Amnesty International: Obama "condoning torture"

[L. Coyote]

Don't take the USA out of the criminal nation column just yet.

==== 17 April 2009
Obama accused of "condoning torture"

Stuff of Life - Amnesty International film - http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/obama-accused-quotcondoning-torturequot-20090417


US President Barack Obama has been accused of "condoning torture" following his announcement that CIA agents who used harsh interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects will not be prosecuted.

Amnesty International has called on the US administration to initiate criminal investigations and prosecutions of those responsible for carrying out acts of torture, including waterboarding, in its "war on terror".

"President Obama's statements in the last days have been very disappointing. In saying that no one will be held to account for committing acts of torture, the US administration is in effect condoning torture," said Daniel Gorevan, of Amnesty International's Counter Terror with Justice campaign.

"It's saying that US personnel can commit acts of torture and the authorities will not take any action against them.

Memos were released this week detailing the range of techniques the CIA was allowed to use during the Bush administration, including sleep deprivation and simulated drowning (otherwise known as waterboarding).

"The memos, in effect, justified torture techniques," said Daniel Gorevan. "We want to see prompt movement on behalf of the US administration on this to prosecute those responsible for the acts of torture, as well as those who authorised and justified these acts."

[gcomeau]

1. He did no such thing. He in fact did the exact goddamn opposite.

Idiots.

[Bluebear]

13. Amnesty International are "idiots"?? Wow.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Well, whoever wrote this memo is.

Clearly.

[gcomeau]

17. Whoever wrote that statement or signed off on it is an idiot.

Or deliberately lying about the situation to gain publicity. Take your pick.

[SLSmith]

22. Vid: CIA Torture Techniques: Stress Position & Water Boarding (Amnesty International)

CIA Torture Techniques: Stress Position & Water Boarding (Amnesty International) Simulation !

Let's see what Limbaugh says now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ftyBHWWJJE

[alarimer]

23. I do not believe the torture has actually stopped.

The CIA has always tortured and always will. Every President gives tacit approval to such things in the name of "national security".

[Mari333]

2. sigh. we are still the bad guys.

so much for obama winning over the world. as long as the last admin is protected from their crimes, we are still considered assholes.
until obama calls out the wrongs of the bush admin and demands accountability, he condones it by lack of demanding accountability. he legitimizes it. he sets a precedent.
he is playing politician in hopes he can win over the right. by doing so he will lose many on the left.
i hope i am wrong.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. hope you won' be so quick to just accept their take-

No one has said that all prosecution is off the table-

And contrary to what AI says, Obama DID say that the techniques that were used under bush are NOT permitted.
He's made the statement very clearly.

I'm disapointed in AI for twisting this to get attention, because I support them and believe their work to be important.
However, I have to question their credibility when they go off making statements like this.

(and personally, I don't care how we're seen, as much as I care about what we DO- )

:hi:

[originalpckelly]

8. Oh how nice of him, he's telling us which fundamental rights he's going to obey.

It's nothing more than modern day benevolent despotism, but in this nation we're supposed to believe any form of unchecked unitary authority is not right.

Obama never had the power to determine that torture was torture, it was always that way.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. sorry, I'm not

following you-

Bush gave his nod on what was done- Obama has said that the methods bush ok'd are NOT acceptable. Not sure what you are trying to say in response to my reply. AI made the claim that Obama was endorsing the continued use of torture- of the continued use of the methods used in the memos that he ordered released- and that is NOT true. That was my point.

I've not known Amnesty International to be sloppy in their messages. What they were saying- the implication that Obama was saying 'hey no biggie- torture is fine' is VERY disappointing, and hurts their credibility (imo)-

Sorry if I didn't communicate this more clearly above.

[Bluerthanblue]

3. I'm a supporter of AI but I think the've gone over

the top with this-

And I intend to write and tell them so.


Thanks for posting this-

[L. Coyote]

7. It is a broad brush swipe, I agree, yet the expressed concerns seem justified

We don't have all the facts yet, I'm sure. We have lots of interpretations from voices who seem to think they do.

It is possible Obama is after the testimony of those following "lawful" orders.
Obama may be preparing a slam dunk game, set, match indictment for those giving the orders and writing the memos.

[originalpckelly]

10. Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my ass.

If you give CIA agents immunity without first obtaining an agreement to testify and fry the big fishes, then you are not forwarding an investigation, you are shutting it down.

EOM.

This is a cover up, because although these memos make the old guys look bad, you and I have no clue what other evidence is still un-released.

And if by some chance he does prosecute them, it will clearly start a civil war. Do you really think the right wing nutjobs will let their former President be prosecuted for torture?

[Bluerthanblue]

18. if you really believe your last 2 sentences, then can I ask

what the hell you want to see happen?????????

[Bluerthanblue]

11. I'm going to hope

for this-

As for their claim that torture is condoned, I believe he's made it pretty clear that is not going to happen from here on out- with his approval.
They say otherwise, and that's dissapointing.

If he DID go for the doers, and failed, or succeeded to some degree, I think he'd have a hard time keeping things going till he got to the top. Maybe it's wishfull thinking, but I'm not going to judge until all is said and done.

An awful lot of crap is on the urgent list- I'm not happy with more than a few of his decisions, but I believe he's doing his best, and his best is better than anyone else I can concieve of in the same position.

He did warn us this wasn't going to be easy or comfortable-

peace~

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Yep. It's OK to torture if your boss says it's OK. The Eichmann defense.

[L. Coyote]

5. WA POST: Another Delicate Compromise From Obama

Tons of links to all the cited writers/opinions:

===========
On Interrogation Policies, Another Delicate Compromise From Obama
By Ben Pershing - http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/04/17/on_interrogation_policies_another_delicate_co.html?wprss=44


When it comes to dealing with the perceived sins or flaws in the policies of his predecessor, President Obama has worked to appease his supporters without necessarily giving them all that they want.

He relaxes Cuba policy, but won't get rid of the embargo. He talks about the importance of immigration reform, but won't do it this year. He institutes a tough ban on lobbyists in his administration, then grants exceptions. The pattern holds as Obama has grappled with President George W. Bush's most controversial legal policies; Obama has repudiated many of Bush's actions even while frustrating his supporters on state secrets, warrantless wiretapping and "rendition" of terror suspects.

Yesterday, Obama attempted his latest high-wire act. The Justice Department released memos detailing brutal interrogation methods used by the CIA, even as Obama said that the CIA operatives who used the methods would not face prosecution. The release comes after a heated internal debate at the White House, and the morning after, it appears that no one is completely happy with the compromise.

Liberals and civil rights groups believe Obama is waffling on a defining moral issue. How, Glenn Greenwald asks, can officials tasked with enforcing the law simply ignore it when the politics get tricky? Conservatives, meanwhile, are happy that there won't be prosecutions at the CIA, but two writers who have a unique perspective on the issue -- Michael Hayden and Michael Mukasey -- say the memos' release "was unnecessary as a legal matter, and is unsound as a matter of policy." More broadly, Victor Davis Hanson complains, Obama "proclaims no more of George W. Bush's 'War on Terror,' even as he silently keeps most of it in place. The result is as confusing as it soon will be dangerous."

..............

[originalpckelly]

9. Can we compromise on the matter of torture?

That is the question, it is pretty fucking clear we cannot.

[Bluerthanblue]

20. so, what is your solution?

given what you've written above about flying monkeys- (and I hate to admit I share your belief that prosecuting the last administrations heinous crimes- especially right now with the economy still on a cliff and people losing jobs right and left- with gun crazy rage and threats of revolution breaking out all around us- we ARE on the edge of a very real civil war- I'm seeing it up close and UGLY here among people who are not responding rationally)

What is YOUR answer to this situation?

Given the response here, I think the best answer for Obama might have been to have simply kept the memos secret. But that isn't the man I cast my vote for, put my pitiful $ behind,and am willing to trust to help lead us out out of the nightmare we are in.

I didn't expect he'd have it easy- but people are dumping all their outrage on him, and he IS just a man, after all.

Instead of ranting, what solution do you suggest- realistically???

[anigbrowl]

24. Think about this...

If Obama wants to reach as high as possible in the past administration, it's going to take time to put the case together...and prosecuting the junior people who were told from on high which techniques were legal will make it harder to build a case against those higher-ups that will stick. In general, you don't bring a prosecution unless you feel comfortable you have enough evidence to make it stick. People expecting an overnight resolution of this are doomed to disappointment. Me, I'm happy enough with the fact that we're out of that business.

[bob4460]

14. a great song for this

Halls of Justice Painted Green
Money Talking
Power Wolves Beset Your Door
Hear Them Stalking
Soon You'll Please Their Appetite
They Devour
Hammer of Justice Crushes You
Overpower

The Ultimate in Vanity
Exploiting Their Supremacy
I Can't Believe the Things You Say
I Can't Believe
I Can't Believe the Price You Pay
Nothing Can Save You

Justice Is Lost
Justice Is Raped
Justice Is Gone
Pulling Your Strings
Justice Is Done
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
So True
So Real

Apathy Their Stepping Stone
So Unfeeling
Hidden Deep Animosity
So Deceiving
Through Your Eyes Their Light Burns
Hoping to Find
Inquisition Sinking You
With Prying Minds

The Ultimate in Vanity
Exploiting Their Supremacy
I Can't Believe the Things You Say
I Can't Believe
I Can't Believe the Price You Pay
Nothing Can Save You

Justice Is Lost
Justice Is Raped
Justice Is Gone
Pulling Your Strings
Justice Is Done
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
So True
So Real

Lady Justice Has Been Raped
Truth Assassin
Rolls of Red Tape Seal Your Lips
Now You're Done in
Their Money Tips Her Scales Again
Make Your Deal
Just What Is Truth? I Cannot Tell
Cannot Feel

The Ultimate in Vanity
Exploiting Their Supremacy
I Can't Believe the Things You Say
I Can't Believe
I Can't Believe the Price We Pay
Nothing Can Save Us

Justice Is Lost
Justice Is Raped
Justice Is Gone
Pulling Your Strings
Justice Is Done
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
So True
So Real
Seeking No Truth
Winning Is All
Find it So Grim
So True
So Real

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. We lost our moral compass in the name of empire

that is all

[L. Coyote]

19. One thing about empires, the propaganda makes you believe there IS a moral compass.

Hopefully, in the US the Empire has finally been demoted to minority party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. It hasn´t, that's part of the problem

see the number of folks justifying this crap on ahem, legal grounds.

[ThomWV]

25. Kick and I certainly would have recommended it if I could have.