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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:59 PM
Original message
The only thing that will change the evil in the Catholic Church...
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 02:04 PM by CoffeeCat the Catholics who sit in those pews every week.

Catholics must demand an end to the systemic evil that oozes from the Church hierarchy. Outsiders
can't change it. Change must be adamantly demanded by the congregation members.

I used to be Catholic, and my way of changing things was leaving. Millions of us have left--in protest.

My brother-in-law was molested by a priest. I watched the Pope put on a show about how awful child molestation
is--when the Pope visited America.

Do you know what was happening in our country during this time? A trial.

Several boys, including my BIL, came forward and detailed sexual abuse suffered at the hands of a priest. The attorney for
the priest insisted that my BIL--who is currently a physician--violated laws by not reporting this priest sooner, because
"a physician is a mandatory reporter". The Catholic Church, who paid for these attorneys, used that defense
to nullify all charges against this priest. The Church put my brother-in-law's wife on the stand, and suggested
that because she didn't know about the abuse--that my brother in law was lying.

That's what the Church did---to the children who were molested. That's what the Church did--as the Pope
claimed to care so much about these children.

And by the way--the priest who molested my brother-in-law wrote a letter of apology and admitted to the
molestation after the civil trial was finished.

At this point, those who remain in those pews and do nothing--are complicit in misogyny, pedophilia, corruption and evil.

It's time for Catholics to stop saying, "Well, I love my church, but I don't agree with what the bishops
or the Pope are doing...or how they handled the sex abuse...or what they've said about this nine-year old
girl who was raped."

Enough. If you are sitting in those pews---you are supporting those bishops, cardinals and the Pope--and all of
the evil that is spilling down from the highest levels. The Congregation cannot distance themselves from their

Can you imagine continuing to belong to a school PTA group where the higher ups had been involved in a child-trafficking ring?
"Of course I don't condone child molestation, but I just love the people at the meetings!" You either leave or you
throw the bums out. You don't continue to sit at the meetings--with the same rotting head still intact, at the top.

At this point in the Catholic Church--the only moral thing to do is LEAVE or TRY TO CHANGE THINGS.

No longer is, "Well, I like the songs and the sense of community" a solid rationalization for belonging to an organization
that has sunk to such disturbingly low levels.

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's why I left
A mother of two divorces a drunken child-abuser - and SHE gets shat on by the Church. SHE can no longer go to Church or receive the sacrament. If she goes the *official* way of annulment, it brands her children as bastards. So *she* is the one who is demonized.When does the Church *throw her a bone*? When she's laying on her deathbed, they decide it's okay to give her last rites. Oh yeah, they'll also give her a funeral Mass after she is dead.

Catholics need to start pushing for change. And not the sandwich-board type of change done to elicit *publicity* change -- REAL change.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think the basic problem comes down to the differences between the more-liberal American
Catholics and Catholics in the rest of the world. The rest of the world doesn't really *want* these changes like American Catholics do. The majority of Roman Catholics are people who live in deeply Catholic nations with laws that prop up church doctrine, and they don't know or care about changing anything--they're fine with things how they are.

So what happens to American Catholics? They seem to have the choice between leaving the church that's been an enormous and positive part of their lives and their family histories, or doing nothing at all and trying to focus on the good rather than the bad. It's a lot more common to do the latter, but it's also becoming more and more difficult as the church hierarchy gets more and more resistant to change. Nobody can ignore such an ugly situation forever. And yet, American Catholics cannot do it all by themselves. They are not the majority. They cannot change the church doctrines, but they also cannot just throw away all of their history and beliefs. So where does that leave them?

I don't have the answer. I am not a Catholic, although my stepfather and his entire family are, so I have some familiarity with the RCC through growing up around them. Sometimes I feel like the schism between liberal American Catholics and the Catholics of the rest of the world is growing wider, and has become impossible to breach without some kind of drastic measures.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're right about everything, but we can't ever be left with impression that
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 02:12 PM by peacetalksforall
all priests or nuns are guilty. There are saints there as well.

It has devastated me to find that the Church made a decision to deny, ignore, fight, and drag out the accusations.

Using the wife the way they did and twisting the psychology of his timing is sick.

As always, I resent the money that goes to take a pretentious or hypocritical position.

The Church is buying the wrong advice.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Outsiders can't change it."
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 02:15 PM by Boojatta
I agree, but I'm not sure what you hope for from "the Catholics who sit in those pews every week." It's a hierarchical organization. Some good people who sit in the pews can try to pursue careers in the Roman Catholic Church, just as Gorbachev pursued a career in the CPSU. If Gorbachev had become Pope rather than General Secretary of the CPSU, then I suspect that he would have changed the church just as he did in fact change the USSR. Somebody who wants religion with a human face has to reach the top of the hierarchy before there will be significant changes in the RCC.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. I left too
maybe if their pews are empty, there will be change :shrug:
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing will ever change
until the people who truly believe come to understand that the corporation that is called the Catholic Church is simply an impediment between them and God.
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. My son, dil and their family left the Catholic Church a couple years ago.
They were so sick of the hypocrisy, they had to leave. When their daughter was to be married, they didn't appreciate the "counseling" she and her husband-to-be had to go through. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If the people stop coming to their church, the Catholics won't change their ways, they will close the church. They claim to be broke. Right.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. You are correct. Mostly.
Outsiders can change some things. For instance, we can start treating this foreign country as a foreign country.

These people do not believe in our laws. They only answer to their mob bosses.

Could you imagine any other corporation being allowed to survive in this country when all of their CEOs, as a group, are known to fund and traffic in pedophilia? Forget it.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. At this point we're floundering around trying to keep the bishops
from closing parish after parish. I really think the bishops are making a big mistake with this. Ostensibly this is being done because there are fewer and fewer priests. In fact, some of those parishes are being closed so the property can be sold off to pay for the law suits. I really expect a sea change very quickly - either the Roman church must change or the bulk of American Catholics will walk to other churches: Episcopalian, Lutheran, Reformed Catholic. As a side note, if 3% of US Catholics join the Episcopalian Church, that group would double in size. I think liberal but disgusted Catholics are doing this more and more and are reinforcing the tendency of the American Church to be 3 steps ahead of the rest of the Anglican Communion in terms of gender rights.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why do people stay? Fear! Fear of not going to heaven. Fear of hell
I was an abuse victim.
But shortly after that one of the best things that could have happened did. I ate meat on a Friday and did not die and go to hell. Then I skipped mass on a Sunday. Did not die or go to hell. And at the age of 14 I had this revelation that the only reason people kept going to the catholic church was because they feared what would happen if they didn't.
So slowly I shed the chains. But my family didn't. A big wedge was driven between me and my family. As my dad lay dying he asked that I return to the church as his last request. Told him I couldn't. My mother was all the time praying for my soul. Since my parent were both orphans, I come from a small family. My brothers have finally given up on reconverting me.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. hit 'em in the pocketbook.
When enough people abandon them and stop putting their $$ in the offering plate, and more and more churches have to close, and fewer and fewer people go into the priesthood or become nuns, etc . . . then maybe it'll just die.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. A Somali woman's organization found itself without a home
when the local Boys and Girl's club said they had to pay $1000 a month for the use of several rooms to teach English as a Second Language to new immigrants. A local Catholic church has stepped forward and is letting them use 4 rooms in it's church community center for free. A Catholic priest in my community was listening to why the parish should give it's "charity collection" to Catholic Charities. He had investigated and found that none of the money went for housing. A parishioner said, "But they are the experts." After some back and forth, he said, "Sharon, I will not be consoled. There are homeless people in our community, leaving this to the "experts" does not console them, nor does it console me." And I once called that pastor because I knew someone who needed $200 to keep her housing. He wrote me a check.

Just sayin......
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