.

But we don't, although I imagine in many cases we do point at others who hold the same guilt we do in hopes that it makes us feel more righteous.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. We wouldn't even have to do that
the richies could just trade down from the 80-foot yacht to the 60-footer. Maybe even fly commercial. :scared:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I think it would take a sacrifice on the part of every one
I think it would take a sacrifice on the part of every one earning above subsistence level. But we simply won't give up our yachts or our I-pods...
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. If one cannot even discuss any of the things wrong with society
Edited on Tue Apr-21-09 06:23 PM by Reterr
unless the person talking about those things is actually living in a mud hut (in the middle of an extremely consumeristic society), be assured that any change we want to see will never take place.

This is frankly an attitude that helps the right wing (especially the libertarian douche-bags) a lot. Almost everyone is imperfect in terms of their choices but at least some try while others just embrace the Ayn Randian "fuck everything except what I want" attitude, which is just so cancerous to society as a whole. This is why it is easy for them to just call Al Gore a hypocrite and be done with it.

They are less hypocritical in their own eyes I guess, because they embrace a philosophy that makes a virtue of selfishness and self-centredness. Well of course you will never be a hypocrite if your philosophy is "I live for my own pleasure. Fuck the poor, fuck the environment, fuck other animals etc." You will not be a hypocrite for sure. That is a very easy philosophy to live up to.

It is easy to just live for your own pleasure. With that low a bar for oneself, you will never be a "hypocrite" but you will be able to tear down anyone who ever tries to do or aspire to anything good, because at least they are aspiring to an ideal. If someone with an Ipod is still concerned about the environment, their net impact on the earth will still be gentler than if they didn't care at all.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. I have no problems with discussing
I have no problems with discussing the salient and topical problems of this world and attempting to find solutions. My frustrations begin when we start pointing fingers at people for doing the very things we ourselves are doing. My frustrations begin we start demanding sacrifice from those with more, but dismiss the demands for sacrifice from us by those who have less.

I myself am in no position to attack the lifestyles of the 'rich and famous' because for far too many people on this planet, I myself live a life of luxurious decadence. And if someone with three summer homes, one yacht, and loves polo matches is "still concerned about the environment, their net impact on the earth will still be gentler than if they didn't care at all.."

I honestly do not think that the difference between the just and the hypocrite is one merely of degrees.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
80. Emphasis on everyone....
"Almost everyone is imperfect in terms of their choices but at least some try while others just embrace the Ayn Randian "fuck everything except what I want" attitude, which is just so cancerous to society as a whole."

There are just as many wealthy Democrats who embrace Ayn Rand and her objectivism and are just as hypocritical in their "compassion towards others" as Republicans.

They buy $500 worth of groceries for themselves and then buy a $10 bag of groceries and drop it in the food bank bin, which the food pantry then has to buy from the food bank, and then walk out of the grocery store feeling they have helped humanity.

And then proceed to call the homeless person in the parking lot asking for 50 cents a bum and tell him to go away or they will call the police.



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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. Interesting thought, but not necessarily true
First of all, if we were to "sell" all these things, we are just going in a circle. Somebody else will buy it, and will have less money to donate.

Second, if we were to stop buying these things, millions of people in the US and abroad would lose jobs. This would increase poverty and, potentially, world hunger. Not saying this is right or wrong, but this is just the way it is.

Third, the problem of poverty and world hunger goes well beyond just an infusion of cash. While we might donate with good intent, the level of corruption in the developing world is absolutely insane, and it's just human nature that corruption will continue, even among those who escape from hunger (people want to ensure they never go back). Unless we are ready to put in the effort of implementing our ideas ourselves (which some amazingly selfless people have done), and work to help create a viable economy, the money we give won't be too effective. It definitely makes a difference, but I think time and effort is more valuable and effective.

And, one more thing. Should we constantly live life in guilt? I know I am better off than well over 99% of the world - I live in a free country, I have a roof, I have food, I have a graduate degree, I have Internet access, I have a loving family, I have clean water, I have air conditioning, etc. In thankfulness for my good fortune, I donate very regularly - to organizations, and directly to families I know who need assistance. Every time I buy clothes, I donate the same number of old clothes to charity. I volunteer to teach people English. I donate food throughout the holiday season and beyond. etc.

But should I stop enjoying my life too? Should I give up my Internet access? My DVD player? My magazine subscriptions? My a/c? My dinners with friends and family? My occasional leisure travel? etc. We can not be guilty for our successes. We need to be compassionate, humble, and grateful, and that's what I love about liberals - we see beyond just our individual needs; we believe in a greater good, a common cause, a tradition of giving back (yes, we're evil socialists!!!!). When I see people who work in disaster zones, and famine stricken areas, and war-torn countries, I know that there are mere mortals like me, and super-beings like them.

But we should never be guilty for our success; we've all worked hard to get where we are today. However, we should be humbled by our success and fortune, and that is normally enough for most people to give back without directive or prodding.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. You can see that those are the same arguments made by the super rich, can't you?
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 09:35 AM by MilesColtrane
Yet the OP asserts that most of them are uncaring monsters who revel in the pain of others, while we are all righteous because we're merely rich.

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Many working poor aspire to the "values" of the ownership class
...given that the corporate culture's ideological underpinnings are woven into the fabric of what many consider the 'normal,' daily round of life. Very few ever seriously question it. Sad, but true.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. True, but is that a bad thing?
Aspiring to "succeed" is a good thing, IMO.

And in most cases, success is associated with material improvement. A person growing up in a cramped, noisy, violent neighborhood that lacked basic facilities will no doubt want to find a way to a more comfortable environment. And that mostly encourages hard work.

The trick is in how to remain humble despite success/increased materiality, and to realize the importance of giving back. And not to bitch when your tax rate on income above $250k goes up 3%!!!

I know rich people who are arrogant, ungiving pricks, and I know rich people who are among the most humble and giving people on earth. I know working poor/middle classers who are so humble and giving despite their limitations, and I know working poor/middle classers who are wannabes and total jerks.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. It depends upon how the climate of opinion defines "success"
From there one need determine and examine the intentions and actions, versus the propaganda of, the dominant social sources/institutions, etc that play the biggest role in shaping the public mind. Keep in mind that corporations are private tyrannies.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. It also depends on what we personally feel makes us comfortable
In a lot of ways this is dictated to us by corporations and society.

But there are many material (i.e. beyond basic necessities) things we all cherish because they work for us, regardless of what corporations/society think. As a small example, I cherish my iPod Shuffle because I can listen to great music while working out. I couldn't care less what the propaganda is. It works for me.

But yes, corporations/society do have a great hand in shaping our opinion. This is undeniable.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. I'm neither guilty nor humbled by any relative success I may have
I'm neither guilty nor humbled by any relative success I may have. It's a roll of the dice-- I drew the winning lottery number concerning my place of birth.

I think what I may not have succinctly implied was that in our demands/requests/pleas that the rich sacrifice more, we fail to realize that compared to the vast majority of this planet, even the poorest in the U.S. live a life of extravagant decadence. And for the most part, the demands/requests/please from the poorest of the world-- those who live a subsistence lifestyle are falling on our deaf ear no more and no less than on the "rich".
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Agree with you
I hear many people say: "What would it take for Mr. Richie Rich to not buy such a huge home and give the money to poor. etc. etc." But, as you say, that same argument applies to so many people, not just rich people. Surely the poor person in the US and across the globe will find it very depressing that even middle-income families in the US spend on so many things they don't need, while they have to worry about their next piece of bread.

On another note, yes it is a roll of the dice, but place of birth is not the only thing that matters. There are people living very difficult lives in the US - poverty, disabilities, abusive families, rough neighborhoods, disease, hunger, etc. That my problems in life are so much smaller than these, I am humbled and grateful for everything my hard work and good fortune have given me.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Funny how the usual suspects show up to destroy an original post.
You three are becoming caricatures of yourselves. Seriously, you are becoming cartoony. I wonder how many DUers know which three I'm talking about? Good post McCamy Taylor. Don't let the righties on this board try to tear you down.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. It's bizarre because after I read that subthread I was thinking more or less exactly the same thing.
I don't know if ideology comes into play or not. It just looks like good old-fashioned obstreperous grandstanding for the sake of attention.

PB
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I see three "ignored" posts on this thread, but I couldn't guess which these are.
I have a healthy ignore list.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. We must have the same tolerance level. I also have 3 ignores.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. Lol, probably true.
I work on tolerance, try really hard and think I am doing pretty well and then bam! one bad day and my ignore list yells "Feed me Seymour!" and I add 5 people from a single thread to it. :hi:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. LOL. I do know what you mean.
I always get a big giggle when I see really offended responses to someone I have already put on ignore. It reinforces
my decisions.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Splendid post. nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R! Thanks for the perspective!
PB
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. The Venezuelan horses died in the US (FL). ......
And YOU may be incapable of caring about more than one issue at a time, but the rest of us aren't.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Agreed n/t
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superduperfarleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Try reading the whole post.
I don't think it says what you think it says.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. So...Greed=Bad.
Most people who visit this site would agree.

But one person's necessity is another person's extravagance.

For instance, any one of us could sell our computer and give that money away to feed a starving child.

Be careful, the heartless, greedy overclass you rail against just may be YOU. (and me, especially in comparison with the rest of the world)

My guess is that some of the rich can justify their luxuries by posting about how really concerned they are, and how really bad those who have more than they are.
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
32. How many people on this board actually bother to read a post before bashing it?
If you are going to bash something at least bash it based on the actual content therein.
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. OK, I read it.
Now I'll bash it.

First, the author exploits starving children to slander the rich as caring less about children then she does.

Then she goes on this weird conspiracy theory rant about Monsanto's terminator crops. Which aren't even marketed. And even if they were, they wouldn't threaten the poor any more than seedless watermelons do.

And then she goes on some crazy PETA tangent about how polo is cruel to animals, and how she's morally superior to people who eat meat.

I doubt the OP cares as much about poor dead children as she does her own ego.

Did you read it before defending this shit.
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #43
45.  "Did you read it before defending this shit."
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 12:21 AM by Reterr
Yes, I did.

P.s.: Hi "Hanse" ;)-I believe we were speaking earlier today Socko? Peekaboo! I see you....
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Hanse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
84. But... did you read my response?
Because you fail to address any of my points.
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Why do you not want to receive my PMs?
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 11:21 PM by Reterr
You sent me a reply (that made no sense to me-was that an inside joke?) but now you have blocked me?
:shrug:
I was gonna send you a reply if you would unblock me?
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. delete-wrong place, am wasted.eom
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 11:30 PM by Reterr
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. I love Bone and hate the Dark Knight
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 11:29 PM by Reterr
When I was a kid, the games I enjoyed the most were the ones where you had to quickly identify patterns.

This is so pathetic :rofl:...I will admit I am bored. I don't actually care.
I am a liberal Democrat to the core but I don't take DU that seriously, however I like fucking with (trollish) people that do.
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Reterr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-23-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Don't block me man
Edited on Thu Apr-23-09 11:32 PM by Reterr
:cry:
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D-Lee Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. McCamy's ego is just fine
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 06:49 AM by D-Lee
Your assessment is really off-base, given the valuable perspective McCamy provides on a wide variety of societal issues.

If you don't like McCamy's posts, ignore them. I enjoy the way facts are related to eachother and their development ...
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. I believe the BLM horses are no longer at risk
after the evil, filthy rich wife of one T. Boones Pickens adopted *all* of them and purchased them a thousand acre or so safe haven.

I get your point, and yet as some have pointed out here, *we* are the filthy rich neglecting the poorest of the poor.

So I could sell my home and belongings, rehome my critters, live on crumbs and wear rags, and donate everything else to the poor. But they would still be poor, and now I would have joined them in poverty. Would that really change anything?

I do love animals, but I also live in the country and I see animals killed every day for food, by other animals. My dog is trying to assemble a deer skeleton from bits and pieces he brings from the woods to our front door. My cat single-handedly wiped out a mouse invasion and a rat invasion after 2 neighbors moved their henhouses, leaving the rodents homeless midwinter. And my new rescue pup retrieved the tail, bone included, of a wild turkey from the woods. One of "my" turkeys that visits my orchard every morning. Sometimes I don't see the remains, but I hear the coyotes yipping over their kill. And when my elderly, sick pet goat died, I wheeled her body to the woods and she provided a meal for an entire family of coyotes.

So my problem is not with eating animals, but with factory farms that treat them so horribly, so they live such miserable lives that death probably is a blessing to them. But I have no problem with the farmer I knew who raised goats. There was a limit to how many male goats there is a need for. So periodically, she would take one behind the barn, put down a bucket of grain, and while he was gobbling it up, shoot him. They never feel a thing, no pain, no fear, just one instant happily gorging and the next gone.

And having come face to face with a bull that had roamed into my back yard, I no longer have a problem eating beef. He was one terrifying critter, About 2,000 pounds and with a ring in his nose. His owners were very apologetic while they rounded him up. They were also very concerned, especially when he snorted and I said that he'd snorted like that when I was face to face with him. It's probably just as well that although I knew I was in danger, I didn't realize until after the fact how much danger I was in. He could have taken out me, my horse and my goat without a second thought.
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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. I'll Match You Poem for Poem
First, you make some tragic and salient points about the terrible things that go on in the world. I don't equate them, but they're valid.

But that doesn't mean that people don't get to love what they love and laugh and play, in all manner of ways. Here's what Poet Jack Gilbert says, and wonderfully eloquently, about the vicissitudes of merely being human.

A Brief for the Defense

Sorrow everywhere. Slaughter everywhere. If babies
are not starving someplace, they are starving
somewhere else. With flies in their nostrils.
But we enjoy our lives because that's what God wants.
Otherwise the mornings before summer dawn would not
be made so fine. The Bengal tiger would not
be fashioned so miraculously well. The poor women
at the fountain are laughing together between
the suffering they have known and the awfulness
in their future, smiling and laughing while somebody
in the village is very sick. There is laughter
every day in the terrible streets of Calcutta,
and the women laugh in the cages of Bombay.
If we deny our happiness, resist our satisfaction,
we lessen the importance of their deprivation.
We must risk delight. We can do without pleasure,
but not delight. Not enjoyment. We must have
the stubbornness to accept our gladness in the ruthless
furnace of this world. To make injustice the only
measure of our attention is to praise the Devil.
If the locomotive of the Lord runs us down,
we should give thanks that the end had magnitude.
We must admit there will be music despite everything.
We stand at the prow again of a small ship
anchored late at night in the tiny port
looking over to the sleeping island: the waterfront
is three shuttered cafés and one naked light burning.
To hear the faint sound of oars in the silence as a rowboat
comes slowly out and then goes back is truly worth
all the years of sorrow that are to come.

— Jack Gilbert


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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
73. Thanks. "Songs of Innocence" and "Songs of Experience" were written by the same poet,
William Blake, because the world is extremely complicated and must be viewed through the eyes of compassion and the eyes of judgment simultaneously if we are to understand it, understanding being the necessary first step before we can act (lovingly) upon it.

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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-21-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
41. There is absolutely no need to allow poverty. It is a crime
that has been ignored while bankers whine about making less than 250,000 a year. Let's correct this shame.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. A grim situation of staggering, scandalous proportions that the M$M will of course not touch
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. Just a point of fact. The horses were from Venezuela but died in West Palm Beach, FL.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
55. God bless you for this great post.
I was saddened by the horse deaths. And I thought, wow, such typical wide attention by the media for it, when they rarely reference the thousands that die daily from no food or no medical care.
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No More Bushbots Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
61. I enjoy your supposition that ethanol production takes food out of people's mouths
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 12:29 PM by No More Bushbots
If you had a clue about what you were talking about it wouldn't be so hilarious.
So how long have you been a shill for Big Oil?
Or is it just that you hate American farmers?
Does it cause you that much grief to see them making money on their crops instead of shipping the money to your Middle Eastern masters?
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. It ain't ethanol production but
US ethanol production that takes food out of peoples mouths.

Before you start flaming next time perhaps a little basic research would be in order. Here is a link to an article on the subject. http://www.coha.org/2007/06/maize-of-deception-how-corn-based-ethanol-can-lead-to-starvation-and-environmental-disaster-2/

In case you decide not to read it let me paraphrase. Ethanol plants buy corn. Price of corn goes up. Poor guy who eats corn can't afford as much or any. He starves.

Cheers
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
83. Thanks. I was looking ofr one of those. Ironic isn't it that high fructose corn syrup
was developed in order to make use of the over abundance of corn that we had in this country back then...?

http://www.sprol.com/?p=236
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. Corn subsidies take food out of poor peoples' mouths
The world price is artificially lowered and farmers in poorer countries cannot sustain themselves because of that lower price. Whether the corn is used for ethanol or not is beside the point. The only reason it is relevant is that ethanol has been a justification to subsidize corn more than we otherwise would.
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whopis01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
62. They died in Florida, not Venezuela
Not trying to take anything away from the points you are making. Just thought you might want to edit it. When you start off with a glaring error in your first sentence, even one that really is not significant, it can take away from the point you are trying to make.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
65. Here's an interesting little side note to the horse deaths.
These horses are flown all over the world at great expense. They can be worth as much as $200,000 each. So you would think they would spare no expense in their care. Yet from what I've heard on our local sports/talk radio the Venezuelans were using an unlicensed vet to tend to the medical needs of their ponies.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
66. when i lived in AZ
i lived in a town south of Phoenix called Maricopa. surrounded by indian reservations. almost every morning i got to watch wild mustangs run. sometimes only 3-4, sometimes 30-40. it was amazing. only thing i miss about AZ.

EXCELLENT post, BTW.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. I hereby pledge
to take a baseball bat to the next monsanto employee I meet. I am sure that many of you will flame me for this, but I feel that if you worked for Hitler then you deserved what you got. The same goes for Monsanto. If everyone did this then Monsanto would have a darn hard time threatening farmers, starving millions, and laughing all the way to the bank.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
69. Dare we talk about hungry dogs?
There may be some connection with this thread. Just can't quite come up with it now.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
70. A very thoughtful and touching post.
I wonder which of the "sore spots" on which you touched evoked the rudest responses?
Ironically, most of the posters that seemed to be critical were already on my ignore list.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
72. So, those polo people must be very very powerful
if they can cause such starvation, when everyone else in the world is so concerned about it.

On the other hand, all the time you spent writing this screed could have been put to better use feeding starving people -- or don't you care either?
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-22-09 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
81. Normally, I automatically kick and rec your threads, then read them!
Edited on Wed Apr-22-09 05:08 PM by ColbertWatcher
But, this time I was sucked into reading first ... and saw this:
In America, we take the tortilla out of a starving child’s mouth, so that we can pour it into our gas tank as ethanol.


Industrial livestock production uses more corn (and water for that matter) than the ethanol industry does.

Please stop spreading the lie that we have a choice between cleaner fuel and feeding people.

I will give you a kick, you seem to have enough recs to get you on the greatest page.

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