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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 03:49 PM
Original message
TSA full body scanners, child porn?


So when they put a 7 year old kid through one of these things, Federal Marshals will be there to arrest the TSA employees for production of child pornography, right? By the governemnt's own definition, it would be child pornography.

I mean if a school administrator can be arrested for merely looking at a "sexting" picture and saving it to a hard drive as evidence, surely the TSA can be arrested as well. The school administrator by the way, was investigating the sexting issue at his school, the photo in question was of a girl who was wearing a towel topless and her arms covering her breasts.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I do not want TSA employees seeing me in that way through my clothes.
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 04:05 PM by JDPriestly
That is an invasion of privacy beyond belief.

I add further that this practice may be violate the religious beliefs or at least the religious sensibilities of some people.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. ACK!
For crying out loud, why don't they just have everyone strip off all their clothes! No way would I allow a scan like that!

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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I fly in and out of Tulsa a lot and the scanner
is all they've got. You do have the option of being "wanded" and patted down, but the scanner is definitely faster.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. So what?
I don't care what's faster, there's no way I'd allow anyone to scan me like that, period. I'm not getting a pat down either especially when they say they have the right to pat down your breasts and genital area. Fuck that. Good thing I don't fly.

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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Well then you won't fly. Sp What? n/t
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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Both my daughter and I were sent through one of these things.
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 04:11 PM by yy4me
She laughed it off but I was offended that my government feels the right to see me in my "nothings"
Me in Boston, she in Indianapolis on our return.

It is an invasion of privacy, I'm sure they can find another way. I suppose the only saving grace is that a woman was checking our scans. I assume they have a man do it for men. What a job for voyeurs.

Oh yea, forgot to mention, we were Told to go through, there was no option offered.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. where they seperating out genders... ?. was it only females going thru? i am curious
i am also offended and disgusted as a society we would allow. and to allow my child, my young daughter to go thru.... fuck i would have a tough time with that.
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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I was aghast that it was even happening and did not look back
to note if they were doing a mix of genders. You walked into the booth, they did their frontal zap and then had to turn sideways for a second zap. Not only was I offended but how good for you can this exposure to microwaves be? What if you travel frequently? Possibility of lots of zaps.

In both airports, we were not given an option, it was,"step over here please.
I would like to know what would happen if you said no?
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The system opens itself up to all sorts of abuse.
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 04:15 PM by arcadian
Wasn't it TSA employees going through peoples luggage and taking choice items like cameras, etc.?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. i just cannot believe we are friggin allowing ourselves to be done this way
i see it as such an abuse.
i have stopped all flyin.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Saw that one coming the minute they said it would be
'optional'. Figured that by optional they actually meant 'if you want to make your flight'.

bug*er.
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. One more nail in the coffin of the airline industry

Full Body Security Scans Coming to McCarran Airport
by Heather on June 11th, 2008

<...>

The first scanner was installed at the Phoenix, Arizona airport in April, and ten more are set to roll out over the next month - and one of those is McCarran Airport here in Las Vegas. (A few of the remaining will be at Reagan National and Baltimore-Washington International Airports in Washington; Dallas; Albuquerque; Miami and Detroit.)

<...>

The scanning booths close around the passenger and emit millimeter waves that go through cloth to identify metal, plastics, ceramics, chemical materials and explosives, according to the TSA. But theyre also high tech enough to clearly see passengers private areas and other parts of their bodies, though the TSA says the faces are obscured.

Theyre also quick to assure the public that there is no way for the officers to record, print, transmit or save the images (note that they say the officers wont be able to do this, but they dont say it cant be done at all because if they need evidence for prosecution purposes how else are they going to get it? Then again, theyre supposedly not scanning faces, so how are they going to prove whos who?), and that the image is quickly and permanently erased from the screen (no mention of the hard drive) after being viewed by TSA personnel in an enclosed room (will they be checked for cameras or other recording devices before each shift?).

http://www.thelasvegasadventurer.com/full-body-security-scans-coming-to-mccarran-airport/



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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. "no way for the officers to record, print, transmit or save the images"
Clearly they save every single image, otherwise what's the point? Oh we had pictures for this big terrorist high-jacking case but they are gone because though we are unscrupulous enough to look at naked passengers, we draw the line at actually saving the images. Yeeeeeeeah, right.

Plus, what's to stop Johnnie Pederast, TSA employee from taking a pic with his cell phone camera?
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DKRC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. And the photo in OP puts the lie to that claim
or there wouldn't be an image to reassure the public with ~ not that it reassures me in any way.

We won't be flying.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. And once you realize the powerful ones behind the scenes aren't even looking for "terrorists"...
This BS looks even worse...especially for all those who needlessly suffer at the hands of airport security goons who believe the bullshit and think they're actually "rooting out evil" or helping out Big Brother or whatever...
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. This on Slate today.
Deeper Digital Penetration
The expanding invasion of the naked body scanners.
By William Saletan Posted Wednesday, April 8, 2009, at 7:43 AM ET

When we first checked in on them two years ago, the scanners, which see through clothing, were being deployed at a single airport. A few months later, they were upgraded to millimeter-wave technology, which delivered similar images with even less radiation"10,000 times less than a cell phone transmission," according to the Transportation Security Administration. At the time, TSA assured us that the scanners would be used only as a "voluntary alternative" to "a more invasive physical pat-down during secondary screening." Only a few passengers, the ones selected for extra scrutiny, would face the scanners. The rest of us could walk through the metal detectors and board our planes.

Surprise! Two months ago, TSA revised its position. It began testing millimeter-wave scans "in the place of the walk-through metal detector at six airports." At these airports, everyonenot just people selected for secondary screeningwould face the see-through machines. Anyone who objected would "undergo metal detector screening and a pat-down." You might even get the "enhanced pat-down," which includes "sensitive areas of the body that are often used by professional testers and terrorists," such as "the breast and groin areas of females and the groin area of males." Show us your body, or we'll feel you up.

Now the plan is going nationwide. Joe Sharkey of the New York Times reports that TSA "plans to replace the walk-through metal detectors at airport checkpoints with whole-body imaging machinesthe kind that provide an image of the naked body." All passengers will "go through the whole-body imager instead of the walk-through metal detector," according to TSA's chief technology officer, and the machines will begin operating soon after orders are placed this summer.
<snip>
http://www.slate.com/id/2215687/


Frankly, I would prefer the pat-down - if the TSA twit got grabby, at least I could file a complaint. How do you complain about a couple of sniggering low-life's locked in their own private porn palace? And I looked at the itty bitty thumbnails on the TSA website . . . if I can see butt crack, belly button, and muscle definition in those tiny images, they are showing way too much.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I wonder how large L3 Communications contract is with TSA.
They are gonna make a ton of $$$.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. No kidding.
Guess the investors will be happy . . .

I'm not. Leaving for London from McCarran in June. What a choice - invasive pat down or a virtual strip search.

I wonder if there's a drug you can take to make you paranoid enough to think this sort of thing is 'worth it' for safety?
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
40. There probably is but it's not legal yet ...
> I wonder if there's a drug you can take to make you paranoid enough
> to think this sort of thing is 'worth it' for safety?

... so possession of it will entitle you to the free cavity search option ...


:think:
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. It is impossible to demand that ALL passengers
"go through the whole-body imager". What about people in wheelchairs? Are we not allowed to fly any longer? That's a hell of a lot of metal being "imaged". I thought that was unsafe.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. I wish you the best - I'm sure they're cooking up something
extra special for folks in wheelchairs. Wands with special probes or something . . .
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. She might want to get that mole by her armpit looked at
:shrug:
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
37. that's the obligitory American flag lapel pin
I'll try to remember to salute it before they ask me to bend over.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Next up, required full body cavity searches for all passengers,
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 04:59 PM by Uncle Joe
bring lots of lubricant.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. I see a phaser, a communicator, a tricorder, and a neutronium shielded anti-matter bomb.
Her ears are sorta pointy too.

Take her down, she's obviously a Romulan Terrorist!

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why is the ACLU not suing over this?
I want Napolitano to cancel this bullshit on the grounds of invasion of privacy.

What if I gave them the finger as I went through it? Or wrote "fuck you TSA" on my body beforehand? because that is the only way I would do this.

They claim that the people viewing this are offsite and there is no way to save the images but I think that is a lie. They said this would only be optional; now apparently you do not have a choice.

So, fuck the fascists at the TSA and our new administration that will not apparently stop this travesty.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. I got scanned yesterday. The TSA guy saw my winkie, I'm sure, because .....
.... as I went through he had these wide eyes and said "whooooaaaa!"

Next time, I may tape paper clips to my ass to form the words "bite me"
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. If sending a naked picture of yourself to your boyfriend is child porn when you're a teen
Then someone forcibly taking a picture of your naked body should also be child porn.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. are these in all the airports?! oh noez nt
:(
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I know the new Indianapolis airport uses them
I would imagine they will be installed around the country soon.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. I gave up flying a long time ago because of shit like this.



And it may be why the airlines are going broke, because others don't think it's worth it any more.

True, some sort of security is needed, but I just don't care to be part of it any more.


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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. HOLD ON A MINUTE--
This is an image of a middle-aged woman. It's not a young, nubile girl woman. But what is the difference in terms of privacy? And where are the middle aged or old men in this picture?

We have some deep cultural norms to overcome.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. where are the middle aged or old men in this picture? .. never never
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 06:17 PM by seabeyond
i do wonder how she feels, a couple years of this picture on net, all her co workers knows it is her. i wonder if she thought this thru or really not even bothered.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Here is a name to match that full body scan.
TSAs Security Lab Head, Susan Hallowell

http://www.slate.com/id/2160977/pagenum/all/

"Psssst. Want to see Susan Hallowell naked? Look at the Feb. 24 New York Times. She's on Page A10.

Hallowell runs the Transportation Security Administration's research lab. Four years ago, she volunteered to be scanned by a backscatter X-ray machine, which sees through clothing. She was wearing a skirt and blazer. But in the picture, she's as good as nude."

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. w/ clothes and hair
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 04:43 AM by Snazzy




I note that she seems to packing a gun on her left (our right) but because of the black background and metal also showing up as black, it's really easy to miss.

So:

show people without their clothes--machine works pretty good.
show guns hidden on a person--machine doesn't work too good.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hey, children might need a little help being acclimated to this sort of treatment...
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. Pardon me, but this 53 year old doesn't want to be body scanned!
It's a horrid invasion of anyone's body, be they child or adult.

It's disgusting!

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nilram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
35. went through one of these a couple months ago
it was a long day, and I thought it was one of those "sniffers" that would blow air around and check for explosives. Raleigh, NC, airport. Only afterward did I realize what it was. There were signs about the option of being physically searched -- I would have preferred that if I had clued into what was going on.

TSA stands for fear and intimidation -- training the masses (us) to live in fear and put up with intimidation.
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nilram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
36. and I thought they were supposed to blur the face?
This woman's face doesn't look blurred to me. TSA themselves say the face is supposed to be blurred, on this blog posting,

http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2008/05/you-asked-for-ityou-got-it-millimeter.html

We specifically require the remote location to protect the privacy of passengers using the machine. We just dont think its appropriate for other passengers, airport, airline employees or just anybody walking by to see the images, much less snap a photo with a camera phone or anything else and post that image to TMZ.com or who knows where. Thats also why officers are not allowed to bring anything, including phones, bags or other items into the remote viewing location.


(emphasis added)

To ensure they aren't carrying cellphones or cameras into the remote viewing area, I wonder if officers have to go through a millimeter wave scanner?

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
39. they put one in az and waited for uproar. it didnt come. put four more out waiting for the outrage
from the people, but people cowed, tail between legs and followed as was told

they set themselves up, waiting to pull them out

and people shrugged
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
41. AAAHHHH! Looks like an alien!
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