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How much money would your household save if you didn't have to pay for medicine/health coverage?

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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:55 AM
Original message
How much money would your household save if you didn't have to pay for medicine/health coverage?
I finally watched "Sicko" last weekend, and of course it got me thinking.

How much would the 'normal' household save if you didn't have to pay ONE CENT for

a) Doctor Visits
b) Emergency Room Visits
c) Hospital Stays
d) Ambulance Transport
e) Prescriptions
f) Dental Care
g) Insurance Costs
h) Miscellaneous, Unlisted Health Related Expenses

Would you do me the favor of taking a quick look at your monthly budget, and tossing some numbers up? It would also be interesting to see how many people in your household are 'covered' (or not) for that amount of money.

I'll post mine in a separate line to 'kick' the thread.
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Belial Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe @ $6000 a year.. but I would pay the same
in a tax increases if not more to cover the cost.. BTW thats with spouse and two children..
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Where do you get the number $6000 more in taxes per year?
I can't figure out where you got that. .
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. It certainly wouldn't be zero
I want to see more detail about the plan.
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Lost in CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. That seems close to what it would average per household even with
dramatic heath savings...

I mean how much per capita did you expect it to cost?
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. How do you know that?
One of the advantages of single-payer health care is that admin costs go waaaay down. No advertising budget - or a very small one. Paperwork is minimized, too.

Social Security has the lowest admin costs of any financial security account.

Look and see who is fighting single-payer. Insurance companies.

Before we went on Medicare, my wife and I figured we could pay $9K per year in higher taxes in return for health care, and it would be a wash. The bonus would be that everyone would get care.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. No you wouldn't pay more, unless....

1) you never use any of the coverage you already have and thus have no co-pays, deductibles, non-covered expenses, etc.) Even if not you might still save money.

2) you are making a hell of a lot of money

PLEASE READ how HR 676 is funded. Here's a good place to start:
http://www.healthcare-now.org/hr-676 /

Please when adding up the costs/benefits also factor in the value of not having to worry about coverage if you lose your job, that there will be long term care coverage for you if you become disabled, etc.

THIS IS A NO-BRAINER.

Single payer healthcare for all. We can't afford NOT to do this.


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Belial Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. Define... hell of a lot of money..
We DONT have the money to pay for this.. right now.. I am employed... wife owns a small business with 2 employees.. I have to pay medicare and FICA.. my employer MATCHES this.. that's money I COULD be taking home.. thats 8% of my paycheck a month for programs that are currently underfunded as it is.. when you have additional people added to the program it is going to cost MORE.. the administration has already said the expense will be passed on to the employers.. which is LESS money for you and I..
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
70. Self employed people will pay a lot more...
even if they don't make "a hell of a lot of money", depending on your definition of such. I'm assuming that we'll have to pay the full 7.8% ourselves, since there's no employer to pick up half. For my family that means our health costs will almost triple.
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Profprileasn Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
74. Probably right
plus choices wouldn't be as great. We have awesome, world class health care in this country.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Is that why we're rated as #37 in the world in health care,
but #1 in costs?

Take your talking points elsewhere, Skippy.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nearly $1000 in premiums, before you get to the $2500 deductible
per family member on hospital procedures(2 adults, 2 children) along with $25 copay for doctors visits and anywhere from $10-$40 for prescriptions. Our children are under 6 and I have chronic allergy problems. I would say over the course of 2009, assuming we stay employed, it will average a minimum of $1500 a month. Overall is is good care, we choose our own doctors, and do not need referrals for specialists. But it ain't cheap.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. 0 dollars
Active duty military
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Out of curiousity, how is the medical care in the military?
For you and/or your family? Any thoughts pro/con? How much do prescriptions cost? Etc.?
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. Well...
For you and/or your family? Great for me, moderate wait times for some appointments for fancy stuff (MRIs etc...) primarily due to deployed Soldiers getting first dibs and the fact that this is Europe. They installed a new ACL for me quick and easy with full meds and physical therapy by competent staff. Beyond that surgery Ive only had small appointments and checkups but pretty good service.


Any thoughts pro/con? Ive been pleased with it as has the rest of my family. My recently deceased Grandfather (retired Navy Warrant) was fully cared for during his bout with cancer. 1000 dollar bottle of meds for 10 bucks and care until he had had enough. Gotta do your 20 years to get that sort of benefit though.


How much do prescriptions cost? Etc.? As of this point I have not had to pay for any meds or care. There may be some extenuating circumstances for others where they do have to pay but that has not been the case for me.

Other programs I have noted but have not used are ones like the exception family member program for service members with disabled children and they seem to be very dedicated to their jobs.
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ogneopasno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. I've got a good friend who basically joined the military for health care. Unfortunately, he ended
up in Iraq.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I would label that as a very poor reason to join...
As for the Iraq part I would have to say "duh"
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ogneopasno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Oh, he wasn't surprised at all. He was just what the army wanted, though -- a smart, hard-luck guy
with a family to support who was willing to do just about anything to do it, and could step into something without having to pay for training or a new degree. It's actually worked out not so badly for him.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. It usually does....
Glad it did though..
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. My wife's COBRA alone is $365/mo.
Her meds are are about $250/mo more. Her copays are about $300/mo. Luckily I'm on VA coverage so my meds are $8/mo each for 6 different ones.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. I was just talking about how much we've spent on health care this year with my wife this morning.
$1700 in two months for me alone. Most of that was on a very expensive medication.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ummmm......
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 10:14 AM by Coyote_Bandit
Single person. 40 something female.

Premium $3000
Deductible $7500
Dental & Optical $2000

But then I haven't senn a fucking doctor for any reason in over a decade. So that deductible is contingent.


Edit to add: I forgot to include the $5 monthly charge on my city utility bill for low cost ambulance service. That's another $60 a year. If you actually use the service then there are additional costs.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. Between $2,000 and $3,000 per year, but someone would have to pay for it somehow
The concept of a normal household (meaning I assume middle class with at least one source of income) not having to pay for medical care somehow, makes absolutely no sense.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. PLEASE READ about HR 676. Learn how it would be funded. Start here:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. "employer payroll tax of 4.5%, an employee payroll tax of 3.3%"
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 10:27 AM by slackmaster
So I could expect about a 7.8% cut in my pay, maybe partly deductible, in exchange for not having to pay the roughly $2,000 - $3,000 I pay in premiums, co-pays, etc. now.

My gross pay last year was just over $75,000 x 7.8% = $5,850 per year out of my pocket.

Of course part of that pay cut would be offset by my employer not having to pay what they do now in premiums under the current system, and a small increase in tax deductions (I presume).

Sounds like a wash. The working middle class pays more in exchange for everyone being covered cradle to grave.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. You also get the security of knowing that if your employer cuts coverage, cuts YOU, or goes under...

...you keep the same comprehensive coverage.

Oh, and are you covered now for full prescriptions, eye care, dental, and long term care? Because under the HR 676 plan you would be.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I have decent coverage for prescriptions, but because of complex eye problems...
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 10:45 AM by slackmaster
...I spend about $500 per year on vision care.

It sounds like a decent plan, but at the end of the day it means higher taxes on working people.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Oh yes -- one more thing. Local, county, and state governments would pay less for their employees

...so you should get a tax cut in local and state tax.

Right now some of these local and state governmental entities are paying 25-30 percent (or more) of their payrolls ADDITIONAL in employer-share of employees' healthcare and workers compensation costs. You as a "working" taxpayer have to pay for this in addition to your own healthcare costs, in the form of higher local and state taxes.

This program would lower employer healthcare costs for local and state governments from 25-30 percent to about 11-12 percent of payroll. That is a huge savings that can go back to the "working people" in the form of lower local and state taxes.

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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. You would only pay 3.3% of salary, & save the $2-3K you are paying now -- get lots more coverage.

You would NOT get a 7.8% cut in your pay. The 4.5% employer payroll tax is paid by your employer -- NOT YOU (in lieu of what they are paying in healthcare coverage for you now.)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. My employer would have to get that 4.5% somewhere
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 01:29 PM by slackmaster
It wouldn't come out of thin air, and I doubt that my company would raise prices on what it sells to cover it.
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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
78. It comes from the money your employer does NOT have to spend for insurance premiums under this!
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 04:48 AM by Yellow Horse
Geesh, the money they are paying now for insurance premiums on you would go to pay the 4.5% (probably the employer would have money left over to save or give you a higher salary, even.) That is unless you are working for a crook who would try to pocket it.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. I'm assuming the self employed would have to pay that full 7.8%, just like we do for social security
In my family this would make our healthcare costs about 2.5x as expensive. Something seems wrong.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. People who don't have high healthcare costs (now) would likely see a financial hit
In exchange for everyone being covered.
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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #63
79. And people who don't have ANY coverage now would likely have a chance to live...
...especially if they have a chronic condition and are "uninsurable" at any price.

I'd gladly pay a few more bucks for that, not only because it is the right thing to do, but because the security will be there for me and mine if we ever become chronically ill and need high-priced treatment to survive. That's worth something.

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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
42. It means the cost of what we lay out in tax payer funds for
uninsured , uninsurable, county hospitals, fire rescue, paper work(most drs offices have one to three employees just to do the paperwork because every insurer has a different system as in one requires 7 copies and those people have to know every insurance companies rules, deduction amounts, what they will pay for or what percentage.
Now simplify as in single payer that means we all pay the same amount for a procedure.
One insurer will pay 3,000 for an appendectomy, now the appendectomy surgery suite has to have 2 OR nurses, a surgeon, anestheseologist, each one bills the insurance company separately, and the hospital charges rent on the OR.
That adds up to say 12,000$ you end up paying for everything over the 3g.
Another insurance company pays the whole thing except the deductible which could be 500, 1000, 2500. So you have all these folks just pushing paper.
Back to the single payer as in Canada, the price is 8,000$ the insurance pays, and you pay your premium. There is a profit allowance and everyone makes about 20% profit. With this system the profits are much higher and very much higher for some companies than others.
With a set fee schedule there is not the rampant denials like what happened to me.
I had pneumonia, I paid my insurance share which was 80$ a week out of my paycheck. They were supposed to pay, but decided since I was put in ICU for 2 days that I had to pay out of pocket 30,000$ which according to my contract was covered...the night mare just got bigger from there, I ended up homeless and out of work. Since my insurance dumped me the hospital (funded with county, state and federal taxes which I paid a share) tossed me out on my ass, so there I was still sick, no job, no home......
In the long run health care is what we need not sick care which is what we have we need proactive health education and regular checkups which would cut the number of ER visits for heart conditions or any number of other health problems because they could be found with regular checkups not when they have gotten so bad that it becomes an emergency.

Another possible reason I think the selfservatives keep pushing for no health care is the fact that many products we use on a daily basis from food which is treated with pesticides , herbicides, (Roundup is dilute Agent Orange is a known carcinogin and nerve toxin) cosmetics have lead and other toxic chemicals, clothing has anti flamible chemicals..all these affect our health.
The corps don't want to lose that easy profit by having to take the poisons out, and universal medical would find that we are all poisoned..before you say I am crazy I give you an assignment, google up toxins in food and cosmetics and blood tests on umbilical cord blood found 270 chemicals most of them toxic to reproduction, growth or carcinogens.
The part about corporations knowing that the poisons would effect rules changes is conjecture, but the tests that show high levels of toxins from mercury on is not.
I have been looking into Monsantos dabbling in food law, patents and trying to put us small farmers out of business with genie seeds which have suicide genes added so that you have to buy new seed each year as well as the Roundup ready seed.
We grow heirloom veggies organically because i started to develop allergies to store bought fresh veggies..and now I don't have allergies to food, unless I buy something from the store.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Over 5000.00 and that's with medicare.
Part A = 96.40 per month apiece
Part B supplemental 175.00 per month apiece
Don't have part D because the only drugs we take is I take a blood pressure pill a day and get a big break from the company that makes it. But to keep our option open without a penalty on the part D we have SeniorCare from Wisconsin that costs us each 30.00 per year.
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Lost in CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. About 1500 a year... so yes I would pay more for universal...
But I think that is important for America.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. I would have saved a bundle over being uninsured for 20+ years
and I would have gotten preventive care. I'm sure my life has been shortened considerably by my lack of access to care.

Shoot, I might have been able to save for my own retirement instead of having to inherit, not that it would have done me much good in the present economy.

However, maybe the economy wouldn't be quite as bad had this country dealt fairly with us over health care. They didn't.

This country has acted in bad faith with its citizens for over 40 years.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. I would probably end up spending.
Like on gas to go GET medical care. However the relief from worrying about how to pay if something ever happened would be so immense I can't begin to express it.

signed,
uninsured for most of my adult life
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. But you would have to pay taxes.
Not that I mind that idea. I don't mind paying my taxes because I like roads and schools and libraries - and would love single-payer coverage.

That said, I still think the cost to the average American, even with a tax increase to pay for it, would still be far less than the $3,000 - $10,000 most people spend out-of-pocket yearly for employer or personal-provider health insurance.
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xiamiam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. I pay 7200 without .8900 if i use it for anything...plus co pay doctors visits, hospital..nt
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
22. A rough estimate from last year
a) Doctor Visits: Figure on average 10 per year with a 20% co-pay= $300

b) Emergency Room Visits: Had one last year required x-rays= $500

c) Hospital Stays: None last year.

d) Ambulance Transport: None last year

e) Prescriptions: This is killing us. $80 per month for my two scripts, hubby is on four scripts and costing around $40 for a total of $120 per month times 12 months= $1440

f) Dental Care: about $625 a year but we are headed into orthodonture--figure another $3000 over the next couple years: $2125

g) Insurance Costs: Hubby gets reimbursed for my family coverage. We break even.

h) Miscellaneous, Unlisted Health Related Expenses: None so far this year.


Grand total about $4365 estimated last year.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. I wouldn't save any money, because I don't pay for those things now.
I can't afford to. Whatever Medicaid doesn't cover goes unpaid, because the money is simply not there.

That being said, not having medical bills pile up unpaid would certainly help my *credit* recover, thus making it easier for me to do the things a good consumer is supposed to do (like buy a house someday, when I'm out of college and working.)
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. Please, Take Off Those Rose-Colored Glasses
If we get UHC, we'll still pay, in the form of higher taxes.

Many US people are envious of our European friends with their UHC, their nearly free college educations, public transportation, etc., but most US people aren't aware they also pay about 50% of their income to taxes.

I'm not saying that's horrible, just that it's a HUGE adjustment to make, and if you're going to try to sell it, politically, you've got to be aware of that.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. Our glasses (if we can afford them) are BLOOD-covered now...
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 11:21 AM by demodonkey

...18,000 Americans die each year due to no healthcare. Millions more suffer financially and/or get substandard care because they can't afford what they need.

In the USA we pay the most of our GNP of any country on this planet RIGHT NOW for health costs, and yet dozens of countries have better care than we do.

Single payer is a no-brainer. Of course a lot of people have no brains. ;-)

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. And People With No Brains
Can still make a lot of noise, just like they did in 1993.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
69. Navarro study
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. Speaking of glasses..mine cost 375 for lenses alone and since I have
to have such a strange prescription medicaid nor medicare will pay for any of it.
NC medicaid will cut bifocals with the big line in them but I need trifocals and the lines mess with my vision/ balance and cause migraines which can graduate to seizures. I have Grand Mal seizures too the lenses trigger even more of them I have tried to get a waiver, but no dice, that is not counting frames heavy enough to carry the lenses, they will allow 30$ for frames which break on the first seizure I need spring loaded ones to keep from breaking them.
So I have to pay out of pocket close to 540$..and I am on disability of 800 per month..so I get the 5$ readers from the dollar store to be able to read anything and ask for assistance other times. I have to raise the fonts on the puter to enormous to see what I am typing, fortunately I took typing in school and can touch type most of the time.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. I've Always Had to Pay For Glasses. Dental, Too
100% out of pocket, and in the past 2-3 years, prices have gone through_the_roof.

WTF?
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. At least $200 a month for co-pays and expenses. If you tossed in the monthly premium.
At least $900 a month total for medical, dental, and vision. And we're considered "lucky" - the company I work for negotiated a good deal with Aetna and we have "New Lexus" health insurance for "used Civic" prices - and we have a generic Employee's Benefit Package (call in 24 hr emergency hotline and services, including family", financial, and legal) as well as various Commuter, Child Care, and Health Flex Spending plans.

I pay $311 bi-weekly in medical, dental, and vision to cover myself and my family (spouse/domestic partner and up to 4 legal dependents if I needed to without increase in premium). And since we don't have enough "itemized deductions" with the medical costs to match or exceed the standard deduction, those medical costs can't be used as a tax break, even though they fall under the category of tax-free deductions. $5K in a flex spending plan per year does not cut it as a tax write-off, that money still becomes a drain on the monthly expenses because you have to send in invoices to prove eligibility of that expense to get your money back - and you still have to wait until the end of the month to get your tax-free refund for your expenditure, which helps with the rent the next month after you've been struggling with overdrafts because of the outlay of medical co-pays you don't make enough to cover as well as covering all the other bills. So I guess we're still lucky we at least get the refund.

If they didn't have medical costs as part of itemized deductions, but as a deduction such as child care is (up to 80% of costs as a tax credit) it would have made it much easier on the working middle class and people with chronic health care issues.
I could never understand why deductible health care - not "cosmetic" or frivolous, but necessary for well-being health care - was lumped in the same relatively elective costs category as higher level education interest payments or primary residence mortgage. People don't "need" to go to get higher learning or own a home for their personal survival and well-being; however, they do need to have health care when they start to break down.

I've always said - you couldn't tax me more for universal health care for the same amount of health care any insurance company would charge me a premium for. What would they increase it by - $200 - $500 a month off my pre-tax income? That's less than what I pay now just in premiums - and almost $700 less a month on average in co-pay costs. My family can do a lot of stimulus spending with that money, once we pay off the outstanding medical bills from out to two years, three emergency rooms and two ambulance rides ago...

Especially since health care as it is now is basically a double tax - taxing something that is supposed to be tax-deductible - for those who don't have enough other deductions to itemize their health costs into their taxes or don't have flex spending plan coverage for at least some of their costs. $20K in health costs is a lot of burden on any married couple making under $70K without a mortgage - and that's how much they currently have to incur before they can start to get the tax write-off.

Haele
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
26. If that list were true
not only would we save thousands a year, and have better coverage for the half of the house that is not covered, we would not be in debt as we now are.
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RT Atlanta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. min $8,000 a year in premium
and throw in probably another $1,500 for related out of pocket costs for medical
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recoveringrepublican Donating Member (779 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
28. well the dental would save us crap loads, I have 3 kids, and I have horrible teeth
but the rest really wouldn't save me anything. My husband has federal BCBS. We pay $20/co pay (just went up from $15) for all visits, except my woman issues (maternity, pap smear, etc) which are 100% covered. Our meds are insanely cheap, but we don't use much except for the occasional antibiotic/penicillin and my nuva ring (which is $7 for me). Our deductible is $250/year or $500 for family (it may be $600 now). I would guess we maybe spend $300/year for a family of 5 out of pocket. Well if you add dental it goes way up.

All this for about $70/month on our end. Hardly any dental is covered (they reimbursed us $150 for over $1000). Glasses are 50% coverage (including exam), but they pay nothing for my hearing aids.

But I hear from my friends how much they pay and it is astronomical, even when it's provided by employers (many of self insured). So I'd give it all up and pay more in taxes for everyone to be covered. Someday my children will no longer be covered under my husband and I don't want them beholden to an employer so they can get their strep throat treated.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
30. We pay approximately $20k/yr for insurance
and maybe $2k beyond that in copays & deductibles. The insurance part is tax deductible, so call the total something like $15k.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
33. $260 / mo for premiums alone, for a high deductible policy that doesn't

cover 2 pre-existing conditions I have.

I'd estimate, during the past year, $75/month in addition.



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JSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. Right now we pay $1300 a month
Hubby just read something about lowering the age for Medicare coverage to age 55, at a cost of 500-700 dollars a month, per person. So we wouldn't save much, if anything.
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
36. About $300 a month. n/t
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
37. I have to annualize mine before breaking down:
Premiums: about $7,200 a year, not counting what the company pays.
Prescriptions: $2,400 a year, not counting the co-insurance on prescriptions. The total Rx bill is probably around $10,000/yr
Doctor visits: $600 a year.
Copays: $600 a year.

Total: $10,800/yr = $900/mo, minimum. Doesn't countcompanies contribution to insurance, etc.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
39. what about other collateral damage
like my car insurance going down cos they don't have to cover my hospitalization, just my car.
Or small business not to have to spend on providing their employees health benefits

great savings don't you think?
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
41. about $3000 to $4000 per year. nt
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lmn84 Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. I'd save over $10,000
We're a family, our premium is $600/month (not bad compared to some) which is $7,200 a year. Our deductible is $2,500, which equals $9,700. But that's just health care, not dental or vision. Our dental and vision premium isn't bad, it's about $60/month. So now we're at $10,420 a year. We get 2 dental and vision exams a year without out of pocket expenses, and as long as you get frames under $100 there is no cost for glasses.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) both kids have had a handful of issues at the beginning of this year, so our deductible is almost paid. And we don't have any serious health issues. Just the typical kid stuff like broken bones, sick with the flu, immunizations, etc. Though my step son is having a surgery (outpatient, not major) next month which definitely helped pay out the rest of the deductible.

I'm just glad we can afford it.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
45. Maybe $5000/year. Not much.
That's for my 18-year-old son and myself.

$3800 of that is premiums, roughly another $1200 for copays.

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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. We had to give up insurance 5 years ago because we couldn't afford it.
If we had been able to pay it, the cost would have been about $60,000 - maybe a few thousand more - for a policy with a $5,000 deductible (a head). All the years we had it, they never paid a dime on our behalf because we never got to the deductible. It totally pisses me off we're in this predicament.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
49. No less than $9600 a year
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 12:59 PM by Blue_In_AK
which is what is taken out of my husband's pension for health insurance.
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
51. Its very hard to say, it varies from family to family

But under HR676 a family would only pay about $2700/yr for healthcare.

http://cthealth.server101.com/h_r__676_fact_sheet.htm

Families Will Pay Less

Currently, the average family of four covered under an employee health plan spends a total of $4,225 on health care annually $2,713 on premiums and another $1,522 on medical services, drugs and supplies (Employer Health Benefits 2006 Annual Survey, Kaiser Family Foundation and Health Research and Educational Trust; U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Consumer Expenditure Survey.) This figure does not include the additional 1.45% Medicare payroll tax levied on employees. Under H.R. 676, a family of four making the median family income of $56,200 per year would pay about $2,700 for all health care costs, including the current Medicare tax.

Business Will Pay Less

In 2006, health insurers charged employers an average of $11,500 for a health plan for a family of four. On average, the employer paid 74% of this premium, or $8,510 per year. This figure does not include the additional 1.45% payroll tax levied on employers for Medicare. Under H.R. 676, employers would pay a 4.75% payroll tax for all health care costs, including the current Medicare tax. For an employee making the median annual family income of $56,200, the employer would pay about $2,700 per year.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
52. Several hundred in 2008.
I had to have a CT scan last year plus some other tests. I don't take any meds right now. I go to the dentist twice a year and had to have some fillings done. So that was a couple hundred. So altogether, maybe $600. And I have good insurance. I also have gallstones but have put off doing anything about it because that would cost thousands, even with insurance. They do not bother me much so I have left it alone.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
54. Ouch "employer payroll tax of 4.5% an employee payroll tax of 3.3%" my healthcare costs would triple
I'm fully in favor of single payer but I thought it would actually save me money. Sounds like it would be about 3x as expensive for my family.
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ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Actually, I redid the math and it would only be 2.5x more expensive than what we pay now.
Still, ouch.
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
55. I think that car insurance rates would drop drastically as well
Most of what everyone is paying is to cover the hospital care in the event of an accident. Car insurance would then only need to cover the cost of the car.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Yeah, because insurance companies are always looking to save us money
:rofl:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. Between premiums and deductibles, I would have to spend
Edited on Fri Mar-06-09 02:04 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
$7600 out-of=pocket in order to see any benefit from my insurance coverage, so health care taxes would have to be awfully high before I found them disadvantageous.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
61. None
Because in order to pay for UHC our taxes will go up. So while I may save that $20/week I pay now towards my health & dental, I'll still be paying for coverage through my taxes.

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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. The original question had nothing to do with how much your taxes
would go up; it was about how much money you are currently spending.

If I understand you, you are paying $20*52=$1,040 per year? That is a pretty good deal! :)
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Yeah, but if my taxes go up I'm not "saving" anything.
And you're question was how much would you save, not how much do you spend.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
68. I just recently got insurance through my company again.....
Let's go with the past year:

$1500/month COBRA

That alone would be $18K.....

Plus all of the out of pocket deductibles, etc. and having a chronically ill child...that ran $20K in 2008.......so....

If I didn't have to pay for health care premiums or anything medically related, I'd save:

38K/year.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
71. Not a whole lot, frankly
My employer covers medical, dental and vision. My co pay for a dr's appointment is about ten to twelve bucks, so we're talking maybe a hundred or so a year.

I do pay a bit for some prescriptions- some are free. I recently filled three scripts and only had to pay four bucks for the pain med. The other two were maintenance meds and were free.

If something catastrophic happened we'd have to shell out two grand but we have that set aside in a MSA.

I only wish that all Americans could have low cost or no cost quality health care.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
72. $22K/yr for two adults
We have to buy at non-group rates and pay for all of it ourselves.
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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
73. Thousands.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
75. I'd Save Over $4000 on my Insurance and One Prescription and Co-pays
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
76. Let me do a quick compare: UK vs US.
Our family made last year about $70k - two of us working full time with one child.

Our Federal taxes were $5863.
Our State taxes were $3742.
Social Security Tax was $4722.67
Medicare Tax was $1104.52.
Healthcare costs last year totaled about $7400.
We paid $250 in local taxes last year; we only own vehicles, no real estate owned.
Local sales tax is 6.5%.
Gas is about $1.90 a gallon in NC about now. Fuel costs if you drove 30k miles a year averaging 20 mpg: $2,850

Total "costs": $22082.52. Total up-front taxes: $15682.19

If I were to compare to UK, then I'd have to adjust; I'll use an easy formula of $1.50 - 1.00. Based on the same income of $70k a year split $44k for 1 person and $26k the other, we get:

UK Income Tax would be $10,379 in $ terms
National Insurance would be $6155.24 a year in $ terms
Child tax CREDIT would be $3510 a year.
Child benefit would be $1466 a year.
Local taxes would be $2157/yr.
UK road tax would be $630/yr.
Extra healthcare costs (glasses, dentist trips, prescriptions) would probably be around $800/yr.
VAT (close enough to sales tax) is 17.5%
Gas is about $5.70 a gallon right now. Fuel costs if you drove 30k miles a year averaging 20 mpg - $8550.00 (good luck doing 30k miles a year in UK at 20 mpg)

Total "costs" - $15145.24 - and just upfront taxes minus benefits: $14345.24

If we drove our gas guzzling SUVs and Minivans over there, it'd work out about even. If we switched to public transport and smaller more fuel efficient cars, it would be a lot cheaper.

If we had the jobs that paid us the equivalent of $70k a year at about current exchange rates, we'd definitely save money by moving to the UK.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
80. Under a proposed state single payer plan, husband and myself would pay $175 a month
$2100 a year. The $75 is for his Medicare supplement, and $100 a month for me until I reach 65.
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