My country disappeared

[Cyrano]

I can remember Kennedy and Johnson, and I can also remember the man who said “I am not a crook.” Richard Nixon was not only a crook, but far worse. Both Democrats and Republicans came together in congress to impeach him, which forced his resignation.

I guess we can call those “the good old days.” Ever since then, Republicans have committed crimes that make Nixon look like a saint. They’ve built the greatest propaganda machine in history, they’ve stolen elections, they’ve started illegal wars, they’ve ignored international law, they’ve shredded our constitution, they’ve engaged in torture, and they are responsible for countless deaths. And in their spare time, they destroyed the American economy while enriching themselves and their cronies.

How did we get from Kennedy’s “Camelot” to the Bush/Cheney era of greed, barbarism and slaughter? What the hell happened to our country? Why weren’t we all in the streets with pitchforks?

Obama has made a reasonable start in turning things around, but he has a long way to go.

But here’s what scares me. Cheney and his henchmen are still around, including the media that aided and abetted them, the Supreme Court that appointed a faux president, the 1/3 of the population that didn’t “get it,” still doesn’t, and never will. And now we have a Democratic congress that refuses to hold anyone responsible for the past eight years of lawlessness, war crimes, and very likely, crimes against humanity.

Many here were born after Kennedy and Johnson were gone. Too bad you didn’t get to know what a somewhat sane America was like. Hopefully, someday, you will.

[DS1]

1. Damn Pirates!

Stealing entire countries now!

[Cyrano]

5. Somalian pirates get shot. American pirates get to build presidential libraries.

And while we're on the subject, does anyone have a clue as to what could possible go into the George W. Bush presidential library that wouldn't be an embarrassment or a total disgrace?

[Raskolnik]

2. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the good old days weren't all that good.

Bush was one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, if not the worst. But to pine away for some mythical golden age where politicians didn't lie, U.S. foreign policy was based on democratic ideals, and our citizenry was well-informed and contientious is just silly.

Presidents got us involved in ill-advised wars, civil rights were abridged, and the Executive thumbed its nose at checks and balances long before we were saddled with Bush.

[kimmerspixelated]

12. The big difference in then and now has to do with jobs.

The old days, when a person was saying, " Well, I guess I'll just go get a job," they could actually-most likely achieve this result. Nothing was perfect or great by any means( except maybe part of the 50's), but at least there was at least a good portion of the American Dream(whatever that might really mean) still partially intact. For now, life in general really sucks, there are no life preservers, no trampoline bounces!

[Raskolnik]

15. Really? Are jobless rates higher now than they were in the Depression?

What about in the late 1970's?

[kimmerspixelated]

16. I didn't get the impression we were discussing the thirties.

The Johnson/Nixon years right?

[Raskolnik]

18. The point is that these "good old days" posts conveniently ignore the fact that

those good old days weren't all that great in many ways, when compared to today's world.

[bvar22]

25. Some things really were good.

In the 50s and 60s, a married man, no college education, could get a job that would provide:

*enough money to comfortably raise 3 children,

*provide good health care for his family

*buy and pay off an average new home in the suburbs

*buy a new American car every few years

*take a decent traveling vacation every year

*Save some money, and comfortable retire with needs met.

*His children could attend a State College, and graduate debt free.

A father in the 60s could realistically promise his children that "You'll be able to live better than me".

If we had a Political Party that represented the Working Class, we could have all those things again.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

28. If that married man was White

I would agree with you, but to be black in the 50's and 60's was very tough. I didn't live through those times, but hearing from relatives and history books, I like my chances here and now.

[indepat]

37. I remember that day in 1954 as a junior at a major state university in the south seeing

the first black student in one of my classes: the white fathers had let this solitary young man take this course for graduate credit.

[Thothmes]

32. Some things were really bad

Most of what you list did not apply to the African-American population of this country. Jim Crow ruled their lives.

[indepat]

36. You have accurately encapsulated the incredible difference of then and now: I lived

the American dream you mentioned, albeit with a Bachelor's Degree, and seeing what's in store for my grandchildren is sickening because most of this sickening national situation is a direct result of 'pukes having set the national agenda which has now reached full fruition and maturation. :D

[leveymg]

3. Nixon committed all those crimes, too. He hardly looks like a saint, even by comparison.

Yes, Nixon was forced to resign - but, we got Ford, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush Sr. Hardly much of an improvement.

In many ways, Bush 43 was a continuation of the Ford Administration.

[county worker]

4. What happened?

The killing of MLK, JFK, RFK, wounding of Wallace, the fights over the war and civil rights, the Kent State massacre, the Chicago police riots at the Democratic Convention and more. We had way too much reality in to short of a period of time. People wanted to turn away from it all.


On edit:

Ah yes the good old days!

How about the 12% inflation and the misery index to boot? How about the time we almost went to nuclear war over missiles in Cuba? How about coat hanger abortions and deaths? Bring'em back?

I don't ever want to live through the good old days again!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. You're impatient,

and that's understandable. We all want those bastards held accountable.

But, understand that it's not politically or legally feasible for that prosecution to come from the United States. That's why the Spanish - believe me, they have the US cooperation, without a doubt - are undertaking the investigation.

It takes time. I was born before Kennedy and Johnson, so, yes, I do remember those days, and believe me, they weren't all that good. Try remembering those times from the vantage point of a "Negro" or a pregnant woman who didn't want to have a baby or people who got sick and died because the drugs weren't there, and a tiny place in SE Asia to which no one paid attention as US troops shipped over.

They were simpler, but they weren't as good as we like to think they were.

Patience, my friend. It took a long time for those thugs to get to this point, and it'll take a while for the investigation to be completed. That's how these things work.

The principle of Universal Jurisdiction is a beautiful thing. Ask Pinochet ...............

[Cyrano]

8. It was never a perfect world and there probably will never be one

However, how can anyone deny that the past eight Bush/Cheney years have been among the worst this country has ever seen. How can anyone doubt that these people are what the constitution meant by the phrase "domestic enemies?"

Maybe there will be an Eden in some future world, but I strongly doubt we'll ever see it in our lifetimes.

The murders of Jack, Martin and Bobby comprised a decade that was one of the worst in American history. And I never believed I'd see its likes again. However, the disgrace and condemnation of the world that Bush, Cheney and their ilk brought down upon us vividly displayed what they and their cohorts are all about.

Does anyone really believe that Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, or anyone else who "thinks" they way these people do ever shed a tear for Jack, Martin, or Bobby?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. I agree ...........

This is certainly not the America I expected at this point in my life. These past eight years were an horrific aberration, brought about by thugs with nothing more than seizing power and maximizing profits on their mind. But, once they got there, they decided it would be fun to gut the Constitution and curtail personal civil liberties and freedoms.

The nuns, when I was growing up, used to warn us that "when the Communists come, they're going to ask you if you're a Catholic, and you'll have to tell them that you are, and then they'll kill you." Well, it always struck me that answering honestly to that question was really stupid, but, right under our noses, the monsters came and tried to kill people like us, Cyrano, but they failed.

Now, we have to hope - and keep yelling - that good people will bring back our America. I don't know that I'll ever see it, but I have hope ......

[Kaleva]

7. Kennedy & Johnson were no saints

They were men of their times who were greatly assisted by a complacent corporate media.

[BlueJac]

9. This country has been in a nose dive for years......

the politicians are all bought and paid for, but now, with our own money!

[MADem]

10. Kennedy's "Camelot" was a media invention. A fiction.

It felt good by comparison because it came after the horrible repression of the postwar "Commie Witchhunt" years that were precipitated by the McCarthy hearings. Spies, blackballing, Rosenbergs, enemies of the state, watch what you say, watch what you do, spy/tell on your neighbors...suspicion. Those innocent postwar years weren't so innocent.

We had a war in Vietnam simmering during that "Camelot." Everyone was convinced that these half-baked, emerging nations had potential to fall like dominoes if we didn't hold the line. The French tried to warn us off Indochina, but we wouldn't hear them. We had the Russkies beating us into space, and the nation freaking out about it. We had a botched invasion ninety miles off our shores, that was a massive black eye and forced a new President to take the hit for the planning done by others, but that he approved. We had a fucking missile crisis ninety miles off our shores, on this same damned island, and everyone (on the east coast anyway) feared that they'd be nuked to shit, and only a wooden classroom desk could possibly save them (duck and cover, now--we learned that well in the last decade, too!).

We had a President who lied to us terribly, though we didn't know it and we all thought he was a healthy, youthful, athletic, saintly, sophisticated, witty fellow who was devoted to his wife, the most beautiful and sophisticated woman (with the softest baby voice) in the land. In reality the man was VERY sick with Addison's disease, was getting a cocktail of Uppers and B-12 shots by dubious physicians, was cheating on his 'perfect' wife, and....and we'll never know how, if he lived and all that came out, history might have treated him. Dallas put him on Auto-Martyr.

Johnson came into power with the mindset that "Ah'm not gunna be the first Prez-ee-dent to lose a gaddam wo-ah!!" The protests back then, that happened every week and you could always find one, were astoundingly well attended and (despite no email or computers or twitting to get people to the appropriate venues--it was all telephone and posters) made these annual halfassed International Answer events in DC look like a rural community college event. And so we had escalation instead of the obvious solution, which would have been to bribe Ho Chi Minh with a shitload of money, tell him to put on a suit and call himself a Democratic Socialist instead of a commie, and play ball with us instead of the Russkies. He still had to serve somebody, and he was familiar with us, after all--Uncle Ho lived in Boston-Cambridge for a time. Hell, we had better goodies than the Russkies did, too. It would have required a little WORK, though, flipping a commie--and Ho had already gotten the stiff arm when he'd approached us in past administrations.

Johnson left with his Sherman statement after one term and the rest of JFK's, and enter, stage very right Richard M. Nixon. His administration, in a perverse way, showed us that government actually WORKED. The Watergate Hearings were some of the most fascinating deliberative exercises I have ever seen in my not brief life. And they achieved the best result for the nation. Ironically, as much of a crook as Nixon was at home, abroad he achieved detente with the Russkies, "opened" China (which was a fucking mystery to all of us, pretty much), and even domestically, he did the odd good environmental thing (for political reasons, but don't they all?)--cleaned up Love Canal, established the EPA and the SUPERFUND, and signed the Earth Day legislation. He was one of the more environmental presidents in the GOP stables in the latter half of the 20th Century.

Funny how, when you look back, "it was all so simple then." Until you really start thinking about it, and then it becomes a bit less simple.

[Cyrano]

14. So bottom line. Would you prefer a rerun of the sixties or of the past eight years?

For all the disasters of the sixties, there was much that came out of that decade. This country was changed from an "Ozzie and Harriet" culture into a more modern, accepting place in which ancient barriers began to fall.

The beginning of the women's movement, the gay movement, and so much more began in the sixties.

It was a difficult and confusing time. But what I remember more clearly than anything else was that people took to the streets to protest and condemn Vietnam.

But over the past eight years, I don't remember many people out in the streets protesting Iraq. The sixties had its evils and its triumphs. The past eight years had its indifference and a "fuck everyone but me" attitude.

[MADem]

19. I'd prefer neither, thanks anyway. I'd rather move forward.

If you think I'd like to "revisit" the swinging sixties, when the body bags came home in numbers this generation can't even comprehend, (and they never will realize it, either, I suspect) no thanks to that. By the same token, the oppression and intrusion in the last eight years, where you're a "suspect" if you try to do something as simple as board a plane, where you can't take your sweet time helping a ninety year old lady out of a car at the airport without a fatass state trooper coming over to give you gratuitous shit, well, I don't want to relieve that crapola either. Both entrees suck, I think I'll try the salad bar or just have a few appetizers.

The reason more people don't protest is because it doesn't affect them as much. Believe me, if these kids saw their dumb cousin getting shipped off to war, the kids they knew in high school who "did poorly" and "weren't college material" being inducted, and, as they scrabbled to get into college, saw the party animal to their left and the dropout to their right turned in by the school (academic faiure--off to war!) you'd see a lot more people "get motivated." But as long as the services are an all-volunteer force, with clear, plainly written contracts, there's no Uncle Sam grabbing kids off the street or out of school and forcing them to wear a uniform. That's the big difference, here.

Of course, there's also the laziness/couch potato factor as well, and the fact that there are not very many "single issue" organizers. People put on a protest nowadays, and instead of having CORPORATE sponsors, they have these bullshit ACTIVIST sponsors. "The Iraq War Protest--brought to you by every bozo with a gripe from the Free Mumia Club to the "If you Don't Hate Israel You Aren't Cool" Brigade to the "Eating Meat is MURDER Outfit." People who don't agree with all the peripheral stuff that these organizers put up on their stage (and they force people to listen to the long-winded, frankly often LOUSY speeches --not the stemwinders of the sixties), and who find it to be half-baked nonsense, resent adding their body and consequently, their implied "approval," to these one-size, fits all, protests. Back in the old days, and this IS the truth, the speeches were loud, outrageous, and very FOCUSED on the single issue that everyone turned out to protest--not a hodge podge of bullshit that not everyone agreed to. These "potluck" protests can get a crowd together, but it is an UNENTHUSIASTIC one in comparison to the old days. Heck, even the chants suck, now. Some of the "marching artwork" (puppets, and goofy stuff) is better today, but the pre-made signs printed out at Kinko's? Yeccch.

Then again, that's just my opinion. It's not for me to "rule" on the way people do things, I just know that sort of approach doesn't motivate me in any way, shape or form.

So, to sum up, I'll keep plowing ahead. Why revisit that I've already seen? I'm liking the horizon more and more as each day passes.

I'll look back when I'm ready to die. I'm in no hurry, either, thanks anyway.

[Flying Dream Blues]

23. People took to the streets because almost everyone knew someone

who had died, there was a draft, and we also watched the whole cluster***k on TV. These days, they keep the numbers smaller, hide the caskets and don't let any of it get on TV if they can help it. I guarantee you if there was a draft, or anywhere close to 50,000 dead, people would be in the streets. Bottom line is that it is always "about me" when it comes down to seeing people take risks and sacrifice for a cause.

[raccoon]

17. Great post. nt

[MADem]

22. Thank you! nt

[nichomachus]

20. Not "despite" -- because . . .

The protests back then, that happened every week and you could always find one, were astoundingly well attended and (despite no email or computers or twitting to get people to the appropriate venues--it was all telephone and posters) made these annual halfassed International Answer events in DC look like a rural community college event.

I'd argue that the success of the protests was because of the fact people had to actually get off their asses, out of their houses, and interact with other people. I went to a minimum of three meetings a week, where I met all sorts of people and had some great experiences.

We rubbed shoulders, made plans, argued, formed friendships, drank coffee (and other things) and all turned out for the events we planned. Believe it or not, people didn't need twitter or email or anything we have today to find out when and where the protests were. They -- grab your pearls and your smelling salts -- talked in person to other people.

Today, people sit at home, writing anonymous posts (like this one), making snarky comments on five or six blogs, and end up exhausted at the end of the day, thinking that they've actually done something useful. It's much like the people who sit at home trying to hook up with people by computer and actually think that they have a social life.

[MADem]

21. I remember life "BC."** I remember life before the electric typewriter

And when you could get one that had the different type balls and that thing to automatically fix your mistakes....JEEEEEZ! Wasn't THAT just the ticket for the WEALTHY!

Your point is a very valid one. Without the computers and the farting little hand-held devices people do interact more with the people standing to either side of them (I am still one of those people who, when hearing someone talking on the phone in stores and other venues, thinks first that the speaker is a bit "off" and talking to an invisible friend...because back in the old days, if you saw someone having a conversation all alone, that's what you thought). It's a different paradigm for these people. I think, myself, that it's way less fun.

On edit:

**B.C.= Before Computers

[leftofthedial]

13. The failure to hold them accountable for their crimes

(whether due to cowardice, "looking forward," or simple benign neglect)

ensures that they will be back and that their crimes will continue to escalate.

[leftchick]

24. don't forget bill clinton's contribution to the robber barons

he is as guilty as 41 and 43*.

[DCKit]

26. You hopeless romantic, glossing over the cold war hysteria like that.

What would Roxanne have to say about that?

[roody]

27. Homelessness was not an epidemic then.

[dysfunctional press]

29. you mean those two goons who got things going in vietnam...?

:shrug:
same corporatists, different kool-aid...

what flavour was the stuff you drank?

[Cyrano]

34. One of those "goons," Johnson, was responsible for

The civil rights act, the voting rights act, medicaid and much more. His insane pursuit of the Vietnam War made us forget his major accomplishments.

Compare that to the Bush/Cheney years where they tried to undo every social program put in place by FDR, Johnson, and the Democratic Party.

[dysfunctional press]

35. His insane pursuit of the Vietnam War made us forget his major accomplishments.

that's his problem.

[opihimoimoi]

30. This is what we get for not fine tuning our GOV'T...not up keeping

We allowed the Pukes to brainwash us...

People...watching in horror as their life saving and homes were being wiped out, have gottyen the Message::

The GOP dudes are Bullies and care not for the PEOPLE....it clearly shows...evidence is IN

Obama is returning our beloved Nation to its place in our Global Society

[RagAss]

31. We were on our asses in the 60's...during the Bush years we ....

were on our asses with our balls caught underneath !

[KharmaTrain]

33. The Ebbs And Flows...

The wingnuts have always been a part of American politics. Go back to the "do-nothings" of the 19th century...they share a lot in common with today's rushpublicans.

Look to the 30's and there was Father Coughlin and "America Firsters"...in the 50's, there was McCarthy and the HUAC. The excesses of that decade combined with the rise of the "baby boomers" were a major influence in the 60's...it hid the right wing, but sure didn't vanquish them.

If anything, the 1968 election of Nixon was a "repudiation" of the New Frontier years of Kennedy & Johnson, and many of the characters who created today's rushpublican clusterfuck got their start in the 60's. I met Donald Rumsfeld in a class trip to Washington in 1969...the scumbag was my Congressman at the time :puke:. Cheney got his first gigs with Nixon as did Rove.

The big change in our lifetimes (I grew up in the 60's as well) was the implementation of the Southern Strategy by the GOOP...to turn the party from one of substance into one of symbols. The use of slogans, strawmen and dogma vs. true philosophy. It was a reaction to the civil rights movements of the 60's (attracting all the racists) as well as energizing the fundies. All done to win elections and grab power...nothing more or less.

I was extremely disappointed that many of the criminals of Watergate were never really prosecuted and would slither back into government under Raygun and then again with booosh. Sadly, our justice system is a hostage of the powerful politicians and a true accounting of crimes is never done as those in power fear that they could be the targets of the next shift in power. In the case of Cheney and the other war criminals, I see this as an international matter...violations of the Geneva convention, and one that we will need the world's help and persistence in bringing these crooks to trial.

[Annces]

38. I have never idolized the Kennedys

The two who were President had great minds and hearts, but they were from a powerful rich political family. Mrs. Onassis used to wear leopard skins for fashion, similar to the young Prince William liking to go fox hunting.

I don't think Obama can change everything, but he definitely takes his job seriously and will do his best. The world is really based on money and that can change from the grass roots. It is possible eventually.

[Cyrano]

43. You lost me there. Who was the second Kennedy president?

[wiggs]

39. Can't disagree with much, there. nt

[WI_DEM]

40. JFK's camelot included his "best and brightest" cabinet of Bundy, McNamara, Rusk that led us into

Vietnam. He began the process of expanding the war. Also, Nixon was never impeached. But he knew he would be, so he resigned.

[Cyrano]

42. Sorry. Nixon lost the impeachment voted by the full house of congress

He resigned before a trial by the senate. If found guilty of the House's articles of impeachment, he would have been forced out of the presidency.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. What I miss about the sixities is HOPE

not "hope" as an empty political slogan, but a confident hope that things were getting better, that we could beat poverty and prejudice at home and really improve things abroad through the Peace Corps and other non-military means.

I haven't felt that way since Reagan entered the White House.

[anonymous171]

44. Kennedy was a hawk, and Johnson wasn't too fond of organized labor.

Everything is not black and white.