Why in Hell is Dental Insurance not a mandatory part of Health Insurance?

[Bonobo]

Dental problems lead to a myriad of problems including Heart Disease.

So how the hell were we duped, as a nation, into accepting the false division between Health Coverage and Dental Coverage?

50 million people in this country don't have Health Insurance. Can you imagine for a moment how terrible the state of our teeth must be?

Speaking for myself, I find it very challenging to keep my teeth healthy while paying out of pocket for my 3 kids and wife as well.

By the way, I am in Japan right now and a cousin is fixing my teeth free of charge. While I was at his office, an older man had just come out and was at the receptionist paying his bill. Can you guess how much his bill was?

450 yen or $4.50 cents. Can you imaging leaving a dentists office in the US and paying that? An American dentist wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire for $4.50.

[we can do it]

1. No Kidding- the Separate Insurance Is Cost Prohibitive, Too

I had an abcess/infection last spring- needed a root canal- $4000, just ridiculous!

[a la izquierda]

2. I'm very, very fortunate.

I've only gone about a year in the last 8 without dental insurance. I worked for a great company in California (owned by, gasp, Scientologists) who provided us with phenomenal benefits, including dental and medical. I paid $35/month for medical and nothing for dental. It was great insurance.
Now I'm a full-time grad student, and my dental for hubby and I costs $50/month. It's not the greatest insurance, but it's not terrible either.

If I didn't have insurance, I'd get my teeth done in Mexico. Good dentists, many of whom speak English (in larger cities)...and cheap.

[dipsydoodle]

3. That's even an issue in the UK

Private medical insurance often excludes it if there are known pre-existing conditions. Our National Health Service really only covers twice yearly check ups and fixed priced fillings etc - definately nothing cosmetic whatsoever.

[Crazy Dave]

4. Two of my co-workers from Central America...

Go home once a year to get their dental work done and a year supply of their medical prescriptions to bring back with them and they spend less than $100 for everything.

[Fumesucker]

5. Umm.. because actual health insurance isn't a mandatory part of "health insurance"?

Just guessing here, but that's my best guess.

After spending right at a year going back and forth with my health insurance over a damn tetanus shot as part of a routine checkup I'm not particularly sanguine about the utility of health insurance these days.

[Mika]

6. Hey, Bonobo, stick it where the sun don't shine.

An American dentist wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire for $4.50.

I would piss on you for free.

Dr Mika.

[Fumesucker]

8. What procedures will you do for $4.50 ?

My last extraction (can't afford anything other than having truly rotten stuff pulled) cost me over $200 out of pocket and I have insurance that paid the majority.

Took less than an hour from the time I walked in to walking out.

[Bonobo]

9. Somehow I don't expect "Dr. Mika" will answer.

Too busy pissing on her patients.

[PCIntern]

12. Maybe but Dr. PC will:

so take it out yourself...or better yet, let the barber do it. Bet he/she won't charge 200...

Most dentists are drowning in overhead costs...hygienists are making 40 dollars an hour, competent assistants 20+, material costs thru the roof, but why should anyone care? We're dentists and deserve nothing...we're such shitheads, right?

[Fumesucker]

14. The dentist had pictures of his plane on the wall...

Somehow I don't associate having your own plane with someone who is "drowning in overhead costs"...

[PCIntern]

19. Yeah well guess what:

I don't have a fucking plane, OK. I drive a Toyota Camry because many of my patients have been laid off and having economic problems for years and it has severely affected my practice. so no, I don't take 2 week vacations or drive luxury cars...I work 6 days a week, usually 10-12 or more hours per day plus all the paperwork and lab issues. I have difficulty getting up in the AM, have severe leg cramps and back pain from the nature of the work and am constantly besieged by people trying to get away with something for nothing or truly needy begging for help. It is like trying to fix a watch with someone spitting on your hands and precision is required or great discomfort may follow...and I do this from 6 AM to 6 PM. So it ain't easy and it is difficult in these economic times to survive. If you don't like the tome of the post, I don't like the tone of people pointing out how good we all have it. that's a very cery Republican point of view...narrow and ignorant of what's really going on.

[Mika]

21. Thank you for your dedication and perseverance.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Old Altima driver here, and no pool at my small house.

Hang in there. Tough times for all.

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

24. I was just relating my own experience..

Not casting asparagus on you..

I agree that dentistry is a difficult field and people are entitled to make a decent living, it's not something I would want to do myself, I'm not good enough with people, obviously.

[Bonobo]

15. The intent of the OP was not to pile on dentists actually.

The "pissing" statement was really meant as a joke.
My father and grandfather were dentists.
The point I meant to make was to underscore the problem faced by Americans in trying to keep their teeth healthy, something that you and I can both agree is vitally important.

No offense meant, truly. Sorry if it was stated poorly.

[Mika]

17. I guess people want airline pilots and doctors to make less and less income.

In keeping with the push for downward wages, I guess we should pay our staff and ancillaries way less. Yeah. That's the ticket. :crazy:


:hi:

[Fumesucker]

25. Misery loves company..

It's difficult to pay for the more expensive lifestyle of others when your own income has been greatly curtailed.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. If I were a dentist

I'd try to get my peers to stop filling the waiting room with Conde Nast Traveller and other luxery lifestyle mags.
My perio recently retired. He sent me a photo of his 'ranch' the same day I sent him $1600 for an hour's work. Movie star, Sun King type of 'ranch'.
So, they get rich, not well off, rich, and then they brag about it, litter the office with catalogs for hand made goods and 'exclusive' small cruises.
The yachths and airplanes and the photos of 'my 12th trip to Venice' and all of it make paying the enormous fees a bit more difficult than it needs to be. Most of the dentists make too much money, and they are also very rude about it, in a way that amazes me. Public displays of consumption in the office are common as can be. "That's my wife buying shoes in Milan. Please pay the receptionist as you leave."

[liberalhistorian]

58. Periodontists are specialists, they make way more money

than regular dentists do. Most dentists I've been to don't have that kind of opulence in their waiting rooms and offices, far from it.

ETA: I just realized this is my 16,000th post! Woot!!!

[liberalhistorian]

57. I don't doubt at all the huge overhead or

the education and training necessary for dentistry and it drives me crazy to see the dentist-hating threads here, with the bragging that they can do it themselves for less, yaddayadda. But I'm sorry, I know of NO hygienists making forty an hour, or even twenty or hell, even fifteen. NONE. And I find that very hard to believe. And frankly, the last two times I went to the dentist I never even SAW a dentist; the cleanings and checks were all done by the hygienists. It's not as if they sit around chatting and stuffing chocolate in their mouths all day.

[lonestarnot]

60. What?

You haven't heard of the slave labor market yet? Well lemme tell you it's booming!

[Mika]

13. Piss off.

FYI, Mika is a he.

Your broad brushing of an entire American profession is rather distasteful. Granted, there are greedy DDS's, but that's not all of us. Please keep that in mind.

[Bonobo]

16. My apologies are offered.

You misread the intent of the OP and overreacted at a joke.

[Mika]

18. Accepted.

Not so much of a joke when that sentiment is repeatedly posted here, as if we (dental professionals) were all stealing candy from a baby.

[Hugabear]

34. Well you have to consider what most of us are going through

As the OP points out, dental health can have a very real and direct affect on the rest of your body's health. In fact, you can DIE as a result of poor dental health. Yet millions of Americans either do not have access to dental insurance or cannot afford it. If you can't afford dental insurance, then how in the hell are you going to be able to afford the high costs for dental care?

So yes - there are people out there who will DIE because they cannot afford the hundreds or thousands of dollars it would take to take care of their dental problems.

All because somebody arbitrarily decided that dental health issues should be handled separately from regular health issues.

[liberalhistorian]

59. There's been a lot of dentist-bashing here these last few

months, and I have to say that I really don't understand it. The same people doing it are the same people who complain bitterly about teacher bashing, public employee and union bashing, etc. Hypocrites.

[Skittles]

67. yes

I like my dentist and he only has People magazine and Readers Digest in his waiting room :D

[Mika]

11. I don't do any procedures for $4.50. But I do 30-40 hrs per month free at a clinic.

I'm also a member of Smile Train.

www.smiletrain.org


Been around the world doing charity work also.

[renate]

51. thank you so much

:hug:

[Skittles]

68. SMILETRAIN SUPPORTER HERE!

:hi:

[populistdriven]

69. what if I was on fire?

[sammytko]

73. thank you - i love my dentist

i'm glad that my father insisted we brush our teeth several times a day. There are 11 kids in my family and we all have great teeth!!

make your kids brush.

[annabanana]

7. It would just encourage a lot of unnecessary dental work..

right?

I mean, which one of us wouldn't spend hours on extravagant root canals and stuff. .

[Bonobo]

10. Yeah, maybe some cosmetic periodontal or endodontal work. nt

[Mika]

20. Take a minute to learn something.

Cosmetic periodontal surgery.

[Bonobo]

22. Wow, you learn something new every day.

But let me tell you, few things can put you in a pissy mood like long-term aching teeth. And people like me have a hard time imagining cosmetic dental ANYTHING.

[Mika]

23. One of those things that can put me in a pissy mood is people complaining that..

.. I'm (or all dental professionals are) greedy and don't care. Hence, my response to your OP "joke".

[Bonobo]

28. I understand and once again apologize. nt

[Hugabear]

32. I had an emergency dental situation several years ago. The dentist wouldn't touch me without money.

I had an abscessed wisdom tooth several years ago, that was causing me excruciating pain - the worst pain I've ever felt in my life, like a dagger was being thrust into my temple. It was so extreme that I seriously contemplated taking my life, and I'm surprised that the amount of OTC painkillers I took didn't kill me. Anyways, the next day I went to a dentist to see if there was anything they could do. I did not have any dental insurance at the time, but I did have a steady job, and that I could pay $100 upfront and the rest later, if they could please do something. The dentist said 'sorry, there's nothing I can do for you' except to give me a prescription for some antibiotics to treat the infection.

I have never understood this kind of reasoning. I can walk into an emergency room, and they have to treat you - they can send you a hefty bill afterwards, but they still must treat you. Yet you can have a dental emergency, and you're shit out of luck.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. Hugabear, if the tooth was abscessed the dentist can't do anything until the

infection is cleared. No root canal. No pulling of the tooth. The tooth must be free of infection before dental work can be done.

[Hugabear]

39. Regardless, he and many other dentists will not treat people without insurance or upfront money.

It's not like I had the opportunity to go back to that dentist after the infection cleared to have him take care of what caused the infection in that wisdom tooth. Because I had no insurance or upfront money, I had to simply allow the tooth to rot away in my mouth, taking pain medication and antibiotics whenever an infection flared up.

People DIE every year because of health problems related to dental conditions. WHY should dental issues be treated DIFFERENTLY than ANY other part of the human anatomy?

[muffin1]

30. Ain't that the truth!

I missed three days at a new job because of a bad tooth. I'd been putting off the root canal for months because of the cost (and not having a job). I am a female who has had more extractions than she'd like to admit, so another one was out of the question.
So for $840.00 the root canal took about an hour. I also had to use the suction tube myself - when I asked for suction (I thought I was going to drown on my own saliva) - he just handed me the tube and took off to parts unknown.
Then he put a bite block in my mouth and joked that the number of extractions I've had made it difficult to insert.

[Hugabear]

26. I've been complaining about this for years

Can you imagine the outrage if suddenly health insurance companies decided they would no longer cover respiratory problems, and you had to buy separate respiratory insurance? Or if you had to buy separate insurance to cover your skin, or any other part of your body?

As you point out, poor dental conditions can lead to very serious health problems, including heart disease. It's appalling that so many people cannot afford health insurance, let alone fork out even MORE for separate dental insurance.

[tonysam]

71. As I've Said, Dental Insurance is a Joke.

It pays for "preventative" care, the very thing people are more likely to be able to pay out of pocket, and the scroogelike yearly benefits don't pay shit towards major dental work, which yours truly has to have at some point.

It's completely backasswards and shouldn't be allowed. It should be like regular medical insurance and with far higher benefits.

It's because people are more likely to use dental than medical, that's why, so the insurance companies screw over people.

[Ilsa]

27. ITA. Dental should be a standard part of any medical insurance plan.

We are fortunate to have dental insurance, although we have to pay separately for it. And it is worth it.

[Mika]

31. Its these very insurance companies that are forcing DDS's to use Chinese dental labs.

The ever growing push downward has US dentistry ever more relying on cheap Chinese outsourced prosthetics - destroying yet another US based technical/ manufacturing industry.

I don't do insurance at my practice.

:argh:

[Bluenorthwest]

36. I leave the country to find good dentists

using Euro made prosthetics, who charge prices that I can afford. They are kinder, gentler, and not one of them has told me he or she could not give an estimate better than "between 10 and 50 thousand, with 30K as a deposit" as one did here.
I've basically stopped even thinking about American dentists. If you need one crown, you can go to Costa Rica, get the crown and have a week's vacation and still save money. Two crowns and you are saving a pile.
I like keeping my money, not giving it to people who already have plenty.

[Mika]

54. I'm in Miami. A major source of patients is remaking bad Costa Rica dentistry.

Glad you're saving money (for now). Hope your work holds up. ;)

As far as I'm concerned, teeth are worth more than money.

[liberalhistorian]

61. Yes, they are, that's true. But too many dentists won't

touch you without money. Even if you have dental insurance, many still want a lot upfront and won't touch you if you don't have it. You want people to be able to take care of their teeth the way they should, the way most want to do, then that has to change. Dentists are the ones who need to try to change that, just like doctors are the ones who need to try to change the health care system and get rid of insurance companies; otherwise it will never be done. The bigshots in charge do NOT listen to us little people, period. It's not just up to us, it's up to you and your profession as well.

[nolabels]

38. Ever try to pick up food product from a store shelf that wasn't laced with sweeteners?

I hear your outrage but would submit to you that the problem is out of the range of Doctor-patient-health care provider. We live in a culture that's been conned into a pre-sweetened mess

[Ilsa]

48. I had new crowns made last year. Beautiful. Local. Very happy.

Expensive, but worth it.

[Mika]

55. Local?

:hi:

How do you know this? Did you visit with the lab/ceramist during your case fabrication?

I only ask this because many local labs are outsourcing their cases (or parts of the cases) to Chinese labs.

A patient normally wouldn't know, unless they asked, and even then the Dr. might not know if the local lab has outsourced the case and might assume that it was locally fabricated. This is the latest trend in dental prosthetics - the labs are facing the push for lower costs/wages and are firing their experienced well paid long term employees and shifting to outsourcing for 1/5 of the cost of a good US made restoration. Much of this Chinese work is inferior, unhealthy, and there have been tests that reveal lead and other toxic materials in an unknown number of the restorations themselves.

US dentistry is fatally crashing and burning right now!

[edhopper]

29. Beacuse

health insurance in this country is designed to enrich the Insurance Companies, not take care of the health needs of the populace.

[harun]

35. Because nothing is a mandatory part of Health Insurance.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

40. I wish we had a better system.

Due to DNA mostly I have periodontal disease and my teeth are well, just plain falling out.
I was shocked at the cost of dentures even if I use my insurance coverage for Dental....................... I dread thinking I might be toothless someday! :(

[Blue Diadem]

41. I'll be paying a few thousand after leaving my dentist office in a rescue squad

last Monday. The tooth is still there and thank god, so far, it's no longer hurting. The hospital admitted me for 24 hour observation and to run tests to check for stroke or heart attack after I apparently stopped breathing while under nitrous after having 4 shots that didn't numb me. I know I blacked out, an office employee told my DH I'd stopped breathing. The hospital determined that I'd probably had a reaction to nitrous.

I found it strange the hospital/Dr. couldn't provide me with a couple doses of antibiotics that I'd been on for the tooth infection. It's like they don't/can't cross over into the area. The Dr. who was seeing me told me I'd have to have someone bring in the antibiotics from home or I'd have to call the dentist.

We don't need more insurance, we need health and dental care for all. Even with having insurance, I couldn't afford the dental work with insurance only paying 50% and an annual cap of $1,000 in benefits. Crowns and root canals are costly. Plus having health insurance where we have to pay $2400 or whatever our individual deductible is, before it begins to pay anything. My DH was laid off in Feb., so our insurance ended last Tuesday night, the same day I was released from the hospital. Now we have to pick up Cobra plus pay all the deductibles. I still need to followup with my regular Dr. who I haven't been able to afford to see since our last plant closing. I still need to see an oral surgeon to have the tooth removed.

[Bonobo]

43. That's what I'm talking about! 50% isn't insurance, it is a coupon...

50% off a $1500 dollar bill is not sufficient, damn it!

Like I said, in Japan, people are getting routing dental care for $4/visit. And they are paying 1/4 or less what we all pay for standard HEALTH INSURANCE which doesn't necessarily cover any dental at all.

How are we supposed to be a strong country if our teeth are rotting out of our heads?

[Blue Diadem]

46. You know, I had to explain that to the dentist last week.

He couldn't understand why I couldn't afford a root canal and crown. He repeatedly said "well don't you have dental insurance?" It took my explaining to him what our annual cap was and what 50% would cost before he seemed to understand. Even then, it's 50% of customary and I've only had one dentist in my dental insurance life that didn't charge above customary.

Even after my being on antibiotics for several days, he still hadn't planned on pulling the tooth on that visit. It just so happened they had a cancellation after my appt so at the last minute he said they'd be able to pull it that day. Otherwise he said they usually charge for another office visit on top of the charge for pulling the tooth.

Dental health is important to our overall physical health. I will never understand why our country feels health care and dental care are something that only those who can afford it deserve.

[liberalhistorian]

63. I'm really surprised you had to explain that to him at all.

Most dentists are the first to realize and understand just what a fucking joke most dental insurance really is.

[Blue Diadem]

75. I just found an estimate from Jan 08 for the crown only. $1005

I bet it's gone up since then too. I haven't had a root canal in many years but back some 20 yrs ago, it was equal to the amount of the crown.

[MountainLaurel]

42. Not to mention vision

Apparently my eyes aren't part of my body. :shrug:

Hell, many insurance plans don't even cover things like hearing aids.

[liberalhistorian]

64. Grrr, do NOT get me started on insurance and hearing aids!

I've had to wear hearing aids most of my adult life, since I was twenty, and no insurance I know of pays one red cent for hearing aids. Medicaid is one of the few insurances that do and even it only pays for one hearing aid (wear them in both ears). And they ain't cheap, either, we're talking thousands of dollars for each aid. I'm still paying off the pair I have now that I got over six years ago, and they're starting to wear down, as they usually do after five or six years. It pisses me off beyond measure that insurance companies don't even consider hearing aids at all. If you don't have the money upfront or aren't approved for credit or financing, you're shit out of luck. Period. Even if you need them to function at a job, as I do.

[MountainLaurel]

77. I completely understand

I don't think my brother has had a working hearing aid in years (he's 35 and has worn them since he was 3) because he can't afford it. Luckily, between his "good" ear (which has about a 10% loss) and lip-reading, he gets through the day-to-day tolerably well.

[hfojvt]

44. I recently got a check up and two fillings and paid nothing

Well nothing except the $15.10 a month I pay for dental insurance. Pretty much paid for itself right there.

[Bonobo]

45. Such insurance is unvailable to me where I live. Maybe parity is what we need. nt

[Javaman]

47. I go to the UT dental school in San Antonio...

they only charge for materials. I get top notch state of the art work.

It takes a bit longer but I am very satisfied with the work.

My dental plan at work it absolutely horrible. I need to get two implants (bridges won't work in my case) and I was looking at 5 to 7 grand to pay for it. No can do.

at the school? I'm paying 1200 bucks.

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. Why? Because you WILL use it.

Virtually EVERYBODY gets dental work, which means there is no great profit to be gained by offering dental insurance.

Most people are basically healthy, so medical insurance is a highly profitable enterprise. Before I turned 40 I almost never went to the doctor except for specific injuries. That meant that the insurance payments my employers took from my check went to profits.

Dental is not like that. Even with 4 or 2 annual checkups, there is a good probability that people will have dental problems that need to be addressed, from cavities to root canals. That's why, even if you have dental insurance, the patient will pay 50% out of pocket.

The purpose of insurance is not to help someone pay medical bills. The purpose of insurance is to make money for the insurance company. If the company has high payouts, it makes no profit.

The only fix is universal, single-payer coverage which includes dental - that subsumes the cost into the overall medical coverage.

[raccoon]

52. Well said. nt

[tonysam]

72. You Hit It on the Head.

Dental insurance is a total farce.

[librechik]

50. Hey that fancy stuff is jest fer rich folk

so skedaddle, trash!

(and go to some country where healthcare is a right, not a privilege which must show a growing profit every year to satisfy investors.)

[OnionPatch]

56. We know what a string and a doorknob are fer.

Heck, you can still chew with two or three teeth, right?

[Michigan-Arizona]

53. Mexico

I had 4 teeth pulled (1 was a wisdom tooth) & my whole top done with porcelain at a cost of $2,800.00. Friend's that have had this done told me it cost them well over $6,000 here in the state's, which I think was a few year's ago so not sure what it would cost today.

[laundry_queen]

62. I completely agree.

As a Canadian, I'm more than pissed it's not included in OUR health care system. I have children all of whom have had bad teeth that required major dental work at one time or another and it's unbelievably expensive. We *finally* have insurance through dh's work but for years we had no insurance and it was horrible. We're talking YOUNG children with abcesses and rotting teeth (despite all the brushing and floride treatments and varnishes) and many times we had to pay out of pocket. Luckily at the time we could pay (well, credit card but that's another story...), but it still bothered me that MY children had issues with their teeth so I had to pay, while other parents whose children had other issues, such as warts or eczema didn't have to worry about cost. Teeth are SO important to health in general. I also think eye care should be covered (Who the fuck can function if they can't fricken SEE?). I bet there are kids out there who suffer in school because their parents can't afford glasses. :rant:

[nonconformist]

65. And good luck finding a dentist who will do work on you

If you don't have the money up front or insurance (AND the money up front for what insurance doesn't cover).

That's what I find most disgusting of all. If you need emergency care, you can go to the ER and they will treat you. They might bankrupt you later with the bill, but they'll treat you. Dentists won't, even though a severe dental emergency, besides being extremely painful and diminishing your quality of life, could actually lead to something life-threatening. It's bullshit.

[kas125]

66. Every morning I'm surprised that I haven't died from my teeth

while I was sleeping.

[jtrockville]

70. Because private for-profit health insurance is a SCAM.

What kind of medical professional would deem a person "healthy" when their teeth are rotting out of their head? Only an insurance company would consider such a premise.

[drbtg1]

74. This thread has been reported to the admins

This is what I stated:

Once again, you have ignorant DUers trashing a significant segment of DU members simply because they happen to be dentists and believe a certain stereotype about dentists and blindly apply that to all dentists. Will anything ever be done about it?

Don't worry, as this is not the first time I've reported bigotry against dentists here and nothing was done then either. Mika and PCIntern, you have my sympathies.

[PHIMG]

76. It is included in HR-676

SEC. 102. BENEFITS AND PORTABILITY.

(a) In General- The health insurance benefits under this Act cover all medically necessary services, including--

(1) primary care and prevention;

(2) inpatient care;

(3) outpatient care;

(4) emergency care;

(5) prescription drugs;

(6) durable medical equipment;

(7) long term care;

(8) mental health services;

(9) the full scope of dental services (other than cosmetic dentistry);

(10) substance abuse treatment services;

(11) chiropractic services; and

(12) basic vision care and vision correction (other than laser vision correction for cosmetic purposes).

(b) Portability- Such benefits are available through any licensed health care clinician anywhere in the United States that is legally qualified to provide the benefits.

(c) No Cost-sharing- No deductibles, copayments, coinsurance, or other cost-sharing shall be imposed with respect to covered benefits.

[Blue_Tires]

78. because the for-profit setup we now have is a racket?