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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:07 PM
Original message
'If life aint worth living anymore don't just Kill yourself....Go Kill Liberals!'


Eric Boehlert vivisects the Beck/Jones phenomenon:


http://mediamatters.org/columns/200904070009?f=h_top


I wonder if Glenn Beck knows who Jim Adkisson is. Adkisson made headlines on July 28, 2008, when he brought his sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, and, after whipping it out of a guitar case, opened fire on parishioners while a group of schoolchildren performed songs up by the altar. Adkisson killed two people and wounded several others.

Adkisson, a 58-year-old unemployed truck driver, brought 70 shotgun shells with him to the church and assumed he'd keep killing until the police arrived on the scene and shot him dead as well. Instead, some members of the congregation were able to wrestle him to the ground and hold him for police.

When investigators went to Adkisson's home in search of a motive, as well as evidence for the pending trial, they found copies of Savage's Liberalism is a Mental Disorder, Let Freedom Ring by Sean Hannity, and The O'Reilly Factor, by Fox News' Bill O'Reilly. They also came across what was supposed to have been Adkisson's suicide note: a handwritten, four-page manifesto explaining his murderous actions. The one-word answer for his deed? Hate. The three-word answer? He hated liberals.

The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just Kill yourself. Do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals!

What Adkisson especially hated about liberals ("this cancer, this pestilence") and what he hated about candidate "Osama Hussein Obama" was that they were marching America toward ruin: "Liberals are evil, they embrace the tenets of Karl Marx, they're Marxist, socialist, communists." Adkisson seethed over the way liberals were "trying to turn this country into a communist state" and couldn't comprehend why they would "embrace Marxism."

Sound familiar, Glenn?

John Bohstedt was one of the Unitarian church members who tackled Adkisson after the first round of gunfire went off inside the sanctuary. Two months ago, Adkisson pleaded guilty to the murder charges and was sentenced to life in prison. At the hearing, Bohstedt told the Associated Press he didn't think the killer had been insane, but rather had been manipulated by anti-liberal rhetoric.

"There are a lot of people who hate liberals, and if we stir that around in the pot and on the airwaves, eventually there will be people (like Adkisson) ... who get infected by the violent rhetoric and put it into violent action," Bohstedt said.

He remained worried about future violence: "Do you think there are other Jim Adkissons out there listening to hate speech? I do."

Me too.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. People like Beck, Coulter, will never admit they are responsible.
But I think deep down, the crazies they inspire are doing exactly what they want them to do.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The upside is
when our side finally has had enough, they will probably regret having started this.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The Secret Service needs to pay Beck and his ilk a nice little visit
and lay it out for them. They are inciting others to violence and will ultimately be held accountable for it. Look how they got McCain to back off on the Muslim rhetoric. The SS and other law enforcement agencies need to get involved. The violence is escalating and the voices of Fox, are gleefully fanning the flames.

Or, not even mess with Beck, etc. and just have a nice session with Roger Ailes and Ruppert Murdoch.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Dick Cheney's secret squad need to pay a visit to Beck.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I'm sure Darth likes what Beck is saying
and wants to see the loonies fired up.
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Butch350 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
81. I thought Cheney and Beck shared the same views??
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. Ailes and Murdoch...there you have it.
Who was profiting the most from making the election look like a horse-race?

Now that the horse race is over, they've got to keep the pot stirred ratings numbers up somehow...

Stir up the wingnuts...and if they lose it and go rampaging out on a killing spree in the process, terrific!
If it bleeds, it leads! Ratings are through the roof!
,
well, that's unfortunate, but some people just aren't wrapped too tightly and they come unhinged easily.
That's not their fault, is it?

:sarcasm:
:grr: :nuke:
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No More Bushbots Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
38. Why?
They'll just claim that their right to free speech is being supressed by the Libruls.
The best thing would be to quietly pick them up, place them on a plane to an undisclosed concentration camp to receive a little enhanced interrogation technique.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
63. They have no information to give.
They're evil bastards who care only about their own bottom line. If they could make money rallying the libruls they'd be doing that instead. Money is their ideology and they'll go the way that fattens their bank accounts the most.
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. This is what Limbaugh and Beck instigate. n/t
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R nt
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
5.  I happened upon "Savage Nation" after the Red Sox win and holy cow! Not only

did he go on about the Obama pics with the troops were not with REAL combat troops ("they hate Obama") but he and several callers joked about what SHOULD
happen (if only the pesky FBI wouldn't show up at your door) was for Obama to be "taken out." Now, I'm no linguist, but that sounds to me like the Secret Service should be
checking in on Michael Savage and explain how freedom of speech vs. threatening the president's life works...
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. you're right about that. I am astounded that some
of these people haven't already been indicted for incitement to violence. To me this is the issue--not the 2nd amendment.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. During Bush's years in office, the SS and FBI jumped all over even
innocuous remarks nowhere near as threatening as that.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. how is this not terrorism?
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. you should have reported him
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. I did report it to the FBI's tip line. link:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just like how our govt brainwashes the young into supporting and killing/dying for false causes
Only on a much, much smaller scale.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well put.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
46. Great point
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
51. Yes... but it's not just our government... our society still loves war.
We are still so very primitive in so many ways.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. I wondering if those "entertainers" could be linked to the crimes in anyway
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
58. I live in Knoxville and I have heard (thought cannot prove) that
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 11:50 AM by Kalyke
suing the authors of the rightwing books found in Adkisson's house is being looked at.

I don't know any more than that - but I can find out. My county commissioner, who happens to be one of my former J-School instructors, is a member of that church. I can email him and see what he's heard.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's irresponsible
for any major network to give a platform to people who validate the inner fears and hatreds of paranoid people. I'm all for free speech but just because you can say something doesn't mean you should.

Is this akin to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater? Free speech doesn't go so far as to endorse that. In a way the Becks and Limbaughs do just that. They ratchet up the paranoia and validate it. It's a fine and dangerous line they walk.

For all the talk that Republicans give to the 'personal responsibilty' mantra, I would like some of them to take a hard look at what responsibility they play in fanning the flames of fear with people who don't have the common sense or intelligence to think for themselves.
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. He forgot to kill *himself*.. dumbass couldn't even follow his own manifesto..n/t
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. In all fairness, he didn't intend to come out of that alive. He was subdued.
Guess he didn't imagine that liberals could have courage. Mad props for the people who tackled him. Certainly, many more would die if not for them.
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ronatchig Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. I keep hoping that
one of the poor survivors of the attack in Knoxville will get some attorneys on suing the ass off
not only the traitorous talking heads but also their corporate enablers.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. The way to kill hate radio is to bust up big media.
Guys like Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity would get a tiny franction of their current exposure if they had to compete on their own merits. What we've got is an enormous corporate media machine that essentially subsidizes this kind of talk, because they promote a pro-corporate, pro-uber wealthy ideology. Break up the massive media conglomerates and hate radio will become a tiny, ridiculed portion of the market.
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Z_I_Peevey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Absolutely! nt
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
50. Yeah, but it's not a sexy issue.
It isn't on people's minds like trying to get food or save their houses. And it doesn't arouse passion like freeway tolls or sex education in schools. And that means, no matter how essential it may e, it ain't gonna get done.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. These guys are the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
'...a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.'

Please, please, please...
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corruptmewithpower Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Could YOU be one of those Jim Adkissons?
"Do you think there are other Jim Adkissons out there listening to hate speech?"
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Either you didn't understand me or I don't understand you.
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corruptmewithpower Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I may have misunderstood, just noticed the quote marks.
Please excuse me if I erred.
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Ticonderoga Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Yes, you obviously erred. n/t
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Zappa? Hitchhiker?
Sirius Cybernetics sounds sooo familiar.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. The memory is the first thing to go..... *sigh*
I need to dust off my old Douglas Adams books and reread them.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. The first two books (Hitchhiker's Guide and Restaurant at the End of the Universe)
are the really good ones.

After that, a lot of the funny is kind of used up.

(Although book three -- Life, the Universe and Everything -- has a hilarious scene where Arthur meets a being that he's been accidentally killing in life after life after life.)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
52. Heh.
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 11:12 AM by redqueen
Nice reference.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. So it didn't have anything to do with depression, losing his job, his wife leaving him...
after she started attending the TVUUC. I think there may be a little more to it.

David
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. In this case, I don't think those are immediate factors.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/28/jim-d-adkisson...

This account pretty much agrees with the view that he killed out of hatred of liberals, gays, etc.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
69. I'm sure his hatred was long lived.
Losing his job and his wife were fairly recent events. His ex-wife was the connection to the church. I'm just saying it was a combination of factors.

David
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Aw, sorry we're speaking badly of your friends.
Not.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. I actually do have some friends in that church, thanks.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
65. of course it did - take a combination of circumstances, wind him up
with hate radio, and point him at his targets.

With the collapsing economy, it will only get worse before it gets better. Hate radio provides somebody he can blame for his own failings, and they are COUNTING on it.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Thanks for agreeing with me.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. If you feel better validated by think so...
If you feel better validated by think so, feel free. We all need a good dose of self-validation every once in a while, even if we need to resort to misinterpretation to do it.

(You thank people for agreeing with you? That's a bit odd. "I like apples better than oranges?" Oh really? Me too!" "Thanks for validating my opinions...!" Weird stuff these days, really weird stuff.)
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. I think it's foolish to think that the other factors had nothing to do with the attack.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. I think it's foolish to think this would have happened
But I specifically used the word catalyst. I myself think it's foolish (no... not foolish, merely boorish) to think this would have happened precisely the same way without the cheerleaders of AM Radio.

I'm sure his heart rate had something to do with it. I'm sure the last words he ever heard his grandfather say had something to do with it. I'm sure the present he received for his third birthday had something to do with it. It's all a matter of degrees, I suppose. Yet there's usually one thing, and one thing only that pushes someone over the edge and into the abyss.

And it seems obvious from his own pen what that one thing was. He wrote what that one thing was-- from his hands to paper. Hatred for Liberals. He didn't write about hatred for his wife, or his boss. He wrote of Hatred for Liberal.

Hence, I think it's it's a valid presumption to attribute a large part and parcel of the original authors of that hate to his actions.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Why did he hate liberals?
Perhaps it was because his wife left him after she started attending a liberal church and what he heard on the radio. I never said talk radio wasn't part of it, I simply pointed out that there are some other factors.

David
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. I imagine it's because the radio talk show
I imagine it's because the radio talk show hosts have made an industry out of telling people to hate liberals.

Let me reiterate-- of course there are other factors: from his birth to his his first date to the day he discovered the internet.

Which of those factors are fundamentally irrelevant and which are not is I believe, the critical question. And I think that Hate radio was the most prevalent, most enabling factor which consistently and constantly reinforced the hatred he was instructed to have. Maybe you don't believe that-- no big deal. :shrug:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Perhaps.
I believe the more personal experiences in his life were probably more of a factor. Surely he blamed the liberals for convincing his wife to leave him after she started attending that liberal church, I think that was probably the biggest factor.


David
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Beck, Limbaugh, Coler, et al. are counting on it
I truly believe that They are counting on it

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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Plutocrat's manifesto... Divide and Conquer
Their machine is well oiled and in full production. With the greasing coming from the the slime merchants of the GOP -- Rush, Coulter, Rove, Beck, etc. -- all the Plutocrats need to do is watch from the rails of their yachts as we devolve into an immobile, hateful, distracted citizenry.

I believe we are in for some very turbulent times in the near future.



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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just think back the Palin rallies. She was doing all she could to bring out anger.
Why do they want to hate and kill ~ and then go to church every
Sunday morning?

They are freaks that believe they are better, they know better than anyone else.

And these are the people that Palin and Beck and Hannity and Limpig all cater to.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
85. Excellent point
Palin started talking about how Obama "doesn't see America as you and I see America" and she said Obama was "paling around with terrorists."

As soon as she starting saying those things, nasty videos started surfacing of her supporters making extremely xenophobic and racist comments at McCain/Palin rallies. People were shouting "kill him" in reference to Obama.

The anger was palpable. I remember it like it was yesterday.
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Sheltiemama Donating Member (892 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Dr. Bohstedt was my Western Civ professor at UT.
I live in Knoxville and couldn't believe it when his name came up the day of the shooting as one of the men who disarmed the shooter. He was a great teacher, too.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Funny how the CONs never explained how a bunch of cowardly America-hating liberals
ran directly into the line of fire to overpower a gunman with a 12 guage.

Aren't we always supposed to just "sing Kumbaya" whenever we're facing violent attack?

This paradox seems not to trouble our right-wing neighbors . . .
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
67. Pardon my French
But those were moral and truly fuckin' courageous people. Not some piece of shit all twisted up with hate and stupidity.
The good guys win because a pure heart and mind run faster and stronger, without hesitation or false moves. They are literally using a faster part of the brain.

Look at an astronaut, a race driver, a good soldier - most are genuinely good people, because a "good heart" is that_much of an advantage when it comes to reflexes, strategy, and courage.

It's a world most neoroyalists (aka neocons) and their ilk can't even fathom.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-08-09 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is why I oppose gun bans
Edited on Wed Apr-08-09 06:45 PM by Juche
If any violent wingnut comes after me I'd gladly blow his brains out in self defense. I'm not giving up control of my democracy to the most violent, totalitarian 20% of the public.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
43. Yah, if only those wussy Unitarians had been PACKING in their pews! All those
churchgoers blasting away at the man with the shotgun; probably none of the kids in the front of the church singing would have been hurt or killed...
They actually took down the shooter with... wait for it...courage. They were armed with...the will to act.

Toting a gun for self defense always seems sensible on paper, but in the real world it seldom works out that way. .03% actually. Of the nearly 30,000 gun
deaths per year only about 400 were actual attempts at "self defense."

More guns=more gun deaths. Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths. It ain't rocket science. (It's gun happy America)

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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. correction: .3%
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
78. Where did you get your stats
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 09:48 PM by Juche
I have heard 2 million defensive uses of guns each year, not 400. But alot of the research seems to be done by organizations trying to convince the reader to agree with the organization's opinions, so I'm guessing both are misleading.

I'm not advocating bringing guns to church, if that is the impression people get. But I'm not going to passively sit by if a growing army of militant wingnuts talks about assaulting liberals and starts to act on it. All they did was lose the last election a few months ago and they have already started endless talk about assassination and overthrowing the government.

You guys seem to me like you underestimate what a threat to democracy authoritarian right wingers can be.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. 400 deaths from self defending out of 30,000 gun deaths each year. My stats are
from CDC and DOJ

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

As for your statement, "you underestimate what a threat to democracy authoritarian right wingers can be." I'm pretty sure any of us that have lived thru the last few decades of
authoritarian right wing administrations, -going back to Nixon and Reagan - have a real clear idea what a ' threat to democracy' they can be.


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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
82. Watch "Bowling for Columbine" (NT)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
49. Do you normally carry a gun to church?
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
77. No but
Do you normally criticize people when they say they will fight to defend their democracy from violent wingnuts?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. How is it criticism?
This guy killed people at CHURCH. You said you would defend yourself with your gun from such an attack. Well, if it happens and you are at church, as these victims were, how would you defend yourself if you hadn't carried your gun to church?

Seems simple enough.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
39. CNN's Lou Dobbs is also starting to push the "gun" button when he says "Obama wants your guns!"
I can believe Faux News would allow this - that is what they breed on, but CNN? The place for the "truth"? Yeah right. Even after Candidate Obama has said over and over he will not take their guns away!

This was from CNN Lou Dobbs in Jan. 2009:

CNN- Obama To BAN Guns SPREAD THIS FOLKS, PLZ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vKfL2ETnF8

And check this out:

Obama: Im Not Going to Take Your Guns Away
Christopher Cooper reports from Duryea, Pa., on the presidential race.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/05/obama-im-not-g... /

The Obama campaign talks a lot about new ideas and expanding the political map, but in the swing state of Pennsylvania, which the campaign has focused on almost exclusively since the Democratic convention, old-school issues still rise to the fore.

The latest example came Friday during a small political event at SCHOTT North America Inc., a glass factory in Duryea, Pa., where even a hand-picked crowd threw Barack Obama a curve ball.

A woman in the crowd told Obama she had heard a rumor that he might be planning some sort of gun ban upon being elected president. Obama trotted out his standard policy stance, that he had a deep respect for the traditions of gun ownership but favored measures in big cities to keep guns out of the hands of gang bangers and drug dealers in big cities who already have them and are shooting people.

If youve got a gun in your house, Im not taking it, Obama said. But the Illinois senator could still see skeptics in the crowd, particularly on the faces of several men at the back of the room.

So he tried again. Even if I want to take them away, I dont have the votes in Congress, he said. This cant be the reason not to vote for me. Can everyone hear me in the back? I see a couple of sportsmen back there. Im not going to take away your guns.

.........

What is it going to take for these sleezy nut bags to get off this! Yelling fire in a crowded room is unlawful but these idiots can fire up the radical right every single day and get away with it!

:grr:
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
40. Wikipedia documents the details regarding Adkisson's motivation, sources
Motivations

Adkisson, a former private in the United States Army from 1974 to 1977, says that he was motivated by hatred of liberalism and by extension homosexuality.<7><1><8> According to a sworn affidavit by one of the officers who interviewed Adkisson on July 27, 2008:<2>
During the interview Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office. Adkisson stated that he had held these beliefs for about the last ten years.

...

The following books were found in Adkisson's home during a police search:<8>

* Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by radio talk show host Michael Savage
* Let Freedom Ring: Winning the War of Liberty over Liberalism by talk show host Sean Hannity
* The O'Reilly Factor: The Good, the Bad, and the Completely Ridiculous in American Life by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly

In his letter, Adkisson also included the Democratic members of the House and Senate,<10> and the 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America <10> of Bernard Goldberg in his list of wished-for targets.

More...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Univer...
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
42. Yep. We need hate control, not gun control.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. It would help. But then so would (more) gun control. (You know, the 'gun show loophole')
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Not really. Anyone who wants a gun can get one immediately.
Gun shows or no gun shows.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #42
84. The same mentality that profits from war
is the same mentality that profits from hate. The hate and war mongers appeal to the weakest among us. Remember that old Bob Dylan line. "When you ain't got nothing you got nothing to lose."
The hate/war mongers sell violence as the answer to all problems.
Think about Beck's "We Surround Them" campaign. He's telling them that they are really the majority, and most Americans approve of violence against those of us who see the world through a different prism, thus justifying misguided hatred and wars of all stripes.
The video/audio clips of Beck indicate a real mental disorder. This says quite a bit about his fan base.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. I published a related article last fall.
It's long and kind of lame, but if you'd like to read it, here it is in full:

Congressional Quarterbag: Gun-toting Nazi Lemmings


There is a delicious irony in the fact that one of the most important insights into American politics was inadvertently revealed by the Bush Administration.

Apparently without the knowledge of the higher-ups, the National Science Foundation funded a psychological study which was published by the American Psychological Association in 2003 as the paper, "Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition," by Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, and Sulloway.

That paper built upon a long series of previous papers published since the 1950s on the study of "right-wing authoritarianism" (RWA), a subject of much interest in the wake of the fascist movements throughout Europe in the 1920s and 1930s, which in turn led directly to World War II.

The right-wing authoritarian is very much alive and well in America, and statistically identifiable. When John Dean examined the mystery of President Bush's thirty-percent "basement" of approval below which he rarely drops, statisticians explained to him that 23 percent of all Americans are right-wing authoritarians whose approval of this President will never waver (the remainder of his approval is explained by the less-than ten percent of Americans who are getting filthy rich off of Bush's policies, but even those supporters have withered away in recent months). A recent study showed that 76 percent of Americans feel America is ready for a black president. RWAs can easily account for almost all of those who don't.

The right-wing authoritarian exhibits behaviors almost too hilarious to countenance, until one recalls that they're running the country. They're recognized by faulty reasoning (including espousal of contradictory ideas like support for the death penalty and opposition to abortion); hostility to outgroups (such as ethnic and religious minorities); an array of character attributes such as dogmatism, zealotry, absolutism, hypocrisy, and bullying; and an inability to recognize one's personal failings and the failings of the leaders they follow.

Or, as John Dean described it, they're "over the cliff" followers, like goose-stepping lemmings. They're also extremely hostile to attacks on their world-view, which should make the mailbag entertaining.

RWA leaders are double winners of the social lottery, because in addition to their belief system, they're also high scorers on social dominance tests. One previous study of American and Canadian legislators found the following:

"High RWA lawmakers also score higher in prejudice, and wish they could pass laws limiting the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right of assembly, and other freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. They want to impose strict limitations on abortion, they favor capital punishment, and they oppose tougher gun control laws."

The paper by Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, and Sulloway endeavors to discover why conservatives return over and over to these core issues. Their study indicates that the motivating factors behind conservatism are surprisingly familiar to anyone who watched Karl Rove work his evil magic on the masses.

The study proposes that political conservatism has its roots in two environmental stimuli: fear and uncertainty.

Creating these two stimuli are a central chapter of the Rove play book. After Tom Ridge left the Department of Homeland Security, he confessed that it was not he or his Department which was arbitrarily raising and lowering the "terror-o-meter" to Code Orange throughout his tenure, particularly in election years:

"More often than not we were the least inclined to raise itSometimes we disagreed with the intelligence assessment. Sometimes we thought even if the intelligence was good, you don't necessarily put the country on (alert). ... There were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said, 'For that?' " (USA Today , 10 May 2005)

The reason why a climate of fear was created rests in what happens to conservatives when confronted with these two stimuli. They create nine identifiable motivations to the right-wing authoritarian, described by Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, and Sulloway:

1) Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity. (Defining the "Axis of Evil.")

2) Uncertainty avoidance. (Iraqis may be our enemy, so it's best to destroy them.)

3) Need for order, structure, and closure. ("Mission Accomplished.")

4) Self esteem. ("They hate us for our freedoms.")

5) Loss prevention. (The doctrine of "preemptive war.")

6) Terror management. (In this case, a response to fear of death, not the neoconservative relationship with actual terrorists discussed in previous CQ articles.)

7) Rationalization of self-interest. (For the above reasons, getting filthy rich off of invading Iraq is a good idea.)

8) Group-based dominance. (Our God is better than yours, and so forth.)

9) System justification. (We're still winning that war that we won in 2003.)

The result of these nine motivations is political conservatism. Couched deeply in the ideology are two final, easily identifiable results: endorsement of inequality and resistance to change. These two concepts are richly embodied in a simple phrase familiar to virtually everyone in the American South: "keeping down." That's what conservatism is all about: keeping down the blanks so they can't do to you what only you are actually doing.

The evil genius of the neoconservatives is seen in the discovery that right-wing conservatism rides on a sliding scale of fear and uncertainty: the more of both that you have, the more conservatives you have. They don't just spring from the cabbage leaf as conservatives. Conservatives can be temporarily created if otherwise reasonable people are scared enough.

Do you think you might be a conservative? According to a recent study published by political scientist John Hibbing in the journal Science, people who are easily startled tend to be conservatives. Shown frightening pictures and subjected to loud noises, those who visibly flinched tended to also ring the RWA chimes.

Still another study approaching publication by Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler, reported on in the Washington Post, shows RWAs at work. Delving into the time-tested political adage, "you can't get ahead of a good smear," they found that people of all political stripes could be affected by political disinformation. But conservatives in particular do something truly astounding: if someone attempts to refute the disinformation they are being fed, they are almost twice as likely to believe the disinformation!

In other words, when confused with conflicting information, RWAs return to the authoritarian sources they trust--the ones who are lying to them.

So, by playing on their fears and shouting out outrageous untruths, Right Wing Authoritarians can be programmed, by Fox News and the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, and by the right-wing schutzstaffeln on the AM radio dial. In fact, the entire mainstream American news media is complicit in creating an alternate reality in which the right-wing authoritarian thinks he lives.

The Washington Post article which describes the study by Nyhan and Reifler is a nice example of subtle programming itself. The article is front-loaded with an example of Democrats also being snookered by political disinformation, but there is a huge difference: when the bullshit is exposed, fewer Democrats support the bullshit, which is just the opposite of what Republicans do.

Not even harsh personal experience can unravel the ideology of some right-wing authoritarians.

In Knoxville, Tennessee in July, Jim David Adkisson killed two Unitarian churchgoers and wounded seven others before being disarmed and subdued by the congregation. He told lawmen that "all liberals should be killed," according to one investigator's notes.

In Adkisson's surreal world, it is the liberals who are "ruining the country," aided by the liberal media. (It's worth noting that during George Bush's malevolent tenure the Democrats have never controlled the Senate by more than one vote, and that one vote, Joe Lieberman, is busy campaigning for Republican Presidential candidate John McCain.)

What CNN failed to mention in its blessedly brief coverage of the event, and which virtually no major news source other than the Knoxville News Sentinel mentioned on July 28, was that when Adkisson's home was searched investigators found three books: Liberalism Is a Mental Health Disorder, by Michael Savage, Let Freedom Ring by Sean Hannity, and The O'Reilly Factor, by the vibrator-using Papa Bear himself.

Adkisson was a truck driver down on his luck, no doubt thanks to our Texas oilmen leaders and their fine foreign and economic policies, and he apparently flew into a rage when he discovered his food stamps were about to be discontinued. Seriously. I can't make this kind of shit up.

So naturally, Adkisson found a church that dares to welcome gay worshippers, and shot it up.

And this is only the beginning. There are many millions of right-wing authoritarians still in the process of losing their treadmill battles against blossoming mortgages, credit card debt, and rewritten bankruptcy laws. Unless the election is stolen again, chances are they'll have an African-American President to look to as their misery compounds. How many of them will pop off like Adkisson? How many of them will line up behind the first jingoistic fascist who dares to offer a final solution against proponents of tolerance and rational thought?

Like it or not, we're about to find out.

It wouldn't be fair at all to conclude this article without pointing out something which really shouldn't need to be said: right wing authoritarians are not bad people at all. They are our family members and friends. The politicians they follow often excepted, they are among the first to volunteer to serve our country--an exceptionally brave thing to do in light of the fear which drives them. Many are outstanding members of their communities and their churches. They are our fellow Americans.

The people who are bad are the ones who have taken advantage of these citizens. It would be a boring world indeed if we enjoyed freedom from fear, but nobody deserves to be manipulated through fear, a tactic the Republican leadership has turned into a fine art. We must call out these tactics for what they are: dishonest, despicable, and--dare I day it?--un-American.
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Shoedogg Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. This is so not "kind of lame"
I thought that was a really good piece. And maybe even a better read now after the election. I mean:

"And this is only the beginning. There are many millions of right-wing authoritarians still in the process of losing their treadmill battles against blossoming mortgages, credit card debt, and rewritten bankruptcy laws. Unless the election is stolen again, chances are they'll have an African-American President to look to as their misery compounds. How many of them will pop off like Adkisson? How many of them will line up behind the first jingoistic fascist who dares to offer a final solution against proponents of tolerance and rational thought?"

I don't know that it would be possible to have been more insightful than this.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
53. I lived in Florida, TN and Ca
and I have to say South East TN has some very ignorant people, there are also some incredibly smart people but the ignorant ones are the most ignorant people I've met. And there are far too many of them. The key here is education we have some of the worst schools here in the country.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
54. Remember how the media loved talking about the left's "hate" for Bush?
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 11:18 AM by redqueen
They seem to have pretty much dropped that angle entirely now that Obama's in office.

Oh, that wacky liberal media...



Oh and let's not forget Michelle Bachman... she pushes hate too.
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
55. Read "The Family - the secret fundamentalism at the heart of American Power"
This book explains in detail and with references the rise of religious fundamentalism and its marrying up with capitalism to create a secret society of "God" inspired elites who make their leader the sole interpreter of "God"s wishes on earth. Funny how "God"s wishes seem to now reflect the right wing of the Republican Party. This movement also considers "ethics" as Godless and can be ignored. This book explains it all! A very interesting read. The author is Jeff Sharlet and I am about 1/2 through the book. The other book to read is John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience. It does no good to rail against the Hannity, Glenn and others like them as they do not consider anything said against them to matter. We need to get out to the public the true face behind religious and political fundamentalism as Americans will then not support it at all.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
56. Even though I find their kind of misinformation and language is dangerous
This guy shouldn't of did what he did regardless of what RW talking heads say. They are mentally disturbed just like when someone commits a heinous crime then claim they were inspired by GTA. This guy committed murder, all O'reilly, Hannity, etc did was excersize their right to free speech.
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. The irrational seek rationalization.
How can they justify their murderous spree?

I strongly disagree with all they did was...

No. Fox is full of shit. On Wednesday I was stuck at a car repair and forced to listen to Fox. Those assholes were saying Obama is wrong because we are a nation of citizens. They felt he was wrong because we are not a nation of CHRISTIANS!

That is what the nazis felt too. And for that matter the crusades. They cannot do anything but fuel the minds of the stupid who will react accordingly. They do all but pull the trigger.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. I mean lots of people watch and listen to Hannity and others
and they don't go out there and commit murder just like the vast majority of Grand Theft Auto gameplayers. Someone will always have a reason to committ murder, usually the reasons are unjust. I agree Fox is full of shit, trust me I know this but this man I imagine was aware of what he was doing was illegal and he is responsible. Adults should be mature enough to know better regardless of whatever is being said by repukes.
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
61. Scary, but we all knew this shit was going to get worse.
I suspect we will see more murders by right wing lunatics over the next several years. Especially after two to three years of Savage, Rush, Coulter, et. al. spreading their hate messages. Hopefully something will be done to stop them from using the air waves to incite violence, but I doubt it. I remember during the GE all the right wingers around here would always fall back to the "someone will kill him" defense when all of their other reasons for voting for McCain/Palin had been shot down. Republicans know very well that their rhetoric incites the right wing to do what they love doing most. Kill people.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
71. There was a group of people here who kept laughing at Freeper threats against Obama
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 05:39 PM by Number23
I sincerely hope that these people have finally stopped laughing.

From the article: "Beck, by contrast, unleashes his anger against, and whips up dark scenarios about, the new president of the United States. Big difference."

That should be changed to "Beck, by contrast, unleashes his anger against, and whips up dark scenarios about, the new DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED president of the United States. Big difference.

Big difference indeed.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
74. We need to keep talking about this
free speech is free speech, but I want people to know who drives these wackos to commit mass crimes. The guy in Pittsburgh who murdered 3 police is another one.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
79. The Rwandan genocide was caused in part by talk radio hosts whipping
up hatred.
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