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Stalking the Shadows: Does DU need its own "Boogeyman"?

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:53 AM
Original message
Stalking the Shadows: Does DU need its own "Boogeyman"?
Why have we gotten so mean here?

Some days I barely recognize my beloved DU, and I take partial blame as many of us should. I can't believe I would almost long for the days of George W Bush when we seemed to be united against our common foe and enemy of true freedom everywhere despite his bullshit to the contrary.

Sure the Primaries were brutal around here and Im told I was lucky to have joined after the 2004 election. I know Im still nursing bruises from this one.

So we won. Yay team! Hoo fucking rah!!! Do we go back to sleep or even worse turn the guns on each other? Im ashamed to say Ive engaged in a bit of both. Im almost comfortably apathetic now, perhaps more relieved, and have tried to be patient, but then like an idiot I log in and start reading my favorite forum again and all I see is red.

The internets are bloody with our infamous Democratic Circular firing squad and the guns are well cleaned, oiled and their users still riding adrenaline from the kill.

I fully realize this is a private forum designed to support our Democratic representatives, but I cant believe that Skinner et al. really want to suppress any reasonable criticism of our new Presidents directions and there is no evidence they are engaged in that. There has been a rash of tombstonings even since the primes but those were, in my experience, justly executed trolls, of which there seems to be an infestation of lately.

No, as usual, the majority of the bloodletting has been from our distinguished members, some who seemed the best of allies in The Bush Years. Weve always been combative with each other, normally in constructive ways, but lately there just seems to be a darker cloud here. Were at each others throats. Very vile and hurtful and, to use a clich, Un-PC, comments and insults are being hurled at each other with alarming regularity. Is it just me seeing this?

Maybe its the hippie at heart in me but, peace, guys and gals. Can we put the flowers in the barrels of our rifles for awhile and agree to disagree on how our new President is doing without becoming generic internet assholes to each other?

Please help me to stop having to wish that we had our own Al Qaeda AKA George W Bush back to unite our community and once again make this forum a place for friends, activism for our Constitutional ideals, intriguing discussion and even love. Because, as anonymous as a forum might be for some of us it is a kind of family that has loved and supported some of us in ways we can never repay; and thats what family does, or is supposed to do anyway.

Yeah, families fight too, but no one likes it when they do.
Peace
-S
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well said shadow. While we're ranting I'd like to mention the following:
I have no problem with people of no religion, they most certainly are entitled to their beliefs or non-beliefs. However, these are pretty high holy days, especially today for both Christians and Jews. I'd appreciate it if the non-believers could dial it back a little on their comments. That's pretty much it. Let the snark and flames begin, I'm checking into the Masters tourney and let the rest of the world go by.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm as big a religious cynic as anyone but here's my only comment on Easter I'll make.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. hilarious!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. My computer took a shit for a week. Have I missed something?

I see left-wing infighting as a process. There are glaring inconsistancies within the left. They are starting to surface. As in workers rights vs DLC/Wall Street issues. I see a big fight coming over immigration. It's inconsistant to be for workers rights then throw those same workers under the bus for slave illegal immigrant labor. What will the Unions do? I know my head exploded yesterday when the media starting hinting that Obama was going to nationalize 12 million illegals. During all this job loss. WTF? I hope this is just a rumor because it's a really stupid idea. It would also put him back in question for being anti-left when it comes to MONEY! The Goldman Sachs/TARP/TALF/Geithner/Summers problem we don't need more of that right now. Labor crossing borders is Adam Smith part two. Just like "free-trade agreements. It's ALL Adam Smith. I never understand why certain people on the left don't get that.

The other fight could be gay marriage and the re-awakening of the Christian right. I'm not as worried about this as I used to be. The Christians voted to give Wall Street more power for the last 30 years. It kinda blows their image. "Jesus loves the money changers". They can't explain that away so they're going to try to change the subject back to the wedge issues. I don't think it will work this time. All we need are signs saying "Pro-life or Pro-Wall Street". The gig is up and they been exposed for the heretics they are. I think the game is over but we'll see. If they try it I'm ready. I'd like nothing better than to put the Christian right down for good. They're the fascist foot-soldiers and without them the GOP is nothing. Bring it on.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. We're looking forward, not back.
No justice, no peace.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I agree with you on most points left, but here at least, can't we have a little peace?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Maybe we need a peaceful forum somewhere at DU.
Really, I don't know what I have in common with some of Obama's zombie horde of blinkered supporters anymore. There is no Democratic principle that they respect more than the personality at the center of their cult.

With the daily outrages from Obama mounting nearly as fast as they did under bush, it's hard to know what subjects would be possible in such a "peaceful forum."

:shrug:
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. We could share recipes or something I suppose
Best party stories (as far as we can remember), music, art, writing. Oh yeah, we already have all those and they get 10 posts a day, maybe. Fuck it, maybe its just the human condition in it's rawest form. Anonymity can cause a "Lord of the Flies" type effect IMO.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. bingo!
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. sounds a little like the Lounge.
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Richd506 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I agree that we should always hold our leader's feet to the fire no matter who they are
But what you said right now is exactly the point that is being made in this post. I still like Obama and yet somehow that makes me a sheeple and a coward. I know you probably won't care what I have to say but I'm just saying. Don't be so outraged when people don't turn against Obama at the drop of a dime. They aren't your sheeple either.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. That kind of insulting language
is a BIG part of the problem.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Are the daily outrages really mounting as fast as Bush?
Or are there just outrage manufacturers with many willing buyers? It always seems to me that the outrage brigade finds 5% that is wrong and that is so terribly awfully wrong that it ruins everything.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. did you see the word "nearly"?
I reserve my outrage for a few important, basic things:

+ constitutionally guaranteed rights and civil liberties

+ war crimes and crimes against humanity

+ worker's rights and an economy and national infrastructure that allow my children to live well

+ planetary damage that won't recover from our rapacious ways



So far, I can't say he's doing so hot on the first three.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. Nice post, my brother !
Yes- people have been ripping each other to shreds for the past year.

Lots of nerves are so raw it doesn't take much to get tempers flaring these days......myself included.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I learned my lesson not to tussle with you
B-)
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I R Scary Scary !
hehehe ~smootch~
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. BTW found an old pentacle I used to wear, but lost, while we were moving
has to be a good omen right? Wearing it now. Also blessed the house with some sage and a candle and sealed the doors from negativity.

Sorry if I'm scaring the straights. Witches talking here.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Very good omen !
I bet things are going to turn around for you!

I also suggest leaving it out under the light from the full moon tonight to re-consecrate :)

~big hugs~

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Where is all this brutal fighting and bloodletting on DU?
:shrug:

I don't see it.

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I see more "apathy," than fighting...
but then I don't go to the "dungeons."
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Agree. I think the faux fights are started to counter the growing apathy
Just my opinion though
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. We formed as a united resistance against the powers that be.
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 12:27 PM by lumberjack_jeff
We have had the good fortune of having our candidate become that leader.

a) now what? In many ways the policy distinctions between the old boss and the new one (particularly in the economy, executive overreaching, civil rights, health care and the war) are too subtle for my tastes.
b) I don't speak cheerleader.
c) Those who are nursing bruises from the primary are the survivors. The operating primary rules were described in the Lord of the Flies. We lost dozens of good contributors, ostracized by the majority.

To some degree "the combat" is healthy. One of my problems with DU has always been doctrine. I have no desire to be tombstoned, but I'm here because the guiding principles of DU are consistent with my world view, not the reverse; I don't hold the opinions I do because the rules dictate it. I'm perfectly happy debating issues with those who (given the same facts) see the world differently. In fact, I think that's pretty much the whole point.

The left needs to put as much pressure on Obama as the right does. Granted, that pressure should take a different form, but we cannot simply shut up and hope for the best.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. +1
Glen Beck will bring us together!
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. well Shad- i think we've
had plenty of mean-ness at times here. And it hasn't always been reserved for 'the others'.
but I agree with you-
If we can't disagree without being assholes, then we are just another part of what is wrong.

I appreciate the way you've said this. And I hope we can all learn to treat each other better.
It has to start with each of us individually.

:grouphug:

i'm weary of all the anger- justified or not.

blu
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Shadow, no need to wish. They're back.
Karl Rove just snarled at Vice President Biden, openly and without shame. Dick Cheney is out of office, but supposedly gives advice and consent to a murder squad in the government. Glenn Beck is producing rants that make Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh look like rational citizens by comparison. The less crazy Republican Lie Machine keeps cranking out nonsense.

There is no reason to wish for Bush to come back. His buddies are here in force. Actually, Bush was little more than a drunken puppet. The real people of his administration are still cranking along. And the people BEHIND the people haven't been thrown out of their corporate offices.

There are still real enemies out there, although many people on DU seem to be unaware of them.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. DU is a healthy chaos, the glass is half full
Nance Greggs wrote a really good op a couple months ago praising DU for the lively debate necessary for a healthy democracy and recognized the coalescing of the community into sides on different issues. I tried to find it but couldn't.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. Greater tolerance for slight variances in opinion
would be helpful. For some time the attitude of a great many well-intentioned people here has been, "I'm right and you're a troll/a fascist/a racist/a homophobe if you disagree with even 1% of what I'm saying."

Big Tent, people...remember?

Hug for the OP! :grouphug:
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. Your posts are generally pretty awesome
And this one is no exception...

My only quibble is with your use of the word "well intentioned." I don't think that many of the folks throwing around some of the adjectives you mentioned have anything even close to resembling good intentions.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Wow, thanks!
And I do agree, some such people are not well-intentioned; just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Most are, I believe, committed liberals, but they tend to see things in black and white on some issues.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. It has been plumb awful
It really grinds my gears to see DUers treating each other like freepers, and that goes for both sides of the Obama-divide.

But you know, if you participated, you have been part of the problem. Everyone seems to feel that they need to participate at the same level of vitriol as their opponents, and that is where this community breaks down. The admonition to have thick skin has to do with people disgreeing with you, not slamming you upside the head with rhetorical morning stars.

If we want this community to remain healthy, we need to police our own and speak up when someone goes over the line. It will save the mods a lot of time if we put some negative pressure on those that just cannot help but to treat fellow DUers like punching bags.
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sansf Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
27. I am new here
and I too notice a lot of, uh, juvenile comments. Obama ran as a centrist. He is well funded by Wall St. He cannot do much but he will do nothing if we do not keep informed (reality, not wishful thinking), and save our energy to push back corporate everything.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. Intelligent people will disagree.
It's rare to see DU march in lockstep. For better or for worse, it is who we are.

And it's WAY better than the alternative.

:dem:

-Laelth
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. I thought either me or OMC was our boogeyman
:rofl:
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You could arm wrestle for it or something.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
33. Were you "here" in the '04 primaries?
WOOOOOOAH, they were scary!

DU is, like all communities, a conglomeration of folks who just like to hang out, have a brew, and argue. Where better? There's intelligence, wit, compassion, insanity, fun, jelly beans and popcorn!!

I love this place - and you're right - nothing, NOTHING like family.

DU?

:hug::grouphug::thumbsup::grouphug::hug:
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