Obama invites anti-gay Dungy to serve on "Faith-Based" council. (I know,he will only sing one song.)

[Bluebear]

Exclusive: Former NFL Coach Tony Dungy Invited to Join White House Faith Council
March 31, 2009

The White House has invited recently retired NFL Coach Tony Dungy, whose outspoken Christian faith fueled his 2007 support for a gay marriage ban and has won accolades from evangelical leaders, to join its Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, U.S. News has learned. The invitation is likely to draw praise from conservative evangelical groups and criticism from liberals and gay rights activists....

The White House press office did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Officials with the Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships would not confirm the invitation to Dungy, but his publicist said rumors of the invitation in Washington were true. "I can confirm that Tony was contacted by the advisory council and asked to join," said Todd Starowitz, a publicist at Dungy's book publisher, in an E-mail message this morning. "He has yet to make a decision if he will accept the offer."

The White House is expected to announce the final 10 members of its faith council this week. It had announced 15 members of the council when it unveiled its Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships in February.

The soft-spoken Dungy sparked controversy in 2007 by endorsing an Indiana ballot initiative to ban gay marriage and similar legal arrangements for gay couples. "I feel like telling people when they look at this issue of same-sex marriage . . . I'm not on anybody's side," Dungy said at a 2007 banquet sponsored by the Indiana Family Institute, a conservative Christian group associated with Focus on the Family. "I'm on the Lord's side."

At the event, Dungy said he "embraced" the Indiana Family Institute's support for the gay marriage ban. "IFI is saying what the Lord says," Dungy said, accepting the group's Friend of the Family Award. "You can take that and you can make the decision on which way you want to be."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/03/31/exclusive-former-nfl-coach-tony-dungy-invited-to-join-white-house-faith-council.html

[defendandprotect]

1. Bush could have done that . . . !!!

[Horse with no Name]

2. I prefer reality-based

Why can't we just have reality-based councils. People who want to live their lives faith-based have churches on every fucking corner.
I suggest they find one and do "their" thing.:mad:

[Zhade]

290. Agreed. Living in delusion is far less satisfying than reality.

Sure, it's comfy, but it's also a lie.

Oh, and FUCK that homophobe Dungy.

(I notice that "homophobe" is STILL not in DU's spellcheck.)

[msongs]

3. establishment of a state religion takes another flying leap forward nt

[Solon]

4. The Council should be disbanded, talk about a horrible idea...

what is their purpose again?

[MADem]

18. I agree with that--and that Office of Faith Based Initiatives should be turned into the

White House coffee mess, or something.

Only problem is, the churches are the new thugs in town--they cozy up to politicians, they offer up their congregations and all those swell votes, and for it, they want a little...consideration, capisce?

It's why I object to churches receiving federal funds for delivery of services to the homeless, etc. If they want to do that stuff, they need to raise the dough in other ways--not shake down politicians.

[Sunnyshine]

32. Not only federal funds, these churches host weekly gambling as regluar source of income.

Bingo every Tuesday and Thursday, Split the Pots, Poker, Silent Auctions, etc...all that on top of their donations.
There is a whole lotta unregulated money going through the biggest of them. How do they retain their tax exempt status?
Many of their parishioners do not support public schools - refusing to vote for their funding. As taxpayers fund same churches.

[MADem]

47. I really do think it's past time for taxation and regulation.

In Germany, you have to tell the government your religion (unless you declare "no religious preference" or "none") and the government takes the cash out of your income and hands it to the church.

In the US, people lie on their income tax about how much they give to Jesus, and the government sometimes believes them if it's not too big a lie.

If the government is going to get involved in faith based bullshit, they should follow the German model. Why pussyfoot around? That way, the government knows exactly how much the Church of the Holey Underwear is getting on an annual basis. There's no fudging or bullshitting.

Of course, this recommendation is absent getting out of the fucking church business entirely, which is what I think Uncle Sam should do.

[noiretextatique]

101. obama needs to get rid of it

instead of continuing this blatant melding of church and state.

[Solon]

105. I still don't understand what purpose it serves, since when was it the government's...

job to help organize private charities, not to mention that not all charities are faith based or sectarian, so they are excluded from this. I view it the same way as you do, it serves no real purpose, its just a melding of church and state, and should be abolished.

[skepticscott]

155. Their purpose is

to funnel public money to religious organizations in violation of the Constitution.

[Starry Messenger]

5. I am not happy.

No one has put forward any reasons that I find convincing on why giving right-wing fundies a voice in this government is a good policy. I am totally baffled. :thumbsdown:

[Occam Bandage]

6. It's great politics to reach out to evangelical Christians. It's also terrible policy.

This is not an idea I can support.

[LuvNewcastle]

7. I don't know why Obama keeps

cozying up to these fundies. All they ever do is shit on him, and they aren't going to stop.

[roughsatori]

8. The dilemma is that if you fight for gay equal rights at DU you will be attacked

as a "troll" or "anti-Obama" whiner. Once again, the Democratic party got our votes and discards us.

It seems that many DUers only care about GBLT equal rights when it is a Repig that is taking the repugnant action - if its a Dem, just "shut-up."

[Bluebear]

10. When you're right, you're right.

[mitchtv]

11. enough with the Poutrage

LOL:fistbump: It's all part of a super plan you'll see, just wait

[Bluebear]

12. At least they're repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Oh wait...

[Rockholm]

221. Didn't they already do that?

:sarcasm:

[roughsatori]

16. I am Poutraged!

and laughing at those homophobic idiots,

[closeupready]

204. Right! Of course! The super secret squirrel action plan!

Just wait and see! :rofl:

[Rhythm]

20. +1

[FLAprogressive]

38. Exactly.

[geek tragedy]

42. There is a difference between criticizing the cozying up to

anti-gay figures (good) and posts like "FUCK YOU OBAMA" based on a comment from Bob Gates.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tbyg52]

125. Ain't that the truth. I'm sick of it.

It's just as bad as if he had appointed a racist or a sexist, and *that's* the truth!!!!!

[lies and propaganda]

180. its sadly true.

our own party, our own website constantly tells us to just STFU already.

[mitchtv]

9. Sigue cabron

keep it up and we stay home nrxt time. I was expecting a benign neglect but this is getting beligerent

[EFerrari]

13. I want to know if there is a budget for this outfit.

[Canuckistanian]

14. Why is the WH sponsoring "Faith-based" anything?

Is there a department for "non-faith-based" councils?

This is just Rick Warren redux - and it appears that NO lessons were learned with THAT controversy.

[Maven]

15. This is bullshit. Enough with these fucking people.

And don't tell me Obama's team just didn't "vet" them.

[roughsatori]

17. K&R

[mitchtv]

19. Just another example of Obama wiping his ass

on the GLBT community. Inviting the concerned women of america last week was a precurse. they will only stab him in the back, yet he will shit on the people who voted for him.

[defendandprotect]

73. Obama invited Concerned Women of America last week . . ??!!!

Didn't know . . .

"but he's only been in office 60 days!" --

:shrug:

[mitchtv]

100. Sorry , I believe I am wrong on that post

they were not

[ColbertWatcher]

21. This is not surprising.

I would expect every person on a Faith-based panel to be homophobic.

Which is why I don't think the government should have established a Faith-based council.

[Chovexani]

22. This is what I don't understand

There are multitudes of religious figures who are not, in fact, batshit insane fundies, and who are not trying to subvert our democracy in favor of setting up a tinhat theocractic dictatorship. In fact I'd go so far as to say these folks are in the religious majority of this country.

And, yet, whenever we are told by various people that we need to "reach out" to that nebulously termed "people of faith", it is ALWAYS the batshit insane fundies that always get attention. They are always the ones we are supposed to "reach out" to.

Compromise has to work both ways, otherwise you're just getting fucked without the common courtesy of a reach around.

[MadBadger]

26. I dont get a "Pat Robertson" vibe from Dungy.

I dont really see the evidence of him being batshit insane or wanting to subvert democracy as you said.

[NMMNG]

34. You wouldn't

:eyes:

[Chovexani]

129. He is staunchly against civil rights for all Americans

That sounds pretty anti-democratic to me.

[MadBadger]

133. True, but do you have evidence that he wants to setup a "tinhat theocratic dictatorship."

Cuz that's what I was responding to, and I havent seen evidence that he wants to do that.

I think he's just another born-again who Id like to see kept out of influence, just as Id like to see this entire faith thing disappear.

I just dont think he reaches Pat Robertson territory.

[Bjorn Against]

174. Saying he doesn't reach Pat Robertson territory is setting the bar as low it can possibly go.

[ColbertWatcher]

39. I would think it's statistically impossible for there to be more batshit insane fundys ...

... than there are regular people.

There has to be, for every "congregation" there has to be a leader--only one--leader. And that leader has to be the figurehead for the followers.

You ask a good question and to avoid threadjacking this conversation, you really ought to consider posting it as its own thread. I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say about it.

But, back to this conversation ... I don't understand why we still have a faith-based office in our government for Dungy to join.

[Chovexani]

130. I would rather it be gotten rid of altogether too

This whole thing is blatantly unconstitutional and was nothing more than a way for the Bushies to bribe their base. It's welfare for fundies.

Here's a wild idea, about we try some reality-based initiatives and leave religion for private life? Sheesh.

[defendandprotect]

80. Excellent point . .!!

[Zhade]

291. Obama is clearly not comfortable with us gays.

The feeling is mutual.

[Captain Hilts]

146. That's a narrow view of people of faith. But a pattern has formed with Obama. nt

[Missy Vixen]

23. So, when are those of us who disagree permitted to speak up?

After all, the selection of Rick Warren to speak at the Inaugural wasn't a problem, was it? "Don't ask, don't tell" is also off the table now as well. Now this?

So, when is it going to be okay to criticize President Obama's continuing support of evangelicals who actively discriminate against homosexuals? I read yesterday that we should wait six months. :mad:

[Brucie Kibbutz]

152. You're allowed to speak up any time you like,

"as long as you don't take it too far". Trouble with that is, any criticism whatsoever is "taking it too far".

Some folks on this forum just don't understand the fact that people come here to live in a Happy Obama World where his bad decisions are actually really good! :crazy:

[Bluebear]

304. +1

[Mithreal]

24. The President maintaining this Bush creation is an affront to our Constitution.

http://www.allgov.com/agency/Council__for_Faith_Based_and_Neighborhood__Partnerships

[MrSlayer]

25. Is there a counterbalance to the anti-gay sentiment on this "council"?

Is there someone on there that will argue the opposite of this dickhead and the other undoubtedly anti-gay members?

[Political Heretic]

28. Is that Al swearengen in your sig line? :D

:rofl:

Sorry, had to...

[MrSlayer]

29. My all time favorite character.

On my all time favorite show.

But no, that's Lemmy as Jesus.

[SpartanDem]

30. These are the members

for sake of discussion I'm not personally familiar with their views

Judith N. Vredenburgh, Big Brothers Big Sisters of America, Philadelphia, PA

Rabbi David Saperstein, Director & Counsel, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, and noted church/state expert, Washington, DC

Dr. Frank S. Page, President emeritus, Southern Baptist Convention, Taylors, SC

Father Larry J. Snyder, President, Catholic Charities USA, Alexandria, VA

Rev. Otis Moss, Jr., Pastor emeritus, Olivet Institutional Baptist Church, Cleveland, OH

Eboo S. Patel, Founder & Executive Director, Interfaith Youth Corps, Chicago, IL

Fred Davie, President, Public/Private Ventures, a secular non-profit intermediary, New York, NY

Dr. William J. Shaw, President, National Baptist Convention, USA, Philadelphia, PA

Melissa Rogers, Director, Wake Forest School of Divinity Center for Religion and Public Affairs and expert on church/state issues, Winston-Salem, NC

Pastor Joel C. Hunter, Senior Pastor, Northland, a Church Distributed, Lakeland, FL

Dr. Arturo Chavez, Ph.D., President & CEO, Mexican American Cultural Center, San Antonio, TX

Rev. Jim Wallis, President & Executive Director, Sojourners, Washington, DC

Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie, Presiding Bishop, 13th Episcopal District, African Methodist Episcopal Church, Knoxville, TN

Diane Baillargeon, President & CEO, Seedco, a secular national operating intermediary in New York, NY

Richard Stearns, President, World Vision, Bellevue, WA <14>

[MrSlayer]

33. Fred Davie, an openly gay man, is on the council.

http://www.gaypolitics.com/2009/02/06/obama-names-fred-davie-to-council-on-faith-based-and-neighborhood-partnerships/



I've looked up some of the people on the list and they seem to span the political spectrum.

[Marrah_G]

46. That's like saying it's okay to have a guy from the KKK on a comittee as long he is balance out.....

[Political Heretic]

27. When will I see a headline like this:

"Obama appoints openly gay christian to faith council" and "...the invitation is likely to draw praise from liberals and gay rights activists and criticism from conservative evangelicals."

Does this only flow one fucking way?

[LostinVA]

36. "Does this only flow one fucking way?"

You know the unfortunate answer to this.

Your support is appreciated, btw.

[ieoeja]

58. Given that Obama already has appointed an openly gay member to the faith council...

I guess you'll read that headline only when the media chooses to print it.

[NMMNG]

104. One gay Christian

Can you say "token"? I knew you could. How do you think things are going to go when that one lamb and all the rabid wolves get together to decide what to have for dinner?

[Marrah_G]

176. One gay christian does not balance out an anti-gay activist

Only one anti-straight activist, who is trying to outlaw being straight, trying to destroy straight families and taking away rights of straight people and promoting programs to brainwash people into becoming GBLT would TRULY balance things out.

[NMMNG]

231. That's pretty much the point I was making

A single toothless lamb amongst a pack of wolves can hardly be called balance, and the people demanding we bow down and kiss Obama's ass for it are truly sick.

[FiveGoodMen]

114. "We'll tell you what you need to know and we'll tell you how to feel about it!"

[Jamastiene]

31. *sigh*

I'll be needing some Preparation H soon if he keeps this up.

[LostinVA]

35. Great -- yet anti anti-gay bigot enabled and endorsed by the White House

Damn, it's crowded here under this bus.

OOPS, sorry for my poutrage!

:eyes:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

37. Just one more inconvenient truth about Obama. :(

[FLAprogressive]

40. time to meet the underside of a bus, yet again.

[Solly Mack]

41. K&R

[progressoid]

43. Why the fuck do we have a faith based anything in govt?

GRRRR... :grr:

[liberalsince1968]

44. Once again Obama follows in Bush's footsteps.

[Marrah_G]

45. Why? Why does he keep slapping the GBLT people in the face with this shit?

Would it be so difficult to find someone that wasn't an anti-GBLT ACTIVIST????

Not just anti-gay- but actively working to strip gay people of their civil rights.

[Orsino]

48. Because he's trying to build the largest possible coalition of Americans...

...and he's not afraid to break a lot of eggs to make his omelet.

I don't approve of all the compromises he's made, but I understand this one. If he'd been the equal-rights candidate I really wanted, he'd never have been nominated, much less elected. He will accomplish more than any other president could, I think, but equality is being pushed aside--yet again.

He'd just damned well better bring us a lot of ponies.

[Marrah_G]

49. The problem is that he is CHOOSING anti-gay activists

He could CHOOSE someone who is not pro-gay but who is also not actively seeking to destroy the rights of GBLT citizens.

That is where I have an issue.

He keeps doing this over and over.

Frankly I am pretty sure the GBLT community has heard him loud and clear.

Actions speak louder then words and his actions show exactly what he thinks of GBLT civil rights.

If this person were actively supporting the removal of rights for any other minority, Obama would NEVER give them the time of day.

But in his mind....GBLT isn't a "real" minority. They are sinners, they choose to be like that.

It is very frustrating to have someone on your side who is also clearly NOT on your side.

The community is torn up inside over this.

[Orsino]

50. It's not just a problem. It's integral to his strategy.

He is at least smart enough to know he will need a wide spectrum of support, and hiding behind a few loud-mouthed bigots is good political cover.

We may never know how Obama really feels about equal rights, but he staked out an anti-gay public stance years ago, like every other serious contender.

[Marrah_G]

51. I find myself getting more and more disillusioned with every person in DC.

[Orsino]

55. In this matter, though, they reflect America's profound conservatism.

Or prudery. Or schoolyardishness, or whatever it is.

If more Americans were live-and-let-live, more of our politicians would be, too. I'm afraid that our love of guns and bluster is of a piece with our fear of not being goddamned mahnly enough. We have internalized the conservative sense of entitlement without ever being secure in it. We require, or are amused by, constant reinforcement of the myth of the ten-foot-tall Anglo-Saxon American male, in coonskin cap and totin' automatic weapons, who takes giant strides across the globe, kicking women and minorities of all stripes with a rebel yell and whiskey-drool, leaving a trail of radioactive mine tailings, ash and mass graves wherever he goes.

We can't get our heads around the fuzzy concept of men who like sleeping with other men, however often it happens in our most macho of communities: soldiering, cowpunching and incarceration. We'd prefer to believe every case an aberration rather than a fact of life, to be snickered at--and bloodily avenged--rather than accepted.

[cliffordu]

162. Exactly.

Excellent summation of men in 'Murka.

I spent a lot of years shedding that crap so I could love who I love without wanting to commit suicide.

[Bill McBlueState]

53. and I don't really get why *every* serious contender does this

With every passing year, Americans as a whole become more tolerant of GLBT people. It would be nice if we could have leaders who, you know, lead public opinion instead of always playing catch-up. People who inspire us to be better, instead of always pandering to the moral backwater that is conservative Christianity.

[Orsino]

59. We can be magnanimous, once we're assured of our supremacy.

However, we're not just gonna give up our right to oppress, even if it's not one we're entirely comfortable using. Clinton, for example, managed to keep a straight face when asked about her opposition to same-sex marriage, saying something like, "I prefer to think of it as strongly favoring civil unions." All the other candidates who failed this test use similar weasel language, and flee when asked to explain their bigotry.

People start demanding rights from the majority, well, they're gettin' uppity. They should wait for privileges to fall on them, like fairy dust, from the beneficent daddy-state, who can be very kind if you'd just stop nagging.

[Mari333]

52. here come the obama can do no wrong apologists. nt

[Bill McBlueState]

54. there actually aren't that many apologists on this thread yet

It's kind of encouraging, but perhaps I speak too soon. :shrug:

[Marrah_G]

56. I think most people are coming to grips with the reality

Even though they love Obama and agree with most of his policies, I would guess that 80% of DU is getting frustrated or at least uncomfortable with him on this issue.

[kiva]

151. Because this is GP.

If this thread were in GDP it would be a different story.

[bullwinkle428]

57. ZOMG...when will u stop screaming about teh pony??!?!?

;)
:evilgrin:
:fistbump:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. Fuck. This. Shit.

There aren't any pro-gay Christian leaders out there to invite to the shitty "Advisory Council"???? :mad: :mad: :mad:

Obama is getting a new fax from me.

[dbackjon]

61. Another FUCKING HOMOPHOBE appointed by Obama

Pattern, much

[krabigirl]

63. What a bunch of bullshit. This "faith-based" crap has got to go.

And, I knew Obama was going to further it, way back before he was nominated. It was so obvious from his website. I hate it.

[skepticscott]

156. But faith is a virtue

didn't you know that??? And deep and abiding faith is an even bigger virtue. If you're still not convinced, visit the Religion and Theology forum and ask all of the TB's there how wonderful an experience faith is.

[nichomachus]

64. I'm so glad things have changed so dramatically

:sarcasm:

[swishyfeet]

65. Here's a bit from Wiki on Dungy

He began a mentoring program for young people called Mentors for Life, and provided Buccaneers' tickets for the participants. He also supported other charitable programs in the area such as Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Boys and Girls Club, the Prison Crusade Ministry, foster parenting organizations, and Family First. His community involvement and care continues in Indianapolis where Tony helped launch the Basket of Hope program which aids patients at the Riley Hospital for Children. He continues to assist Big Brothers/Big Sisters and the Boys and Girls Club in Indianapolis. He also supports the Black Coaches Association National Convention and Indiana Black Expo.


Oh, he's a monster alright!

[QC]

66. Ed Gein was very kind to his mother. n/t

[swishyfeet]

70. Ed Gein was a psycho killer

From one of Dungy's books:

Our young men today are falling into a trap... Society is telling them material success is what's important, but if we buy into that idea, we can spend a lifetime chasing that success and never really have the positive impact on people that would make our lives truly significant

Comparing this to a man who used skullcaps as soup bowls is fucking idiotic.

[QC]

106. Insisting that an outspoken homophobe is actually a good guy is morally squalid,

and says a lot--none of it good--about anyone who makes such a statement.

[Bluebear]

289. :nodding:

[LostinVA]

117. And Dungy is an extremist bigot

[Oak2004]

285. What you cite is standard cliche' Christianity

Virtually all Christians would feel comfortable with that statement. The catch is how most Christians interpret it, and trust me, it's not generally "sell all your goods and give the money to the poor".

The typical Evangelical minister would interpret that, more or less, as "kids these days are all screwed up (thinking back on a mythical Golden Age that never existed), they need to join my church and contribute to church activities (most of which, most of the time, do nothing positive for the disadvantaged or the general community -- the activities in question merely promote the minister's religious beliefs)" If you could offer evidence that Dungy is not repeating a cliche', but is in fact pursuing a radical agenda of service in keeping with the New Testament, I'd be more impressed.

(And no, I'm not an angry atheist or whatever you'd like to call me. Far, very very far, from it. I'm just not impressed when I see hollow cliches thrown around by religious figures as if the cliches are profound. Most of what goes on in Evangelical churches in America today isn't just crappy, hateful, politics, it's hollow, empty, misguided, religion).

(And again no, I don't have it out for "all" Evangelicals :) One of the biggest influences on my spiritual development was a theologically conservative Evangelical minister (who was, ironically for this thread, gay).)

[foxfeet]

67. Here's another bit from USA Today:

"Two years ago, at an Indiana Family Institute dinner, Dungy embraced a move in Indiana to ban same-sex marriages. He was given the "Friend of Family" award."

more at:http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=cincinnati&sParam=34624564.story

He's no friend to GLBT people.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RedCappedBandit]

76. Being a homophobic fuck doesn't exclude a person from doing "work"

Whatever he has done, he is still, quite obviously, a heterosexist homophobe.

[Bluenorthwest]

83. Lots of every race is religiously conservative

And one's race does not mitigate one's status as a homophobe, as a bigot, and a person who practices prejudice. He could do all kinds of neat-o stuff, and still be a fucking Supremisist bigot.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

118. He IS a "homophobic fuck" (your words, not mine), and nothing he does negates his hate

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

158. Yeah and David Duke had some good qualities too.......

In fact I am pretty sure he was respected in his community.

He was still a racist fuck and this guy is still a hateful, nasty bigot.

[mitchtv]

71. yup he's a prick

a hateful one at that. Hitler loved dogs

[swishyfeet]

74. So now Dungy = Hitler and that guy from Psycho.

Got it.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. No, but he does equal Pat Robertson

and yes, Fred Phelps and all the other faith based haters. Same thing, in an uptown package. But the exact same thing. Same message.

[Zhade]

293. Ed Gein wasn't in PSYCHO. He was the inspiration for THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE.

Just sayin'.

[dsc]

78. If he were as racist as he is anti gay would you be OK with him on a White House board?

[mitchtv]

88. apparently being African American excuses him

He ican;t be a ohobe

[swishyfeet]

94. I'm not sure he's as anti gay as you think

He's an evangelical christian. I find some of their social views repugnant, but I don't know for sure that he's not okay with gays, but against gay marriage - which is a pretty mainstream view in some circles.

Look, I don't want to flame this up anymore, I simply don't get into hating people that you and I don't know particularly well. From what I know of him, he's a decent man.

I'm as against blind hatred as I am for anti gay views. That's all.

[Solon]

108. Oh for fucks sake, he's NOT a decent man...

Why the fuck are you defending him in this manner, this man opposes equal rights, how the fuck is that decent?

[Kaleva]

183. Those who voted for Obama

who has apparently appointed Dungy are enablers. Some may argue that Obama was the far lesser of two evils when compared to McCain and thus marriage rights for gays was a worthwhile sacrifice.

[Starry Messenger]

109. If you are against gay marriage

like this fellow, then you are no friend of gay folk.

[LostinVA]

119. I don't see an iota of "blind hatred" on this thread -- nice strawman

:eyes:

[WhollyHeretic]

132. Do you also call racists decent men?

[Marrah_G]

159. omfg.

I have to put you on ignore before I get in trouble.

Shame on you.

[TechBear_Seattle]

173. And opposing interracial marriage would not make one a racist, I suppose n/t

[Bluebear]

287. +1

[LooseWilly]

300. Did you write what I'm seeing here?

"I'm as against blind hatred as I am for anti gay views. That's all."

Did you just write that you are "for anti gay views"?

And, by the by, being against gay marriage is being anti-gay... unless you're also against hetero marriage, which I doubt you are.

[LostinVA]

116. He'a an out and proud bigot -- what civil right do YOU want to give up?

[OwnedByFerrets]

154. As long as they are straight??

[NMMNG]

216. Oooooh, nobody who operates a charity could be bad!

The Winter Aid (Winterhilfswerk ) was the Nazi Party charity. Each year there was a drive to solicit donations to help the needy. Contributions were not entirely "voluntary." The text translates as: "No one shall go hungry! No one shall be cold!" Photo courtesy of Dr. Robert D. Brooks.




Nazi Charity Poster
This poster advertises the Nazi charity, the NSV. The text translates: "Health, child protection, fighting poverty, aiding travellers, community, helping mothers: These are the tasks of the National Socialist People's Charity. Become a member!" Courtesy of Dr. Robert D. Brooks.

[Sebastian Doyle]

268. But but but..... Adolf was such a nice man!

Well, at least if you were a protestant heterosexual German, he was.

:sarcasm:

[nichomachus]

69. I'm not offended by a homophobe on the faith-based council

I'm offended that we still have a "faith-based" council. Faith-based is a euphemism invented by the right-wingers as a cover to break down the wall between church and state and to funnel tax money to religious organizations, allowing them to use it to proselytize.

This is crap -- I don't care which president does it.

[dflprincess]

153. I am offended by a homophobe on the faith-based council

The God I believe in does not like bigots using Her name to excuse their hateful, ignorant beliefs.

And I do agree with you completely about being offended by a faith based council being supported by tax dollars. This pandering to the right has got to stop.

[RedCappedBandit]

72. I'm sick of all this faith based bullshit.

[omega minimo]

75. Why are they keeping the Bogus Bushian term "FAITH-BASED"?

:puke:

[swishyfeet]

77. It's just a word - and might help people of faith warm to Democrats

I can't believe I'm somehow defending this...

[omega minimo]

79. it's not just a word, it's a propogandist invention of the Right Wing under Bushco.

[swishyfeet]

89. In my reality based world, "faith based" might attact votes

As long as it doesn't go too far, throw the fundies a bone for peace.

I find "family values" much more offensive propaganda.

[omega minimo]

102. It's Orwellian so "reality based" is questionable. It's a Right Wing meme used for the purpose

you propose: to appease Fundies -- and to insinuate religion into federal public assistance programs.

It's worth reconsidering the use of an Orwellian term invented by the Right Wing to do their dirty work.

[foxfeet]

85. Are you suggesting that there are few or no "people of faith" among Democrats?

Honest question, not intended to be snarky. Just to help me understand, how do you define the term "people of faith?"

[swishyfeet]

87. No, but Republicans have been courting them more actively

Honestly, I'm generally pretty hostile to organized religion, but I'm open to pandering if it gets who I want elected.

[Solon]

92. The type of people that people like Dungy attract ALREADY lost an election...

why should we pander to a constituency that is now becoming an ever shrinking minority?

[Zhade]

295. So what rights of YOURS are you willing to give up to pander?

NT!

[Zhade]

294. Maybe you should examine WHY you're defending bigotry and unconstitutional policies.

NT!

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Obama and DuBois are pro discrimination

But their dogma has no place in a secular government. At this point, it is clear that Obama is not an allie.

[KamaAina]

84. Shouldn't a faith-based council have, like, ministers 'n' stuff on it?

and a sprinkling of rabbis, imams, lamas, etc?

Dungy's sole qualification*, besides having coached the



:grr: , is jumping on the homophobia bandwagon at that banquet.

By analogy, since I have a bank account, I am as qualified to be Treasury Secretary as Tim Geithner. Oh, wait a minute...

[swishyfeet]

90. Advisory Council on Faith-Based *and Neighborhood* Partnerships

True, it should probably have soccer moms and Asian gangs too.

He's worked with Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Boys and Girls Club, the Prison Crusade Ministry, foster parenting organizations. But all you got was the homophobia bandwagon part?

Reasonable discussion just doesn't fly around here anymore does it?

[Solon]

91. Its not just homophobia, it would be the whole "he wants to keep people from having civil rights"...

part as well. I don't see what's so complicated about this, the guy is a bigot who hides behind his religion, in addition, he uses said religion to hinder the advancement of civil rights for Americans. Why should his so called "good works" even matter, there are overriding concerns here.

[KamaAina]

93. All this does is open up a whole new can of worms

Don't neighborhood groups deserve their own council, rather than being lumped in with the faith-based one?

Besides, if it's a neighborhood activist they're looking for, they should pick one from NOLA, perhaps the DUer who serves as an officer of the neighborhood association that pioneered the grassroots neighborhood-based organizing effort after the Federal Flood.

And what's with the "Asian gangs" stuff? Did you just go see that Clint Eastwood movie or something? :eyes:

[mitchtv]

95. If they were your rights being denied, I dare say

you would get only that part too. But since Obama picked him it is a good thing right?

[swishyfeet]

97. Maybe so, but then Tony Dungy not in a position to deny anyone's rights

It's not the "Council for Denying Gay Rights" is it?

There are an awful lot of people on this earth on the wrong side of gay rights. That's sad. Perhaps Tony Dungy can change his mind. In the mean time, he probably shouldn't be likened to a mass murderer.

Oh, and yes, I am a proud Obamabot.

[Bluebear]

96. What part of bigotry is "reasonable", do tell?

[swishyfeet]

98. I believe you just made my point.

You're implying that I say bigotry is reasonable. I did not.

[LostinVA]

121. When you excuse and defend an extreme bigot, then yes, you are saying it's "reasonable"

You also think it's good to have Dungy doing this, as it will "warm" certain folks to Obama, ie bigots.

[Zhade]

296. You defend a bigot giving aid and support to those who strip us of our rights.

Yeah, you're pretty much part of the fucking problem, asshole.

[hasidic acid]

99. You seem determined to defend a bigot. I have to wonder why.

...

[swishyfeet]

103. Say it. Please do.

I haven't been called a bigot before in my life and I'm excited to be among those arbitrarily labeled a bigot at DU.

You don't know jack shit about Tony Dungy, and couldn't care less about anything he may have done other than that he doesn't believe in gay marriage.

I wish he didn't think that way, but I spare my hatred for those who truly deserve it.

[hasidic acid]

120. First, I didn't call you a bigot, I merely observed that you are determined to defend one, and

second, I actually do know something about him...I was acquainted with his son in Tampa a few years ago. I don't have to know any more about someone than that he is a bigot to despise him. Your standards are obviously far more flexible.

[LostinVA]

122. You ARE an enabler and excuser of bigots, because you are defending and excusing bigots

[WhollyHeretic]

134. I did up above. You're welcome. When you call a bigot a decent man and tell people that are upset

about bigotry to STFU then I think the label fits.

[Zhade]

299. You're a sucker. He's playing people like you, and you can't even see it.

NT!

[Starry Messenger]

107. Most of these homophobes join forces with the causes you have mentioned here.

Do you know why? To convince people like you that they "aren't all bad". It provides the cover to make them socially acceptable to mainstream people who would otherwise find their homophobic views repugnant.

People like this are a menace.

[swishyfeet]

110. That's Diabolical!!

Here I thought helping to launch the Basket of Hope program for patients for the Riley Hospital for Children was done for admirable reasons.

I had no idea...

[Starry Messenger]

111. Then you might wish to educate yourself.

And quit telling the gay community what they don't know about homophobes. Do you think this is unfamiliar territory for many here? There are several people here who are activists who are involved in trying to combat the feel-good money men who use opposition to gay rights as an ATM for their fundie bullshit.

[swishyfeet]

112. It works both ways

How many people here stopped to find out anything about Tony Dungy before they started comparing him to the most evil men on this earth?

If people around here could ratchet down their rage for a minute, maybe we could have some more interesting/insightful dialogue. God knows I should have known better than to come anywhere near a discussion that might intersect the binary world of GLBT issues.

[Starry Messenger]

113. How do you know they didn't already know?

Your first post was extremely condescending in nature. A little list of things he has done for charity and "oh, what a monster." spoken with sarcasm. Did you also look up the work he did to prevent marriage equality when you were searching Dungy's biography?

And I have no idea what you mean by the binary world of GBLT issues. You are either pro-equal rights or you are not? Is that what you mean by "binary"?

[Kaleva]

172. absolutes are rare

Few people who call themselves pro-life actually support the position that abortion ought to be illegal even in the case of rape, incest, or when the life of the mother is at stake. Conversely, few who call themselves pro-choice actually believe a woman ought to have a right to an abortion at anytime during the pregnancy and for whatever reason.

[Starry Messenger]

177. I'm not sure what that had to do with my post.

Are you attempting to answer for the person who never came back to answer my question?

[Kaleva]

179. You are correct.

I thought I was responding to a comment you made in your post but after rereading, I see it's a question to another poster.

[Bluebear]

127. "the binary world of GLBT issues" - really, go to hell, OK?

[Marrah_G]

161. Everyone just needs to use the alert fuction

Don't allow yourselves to be baited by these people.

[QC]

182. But they truly are master baiters! n/t

[swishyfeet]

184. Alert on me?

Precisely what rule have I broken? To think I don't approve of gay marriage is beyond ridiculous. I just don't hate Tony Dungy.

There are a lot of people here that I respect - whose comments I enjoy reading (including yours), that have attacked ME personally.

Tony Dungy's ignorant views on GLBT issues don't mean he can't be a decent human being or even change those views. Perhaps some of his ancestors were slaves owned by George Washington. Washington isn't commonly compared to Hitler around here. I was simply burned out by the nastiness at DU yesterday and was trying to make a call for restraint.

[NorthernSpy]

187. I agree with you.

I don't think the appointment of Tony Dungy is an OMG!!!OUTRAGE!!!11! His voice will be only one of many on that council, and on the question of gay marriage, there won't be a consensus in favor of his view.


Actually, I'm leery of the whole "faith-based partnership" concept. But it is a fact that there are pressing needs in society that must be addressed, and if it's the people like Dungy who are stepping forward to do the work, then you go with what you've got.

[Forkboy]

203. What a douchebag.

[Jokerman]

136. Love that photo.

I'm waiting for the day when they scurry out of Indy in the dead of night, just like they did to Baltimore.

I don't think Mayflower is around to help anymore.

[Kaleva]

115. Obama believes marriage is between a man and a woman

Why anyone here is shocked or angered by the selection of Tony Dungy is beyond me. I don't think President Obama could be a member here at DU because of his views on gay marriage.

[hasidic acid]

123. Is there something in the rules that says members have to approve gay marriage?

I've read them 5 times and I don't see that...

[Starry Messenger]

124. Welcome hasidic acid.

I'm not sure why this has never been put in the main rules page, but Skinner clarified this issue in this post about 5 years ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1324374

[hasidic acid]

141. Thank you! I may have not been clear, I am 100% in favor of marriage for anyone who wants it.

I was just trying to learn. (I and my same gender partner have been together since 1981...we feel 'married' even if it's not approved)
:-)

[Jokerman]

138. Support of basic human rights would be nice.

If you don't support equal protection under the law, why call yourself a democrat?

[hasidic acid]

142. I absolutely support it, I was just trying to clarify the official position here.

My S.O. and I have been together for 28 years (we are both guys) and we live in a part of the country that's not especially friendly to our arrangement but our neighborhood is 99.92% accepting. :-)

[Reterr]

140. Skinner himself posted a thread about it once

That members are generally expected to be supportive of gay marriage (at least that was the gist if I remember right).
I can't seem to find it. Support of a basic civil right like marriage is (and should be imo) probably considered a given on a progressive board.


I really wish I could fall asleep and wake up in a world with fewer stupid and or hate-filled people. Aside of course from the bigotry of being against gay marriage, the other thing I just CANNOT get is the sheer bone-headed STUPIDITY of being against it. Specifically the types that say "Oh you know I don't hate gay people but marriage should be between a man and woman." If someone doesn't have some deep-seated mental problems that for whatever reason cause them to hate gay people, I really can't comprehend this bullshit about being specifically against gay marriage. Mind numbing stupidity...

[hasidic acid]

144. Thank you. I absolutely believe it should be an inalienable right but I can't quite find it in my

progressive soul to deny bigots the right to speak. I don't like it but ...well, there it is.

[Marrah_G]

163. If you don't then you are a bigot and will not be welcomed here.

Glad to see from your posts that you do support it.

[Kaleva]

167. President Obama would probably be flamed & tombstoned here

[Marrah_G]

168. Yes- he probably would

No one ever claimed he was a progressive.

[Kaleva]

169. I beg to differ

I think quite a few here during the general election and especially during the primaries claimed Obama was a progressive but I'd have to go back to old threads to find examples.

[Marrah_G]

170. Well they would be wrong.

[Kaleva]

171. Maybe

Back in early 2004, I spent much time at the Howard Dean forum reading the posts and making a comment myself every so often. What I found to be most interesting there was that so many liberals were enamored by a politician I considered, based on his record as governor and by his own statements, to be a pragmatic centerist.
I think there is a tendency amongst many to transpose their own views onto a politician despite evidence that particular politician has differing views and that there is anger and disappointment when the reality can no longer be glossed over or ignored.

[Marrah_G]

175. Your last sentence is so very true.

[NorthernSpy]

186. If so, then he's right not to take our opinions too seriously.

Tolerance is a two-way street.

[Solon]

192. Tolerance is NOT a two way street, if it were...

Then racists, anti-semites and many other types of bigots should be equally welcomed, yet they aren't, why is it that people lecture others on tolerating homophobia, how is it any different?

[NorthernSpy]

194. We were talking about tolerating our own Democratic president, Solon.

The problem is that some people can't seem to draw any meaningful distinction between Obama and the likes of David Dukkke.


And that's a problem. People who think like that are unreasonable.

[Solon]

195. Let's see, David Duke is against interracial marriage, Obama is against same sex marriage...

is there really a difference between those two views?

[NorthernSpy]

196. Apples and oranges. President Obama is not David Duke.

And between the issues of interracial marriage and same-sex marriage, there are more differences than similarities. As I've argued here in the past, it's not just the same debate all over again. It requires a different set of arguments.

[Solon]

198. Actually, the only argument that's new when comparing between the two...

is the argument that marriage is for the production of children and a same sex couple isn't capable of that. All the rest of the arguments, if you look at them, you could insert "interracial marriage" for "same sex/homosexual/gay marriage" and it would be the same arguments that were used 40+ years ago against interracial marriage.

[NorthernSpy]

200. Laws against interracial marriage were a recent innovation that altered a traditional right...

Whereas same-sex marriage was not something that any society recognized until very recently. In that respect, interracial marriage and same-sex marriage could scarcely be more different.


When the last remaining laws against interracial marriage were struck down in the United States, nothing about the institution itself changed: concepts such as presumption of paternity remained valid, and the language of the marriage license stayed the same. And yes, the cultural understanding that marriage is directed toward a couple's mutual creation and nurturing of new life also did not change.


These are things that do change when same-sex marriage is instituted. Mind you, that doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't argue for same-sex marriage. It just means that the "it won't change the basic institution" argument is not applicable here, unlike with the case for removing the bans on interracial marriage.

[Solon]

202. That's categorically false, same sex marriages were recognized in ancient cultures in Southeast...

Asia and Europe, Indigenous tribes in America and Africa, etc. Marriage itself changed definition many times over the years in Western Civilization, and if you count 500+ years as "recent" then what you say is true, but for much of American history, anti-miscegenation laws were the NORM, so it WAS changing the definition of marriage.

I didn't know I was debating with someone who is so obviously ignorant of the history of marriage.

[Solon]

207. To make my point further...

From the joint tomb of Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, two royal servants of Nyuserre Ini a Pharaoh of Egypt, at around 2400 B.C.



Note that in Egyptian terminology their names mean "joined in life" and "joined in death", in ancient Egyptian society, marriage wasn't really formalized as it is today, generally, it involved nothing more than "shacking up" in other words, moving in together. Would we, today, have considered them married by our standards? No, but then again, no other Egyptian couple was "married" back then by our standards either, excluding what we call common law marriage.

[NorthernSpy]

210. I'm sorry, but that is really a S T R E T C H...

You're looking at a painting, and creating the meanings that you want to find.

[Solon]

215. Uhm, you do realize that they have DOCUMENTS of this union, do you not?

This is Egypt we are talking about, and its not just one painting, but an entire fucking tomb.

[NorthernSpy]

228. Okay, you're looking at a whole bunch of paintings...

... and seeing what you want to see.


:shrug:

[Solon]

241. Yeah, if you consider hieroglyphics to be "just a bunch of paintings"...

Jesus fucking Christ, buy a fucking clue, would ya?

[Starry Messenger]

246. Oh, well, at least she's keeping the thread kicked.

I love it when people who claimed to be bored to death by these threads keep them at the top of the forum for hours.

[Solon]

247. Let's not mention that some Roman Emperors married men, shall we?

She might blow a fuse on that one.

[Starry Messenger]

250. Roman Emperors? Did they exist?

You got that from a bunch of marble statues, didn't you? :D

[Solon]

252. Heehee, yes I did, after all, its not like the Romans wrote anything down...

ever. :D

[closeupready]

286. ROFL - I was actually annoyed at first at your adversary; now I'm having a good laugh.

:rofl:

[NorthernSpy]

254. Cute.

But no, seriously: just because a Roman Emperor had a man as a lover does not mean that he was in a same-sex marriage.

[Solon]

258. Did I mention lovers? No I did not, I mentioned MARRIAGE...

if you can't tell the difference, I can't help you, there are at least two documented instances of Roman Emperors GETTING MARRIED to MEN, from both Nero and Elagabalus, and archeologists aren't sure how many more had such marriage ceremonies.

[Bluebear]

297. Her ignorance just has no boundaries.

[Bluebear]

298. .

[NorthernSpy]

208. Reminds me of how people have claimed there were matriarchies...

... "in ancient cultures in Southeast Asia and Europe, Indigenous tribes in America and Africa, etc," where women presumably ruled. That was wishful thinking, too.


When people claim to have found culturally-recognized same-sex marriages in human history, they're usually misunderstanding the rare institution of group marriage.

[Solon]

212. Talk about apples and oranges! I never claimed it was either widespread...

nor common. And comparing the claim, BASED ON ACTUAL EVIDENCE, with long debunked claims of some "lost ancient civilization" that was a powerful matriarchy is unjustified.

You seem to have a misunderstanding yourself about things such as "two spirit marriages" that some North American Indigenous tribes practiced, in addition, it wasn't until Christian Emperor Constantius II that the Roman Empire banned same sex marriage, so apparently it was practiced before then.

[closeupready]

206. You are completely incorrect. Same-sex marriage has been recognized

in many cultures, as Solon points out. You missed the mark on that one by a mile.

[NorthernSpy]

211. Nope.

Look, just because something didn't exist in the past doesn't mean that we can't have it in the future.


The point is that there were reasons why it didn't exist previously, and those reasons have to be taken into account now. I believe that this holds the key to why so many people have balked at the concept of same-sex marriage, even if they're with us on most other things.

[Solon]

217. So basically you are discounting Roman, Greek, Native American and many other cultures customs...

because it makes you uncomfortable?

[NorthernSpy]

238. I'm discounting it because your evidence...

... consists of you making up a caption for some old tomb art.

[Solon]

242. I didn't make up shit. n/t

[closeupready]

283. "Nope"?? WTF. Hate to break it to you, but reality is not based in your ignorance.

It's based upon something called facts that you learn in books. Pick one up sometime, and read it.

To repeat, you are completely wrong. R. O. N. G.

[Hippo_Tron]

305. True, but that belief wasn't strong enough to get him to support Prop 8

[BlueJac]

126. Faith-Based has no business in government.

I keep wanting and hoping for change. Maybe we should change it to "Hope-Based" and bring in real people with hope.

[RetroLounge]

128. What's the problem?

Was Rick Warren busy?

:puke:

Obama needs to disband faith-based everything in government.

RL

[flvegan]

135. Fuck any "Faith Based Council" in government.

All the shit like that should have been dragged out the front door with that miserable hack, Bush.

Church and State, enjoy your shared quarters.

Fuckers.

[cliffordu]

137. K&R

This is completely fucked up. The White House should know better.

[ruggerson]

218. This passes the pony test eh?

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beregond2]

143. I couldn't care less if he throws a sop to the Evangelicals now and then.

[Bluebear]

147. Well bully for you!

[Brooklyns_Finest]

145. Dungy

As a football coach, I really liked Tony Dungy. He always ran his team in a stand up way. To me, he was one of the most honorable men in the NFL. He continues to be a positive role model to young black men and many aspiring african american football coaches. It was a real tragedy when his son died a few years ago.

As far as his political views go, it is no surprise that a religiously conservative african american would have different opinions than most people on a site like this--at least on social issues. Instead of calling Dungy a monster (which is absurd), the blame should go to president Obama for not creating a more inclusive council.

As an African American, I do fine Obama's callousness towards the gay community ironic. It used to be the white politician who would get our votes, only to cast us aside once in office. It seems that things have changed, and the gay community has taken the role that the black community knows oh-so-well. Then again, I am sure many gays will say that they have been dealing with this "okie doke" from politicians for years.

For what its worth, I think when it is all said and done, Obama will be the most progressive president ever, when it comes to gay rights. Then again, I could be wrong.........

[Bluebear]

148. So far, it's not a record of which he can be proud. nt

[mitchtv]

164. just try and blame Obama for anything

and the fan club will be all over you . But of course you are right Obama named him , he didn't name himself to the board, I take a dim view of being used for a vote, he'd best do something good for us and soon. All I can to is stay home next time and keep my money

[NorthernSpy]

189. "All I can do is stay home next time and keep my money"

:rofl:


After the McClurkin war, DU was rife with people promising to do just that.


Either they didn't follow through, or they did and it didn't matter. Either way:


:rofl:

[mitchtv]

190. we shall see, now won't we?

I have no where else to go? no freedom ? I'll leave slots blank. I have never threatened to dump the Dem since I wrote in Gene McCarthy. and will again if necessary . YOU DON'T KNOW ME. I am too old to fuck around

[NorthernSpy]

193. Mister, I don't care what you do.

:boring:

[Starry Messenger]

201. Then why are you in this thread?

I mean, if you don't really care and all...

[ruggerson]

220. apparently, because she likes to taunt people who don't have equal rights

akin to the types, many years ago in the south, who threw rocks at children just trying to go to school.

[NorthernSpy]

225. OMG... you're really comparing yourself to the Little Rock Nine?

Dude...


:crazy:

[ruggerson]

230. I'm comparing you to the people who mocked them and tried to hurt them

look in the mirror

[NorthernSpy]

256. except that you'll note that I'm not the one hurling profanities...

I'm staying civil. But not everyone who is disagreeing with me is.


It's okay, tho. I've got a reasonably thick skin for this sort of thing.

[Starry Messenger]

260. What sort of "thing is this", exactly?

You started in at post #189, evidently to re-fight the primaries and to display your awesome breadth of historical knowledge. Was there some actual point to this for you?

[Forkboy]

262. Laughing at the fact that your fellow human beings don't have your rights is civil?

I've got a reasonably thick skin for this sort of thing.

I would think anyone who was this stupid for any length of time would have to develop a thick skin.

Stuff your phony, self-righteous civility up your ass.

[NorthernSpy]

266. No, I laugh off the ultimatum, as I said.

Because we've heard that threat a thousand times before.

[Forkboy]

267. Which is essentially laughing at gay people.

Well done.

[NorthernSpy]

269. Only if you think that one individual has the authority to represent a larger group...

Just by virtue of belonging (?) to that group.


I don't make that assumption. I wonder why you do.

[Forkboy]

270. Does Obama represent the larger group of Democrats, or just himself?

[NorthernSpy]

274. Well, we elected him.

So he does have the authority to represent us in many respects.

[Forkboy]

276. So one person can represent a larger group then.

[NorthernSpy]

277. Sure, IF we elect him.

But generally not otherwise.

[Forkboy]

279. Not generally? So sometimes then, right?

[Starry Messenger]

272. Mitchtv is a person.

Maybe you should remember that human beings from actual meatspace post here instead of just rofling at their helplessness from your anonymous and privileged place of full rights of a citizen. Just a thought, since you get so "personally insulted" despite having a "thick skin for this type of thing".

[LooseWilly]

301. *Laughing at an ultimatum*? I have only two words: Ralph Nader

You know why I voted for him? Because Gore's wife went on a crusade against rock music, and especially punk rock. I was/am never going to cast a vote for Tipper's husband for any office.

Funny thing about dismissing threats of walking away from the Democratic Party, you sometimes wind up with a Bush in the WH as a result...

[NorthernSpy]

224. It's just that I got my fill of these ultimatums during the Primary Wars...

Before then, I cared about people's feelings.


What ticks me off is that many of the same people who threatened to scuttle Obama's campaign before the election, because their gal didn't win the nomination, are trying to tear down his presidency -- no matter how desperately we and the country as a whole need for him to succeed. I'm tired of it.

If such people want to go, then why would I move to stop them?

[Starry Messenger]

226. Yes, I can see that words on a message board

will bring down the entire future of the presidency. All the people here voted for Obama for the General. If you get to vote you get to complain. That's the social compact.

If you can't at least be polite about human rights issues, you should keep yourself out of them. Your ignorance exposes itself for our horrified amusement every time you step a toe in these waters.

[Forkboy]

227. "Before then, I cared about people's feelings."

[ruggerson]

229. Yes, it's all the fault of gay people who didn't support Obama in the primaries

they are to blame for homophobic ministers being appointed to government councils and speaking at inaugurations.

It's all their fault.

Even if they supported Obama in the fall, support him now, but find this pattern of cozying up to bigots to be insulting.

[NorthernSpy]

235. I found a lot of what happened during the primaries insulting...

Just as I find your post insulting to me personally.

[Forkboy]

237. Baby.

Like you've been the model of kindness and understanding. :eyes:

[NorthernSpy]

243. kindness and understanding do not always lead to agreement

Because there are so many people needing kindness, and so many things to be understood. And they don't all agree with each other.

[Forkboy]

245. Reread those words...then reread some of your posts here.

[ruggerson]

239. So did people on both sides

the primaries are long done with.

President Obama, whom I support enthusiastically, has a lot of work to do.

And, I assure you, being pressured to do the right thing on equal rights for gay American citizens does not tear him down.

And if we succeed, and he does the right thing, it will only serve to further brightly burnish his place in the history books.

[NorthernSpy]

248. I'm getting a mixed message about that stuff.

On the one hand, there's "ex-gay" activist Donnie McClurkin, whose participation in an Obama campaign event legitimizes outrage until the end of time.

On the other hand, there are things like the infamous "hard-working Americans -- white Americans" ploy. The behavior surrounding that stuff is apparently something that we're supposed to forgive and forget forever -- or else.


And that just seems like a double standard to me.


The result is that some people are empowered to hurl charges of bigotry, and some of us are not.

[Starry Messenger]

253. I guess you must be *really* pissed at Obama, then...

Psst: You may not have heard, SOS Clinton works for him now. Come out of the hills, the Great War is over.

[ruggerson]

271. Yes I saw that post

where you insinuated that the anger over McClurkin and now Dungy somehow was racially inspired.

The flaw in your hypothesis is that there was just as much anger about Rick Warren, who, last I looked, was white.

All three situations are about the same simple principle: standing in opposition to the giving of power to (and enabling) homophobes.

Curious that you don't find that objectionable.

[NorthernSpy]

273. here ya go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5367070&mesg_id=5371647


From this very thread, and apropos of nada mucho.

[Bluebear]

191. Hahaha! Those gays have nowhere else to go! ROFL! LMAO! - - -Idiot.

[Forkboy]

205. Your concern over the rights of your fellow humans is deeply touching.

[ruggerson]

209. Wow, we've got a live bigot on our hands

n/t

[Starry Messenger]

213. I guess you missed the day this person claimed that transpersons

are a "superstition". That was awesome. :sarcasm:

[Solon]

219. Yeah, why wasn't he banned for that again, I thought transphobia wasn't allowed here. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

222. Evidently it isn't transphobia if you just have

"a difference of opinion". I mean, what does the AMA know? They'd probably just implant gills in all of us if they thought they could get away with it.

[Solon]

223. Or the APA, I love it that this guy tries to portray himself as "reasonable" when he...

discounts years of study from mainstream associations and fields of study from hundreds, if not thousands of scientists.

[NorthernSpy]

232. I'm a she. If you're going to smear me, at least be accurate.

:eyes:

[ruggerson]

234. you smeared yourself without us helping you at all

you're covered in it.

[NorthernSpy]

236. Nope. I've said specifically what annoys me about this whole debate.

Here's a clue: it's not gays.

[Forkboy]

240. Yes, post #189 by you clearly shows how much you care about gay people.

[Starry Messenger]

244. Yep, she's a giver.

A caring nurturer.

[NorthernSpy]

251. I wasn't talking to "gay people". I was talking to one individual.

Individuals DO exist, you know. It's not all about group identities.

[Solon]

255. But the question is, what group do you identify with, "Ignoramus Anonymous"? n/t

[Starry Messenger]

257. So potentially hurting the feelings of one DU-er

to make a point, even though you don't know anything about him except he is gay and a longtime member of the Democratic Party WAS your intention...nice.

[NorthernSpy]

261. Nice try.

But no, I was talking to an individual about something that that particular individual said.


And as for actually seeking to hurt his feelings -- please...


:eyes:

[Starry Messenger]

264. Well, he mentioned that he was elderly

and that he didn't have much time left. So I guess we can add mocking old people to the list of your abundant charms.

[Forkboy]

259. You used the words "gays"...plural, saying they weren't your problem.

But you wrote this, which clearly shows that you don't give two shits about anyone but yourself.

"Before then, I cared about people's feelings."

And this, which also highlights just how much you actually care whether or not people have the same rights that you do. This is your response to gay people NOT having the rights you have...

:rofl:


After the McClurkin war, DU was rife with people promising to do just that.


Either they didn't follow through, or they did and it didn't matter. Either way:


:rofl:

Yes, it's hilarious that they're still second class citizens. And now you're claiming in another post that you're civil? I guess you've found a polite way to shit on people. :eyes:

[NorthernSpy]

263. That's the most creative interpretation yet!

You're kidding, right?


:wow:


I mean only what I actually say. Not whatever bizarre thing you prefer to read into it.

[Forkboy]

265. And I commented on what you said.

:rofl:


After the McClurkin war, DU was rife with people promising to do just that.


Either they didn't follow through, or they did and it didn't matter. Either way:


:rofl:

Perhaps you can show me where you're being misunderstood?

[NorthernSpy]

275. Okay, here's where you've gone wrong...

You've assumed "people" at DU "promising to do just that" adds up to: gays.


And that is a false assumption.


I meant exactly what I said, and nothing more.

[Forkboy]

278. Because many of the people who promised to do that were gay.

So no, there's no false assumption. And you laughed because they failed, which means there are HUMAN BEINGS out there don't have the same rights as you, and you find that funny.

I meant exactly what I said, and nothing more.

We know.

[NorthernSpy]

280. Oh, really?

What makes you think that?

[Forkboy]

281. Because many have spoken out about these issues long before Obama was even a candidate.

What makes you think they aren't?

[Starry Messenger]

284. Is it me, or did it get quiet in here suddenly...

:D

[Solon]

292. Damn, I'm dissapointed, Miss "Know-it-all" doesn't want to play anymore....

x(

[LooseWilly]

302. If it's not gays that annoy you in this debate...

Then clearly, Northern Spy, it must be marriage that you hate.

Ahh, I see it now... you're beginning your crusade by supporting the inclusion of those who oppose gay marriage... and then, once that platform of your agenda is secure, you mean to prop up those who oppose miscegenation (mixed race marriage, since judging by your reaction to facts earlier in the thread, I also have some doubts about the breadth of your vocabulary)... and, once that platform is re-enacted into public policy... then you'll be ready to administer a final coup de grace (I don't seem to have a French hat for my grace... ohh, and that is a term for finishing off a helpless opponent...) to the entire institution of marriage !!

A glorious plan... to be sure.

Am I getting warm?

[Solon]

249. Well excuse me, oh, and it isn't a smear when its true. n/t

[EmilyAnne]

307. There hasn't really been another election to sit out or donate money to.

Just sayin'.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

149. "It's not about SPEED its about DIRECTION."

A great quote from another thread that applies to this.
I don't like where this is (still) headed.

[kid a]

150. so, does a rec for this mean its great news? why recommend a story like this?

I don't get it - on to the GREATEST for this?

You are stuck with a President who is a Christian and who will reach out to other Christians - even if they don't believe in gay marriage.

That's the story. Not a great story. I don't like the story - but, not a story worthy of our GREATEST.


:wtf:

[cliffordu]

165. I K&R'd it to get it in front of as many eyes as possible.

There are times when the only thing I look at is the greatest page....

[Starry Messenger]

166. I think of it as "recommended reading"

Not because it is great news.

[NorthernSpy]

188. it probably just means that they think it's an important story...

... and so people should read it.

Doesn't necessarily mean that they think it's awesome news.

[Riverman]

157. His son commited suicide at 18 when Dungy was going for the Super Bowl.

Was his son gay? Dungy seemed at the time to be estranged from his son and actually very cold about his son's death, no emotion, just went back to coaching for the Super Bowl. Just always wondered if he could not handle the possibility that his son was gay. I don't have a clue if his son was gay, or why his son committed suicide. I never had a warm feeling about Dungy well before that time.

[TechBear_Seattle]

160. Come on, its only a two minute prayer

I mean, it's not like he is being appointed to a policy position or anything. :eyes:

Seriously, is anyone still surprised when shit like this happens?

[tomm2thumbs]

178. keep your friends close - and those enemies even closer!

better in the tent of discussions than out of it - unless I see it is otherwise proving to be unproductive

[QC]

181. Problem is, Obama doesn't seem to consider bigoted religious fanatics enemies. n/t

[Name removed]

185. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jakes Progress]

199. No one is perfect.

This is one area where Obama's frailty is evident. We can only hope that he can rise above this the same way Truman did for his racism.

He's got a few years to try. I'm betting on him.

[TWiley]

214. There should be NO "Faith-Based Council" in the first place

Why give superstitious and paranoid people any credibility?

[ismnotwasm]

233. "The Lord"?

Meaning Jesus? Jesus was loudly silent on the topic. Or is he referring to Paul, or the God of the OT? I'll never understand these people and their fucked up cherry picking of the bible.

I think I'll convert. I'm gonna work real hard to believe in Jesus. Well maybe not, but if I did, MY Lord would love and approve of gay love and marriage as a simple civil right and condemn all homo hate mongers to scrubbing bathrooms toilets with toothbrushes in quantum hell.

[alarimer]

282. Dungy is pretty much why I hate "faith-based" anything.

"Faith" provides cover for out and out bigotry. So I have nothing but utter disdain for this faith based office crap.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

288. Ugh.

:thumbsdown:

We need to get rid of this "faith-based" bullshit. It's insane and not worthy of an industrialized nation.

[New Dawn]

303. I thought the Democratic Party was supposed to be socially liberal.

And that was supposed to be the main difference between it and the GOP...

[Hippo_Tron]

306. It's all relative, compared to the GOP we are quite socially liberal

Remember that the mainstream of the GOP is arguing for embryo rights and teaching of creationism in our schools. Relatively speaking the Democratic Party is quite socially liberal compared to the Republicans. In Western Europe, however, we would probably be closer to their conservative parties on social issues than their leftist parties.

[ErinBerin84]

308. he ended up not being on the council

I don't know if it was pressure from the left, or if the initial leak for simply inaccurate.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/Dungy_doesnt_make_cut.html

Dungy doesn't make cut

The White House released its new faith advisory council today, and, contrary to early leaks, former Colts coach Tony Dungy isn't on it.

Dungy, who backed an Indiana gay marriage ban, had drawn fire from gay rights advocates.

One who did make the council: Human Rights Campaign's Harry Knox.

The list includes conservative figures from groups including the Southern Baptist Convention and Orthodox Union, but the overall tilt is to the religious left.