Why I don't want to legalize marijuana

[Mr. McD]

# I am a Mercedes/Lexus/Lincoln car dealer. Many of my customers pay cash. Few of them dicker on the prices and usually pay the sticker price with no questions asked, Others will lease with the company I recommend at very high interest rates and carrying charges and earns me an additional kickback commission.

# I am a politician who has attracted a large constituency with my anti-drug rhetoric. I have gotten funded many anti drug and rehab programs in my community. I can pontificate feel good speeches and take the high moral ground with impunity. I generate very good looking TV sound bites against the "War on Some Drugs" .

# I am a member of a religion the teaches that only we are of high moral character and it is our duty and destiny to bring morality to the world, by whatever means necessary. Only we know what's best for everybody else.

# I am an agent in DEA/FBI/CIA/ABC/XXX and am allowed to seize "suspicious" money, cars, homes, airplanes, .... or anything I think may have been involved with the drug trade. I can do it with impunity. The "War on Some Drugs" is a real power trip.

# I am a bank officer who has opened numerous accounts that deposit up to $9,999 in cash almost every day. 95% of that money I am legally allowed to loan or invest or ..... The "War on Some Drugs" has really added my bottom line.

# I am an employee of a jail/prison that did not exist until the quadrupling of incarcerations since 1980 because of the "War on Some Drugs".


More at


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[Greyhound]

1. Nice. The subject line worked well. n/t

[sarcasmo]

2. A fine job.

[tridim]

3. # I'm a drug dealer whose product is obscenely profitable only because it's illegal

Oh and I can lure people in who only want pot with hard drugs that have a higher profit margin.

[county worker]

4. What will it look like when we have legalized marijuana?

Will you go to the store and buy a pack of joints and you have to be over 18 and pay a sin tax on top of the price?

Or will you just plant some weed in the back yard and roll your own?

How many people will want to get stoned regularly? What social problems will there be? Will there be pot heads like there are alcoholics? Will they neglect their families like alcoholics?


I don't know the answer to any of these. I don't drink and I will not buy or grow pot if it is legal. I just wonder what effects it will have on us that don't partake.

I do not think the current situation is good. I do not think those who smoke pot are criminals. Back in the 80's I sold it myself. My roommate's sister would bring us garbage bags full and we could not use it all ourselves. I stopped using any kind of alcohol or drugs in '84. The effect it had on me was not good. I wonder who will become like me.

[Blue_In_AK]

5. People who want to get stoned regularly do already.

I speak from experience. :hippie:

[hedgehog]

7. I tend to agree with you. Morphine was the wonder drug of the late 19th

century because it got people off of alcohol. Guys quickly got hooked on morphine, but at least they showed up for work, stopped beating their families or quit spending all their money at the saloon on pay day!

[CrownPrinceBandar]

13. Yeah, but morphine was physically addictive......

and I speak from second-hand experience. My granddad was a medic in WWII, and he got hooked on morphine. He paid the price for it the rest of his life. But when you are five or six years old, granddad nodding off for no apparent reason was just cos he was old.

Anyway, one does not have the physical-addiction thing do deal with on pot. Kind of like comparing apples and oranges, really.

[PatSeg]

56. Exactly

History tells us how effective Prohibition was in the twenties. People didn't stop drinking and it opened the door for criminals like Al Capone. The U.S. war on drugs has been very costly and nonproductive.

[dana_b]

9. not sure but I can tell you that as a former oncology nurse

it would have made my patient's pain more bearable and their lives better.

[WeDidIt]

10. It won't look much different from today

Will you go to the store and buy a pack of joints and you have to be over 18 and pay a sin tax on top of the price?

Unlike today where you go to the marijuana guy's house to buy a sack of weed, can be whatever age the marijuana guy is willing to sell to, and pay the "smuggler's tax" in terms of a black market price for an illegal product.

Or will you just plant some weed in the back yard and roll your own?

Lot's of people already do, though most grow indoors under artificial lighting and would probably continue down that line as strains have been bred specifically to produce large quantities of the flowers in that specific environment.

How many people will want to get stoned regularly? What social problems will there be? Will there be pot heads like there are alcoholics? Will they neglect their families like alcoholics?

The only difference between today and what it would look like after legalization is, after legalization the pot heads won't risk prison supporting their habit. Otherwise, nothing would change much.

I don't know the answer to any of these. I don't drink and I will not buy or grow pot if it is legal. I just wonder what effects it will have on us that don't partake.

Nothing would change for you, then.

[Uncle Joe]

12. The answers to your questions are as follows.

1. It will look like America when the Founders partook, before Big Brother decided "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" wasn't such a great idea, if your definition of happiness didn't meet theirs. I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that life was perfect back then in regards to freedom but on this issue it was.

2. It depends on whether a particular state allows any store to sell doobies along with food or will they require it to be sold only in liquor or package stores. You will have to be over 18 and maybe 21.

3. I don't believe you should be allowed to grow a plant for personal use outside where a neighborhood minor could raid it, but I see nothing wrong with allowing you to grow one or a few indoors, possibly in a locked room.

4. My best guesstimate is 300 million minus 80 million minors, minus 150 million non-smokers either because of belief, health, their corporate owner won't allow it even on their days off, or it just doesn't do anything for them. So I guesstimate around 70 million.

5. I honestly believe it will have minimal effect on those that don't partake, but as a society, we will be much more in tune with the Constitution and our supposed core belief of living in the "land of the free and home of the brave." Drug use/abuse/addiction should be an educational and medical issue, not a criminal one; which only serves to destroy families, take up unGodly resources while bankrupting the nation, filling the for profit prisons to world records with the American People, corrupting government and enriching organized crime.

I have a question for you though.

What social problems would we have if families were broken up, property was seized as punitive punishment, people were imprisoned and otherwise qualified people were denied livelihood because they tested positive for alcohol or nicotine?

[Boojatta]

14. Should it be illegal to grow tobacco outdoors where a neighborhood minor could raid it?

I don't believe you should be allowed to grow a plant for personal use outside where a neighborhood minor could raid it, but I see nothing wrong with allowing you to grow one or a few indoors, possibly in a locked room.

[Uncle Joe]

15. They don't allow it in a neighborhood, you have to get permits, it's grown in rural areas and there

is another major distinction in the ease of use, I could easily pick a bud off someone's plant and smoke it, tobacco takes time to cure.

I suppose in a rural area it would be more acceptable to grow a Marijuana Plant, where there is less density of population and chance of a minor getting a hold of it, but I can see lawsuits from some minor's parent if they do get a hold of your plant grown out doors. Sort of like if they drown in your swimming pool and you don't have a fence around it. The more I think about it maybe a tall fence would suffice as legal protection for you and keeping minors off your Marijuana Plant.

[jmowreader]

38. Permits are no longer required for growing tobacco

After the end of Stabilization, basically anyone who wants to grow tobacco can.

The main reason tobacco is grown primarily in the country is the difficulty of preparing it for use. You've got to cure it then age it, and it takes a lot more room than most people want to dedicate to it. Pot? Dry it and roll it.

[TroglodyteScholar]

42. I'd just like to point out...

...that cannabis has to cure, too.

[Uncle Joe]

47. That's news to me,

I thought you could just pluck the bud off the plant and roll it or sacrifice it to the bong.

[dysfunctional press]

53. it needs to dry. a fresh bud won't burn very well at all.

and you have to watch out for mold, as you're drying it.

[roody]

28. I have ingested pot regularly for over 30 years.

I have a responsible job, own a home, volunteer for charities, give to charities. Did I leave anything out?

[cliffordu]

31. "Did I leave anything out?"

:rofl:

[tblue37]

29. Some will handle it fine. Some will not. Just as with

alcohol. And just as with alcohol, Prohibition opens the door to all sorts of social problems that legalization would solve.

I know many people who toke up many evenings to relax instead of having a drink. They are productive and successful people, and they do not "overdo" it, because if they were overdoing it, then they would not be fine, which they evidently are.

On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who have never made aything of their very real talents because they are unable to put down the weed, and their marijuana fixation totally saps their will and their good sense. They are already screwed up because of pot, but on top of that, their misdemeanor possession convictions has closed many potential career paths to them, and their depression over having a record and being cut off from opportunities because of that record causes them to feel there's no point to even trying, so of course they turn to weed to make themselves feel better.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. You think your friends' downward spiral is to be blamed on pot?

I guarantee you, it is not the culprit. The people themselves are. And no, it is not 'blame the victim'.

Pot is not physically addictive. It can only be psychologically addictive to those who are already predisposed to desperately seeking escape from themselves - if it wasn't pot, it would be booze, or hard drugs, or gambling, or sex, or Dungeons & Dragons or Celine Dion concerts that they would subsume their lives to. Pot is not the cause, but the engine used. Some other engines are more destructive, others less, and pot would belong in the 'less' column except for being illegal, which adds a whole other level to the problem, as you noted.

[tblue37]

59. But this is precisely my point: that *some* people cannot handle it, because they are the

sort of people who cannot handle anything. Just as some people cannot handle alcohol, though most do just fine with it.

I do think, however, that some such people's personal problems are exacerbated by the fact that they end up with actual criminal convictions for possessing small amounts of pot for personal use. Once a person enters the legal system as an "outlaw," a lot of other problems are created to make it hard to get their act together and get going on a path to success.

One of my friends has grown up enough that he is no longer fixated on smoking weed all the time. He basically self-medicated with pot for his depression, but he seems to have outgrown his chronic severe depression. He isn't happy-go-lucky by any means, but he now has goals and the will to work toward them. His bouts of depression are relatively mild now, rather than constant and severe.

But he did have a lot of trouble getting on the right path because he has two misdemeanor pot convictions, and the problems created for him by those convictions also made him feel at times that there was no point in even trying to get his act together.

He was originally caught with a pipe full and arrested. He got a diversion, and then, just before completing the diversion, he got caught again with a small amount for personal use. That time he was charged with a felony, which could have landed him in prison for up to 40 months, but his lawyer pled him down to two misdemeanors. But then, when he wanted to go to Japan to teach English as a second language, he found out that most countries wouldn't let him in to do that because of his misdemeanor drug convictions.

Other things he wanted to do were also blocked because he is a convicted drug "criminal." These obstacles would not be thrown in young people's paths if pot were not criminalized.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Are their laws against growing your own tobacco, curing it and smoking

it?

Sure, some people would no doubt grow their own, but people being people it would be no more impactful on regulated sales than home-brewed beer or home-made wine is on liquor sales. It is simply easier to run down to the ABC store to pick up a pack of joints than to grow your own.

And there is no question about pot smokers and growers being criminals. But they should NOT be, and once the law is done away with they WILL not be.

[droidamus2]

36. Answers

I would suspect yes it will be sold like cigarettes or in cans like pipe tobacco so you can roll your own.

I would like it to be treated like beer or wine in that you could grow a limited amount for personal use (personal use including smoking it with your friends and neighbors)

People that want to get stoned regularly already do. You may get a few people try it that wouldn't before because it was 'illegal' but I tend to think that would be a fairly small number. Pot is readily available now it just isn't necessarily convenient (If you have a long standing connection it is just like going to the store).

As far as 'pot heads' and neglecting family etc. there are many professional well educated people that consume pot on a regular basis and maintain a perfectly acceptable life style. Will some lazy irresponsible people smoke pot of course but that is more of who they are coming in not necessarily a result of smoking weed.

Effects on non-smokers, I guess, would be less than the effects of alcohol consumption.

Other results would be less exposure to hard drugs for those people only interested in smoking a little pot.

[Grinchie]

37. If it were legalized, many people would get their first experiences in growing something.

They would learn how easy it is to grow a product that actually gives something back, instead of a lawn full of GMO grass. Yes, the GMO companies are patenting GMO grass now. Along with vast tracts of replanted Forests in a wilderness near you.

They would finally realize that Deer are really nasty, destructive pests that without any predators and have become overpopulated.

I think the ability to convince people to grow a plant is a major benefit, and would speed up the move away from Monsanto "Conventional" Agriculture. People will only then learn how to co-exisit in balance with the Earth.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

49. You are justifying deer hunting for the legalization of pot?

I dont really care about hunting but that is pretty funny nonetheless.

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Seizure laws are FUCKED UP.

You can be found not guilty, but still not be able to get your property back. WTF?

[hedgehog]

8. Well, in case you ever might consider getting into the drug trade,

it saves the narcs the effort of seizing all your property a second time!

[liberation]

50. Most of the "war on drugs" legislation is unconstitutional...

In most drug related charges the burden of the proof lies on the accused, whereas said burden should reside on the state.

In any case, it should be none of the state's business what I do with my own body as long as it does not affect or interfere with the rights of other people.

[Qutzupalotl]

58. It is also arguably contrary to the spirit of the Declaration

what with the pursuit of happiness and all.

[tangent90]

11. Watch the advertisements on TV for legal drugs and pay attention to the side-effects.

I would WAY rather have whatever this stuff is supposed to 'cure' than what they "might" do to me (death is frequently mentioned sotto voce as one possibility) :grr:

I'm pretty sure there still has never yet been a documented fatality from marijuana as a sole cause.

(Doesn't the Bible say something about the natural plants that grow are for our use?)

[tanngrisnir3]

16. It works with the exception of the car dealership.

[applegrove]

17. I read somewhere that gateway drugs lead to mental illness in some cases.

That is enough info for me to say they should be illegal.

[Patchuli]

23. Alcohol can lead to mental illness.

Shouldn't it be illegal?

[Laelth]

25. You forgot the sarcasm tag. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[cliffordu]

32. Beer is a gateway drug.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. "I read somewhere..."

My sincere apologies, but in 9 times out of 10 I have found that to mean, "I haven't a clue where I picked this up but I am too lazy to find out if it is really true or not." The other 1 out of 10 times it pretty much means, "I'm making this up as I go along because I really don't know what I am talking about."

Please elaborate on what you have to say. You are making a broad statement with vague terms.

What constitutes a "gateway drug?"
Which "mental illnesses?"
What percentage of cases?

I honestly do not know if marijuana has been shown to lead to mental illness and am curious about the claim. I would like to know more.

[grantcart]

43. well in all fairness the fuzziness of his response is because of his afternoon reefer.

[liberation]

52. Nah, most likely a bad case of "wake'n'bake"

EOM.

[liberation]

51. What is a "gateway" drug?

LOL

[dysfunctional press]

55. alcohol and nicotine are by far the most widely used illegal gateway drugs...

when being used by a minior, they are illegal- and virtually everyone passes thru the 'gateway' when they are a minor.

caffeine is probably the most widely used legal gateway drug.

btw- "i read somewhere that gateway drugs lead to mental illness in some cases"...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:(but you forgot to add the sarcasm icon- some people might think that you were being serious)

[droidamus2]

62. Propaganda

There is no such thing as a 'gateway' drug. Anti-drug forces try to convince the inexperienced that there is something innate in one drug that leads users to 'want' to do other drugs. That is ridiculous. The only connection is that if you are acquiring your pot from illegal sources (unless you are doing medical that is the only way) the odds are you will be exposed to people dealing other drugs like coke, acid and speed to name a few. Therefore if you tried pot and found it wasn't the 'devil weed' that the government makes it out to be you might be curious about these other drugs. That does not mean there is some chemical in pot that makes your brain say 'oh now its time to move up to coke and then pretty soon I know I will have to do heroin'.

[G_j]

18. Kick

[suede1]

19. A kick and a rec.

[whoneedstickets]

20. # I am a Brewer or Distiller worried that sales may drop

if people can grown their own 'high' instead of drinking.

[Rage for Order]

21. While I get this guy's point, this statement is completely farcical

# I am a bank officer who has opened numerous accounts that deposit up to $9,999 in cash almost every day. 95% of that money I am legally allowed to loan or invest or ..... The "War on Some Drugs" has really added my bottom line.

Banks can lose their charter and be shut down if it is determined that they should have known, either by one person's knowledge or the collective knowledge of the bank as a whole, that there were suspicious or illegal currency transactions occurring that were not reported. It is true that banks must report cash transaction of $10,000 or more using Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs), but they must also file Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs) when deposits are made that appear to be structured in such a way as to avoid being reported on a CTR.

Banks have to train every employee on anti-money laundering, privacy, and numerous other topics every year or face stiff penalties. I hate those training courses...they're pure drudgery. But rest assured that the banks take them very seriously.

[GeorgeGist]

22. I sell alcohol and other mind altering prescription drugs ...

and I don't want a safe alternative.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. !

:thumbsup:

[omega minimo]

24. I own Starbucks

[Edith Ann]

27. Pharmacy

#I am a pharmacy company who finds it is too hard to control the production of marijuana therefore I am unable to make lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$on it. Damn, you can grow it in your backyard, a bird can fly over and seed it.

[Christa]

30. I know someone

(not me, I wish it was) who makes between $30-45,000 per week in cash in the NYC area. His clients are mainly big sport stars. He calls is small change as the big money is in hard drugs, not in MJ.

[Ticonderoga]

35. That was funny

I clicked on the headline "loaded" for bear.

[Cheap_Trick]

40. I've never used the shit, so I don't give a crap one way or the other.

But hey, it's your brain cells. Spend 'em any way you want.

[nichomachus]

41. I can see why you'd want to save the few you have

[Cheap_Trick]

60. Go spark a fatty, burnout.

and go fuck yourself while you're at it.

[Uncle Joe]

44. You do realize when we all die and they return to the dirt

our former Marijuana infested brain cells will mix with yours?

[stlsaxman]

46. well you might give a crap about how a lot of the tax money you pay goes to build and fill prisons.....

for the non-violent crimes of possession for recreational and medicinal use.

it's my money too and it really, really pisses me off.

[marias23]

45. Legalize/Decriminalize and Pot Supply Will Diminish

Despite the current failure of capitalism, Legalizing/Decriminalizing pot will take the huge profit out of it. It is only expensive and profitable because it is illegal. What will happen? Criminals will loose interest and the supply will diminish. BASIC Econ 101. End of problem

[ihavenobias]

48. K & R. n/t

[bertman]

54. Given past experience with alcohol, I imagine every effort will be made to control the

growth and distribution of pot, when it is legalized. The lobbyists will be lined up at the Congressional doorsteps wanting to write their industry's demands into the laws. Pharmaceutical companies will describe the limitations of its use as a medicinal plant. Alcohol brewers, distillers, and distributors will be lined up to ensure that only government-sanctioned facilities can grow and distribute pot for recreational consumption. Cheetos' manufacturer will be lined up to make sure they are the only company that is allowed to include a party-sized bag of snack foods with every ounce of weed that is sold by the approved growers/distributors. Bose will lobby to become the official "reefer headphone" manufacturer.

Hopefully, there will be no penalty for individuals who grow pot on their own and only give it away to family and friends.

As far as marijuana being a "gateway" drug, I'd be willing to go along with that if we also classified aspirin as a gateway drug and regulated it the same way. No doubt there is a higher incidence of aspirin users who went on to partake of the addictive drugs, than there ever was of marijuana users.

B-)

[PatSeg]

57. I think restrictions about growing pot

would be similar to those for brewing home beer and wine. Many people would not bother to grow their own, if they could purchase it easily and at a reasonable price. Meanwhile, the brewers and distillers would probably branch out and work on really quality marijuana with eye-catching packaging. Then on to designer weed and maybe even "flavored" products. They will adjust and no doubt make lots of money.

[bertman]

61. Good point, PatSeg, except that growing marijuana is a hell of a lot easier than brewing

beer. It's an indigenous plant and requires nothing more than fertile soil, sunlight, and water. At least that's what I read somewhere once a while back.

[PatSeg]

63. I figure this would become motivation

for companies to come up with super deluxe products, that would be difficult to grow at home. Also there are many people who wouldn't grow their own if they could buy it at a reasonable price.

I know what you mean about brewing beer. I've done it and it is very labor intensive and time consuming.

[Mother Of Four]

64. Don't forget Benadryl-

We call Diphenhydramine a catch all drug.

Anti-Histamine.
Anti-Pyretic.
Anti-Emetic

It's put in everything from sleep aids, to motionsickness pills, to fever reducers besides it's regular use as a allergy drug. It can also be used for drug-induced Parkinsonism, due to its anticholinergic properties.

It is used recreationally as a deliriant, depressant, in combination with dextromethorphan, or booster for alcohol.

If ANYTHING could be considered a "Gateway drug" that can.

In large doses it's not only dangerous, but can cause hallucinations-and sometimes drug induced short term amnesia.

[comtec]

65. The situation would look similar to here in Holland

You have special shops where you buy it (lord knows why it's called a coffee shop), and it's taxed, etc etc.
Sadly I seem to be rather resistant to the effects, as I've tried several muffins (basically 'brownies' to no effect, as I do not care for the inhaled variety.

But that's not my point, my point is that it's legal and safe.
The government has a tax revenue stream, not just from taxing the grower that sells to the shop, but tax on the grams that are sold - generally pre rolled as pure, or mixed (mixed is V E R Y popular here) or as a baggie.
You also have the REAL benefit of an actual store, that employs PEOPLE, that keeps them OFF the dole.
There are strict rules about what you can smoke ( literally it's illegal to smoke tobacco in a coffee shop now.. :wtf: - it's a anti-smoking law that is set up to fail, imho) so it's a social atmosphere.

Alcohol does NOT go with pot - common wisdom here - because of the mix of effects can be... unpleasant in some people. So the common wisdom is you don't mix them.

There are border towns that are going to outlaw (no longer give licenses) to coffee shops because of (I swear this is how they said it) "The nuisance of (25,000 a week) drug tourists" in these villages along the Belgium and German borders.
Yeah, I would not mind having that many "nuisance tourists"!

The problem these reigh-wing xian morans have is that POOF there goes ALL the tax revenue for those coffee shops, POOF there goes all those jobs, POOF there goes rent for that space that was pretty much GUARANTEED for that area, POOOOOOF goes ALL the peripheral market stuff that goes along WITH tourism, they won't goto local pubs, restaurants, etc. These people are fucking IDIOTS

AND!!! they will now have to SPEND money on top of the money NOT coming in, on law enforcement... what a fucking joke!

and they will be the first ones to cry that all these coffee shop employees are now on the dole for unemployment because their job and maybe business just went poof!

Dear god.. please protect me from your fan clubs... they're really stupid!