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Mr. President, Single Payer Healthcare is the only system we CAN afford !!!!

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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:51 AM
Original message
Mr. President, Single Payer Healthcare is the only system we CAN afford !!!!
Edited on Fri Mar-27-09 12:55 AM by Faryn Balyncd





What we can NO LONGER afford to let insurance corporations skim off their 31% "administrative" cut. (regardless of whether they agree cover pre-existing conditions or not.)


The reality is, we need to spend every dime of our health care dollar on actual HEALTH CARE, not bonuses to MBA corporatists.


Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans support a Single Payer health care system.


2 recent polls have show between 53% and 65% of Americans support expanding Medicare or a public program similar to Medicare cover all Americans.




"...53% supported the idea of extending Medicare to cover all Americans, creating a government-run system; and 36% opposed it."

www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/blog/shum-pre...









Howard Dean says expanding Medicare is essential to real health care reform:





Howard Dean: Real Health Reform ‘Rises And Falls On Whether The Public Is Allowed To Choose Medicare’



“If Barack Obama’s bill gets changed to exclude the public entities, it is not health insurance reform…it rises and falls on whether the public is allowed to choose Medicare if they’re under 65 or not. If they are allowed to choose Medicare as an option, this bill will be real health care reform. If they’re not, we will be back fighting about it for another 20 years before somebody tries again.”





VIDEO







Single Payer is NOT an ideal we "can't afford".....


Quite the contrary......


It happens to be, not just the best system, but the only system we CAN afford!


What we CAN NOT afford is to give a few more trillion in corporate welfare to the very insurance corporations who got us into our present health care mess, (and who make their money not by providing healthcare, but by inefficiently denying care.)


We have no business using now federal power to give the insurance corporations a government mandated monopoly.




So why have we hired a "White House adviser" who wants to PRIVATIZE MEDICARE with NO PUBLIC COMPETITION?


Isn't it time we listened to Dr. Howard Dean instead?







:kick:







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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why fight it when we can simply give people the choice to pick
medicare?

Forget shouting single payer. That won't fly.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. If people can choose Medicare, why would employers still offer benefits?
I don't really get that.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Well if employers stopped subsidizing and everyone went to
Medicare that wouldn't be such a bad outcome would it?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Right, and then it would essentially be Single Payer n/t
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. And it would be completely voluntary.
This is so damned easy...or it should be.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Maybe benefits include other rewards. Better hours, trips, etc....
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. Allow the free market to determine what consumers want,
Medicare or private health insurance.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I actually agree with you........(allowing people to opt in to Medicare is perhaps the most feasible


route. It will force the insurance companies to be more price competitive in the near term. In the longer term, people will probably choose the more affordable public option, leading to a near Single Payer system.

The real danger we are facing is the threat of privatizing Medicare, which is what Zeke Emanuel is pushing, and is what Howard Dean knows we must stop.

Privatized, voucherized mandated insurance with no public option is the antithesis of real reform.




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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Guess we can't trust those Emanuels then.
I'm glad Howard isn't in the administration. He would have been hog tied.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm waiting to see what this admin will do. I won't second guess them,
I won't disparage them, and I will listen to what is doable. There are a lot of people intent on this.

Have faith. Or try.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Waiting To See What They Will Do Will Be Too Late To React When They Do It.......
now is the time to speak up and voice your opinion. Insurance companies are to blame to the high costs and problems we have with our healthcare system today.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I like your spirit.......


and I have faith in our president.

We should not disparage those of goodwill.

And pragmatism - a doable outcome - has its place.

But should we not be cautious of corporatist influence, even in the idealistic administration we elected?



It appears to me that Zeke Emanuel is a well meaning person, who deserves respect, and who should not be personally disparaged.

But does not the elimination of public options, as he has been promoting (in the Emanuel/Fuchs Healthcare Access plan), and the mandated purchase of private insurance without a public option, strike you as a corporatist dream?

No less a person than Howard Dean has said that such an elimination of public options is NOT health care reform at all.

I think the great majority of Americans, not just Democrats, agree.

It would seem that the only accurate term for such a "reform" would be the "privatization of Medicare".

And it would seem, that, if this were to be accomplished, it would be a step in the wrong direction that would be most difficult to reverse.

Howard Dean feels strongly enough about this to repeatedly (and unequivocally) state his position, which is diametrically opposite to that of Zeke Emanuel.

What are your thoughts on this?

In advocating faith, do you think that we should not worry about this deliberation?














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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. What makes you think 'Zeke' is steering this boat?
What do you think Senator Kennedy is working so hard for? Even Hatch might be on board.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=435919

I don't know the particulars, but I do know there have been people working for years to try to find an equitable healthcare agreement that would work for the majority.

How about small steps, is that forbidden?

And Dr. Dean, as well regarded as he is, doesn't have all the answers either. Is he proposing something that no one will get behind, or not enough people to make a difference?

Pragmatism has to rule in this country, but something needs to be done.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. While he's not steering the boat, he is advising the captain to shut down public options.......



Rather than being a "small step", such privatizing of Medicare would be a huge step in the wrong direction.


A positive "small step" (incremental) approach - allowing younger Americans to choose to opt in to Medicare, as Dr. Dean and others support - would not give insurance corporations a government mandated monopoly, and would allow Americans to choose a truly cost effective public option.


Does Hatch have a better perspective on this than Dr. Dean?







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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Can you direct me to the final
healthcare plan this admin has settled on, because I don't think they are anywhere near a resolution. As for Hatch vs. Dean, I frankly don't know about either one. Saw that article yesterday about Hatch's connection to Kennedy so thought I'd share.

As for Dean, sorry he's not involved in any decision-making in this admin, but he's not.

Kennedy is and has been fighting for healthcare for years. I think I'll just wait to see what they all come up with before throwing stones at anyone, even Zeke. And you don't have a clue what Zeke is saying, do you? I haven't seen him sharing much.

iow, much ado about nothing yet.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. I think you are correct that these issues have not been settled.........



And it would appear that Dr. Dean does not believe that the president is necessarily wedding to changing his eventual proposal to include eliminating public options.

The proposal to eliminate, rather than open up, Medicare, and to create a totally privatized, mandated, and voucher supported system, has been promoted by Emanuel & Fuchs for several years. Two summaries are here: http://www.robert-h-frank.com/PDFs/Emanuel-Fuchs.NEJM.3-24-05.pdf and http://www.healthcareguaranteed.org/hcatglance.htm .

I personally believe that though Zeke Emanuel has good intentions, such a plan would be disastrous, and would put us on a path difficult to retrace.

There are 3 aspects of the Emanuel/Fuchs plan that its proponents would clearly like to keep under the radar: (1) that it would totally privatize Medicare, (2) it would mandate the purchase of private insurance, and (3) as a voucher supported system, it would be much more vulnerable to evolving into an unfunded mandate (as compared to Medicare or Medicaid) - - - - - All that would be required would be for a future right wing administration or Congress to hold voucher funds stable in the face of insurance price rises. Such a development would, rather than creating universal health care, destroy Medicare.

With Dr. Dean believing it vital to participate in these deliberations, do you really believe it best to just "wait & see"?






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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. I strongly agree with the thrust of the post that suggests that
Edited on Sat Mar-28-09 10:36 PM by JDPriestly
we simply cannot afford to keep private insurers among the options. They executive pay in health insurance companies is a huge problem. Here are a couple of examples

Here is some information from 2005 - Business Week

Name Company Total Value of Options (Latest Fiscal Year) Total Compensation (Latest Fiscal Year)
Larry C. Glasscock WellPoint Inc. $1.3 MILLION $46.2 MILLION

William W. McGuire UnitedHealth Group Inc.$806 MILLION $10 MILLION

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_14/b3927433_mz080.htm

These are a couple of examples. Not all these executives are this well paid, but even if the executives of other companies are receiving only half this much, it is too much of a burden on the public.

If you have single-payer, you save all the money paid for advertising and also for determining eligibility, etc.
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Sorry - If You Wait And See - It Will Be Too Late......
now is the time to speak up. As for Kennedy - he's in the back pocket of big insurance and pharma. Any universal plan he comes up with will be to their liking and not real reform. We will be told it is 'reform and good for us'. They will use Kennedy and unfortunately his illness to sell it to us. We'll be manipulated to believe them and nothing really will change for the better.

Don't wait to speak up if you have passionate ideas as to what this 'healthcare plan' should be. Speak now or forever pay increasing premiums for decreasing care.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. It won't ever be "doable" if we stop insisting that it be done n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. And then reality smacks you in the face, and nothing gets done.
This is going to be a fight. We will get what is 'doable'. If we're lucky.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. In the real world, if $3000 is my bottom line acceptable offer for my used car--
--I'd be seriously stupid to ask for it. Most people, just using plain common sense, would ask for at leat $5000. You don't lead with a compromise--not EVER! That's equivalent to saying "I surrender, so now let's negotiate."
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. You don't lead with a compromise-- you got it, eridani! n/t
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. You "won't second guess them?" "Have faith?"
Not in politicians. Ever. No thank you. :puke:
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
40. You sit on your butt and wait and see--I will be active.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
45. Can we really believe them when they tell us what is doable?
The priority is to help the rich wall street firms and continue to have a war. Your money or your life health insurance reform is really not a priority IMO, it's just a temporary distraction and it will go no where IMO.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
7. I would also like to see single payer, but I think it's inrealistic to
think enough people would accept it as a great idea right out of the box. Americans are far too afraid of change that dramatic. I still think Obama's idea of keeping what you have if you like it, but you still have the opportunity to buy into medicare if you choose is the best way to go at first. I know the insurance companies hate that, but I think over time people will see the medicare plan is a great idea, and slowly they will convert, thus putting the insurance companies in the position of providing processing and providing additional coverage for unusual things like cosmetic sugury, or other things that would be outside of the norm.

I also have a question. What would happen to all the thousands of insurance agents? I think we have to be careful here that we don't create a lot more unemployed people.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. You have sound concerns......


.....And while I believe that Single Payer is the best outcome, I think the actual practical route to Single Payer is through such a voluntary system (as you describe) of younger people opting in to Medicare.

While such an option will likely lead to Single Payer, eliminating Medicare by forcing future retirees to continue with private insurance (as mandated in the Emanuel/Fuchs proposal) would seem to make an evolution into Single Payer impossible.

And such privatization of Medicare, and the elimination of public options, is the present danger of which Howard Dean is warning.





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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Is 53% to 65% not "enough people"?
In poll after poll (now and during CLinton's administrion's try at reforming healthcare), the American public weighed in in favor of single-payer. It is our politicians, who afterall represent corporate America and its owners first and foremost, who find single-payer "unpopular". It is our lackey major media who sell the ideas -- on corporate America's behalf -- that it is "unpopular" or "politically impossible" or "America isn't ready yet".

We have a transformative opportunity of a lifetime here (of several liftimes) -- insist on Single Payer Now!!
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. What happened to the thousands of Pullman Porters?
Or PBX operators? What happened to the thousands of Ice Delivery men, milk men, the thousands of livery owners, when history brought improvments and change? Should we have refused the appliance and kept the Ice Man in business? Did we forgo automobiles for the sake of the blacksmiths? And what makes the insurance sales folks special in that regard? I have always been told that a salesperson can sell anything, so perhaps they could continue as sales people, which is what they are?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. Since 1999, I have seen polls both unofficial and official and
65% to 70% of those participating have been in favor of it. Insurance agents will still be selling other kinds of insurance and maybe a repackaged type of health insurance like they do in Canada. That health insurance covers what Medicare doesn't like private hospital rooms, private twenty four hour nursing care, plastic surgery, etc.. Basic medical care would be still under Medicare. As far as insurance company personnel processing claims, many of them are nurses and would be employed in the new system. Very few people would become unemployed and for them the Medicare for all bill, HR676, has a provision for retraining and unemployment until they can be reemployed.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
55. I agree with you, napi21
Let Medicare compete with the private companies and see what people prefer.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
58. If we go to single-payer, the focus will shift to delivering
preventive care and regular care. A better preventive care system will provide work for these sales and business agents -- doing something truly useful instead of what they are doing.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm going to shout for single payer.
No matter what we end up with, I will shout for the best-case scenario.

If I could end our need for gasoline, I'd do that too - the gas station folks will find other gigs. Greater good served.
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm starting to wish Dean had run. C'mon Barack. This is essential
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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
16. Let it be known I will always knr posts for single payer or public insurance. KNR
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. This op is absolutely right and the President is wrong NOW. Enough.
We will get the profiteers out of American health care when enough of us demand it.

I do not care that he talked kindly about single payer but did not run on it. If the Democrats fail on this again and again, some people who haven't already are going to figure out that Democrats cannot get the job done. Who praised the President for speaking to us like we were adults. He talks to us like he can't get the job done when it comes to health care. I am willing to give him time, but time doesn't seem to be the problem, it is will.

If we want to kill the Republican Party, we need single payer option, just eliminate the age limits on medicare and let people buy in NOW. How freaking hard is that? I do not want the health care industry to compromise until they can get a Republican Congress, President, or more NEW Dems.

We can no longer afford profiteers in the health care INDUSTRY.

The Republicans are worried about single payer more than any other issue because they know they will be tombstoned as a party. If you want to argue the President should ignore the American people or delay, I think you are kicking his legs off from under him. I do not trust his advisers and I do not respect a lot of the excuses and delays coming from the President, pragmatist though he may well be.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. Absolutely!
:yourock:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
19. Obama has given his answer. We're shit outta luck.

Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual. Bidness as usual. Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.Bidness as usual.

Anything that has anything to do with corporate profits is bidness as usual. A little 'feel good' for the rest of us.

Meanwhile the internet obamanauts seem to think that reefer is the most pressing question of the moment. It all makes a twisted sort of sense.

k&r
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Have you signed Dean's petition that fights for the public option?
If not, YOU are part of the problem.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
32. Howard Dean is being marginalized.

He is not a team player, which is probably why he was given the shaft in '04.

The problem is that government is unresponsive to the will of the people when that is contrary to the will of the ruling class. In that respect Ds & Rs appear to be irrelevant.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
43. Hear hear
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. Until we fix the health system...single payer will NEVER be affordable. n/t
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. I hope that this wonderful Doctor can do for our sick health care
system what he did for our Democratic party. Step aside folks and let the Doctor do his job.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Barack Obama is wrong
Howard Dean is correct.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Well, thanks for sharing that. Now I know better. nt
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Vroomfondel Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. I am so disappointed
I voted for Obama, and I've got to tell you... the only change I've seen so far is the ability to string together intelligent sentences when telling us how badly we're going to continue getting screwed. I'm seriously starting to wonder if voting is not just window dressing any more. Carlin and Hicks were right.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
30. Good post. K&R
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. I write emails two or three times a week to him about this.
It isn't spam. I just focus on a different point for single payer each time. If everyone did this and the emails were overwhelmingly in favor of it, maybe someone will read them and give them to him for his attention. The contact webpage is:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

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FreeJG Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
39. AARP is very involved in this....
Dems should be attending their local meetings...I met a women who said the dem club didn't "do anything"...so she went to AARP. They have been working on universal healthcare for a while now, and are very organized.

I think we dems should attend our next local AARP meeting...even if we are not old enough. It's the issue baby!!
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. K&R n/t
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
42. YES WE CAN afford single payer health care! Stop making excuses, Dems! nt
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
47. You don't get it..
... the banks and insurance companies RUN this country. Period, end of story.

I'm not sure that Americans have the stuff to do anything about it.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
48. Make politicians more afraid of us than them
The insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, hospitals and all the other corporate industries that support them are making back room deals to make sure they continue to get their cut. They don't want Americans to even have the option of a government program like Medicare. We have to rise up and demand this option or we will end up having a mandate to buy from insurance companies who care nothing about our health, only about their profits. The time is NOW to get involved in this issue. We MUST make our politicians more afraid of us than them.

Check out this piece in the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702951.html
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. You have NAILED IT, pmorlan1. It is up to US. If we let the administration do it they
are going to respond by doing what those in the room want and that sure as hell is not single payer or availability of Medicare for all who choose it.

CALL YOUR REPS AND SENATORS. CALL THE WHITE HOUSE. EMAIL ALL OF THEM. GET YOUR FRIENDS TO DO THE SAME. BE RELENTLESS. BE A ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS. NEVER LET THEM FORGET WHAT WE WANT. DEMAND EXPANDED MEDICARE. TELL THEM NO PRIVATIZATION OF MEDICARE.

Waiting for the government to do the right thing without making your voice heard is like waiting to win the lottery without even buying a ticket.

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. Kicked since its too late to Rec
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Prattvictory Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. "Salesman" still gets 10% - After 17 years
In 1992 I signed up for a Blue Cross Individual Health Plan. It was the only thing available so calling the guy a salesman is like calling Dick Cheney a salesman. I called him. Since that time I haven't received a phone call, a note, a birthday card or even a calendar, yet the "salesman" still gets 10% right off the top. Blue Cross won't even let me change "salesmen."

Tell me how this is an efficient health care delivery system?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. Single payer health care too expensive? Non-sense! Bull shit!
What is too expensive? 31% of it going to administration sociopaths ...bankruptcies because people use their only last resort credit cards to save their lives - who pays for that? Emergency room visits rather than preventative health care ...Drug companies who jack up the cost because they advertise their monkey puss on tv? WTF is too expensive ...Oh I am so sorry I cost us too much to keep me alive and of course I am not worth it oh but you will continue to take my tax money and spend it on rich mutha fuckas on wall street and a fucking go no where war ...and wtf is Osama you fucking asshole MIC loving SOB congress and senate war machine and drug company and HMO loving sociopathic bastards! I don't make what you mutha fuckas make in a year so how the fucking hell can I afford your kind of health care insurance?
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
56. Here's the numbers again folks: US Medicare vs UK NHS.
Budget for US Medicare was $440 billion.
Budget for UK NHS is around $160 billion.

US Medicare covers about 47 million people plus doesn't pay for everything.
UK NHS is essentially free at the point of delivery and covers 60 million people.

UK NHS isn't perfect. There's waiting lists and some drugs aren't covered/available on NHS because the pharmaceutical companies want too much money, so NHS doesn't buy. Better than having 9 million UK citizens/residents without insurance, it gets spread around a bit. No-one goes bankrupt after a quick trip to the emergency room.

The UK government would love to have a $440 billion budget for the NHS - think how many pay raises that would give and attract decent talent to the NHS and how short the wait lists would be.

Maybe it's time for a major overhaul of the US healthcare system? Do we need World War 3 where every American is heavily negatively affected to bring around this kind of change - you know, with bombs flying overhead, houses being destroyed countrywide... will this be the thing to bring universal single payer healthcare to the USA? It took World War 2 to do that to Europe. I'd prefer not to have World War 3 thank you very much.

Mark.
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