"Folks, this IS even worse than I thought" looks like the honeymoon is over

[leftchick]

I can barely understand his explanation of the thievery being offered as a 'solution' by geithner, yet his whole article very well worth the read.....



http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/03/investor-on-private-public-partnership.html

Folks, this IS even worse than I thought, and you know I have a constitutional predisposition to take a dim view of things (although it was clear from the get-go that the introduction of private parties to give air cover to the Treasury would make the exercise more costly without adding any value).

I suggest you write/e-mail your Congressmen, and more important, any of you who have MSM media contacts, call this to their attention. There will no doubt be useful further grist on this thread and on the post on which this comment first appeared. But the analysis above is damning on its face. I'd like to have someone have Geithner try to explain why it WON"T work like that, and how this abortion solution is in our collective best interest.

AIG bonuses are a sideshow (as offensive as they are, don't get me wrong on that one, the symbolism is awful). It is diverting attention from the real crimes and serving to get nay-sayers branded as populists, which is code for "jealous of their betters".

But this sort of thing in reality, as Paul Krugman points out today, is not a class issue but a recognition that the program is so heinous that it represents a fundamental danger to an already damaged economy:

... that these funds will have skewed incentives. In effect, Treasury will be creating — deliberately! — the functional equivalent of Texas S&Ls in the 1980s: financial operations with very little capital but lots of government-guaranteed liabilities. For the private investors, this is an open invitation to play heads I win, tails the taxpayers lose. So sure, these investors will be ready to pay high prices for toxic waste. After all, the stuff might be worth something; and if it isn’t, that’s someone else’s problem.

[sendero]

1. Thanks..

.. for posting this stuff. Too many DUers cannot see past the fact that Obama seems to be (and I think he is) a smart and well-meaning person to see that his economic team/plan is nothing short of disastrous.

[WI_DEM]

2. "honeymoon" what honeymoon? Obama never has had one

[NJmaverick]

3. Especially on DU, where anti-Obama propaganda is the sadly the norm

[MercutioATC]

9. I support most of Obama's policies.

I think he's doing a great job in most areas.


...but I'm still going to take issue when I believe he's making decisions that aren't in our best interest.

That's both my right and my responsibility.

[Fireweed247]

32. "my right and my responsibility" exactly!

And Obama letting Goldman Sachs run our government and steal all our borrowed money to hand out to their banking buddies isn't exactly working in our best interest.

[leftchick]

11. it is not anti-obama

I actually admire him greatly. It is anti-Obama policy decisions he has made in regard to the economy. For Too many people myself included, this is life or death. I take the fate of my family future very seriously and it is in grave danger right now. That is why so many are so frustrated with his clinging to the same fascist policies of the last 30 years. He needs to grasp the fact that The Chicago Model is DEAD.

[NJmaverick]

12. Krugman compared Obama's supporters to Nixon's people

He is a bitter PUMA that uses his economic credentials as cover for his anti-Obama vendetta

http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2008/20080211150350.aspx

[MercutioATC]

14. Yeah, but he's still right.

:P

[NJmaverick]

15. Only in the minds of people that share his animosity toward President Obama

[MercutioATC]

16. Well, I'm proof that your claim isn't true.

I support Obama and think he's made some great decisions.

I also believe his economic recovery plan won't work and, in fact, will make the situation worse.

[leftchick]

17. good lord

he was a huge Obama fan and truly believed the change mantra. He like a lot of other economists and every day folks who are completely disappointed in the direction he has chosen regarding the economy. Which is more of the same disastrous policies that got us here.

If you can not comprehend that basic point, well, quit whining.

[NJmaverick]

18. hello! Reality check time!

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=2884

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html

http://www.memos2mom.com/2008/02/why-krugman-hates-obama.html

http://davilaluis.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/why-does-paul-krugman-hate-obama/

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/460562-why-does-krugman-hate-obama.html

[leftchick]

26. oh I am sorry

I forgot to say when he became the Democratic Presidential Candidate Obama supported him. The fact that now he is a progressive thorn in Obama's side because obama is fucking up the solution to the economic disaster is heartening to many. Now bugger off. You can't even manage to stick to the subject without dismissing it with the "every one hates obama" strawman. It really is pathetic.

[mike_c]

21. that's a smokescreen at best....

He's right. Obama is driving us over a cliff. That's not "anti-Obama vendetta," it's the the simple truth. It's not propaganda to note that the emperor is naked.

[NJmaverick]

22. hardly a smoke screen, more like the motive behind his actions

still there are anti-Obama DUers that find him a useful idiot.

[mike_c]

30. so what if he is "anti-Obama...?"

That doesn't preclude his being correct. Throughout these discussions you've been attacking the messenger without saying much of substance about the message. If you think he's wrong-- damn, I forgot who this thread is about, Paul Krugman? Frank Rich?-- anyway, if you disagree with the author's conclusions, provide counter arguments. Ad hominom attacks are worthless rhetorical time-wasting.

[JackRiddler]

37. Do you have anything to contribute to this discussion?

Reflexive and irrelevant slogans or personal invective in support of a politician you like don't count. Address the banking and bailout question or begone.

[LWolf]

19. But pro-Obama propaganda is good?

Obama didn't get a honeymoon with me because I've opposed his agenda since he entered the primaries and brought it forward.

That opposition didn't change when he was nominated or elected.

Why should it? I should drop all principles, and cave on all issues, just to carry pompoms for an administration I oppose?

[NJmaverick]

23. That is exactly the bitter PUMA mentality I am talking about

[earth mom]

24. Your posts are nothing more than bitter denial about what is really happening.

This is NOT about taking "sides".

This is about the rights of THE PEOPLE who are actually paying for those fuckers on Wall Street to get bailed out when they have ALREADY robbed this country blind.

Take your head out and smell the corruption-because it's there and Obama needs to address it and solve it or there WILL most certainly be a huge backlash against him country wide.

The people have just about had enough of corporate americas bullshit! :grr:

[LWolf]

27. There is a real problem with two-dimensional thinking.

It pervades DU, and it pervades our culture. For example, the erroneous conclusion that someone who opposed Obama in the primaries must be a Clinton supporter, and therefore a "PUMA." The "either/or" mentality, when the world is not 2-D.

For the record, I opposed both Clinton and Obama with equal conviction.

They were tied for last place on my ranking of candidates.

[NJmaverick]

28. You mean the two demensial thinking that consists of

Obama wasn't my primary choice. So now I will distort reality in an effort to smear Obama. After all if Obama does bad, I look good and can do my "I told you so" dance.

[Threedifferentones]

31. We're still waiting for you to show why Obama's financial plans are worthy of support

If you could link to an article which clearly demonstrates that Obama is fundamentally shaking up our economic system, and not just throwing a new coat of paint on the old one, I would love to read it. I would love it if the president that I, and most every other DUer, voted for were to actually act with integrity and courage, and set up an economy that is somewhat fair and stable.

But, it seems pretty clear that the rich liars who have controlled our economy still do. If your love for Obama necessitates that you defend his every policy, and view every one of his critics as merely bitter over him personally, you'd better buy a fireproof suit, because you are in for a hot few years on DU.

[leftchick]

33. he won't cuz he can't

perhaps there is praise in the weekly standard though.

[LWolf]

34. No, I mean the two-dimensional thinking that says,

It's either us or them.

You are either with us or against us.

It's black or white.

It's good or bad.

You are either a fan and ardent supporter of Obama or you are "the enemy."

Democrats good, everyone else bad.

If Obama says it, it's "right."

Obama has the only worthy ideas and agenda, all the rest BAAAAAd.

?1233735468

[readmoreoften]

36. Your inability to criticize your favorite politician is anti-democratic hero worship.

Critical analysis is not "propaganda." If you people want to stop being called a cult, you have to stop acting like one. You people are frighteningly obsessive. You're as bad--if not worse--than Bush acolytes.

[leftchick]

4. true enough

I suspect if he had listened and acted on the economy from actual economists rather than the same wall streeters who got us here, and he still does, he may have actually had a chance at one.

[sendero]

6. There was no time..

.. for a honeymoon with the economy in collapse.

Obama has squandered what little time he had by taking on the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE THE PROBLEM AND CAN NEVER BE THE SOLUTION.

[G_j]

5. "an open invitation to play heads I win, tails the taxpayers lose"

"..the functional equivalent of Texas S&Ls in the 1980s: financial operations with very little capital but lots of government-guaranteed liabilities. "

what ever happened to the learning curve?

[C......N......C]

7. Running out of ways to make money out of nothing.

I sell you a car. Deal is done. But no. Someone sells you insurance on the car. Then someone sells insurance on the insurance . Got a good deal going on now. Got to sell more cars. These guys get together and sell cars to guys who couldn't afford cars in the first place. Then these guys sell insurance to the bankers of the new bad deals so they won't get burnt when the car owners can't pay. That is a simple analysis of derivatives and making more money out of nothing. It has got to stop. It is the whole problem of our economy and the world's economy. These guys in power now are the same players that learned how to make money out of nothing. They aren't going to fix it, because that is how they grew up and it is their life and they don't see anything wrong with it.

[FreakinDJ]

8. Without seeing the actual Bill, its all speculation

[PFunk]

10. Umm, the "honeymoon" was over after the inauguration as far as the corporate media was concerned

It's just that the mainstream dems (who are not DLC types) are finally noticing it.

[C......N......C]

13. Who was the first guy to say " we need a bailout plan " ?

The point is that the guys who came up with the bailout had only their interests in mind. There was no patriotic motive to save the country. They simply ran out of ways to make more money and some smooth talker got this scheme to be looked at as saving the country. Which oops did save a lot of Wall Streeters as well as making new big money makers along the way. ANd look at the cuts that congress took out of this life blood saving plan.

[Celtic Pax]

20. While the economy was in a bad way last November

too many people panicked and threw together a bailout package with billions of dollars without really understanding how the program would work or how it would be regulated and supervised. It was a half arsed attempt to take care of a long term problem. The country was panicked into going along with the "stimulus" program that added billions more, again with adequate safeguards and supervision. Heck, most, including President Obama, didn't even read the entire bill as is was rammed through the congress and now people are getting bit by the details they didn't bother to read about in the first place. The devil is always in the details. Also, people ALWAYS do things in their self interests. It is how that self interest can be channeled to benefit the people the most that is the problem and unfortunately, congress did a very poor job of that.

[C......N......C]

29. I am trying to find out who was the first to say something.. Too many people

were making too much money. I think the first person to bring it up was a scammer. I heard AIG head Liddy say at the hearings that his employees would quit if they had to give back their bonuses. I don't think there is very much patriotism involved in the bailout. I bet it can be traced back to a scammer.

[terisan]

35. There are some honest AIG employees who were promised bonuses to stay and clean up the mess

left by the dishonest employees.

If I were in that group I think I just might leave now rather than keep being villified in the media and watch the destructive effect on my family....and I would probably not give back my bonus because the AIG on my resume might make it difficult to find employment elsewhere

The dishonest ones getting bonuses have probably already left or really don't give a damn anyway.

[JackRiddler]

38. Fuck'em. There is nothing to clean up.

Screw the "counterparties" and use the bailout funds to start a national banking sector entirely free of the bad bets (actually self-service plunder) made by AIG to the benefit of Goldman Sachs and Co.

[AzDar]

25. Kick.

:kick: