help me out. how exactly do you solve an immediate state budgetary crisis by legalizing marijuana..

[1]

there seem to be many here that think that the legalization and taxation of marijuana could be the salvation of an economy gone wrong like california.

(and for now let leave out the release of prisoners, which i totally agree with even if marijuana is never legalized. i am in total agreement with that. and if that is the total budgetary savings, then let's just do that, and that is an entirely new thread.)


how do you legalize and tax marijuana? legalize? easy. you are now the governor, and the representatives go along. it is now legal.

but that is not the point.

the whole point is that this "taxation" that will solve our budgetary woes. taxation.



for the life of me i can't understand how you would do this? this is where i need your help.



how would they control and tax this to solve that budgetary crisis?

ask every street dealer to collect the tax and forward it to the state? that doesn't seem like it would work.

turn the whole thing over to phillip morris to begin production of "tax stamped" packs of pot to be sold at convince stores? that might take years.

i'm assuming the millions of dollars in pot grown in california right now are outside of any "taxable" component of government. if the cops don't know, they don't know.

and much like alcohol, for the government to successfully tax they must control the supply. millions of more "dea" agents to sniff out the "moonshiners???"


i get some here would love to get marijuana legal by whatever means. and i get this "obscure" argument about how it might be "taxed" to solve all of our problems.

but are there any real ideas about how taxation could actually be implemented? or is this just bullshit for my smoker buddies.

i love simple people who never really think a problem through to a conclusion. i am asking for those much wiser than myself who have ideas about this to help me out with this "all you have to do is legalize pot and the world will be ok" idea.

cool?

[babylonsister]

1. Small businesses would blossom, and taxes would be involved.

Taxes would be involved, but if something like this was passed suddenly, those big bizs wouldn't be in play. Or would they?

[billyoc]

2. It seems like an awesome idea

when you're high. :evilgrin:

[HeresyLives]

3. Same way as Roosevelt did with beer.

Famously, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved the United States banking system during the first seven days of his first term.

And what did he do on the eighth day? "I think this would be a good time for beer," he said.

Congress had already repealed Prohibition, pending ratification from the states. But the people needed a lift, and legalizing beer would create a million jobs. And lo, booze was back. Two days after the bill passed, Milwaukee brewers hired six hundred people and paid their first $10 million in taxes. Soon the auto industry was tooling up the first $12 million worth of delivery trucks, and brewers were pouring tens of millions into new plants.

"Roosevelt's move to legalize beer had the effect he intended," says Adam Cohen, author of Nothing To Fear, a thrilling new history of FDR's first hundred days. "It was, one journalist observed, 'like a stick of dynamite into a log jam.'"


http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richardson-report/obama-marijuana-legalization-122308

[G_j]

4. tax it, and we'll have to throw it in the bay..

well I suppose if it was being sold in stores, it could be taxed.
But people should be able to grow their own.

[KG]

5. dam right - decriminalization, not legalization.

[HeresyLives]

7. People can make their own beer

and wine, but they usually don't bother. Easier to pick it up at the store.

I can kill plastic plants, so I'd never attempt growing it on my own, especially if I needed it for medical reasons. :)

[JeffR]

8. No taxation without intoxication!

:dem:

[dysfunctional press]

13. growing liscences.

the more plants you have, the more you pay.

[petronius]

21. But if cops can't find all the illegal plants now, how are they going to catch

the plants grown by tax-evaders (especially since all the nifty WoD surveillance tech will dry up when it's just an unsexy Tax Board complaint)?

:shrug:

[dysfunctional press]

46. people who wanted to grow, but don't want the potential hazard of losing their home...

would gladly pony up. i know that i would.
would everyone? probably not- but there's no tax on the boos that has 100% compliance.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. Just think of all the money saved by legalizing marijuana in regard to law enforcement, the courts

and the prison system. Anyone in prison for marijuana should be let out.

[Fireweed247]

14. ...and perhaps a breadwinner gets out of prison

and can support his/her family again who then gets out of poverty and no longer needs welfare.

[sharkynola]

15. Let the people go

OmmmSweetOmmm,
I totally agree, what the hell are we spending money on people in jail who haven't done anything wrong but wanted to get thier groove on in a society that is so damn intolerent? VICTIMLESS CRIMES! Gambling, prostitution, and all the other stuff I like!

[Cid_B]

39. Just a bit of advice...

When trying to prove your point or convince someone of mature adult intelligence in a serious way it is probably best not to use the phrase "get their groove on."

Lookin out for you...

Cid

[sharkynola]

9. simple? not so......

Much like the 'flat sales tax', legalizing pot is not an option for increasing government's revenue. For the last century or so people have agrued that government needs only to tap into some illegal commerence flow to solve all it's woes. If only we could get Al Capone to pay his fair share, then we'd be solvent! Yeah, right. You're right to conclude that legalizing marijuana use/production/sales would help the economy is a pipe dream (pun intended). However, enforcing b.s. laws that take millions of our dollars away from important things, like security or social programs, to chase some not-a-threat stoners is totally a waste of our resourses! Let's put our priorities in order, I say. Keep us safe, keep us from the violence of Mexican drug lords, and let me take a vacation to Tijuana without the worry of being kidnapped or worse!

[Old and In the Way]

25. If you want the carnage in Mexico to stop, the solution is simple. Legalize it.

People are dying because big money is being made in controlling the supply of marijuana. Legalize it and you knock the criminal profit motive out of the equation. Plus, the cost of pot drops to 1/10 the value it is today (supply will easily overwhelm demand). That frees up a huge chunk of discretionary income that can be spent in the above ground economy.

[BlooInBloo]

10. You don't. They just want to get high without fear....

And they make up shit casting pot as the world's panacea to gain support.

[Incitatus]

70. It sure won't solve the budget problem by itself, but if you don't think it won't save millions

if not billions, your head is really up your ass.

[Tsiyu]

72. Thank you

How about if we go all regressive and outlaw porn like we do weed?

Nobody really NEEDS porn to survive, but we sell it and tax it.

Some people like to get a buzz from cannabis just as they do from beer, scotch or their legal prescription drugs. So what? We tax the beer, and scotch (not sure on scrip drugs as I haven't had health insurance for years...) and nobody says that's irrational.

For people like me, it isn't about the buzz. I don't have any withrawal or desire for a buzz. If I did there are legal things I could take to give a much stronger buzz. But I take no pills besides an aspirin once in a while and I rarely drink more than a beer or two every month or so.

No, I just like to eat, and back when I had horrible nightmares and flashbacks (which are gone now thankfully) I enjoyed not feeling terrified to go to sleep.

The ninnies who think it wouldn't help our economy (and our fellow citizens) are dreamers, closed-minded and bigoted.

[Danger Mouse]

11. Duuuuude, shut up and pass the nachos.

[Fireweed247]

12. people can make moonshine, but the prefer the easier method of just buying booze

Likewise, it would be a helluva lot easier to just buy a pack of joints, and that is where you tax the people. I think you could charge quite a bit in fact and people would still buy them. I think there are millions of smokers just willing and waiting to throw their hard earned cash down on a pack of joints and wouldn't mind paying $5 tax per pack, you betcha!

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. Legalize, then require a tax stamp for growers/sellers...

Go down to your county courthouse and purchase a tax stamp, which is available at a sliding scale price depending on the size of your growth and/or sales operation. Anyone caught growing or selling without the proper tax stamp could be subjected to a fine not to exceed 4 times the amount of the tax stamp that would have been required for the size of their operation...

That would be a good starting place... I wouldn't be opposed to buyers having to purchase a tax stamp, too...

:hi:


Peace,

Ghost

[sharkynola]

20. the stamp act?

Don't you all remember the Stamp Act of yesteryear (I've been waiting to use that term, 'yesteryear' for quite some time). I posted my earlier message to state 'the state cannot increase revenue by taxing vices'! Do you not remember Prohibition? It took two amendments to the Constitution to f**k that up and un-f** that up! Let it go, and please, please, don't try to tax or regulate it! I have a great idea! Let the people get their grove on when and where they want and keep the regulators out of the hills!

[ieoeja]

66. Sure, let's discuss the Stamp Act.

Passage of this act required the usage of paper embossed with a specific stamp to make any document legal throughout the entirety of the British Empire. That paper was already required for legal documents throughout the British Isles making passage of this act seemingly unremarkable.

Overnight the sole company authorized to produce this paper was required to double their production and distribute it over an area 10,000 times larger than they were currently handling.

As a result of the authors of the act overlooking this reality, the economy within Britain's overseas economy ground to a halt. Old Man Henry found himself stuck in jail for months for a single nights rowdiness when the court found itself without any stamped paper to process his case. And Little Johnny and Little Susie who absolutely *had* to get married, couldn't.

And, of course, all of this was implemented by representatives of the citizenry in Britain with no representatives from the colonies.

When you look into the various "no taxation without representation" issues leading up to the Revolutionary War, you will find that "onerous taxation" was seldom the issue. "Fucked up administration" was more often the problem. The long list of grievances laid out in the American Declaration of Independance contains only a single line mentioning taxation. The bulk of the document relates to the treatment of those suspected, charged or convicted of crimes. Similarly, a full 50% of the Bill of Rights deal with rights of criminals.

Which makes the Rightist mantra, "you give up your rights when you commit a crime," spectacularly ignorant.

[Ghost in the Machine]

67. Any discussion of legalization without mention of regulation and taxation is disingenuous....

... dishonest and downright disgusting. Straight up legalization, with no regulations or taxation, is an unrealistic goal. It would never pass on a vote. You're asking for failure. Neither Congress, nor the voting public at large, would agree to legalization unless it was regulated in some way, just like the alcohol and tobacco industries are. No sales to minors would be an important part of any legislation that even stands a chance of passing. I say all of this as a 35 year toker... I'd love nothing more than to see complete legalization, but I'm also smart enough to know that it will never happen.


"Let it go, and please, please, don't try to tax or regulate it! I have a great idea! Let the people get their grove on when and where they want and keep the regulators out of the hills!"

Is your name John Lee Pettimore? :shrug:
http://www.steveearle.net/lyrics/ly-coppe.php


Peace,

Ghost

[1]

17. ******* ok. just as i thought. so to here no real ideas about how to legalize and tax. *******

[girl gone mad]

24. Just as I thought,,

someone who won't bother to use the Google.

http://tinyurl.com/auurya

Plenty of good information out there..

[Greyhound]

18. Check back tomorrow, I have to get ready for an interview so it's off to bed. n/t

[Oregone]

19. Good point! My tobacco dealer doesn't pay a cent in taxes...

He's a slimeball but he hooks me up with the shit.

[Old and In the Way]

22. It's a market driven commodity now.

Seriously, everytime the police bust a sizable operation, they set the price of the street sale. To justify their budgets, they inflate the value. This drives the retail price for the product through the roof, as the distributor sets the value. Legalize it...don't even bother trying to tax it and there will be loads of money freed up for new discretionary spending as the floor drops out of the artificial market priced marijuana.

[devilgrrl]

23. Marijuana nothing - legalize hemp!

Paper, textiles, etc....

:shrug:

[Greyhound]

63. This is a crop with huge production potential and we are in a prime position to dominate the

world with it.

Oil and plastics, too.

[Tsiyu]

26. Tennessee has already been aggressively trying to tax illegal drugs

You had to show up in person to buy a stamp. But they didn't legalize so the tax collection is illegal and unconstitutional itself.

Believe me, the revenuer showed up at my door looking for a former resident who was levied $3000.00 for possession of $60.00 worth of mushrooms. (Tax dude's ears are probably still ringing from the ComeToJesus Meeting he got when he showed up at MY door.)

It's simple. You allow people to grow their own up to a certain limit with no tax or penalty. This alone puts $$$$$ back in circulation into the economy, since they're not having to spend money to buy it, or to make cops and prison contractors rich if they get caught.

Most people won't want the trouble or will want to buy other strains depending on their ailment or need (appetite, sleep, pain relief) so there will remain a vast market.

You make rules for growers as to what they can grow, security around plots or for indoor facilities (so minors don't grab any of the harvest) and you start out selling it au natural, bulk, with a per gram/ounce tax rate. An indoor operation can grow a crop in six weeks. The purchaser would pay that tax to the grower/distributor and the grower/distributor would then forward that tax to the State monthly. You would have a revenue stream in eight to ten weeks.

Later on, you work out processed cannabis, making sure Monsanto doesn't get any claws in the business, and you refuse to allow any Pharm or chem company to "patent" it.

Many small growers could cover the need, become prosperous and in turn SPEND THAT MONEY.

Farmers with no interest in growing medicinal cannabis could grow hemp, which is an extremely useful plant we IMPORT but do not allow our farmers to grow (this is the absolute stupidity of America today. The Founders would be furious and shocked that hemp cultivation is prohibited in the US. It's like prohibiting cotton or corn. It's absolutely maddening how the DEA propaganda has made this plant a crime to grow. And Americans just don't really care how stupid they look.)

Farmers could corner the North American market and find new markets for this plant, and manufacturing of hemp products would become cheaper close to home.

This could be done. Look how fast that wretched Patriot Act was passed and implemented...

In addition, glass blowers and others who make smoking items would sell product and collect tax revenue. The ripple effect would be amazing.



On edit: You would also see sales increase for those who build greenhouses, manufacture hydroponic systems, ziploc bags, grinders, vaporizers, etc, etc, etc.

Money flow is the issue. Legalization would create good circulation for many industries....you might see that if you can get your head out of the inane propaganda long enough to be practical.

That's the thing: The true Pie-in-The-Sky dreamers are the ones who think the current manner of dealing with cannabis isn't destroying lives and isn't part of the demise of our economy.

[ima_sinnic]

31. great post! with fabulous explanations and ideas

:thumbsup:

[Tsiyu]

43. Why, thank you

Nice words to see. :)

Someday the dreamers will wake up and understand that their fantasy is just that.


Have a great day!!!

[Uncle Joe]

49. I agree,that is a great post, Tsiyu.

:thumbsup:

[Tsiyu]

51. Thank you kindly Uncle Joe

:hi:


No response from the OP, though.......hmmm......

[Uncle Joe]

56. There

are no capital letters in the O.P.....hmmm...

I believe, when people don't use capital letters, they aren't seriously looking for answers.

Peace to you, Tsiyu.:hi:

[Tsiyu]

57. I never looked at it that way but you may be on to something

:)

peace back atcha, Uncle Joe :hug:

[4lbs]

27. There are ways CA saves money by legalizing it.

First of all, the money saved from not having to arrest, prosecute, and incarcerate pot smokers.

It costs $25,000 annually to imprison a person. Our prisons are also overcrowded, with quite a few on drug offenses. Save those prison cells for *real* criminals. Add in the cost of arrest and prosecution, that could be another $20K to $40K depending on the circumstances.

Thus, the state of CA saves about $50K per person by not pursuing pot smokers.

The state of CA arrests between 60 to 70 thousand people annually with regards to marijuana. That means the entire process of arrest, prosecution, and incarceration that would be eliminated would result in a savings of several billion dollars annually.

Second, there is the taxation side. By legalizing pot, you can tax the production and sale of it. The process would be much the same way cigarettes and alcohol are taxed. That brings in money to the state. Hundreds of millions, or even a billion dollars annually, since California is such a large state.

Third, if it's legal, then it will be allowed for medical uses much more frequently. The state could once again "get a cut" of its use in medical facilities. It might also be cheaper to treat certain cases with the use of marijuana than more expensive and complex drugs, saving on health care costs.

Overall, you turn a several billion dollar annual expenditure into a one or two billion dollar net annual income.

[DFW]

28. Doesn't California have a sales tax?

Just make pot subject to normal sales tax like everything else. That should bring
in a few hundred million right there. Plus state income taxes on profits of growers
and paraphernalia sellers, income taxes on worker in the new industry, it could have
a real snowball effect on the economy. Just make sure there are special lanes on the
freeways for potheads.........

Now, being from the South, we could do it differently: have a Bible Tax. Every bible sold
would be subject to an extra tax which would go toward improving roads and health care, etc.
that should do for us what sales tax on legalized marijuana could do for California!:evilgrin:

[1]

29. yeah, i get the joke... heh, heh, heh, fuck 'um....

but this entire week i have seen all of these proposals for how to get california out of its budget crisis. the number one answer is always "legalize marijuana and tax it." budget crisis solved.

cool.

except, every time you ask someone how that would be accomplished, they all snicker and say "fuck the man" we will grow our herb outside of the law and pay no taxes anyway. heh, heh, heh...

the argument lacks... how can i say this... some sort of commitment to the crisis?

[girl gone mad]

34. You were given many good reponses in this thread and you ignored them all.

So what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your pro-authoritarian propaganda?

[Tsiyu]

44. I don't think the OP wanted answers

I think 1 is merely posterbating..


But we tried....sigh

[EOTE]

60. Are you having fun talking to yourself, dude?

Or are you merely pretending not to see all the posts which explain (quite eloquently I might add) exactly how legalization helps, if not solves, a lot with California's budget issues. And by the way, when you have a crisis, you have to look at MANY things. It's outright stupidity to look at one issue and say "Well, doing this thing might HELP, but it won't actually SOLVE the crisis at hand, so it's not worth doing.". It's thinking like that that got us into this hole we're in to an extent. There is not one single issue or proposal that will undo California's budget crisis, but to ignore big things like this simply because they are not panacea is sheer idiocy.

[Monk06]

30. License the growers and charge them a VAT based on their wholesale

revenue. Then make it illegal to grow without a
license.

Big growers would jump at the chance to go legit
for say 12% of their wholesale revenue.

Unlicensed growers would be frozen out by larger
producers selling a superior product legally

[CJCRANE]

32. You seem to underestimate

the ability of big business to see a market niche and exploit it.

The beer and tobacco industry seem to have done pretty well out of selling us something we could produce ourselves.

[historian]

33. taxing is not the problem

throw some seeds in your back yard and happy mental meandering. Who is to know and what will they tax you on? Or we could follow the intelligent dutch who allow the sale of marijuana or hash in cafes - they have to pay a permit and also a % of sales. the next good thing about this system is that if anything apart from dope is found in the cafe, it is closed down and some people will see jail. Best of all it keeps the sleaze butts off the streets selling cow dung as afghan hash!!!!
Oh and the other problem is that our government has the collective iq of a dead carrot. For heaven's sake, even mexico has legalized the stuff!!!

[RadiationTherapy]

35. False argument: You cannot "immediately" solve this crisis using any one tool.

The cumulative effect of legal marijuana on an economy would be, at first, much more about saving money on enforcement and imprisonment. Eventually, as an infrastructure develops, a popular tax revenue will be generated.

I see the marijuana issue as a human issue; I don't really care about its money potential. But, again, there is no immediate solution to this crisis.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. Dude! Pass that over here!

Taxing is easy! (inhale) Just like collecting taxes on beer, cigarettes. Get the retailer to pay the tax.

Of course, a few enterprising souls (inhale) may grow their own, but most would just go to the store.

Street dealers (inhale) are history, dude! See many guys selling beer or cigarettes from the trunk of their cars? Yeah, (inhale) there are a few, but that "industry", along with the expense of prosecution and incarceration, is gone.

Deep, huh?

Got any chocolate chip cookies?

:hi:

[eShirl]

37. would it help to release those imprisoned solely for growing, selling or possessing cannibis?

[MattBaggins]

38. You have no imagination

See I live in a college town and the minute NY legalizes MJ; I will open up a small food joint as close as possible to the nearby college. Since the old adage of starting a business in a field you know is still true, I can not fail. It may have been a long time ago, but I know pot, I went to college and I worked in a chinese restaurant so I know what the college kids eat. I intend to serve a broad range of the most popular simple items that appeal to the kids and as a bonus they can get some hooch delivered to their dorm rooms.

I have reason to believe I will generate tax revenue, provide jobs, stimulate the local economy, and make myself a pretty nest egg.

Win/Win if you ask me.

[JVS]

40. Philip Morris take years?

I'm sure they have already planned for such a contingency and would have the shelves overflowing with product within a week.

[AngryAmish]

41. You don't, but a lot of potheads tend to be magical thinkers

It is stupid to have this drug illegal and nobody should be getting a record for wanting to get high.

In the short term many drug producing countries (Columbia, et al.) have a crop in the ground already and would like to have the sales legal.

I would licenses large scale growers and sell it mail-order. Maybe have the mail sent to a local government office where a clerk can check IDs. That way "the children" won't see it in the stores. (I know it's bullshit but one must make comprises to get what one wants.)

[Tsiyu]

55. Those who stand in solidarity with current cannabis laws

are the "magical" thinkers.

"I agree with the magical idea that we can eradicate cannabis use!

It's just magic that billions are wasted on a failed Drug War, and absolutely magical and happy land time that millions of my fellow Americans are suffering because of Prohibition.!

I'm so magically happy about that!!!!!

And, magically, cannabis policy is most certainly NOT the cause of any economic strain for anybody in America so stop saying that!"

Prohibition is so MAGICAL!!!!!!!

[serrano2008]

42. You solve it just like you could solve world hunger by legalizing marijuana...pot brownies man!

Really, pot-heads think they can solve any problem by legalizing marijuana and it really only solves one problem - that they can't get stoned legally.

But...don't try to have a rational conversation about it with them cause they'll start comparing their quest to get pot legalized to Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, etc.. It gets messy and progressively dumber as the conversation goes along.

[Tsiyu]

45. So you're okay with the absolute DUMBNESS

of our current system?

It's okay to spend billions we don't have putting cannabis users in prison?

It's okay to see the human toll, the financial toll?

It's not childish and Pie-in-the-sky to force Americans to imort industrial hemp when it could grow here and OUR farmers could get that revenue?

It's not Fantasy Land to pretend that some day you can screw over enough people and they will suddenly stop using cannabis? Hello????


Prohibition of alcohol was a great big fantsy. Now we have seemingly educated people in the new Temperance League of America. Put on that dress Granny and wave your rolling pin at those evil pot users. That'll make em quit.

Just close your mind and call names!!!!!!!! That's rational, man!!!!!!

[dysfunctional press]

47. actually, most would compare it to prohibition, and wonder why alcohol is legal but pot isn't...

ditto for cigs.

both alcohol and tobacco are more deadly and more addictive than pot- yet they both remain completely legal. :shrug:

[Romulox]

48. The right not to be imprisoned isn't a Civil Right?

I didn't realize we were debating with an (ahem) great legal mind here! :eyes:

[Mr. Hyde]

50. Well, you could stop spending countless millions of dollars trying to arrest & incarcerate potheads

for starters.

[defendandprotect]

52. How do you tax alcohol or cigarettes -- or wallets, or perfume?

Marijuana would be sold in liquor stores, I presume ---

and, beyond that, many other nations deal with marijuana differently and

we're not inventing the wheel!

[snooper2]

53. I spend around $40 a week in smoke- I would pay 10% tax--

There's $16 a month just from me :)

[defendandprotect]

54. PLUS, recovering all the expenses of the phony Drug War . . .planes, ships,

spraying, interference in the affairs of other nations ---

Prisoners -- $50,000 per year!

Local enforcement distracted by the glory of hunting down a drug offender!!!

Yesterday, on the GSP, a police car nearly ran me off the road cause he was

rushing to back up a fellow officer a few blocks down the highway who had

pulled over a black driver. Everywhere now, police departments treat traffic

offenders as criminals because you MAY have drugs in the car!!!

So two police cars respond now to any traffic violation.

And a lot of assets can change hands this way . . . !!!

Drug traffic cannot exist without the assistance of corrupt elected officials at

the highest levels and corrupt police enforcement.

How does such criminality at high levels profit us?

[seasat]

58. Get the state Repubs stoned

Feed them pot laced apple pie, get them stoned, and have them pass progressive tax reforms by tell them they are voting for pizza. Simple! ;)

[Fleshdancer]

59. The financial gain won't be immediate for the reasons you state

It would take time to create the system that allows for permits, to determine where it can be sold, figure out the tax situation, agree on the new laws placed on its use, etc. I don't know what the forecasted profits are for CA if they legalize, but if it's significant, then I bet they could fast track it and have everything in place in a year.

Right now California needs the stimulus package to keep from drowning. I think terminating 20,000 state jobs right before the bill passes is beyond stupid and will end up working against them financially, but it wasn't my decision to make obviously. With things so bad financially for the state, I'm hoping mother nature will be on her best behavior. No earthquakes or massive fires please.

[hedgehog]

61. i can't believe that no one in this thread has even mentioned the entire

new corners of the economy from advertising and marketing marijuana! What about al the law suits trying to corner the copyright on Acapulco Gold?

[Greyhound]

65. Already done in the 70s. n/t

[bridgit]

62. It's not a key to solving it's a combination; decriminalization alone would alleviate...

law enforcement hours *to* prosecute considerably in addition to easing costs of incarcerations & prison populations where such are found to be non-violent in particular such as growing & usage. Legalization, however, would eliminate many other illicit categories such as: storm trooping to acquire (if you will), violent turf considerations including armed assault & batteries, death, property theft and destruction of properties as well other incursions upon rights to peace & tranquility i.e. extortions, kidnapping, blackmailing. Where such criminal activity still persists to include DUI existing laws are to remain in-place. But there can be little doubt...

Decriminalization/Legalization of MJ would release a considered stressor impacting upon budgetary considerations the likes of which provides a cascading effect in the negative.

"solve an immediate state budgetary crisis"? No. Again it is not a keyed lock it is a combination imo

[Greyhound]

64. Legalization would cause the price to drop and the street dealers cease

to exist because there is no profit in it. Cafes open and retailers start selling it, and as legitimate businesses, collect taxes on it just like they do everything else they sell.

Legality also brings inspections for purity and some means of grading and those that grow it have to be licensed and there's more fees and taxes. Do you know the specific mechanism that, California for example, uses to tax any other crop? Same mechanism.

This will not happen the same day it becomes legal, but in a few months, maybe a couple of years, the illicit sources will disappear simply because there is not enough profit left to justify continuing in that business. Why would anybody pay $200+ per ounce for something they can buy at 7-11 for $10?

Since we already expend and extraordinary amount of resources on this fake "drug war", most of which is devoted to the easy pickings of pot, we will have an excess of DEA agents, there is no reason to think "millions more" would be required, in fact, we will need far fewer. I'd guess that pot would be included in under the jurisdiction of BATF since they already have the mechanisms to monitor and regulate this type of thing in place, so some of the excess DEA people would be moved over there.

If you think that the tobacco companies would take years to switch/add production to pot, you know nothing about the tobacco industry. By the time their first crop is ready, so will the packaging and distribution, so 3 months.

What else do you want to know?

[1]

68. "What else do you want to know?"

golly, all sorts of things...

"Legalization would cause the price to drop and the street dealers cease"

i doubt that. your assertions are comical...

"Legality also brings inspections for purity and some means of grading and those that grow it have to be licensed and there's more fees and taxes." "Why would anybody pay $200+ per ounce for something they can buy at 7-11 for $10?"

because, friend, your price at the 7-11 is not going to be $10. inspections, licensing, fees, production costs and taxes, taxes, taxes are going to drive the end cost through the roof. $10 wouldn't even come close to covering a pittance of the california state tax alone. let alone the federal taxes. city taxes. plus all of the other costs involved. and it won't be sold by the ounce. but in little packages of 20 rolled tax-stamped smokes. produced by the cigarette manufacturers with their own growers, not hippies from the hills (and if you knew their growing methods, you might quit altogether.) $200+ per ounce will seem like a bargain by the time government is through with this.

not to mention every time a pet project bill is introduced in a state or federal legislature that requires a funding source. take a guess at which tax increase they will pursue for that funding? talk to a cigarette smoker about that.

and if you think an "extraordinary amount of resources" is being expended on the pursuit of growers and dealers now, wait until marijuana moves from an illegal item to a tax source of important funding. they don't like the illegal, but they pursue with a real vengeance the sources of their taxable cash flow.

marijuana smokers have a very simple understanding of the governmental, business and tax implications of legalization. you actually have it pretty good right now, as an end user. it sucks on the production side, but there are also great rewards there, so that is what it is.

i don't care either way. i don't smoke. i don't care if you do. i only started this thread because of all of the starry-eyed posts that implied that the answer to all of our woes is legalization. ha!

its not.

but if y'all think a $10 oz is awaiting you at the 7-11 post legalization, then dream on buds...

[Tsiyu]

69. So that's all you got?

"Well, it won't be cheap and blah blah blah"

There are plenty of states who already allow medical MJ sales and they aren't getting any advice from your highly rational, above-average self.

Be honest. You don't want to imagine any possibilities here.

You are one of those happy magical thinkers who believes we should just keep things as they are.

But my state has already tried to set up a tax system. They're being unconstitutional of course in the way they're going about it, but there is nothing "magical" about trying to get revenue from a crop that is your state's number one cash crop.

People like you have blinders on. You hate change, and you don't care how many people suffer as long as there is no change in your sedate little world.

Well, I'm suffering right now. I have PTSD, the symptoms are helped tremendously by cannabis, but I shouldn't use it (and can't afford it) or I go to jail.

Yesterday, I ate nothing all day until a friend (who uses for fibromyalgia) heard me complaining and offered me some. I finally ate something a few hours later. It is the only thing I can use to stimulate an appetite. I know you could give two shits about your fellow man, and you just think it's good enough that I suffer but that says more about you than we "Magical Medical Cannabis" people.

Today? Haven't eaten yet. Feel like puking since I got up this morning.
Thanks to people like you, until I move to a more progressive state, I will continue to suffer.

So all I can say is Thanks for nothing yourself. Posterbate some more...it makes you feel so superior, doesn't it.

[bridgit]

71. Peace ~

:)

[Tsiyu]

73. Peace back atche bridgit :))))))

The sun has just started shining wondrously after an awful hailstorm!

A warm beautiful day here...hope your day is pretty, too :hug:

[bridgit]

75. It rained like the dickens all day yesterday, windy cold & blustery...

I can see a bit of sunshine today :hug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

74. You doubt legalization would cause a price drop and eliminate dealers?

Do you understand basic economics?