Sports vs. Education

[goddess40]

Sports are winning. We cut teachers and programs from our districts but continue to leave sports operating at full force.

But sports has another damaging effect as Dave Zirin states so well in his article:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090223/zirin

"The reasons for the home run boom extend far beyond the steroid dealer. The boom reverberates in every urban budget, every underfunded school and every library that closes early. In the past twenty years, more than fifteen publicly funded baseball parks have been built in the United States. They are supposed to be fan-friendly--that is, unless your child happens to go to a school whose shrinking budgets were paying the tab. The shorter fences at these parks are engineered to yield more home runs. "

[Strong Atheist]

1. No kidding. Sports are the least important thing in the universe, but

they get all the money...

[ThomWV]

2. I have never thought sports should be part of our school programs

I have always objected to sport in schools. It has nothing what so ever to do with education.

[pampango]

3. We've had several foreign exchange students from different countries in Europe

and they were all surprised with how we link schools and sports. In their countries there are plenty of sports (soccer in particular of course) but the leagues are not tied to the schools in any way. I appreciate the role that sports can play in the lives of children, but there is no reason to link it with the school system.

To me, the practice of building publicly funded stadiums for professional sports teams owned by multi-millionaires or billionaires makes absolutely no sense. The way professional sports teams "extort" money from cities and states ("or we will take our team elsewhere") is immoral if not illegal.

[Strong Atheist]

5. Agreed! nt.

[tblue37]

35. Even worse, an marginal student--even an illiterate on--can get a

full ride college scholarship if he plays a sport well, but brilliant students often go tens of thousands of dollars into debt just to get a college degree.

[TK421]

4. I am in total agreement with you there

Also, I never thought gym should be part of the school experience either..for too many reasons to even list here now.

[CRF450]

39. So you'd advocate kids to turn into fatties?

[TK421]

40. Is that what I said?

didn't think so....I don't think it has a place in school

[krabigirl]

46. This is related to school sports how, exactly?

PE should still be required, but the team sports crap shouldn't be tied to education.

[Raskolnik]

14. Do chorus or jazz band have anything to do with education?

Sure they do. Just like sports do.

[madmom]

17. But do chorus and jazz band get any where near the money or recognition sports does? Not around here

I've been saying this for years, but it always lands on deaf ears.Every time I ask a question about costs, I always get "that's paid for by the booster" Do the boosters buy the school buses they use, do the boosters pay for the maintenance of said buses? That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with more.

[Raskolnik]

18. That's a completely separate issue than ThomWV's contention that sports have nothing

to do with education.

[madmom]

19. I don't think it is. The money these schools take in via property taxes are always

precipitated with threats of we'll lose football or some such shit. Not we need new books or desks or any school/education related items.Sports takes away from the learning environment just be being intermixed with it.

[Raskolnik]

20. No, you're changing the subject.

The issue of whether sports are over-funded, or whether other extra-curricular programs deserve to be funded equivalently to sports programs is NOT the same issue as whether sports belong in public education in the first place.

One may believe that sports have their place within public schools, but should not be emphasized to the degree they are. One may also believe that sports have their place within public schools, and believe that art/music programs are also vital portions of a good education.

[madmom]

21. And I reiterate money is being taken away from learning programs and are being

spent on sports programs. Therefore they do NOT belong in a mixed forum.I know quite a few people who have a career from an art/music education but none from a sports education. They do not belong together.

[Raskolnik]

22. Are you trying to say that sports do not belong in public education?

[madmom]

23. UM .. yes I think that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Raskolnik]

25. Well, I think that's a misguided position.

Sports can be, and often are, over-emphasized in public schools, but that doesn't mean that they don't have their value. A good sports program teaches teamwork, healthy competition, physical fitness, and can help help keep kids interested in school that might otherwise have no use for it.

What's wrong with sports being used as a part of a well-rounded education?

[madmom]

27. Nothing if that is/was how they are used but they are not. To much

emphasis is put on whether you're good at sports and not on real learning programs. It wasn't to long ago there was a real public outrage over the fact that to many professional athletes couldn't read above 5th grade level. These people were and to some degree still are passed upward because they are good a running or are good quarter backs or something else just as ridiculous. Emphasis needs to be on learning.

[GoneOffShore]

36. Jazz bands and chorus have far more to do with education than sports.

I remember listening to a retired Marine colonel talking about his high school days.

Someone asked him where he learned about discipline.

Guess what his reply was?

In marching band. "I learned to really be part of a team, to show up on time and to do my part. And I gained a real appreciation for music. Football taught me how to throw a ball, nothing else. Music has lasted my entire life."

Arts education is exactly that - education. Sport, not so much.

[AwakeAtLast]

41. Music is an academic subject

taught by this Music Teacher. Higher order thinking in spades.

What is academic about sports? :shrug:

[deaniac21]

42. Are you against an education in drama?

[Marrah_G]

6. I am fortunate to live in a place that does not value sports over education

The coaches are teachers and any kid screwing up in school doesn't play.

I have one son in Football and another in Drama Club, both are seen as equally good after school pursuits.

Football, for my youngest, was very important. He has developmental problems and is not over weight because he rarely left the house during his middle school days. Football got him exercising again, made lots of new friends, now has upper classmen to defend him, etc. He is building his confidence and I am thankful to the coaches.

Any town putting sports over education is a sad, sad thing.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. You Live In A Rare Area, Marrah

I don't think i've ever heard or read anybody else say that.
GAC

[Marrah_G]

8. My guy also coaches HS football as a second job.

Not in my town, but he also values grades over sports.

I have heard nightmare stories about other areas of the country though, where football is godlike.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. It's Not Horrible In My Area

But, it's not like your area. But, geez i saw a report not long ago where a town in Texas was building a 20,000 seat football stadium for high school football. 20k people for a high school game. That seems preposterous.
GAC

[Marrah_G]

11. Yeah- Texas, southern FL come to mind right away

[Horse with no Name]

26. Take a look at these pics

Population in July 2007: 8,451.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Royse-City-Texas.html





http://www.roysecityfootball.com/facilities.htm

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Sheesh!

The public stadium used by the private school around here (and it's a football power with something like 10 state championships) only holds like 6500 people and the town is 140k.

The minor league baseball team's park isn't that big.
GAC

[8 track mind]

44. And royce city is not that big of a town. Just a dot on I-30.

Or so it used to be.

[KharmaTrain]

9. Sports = Money...

For some school districts and many colleges, the athletic program can generate some much needed revenue that covers the expense of the entire sports department. One such company are the beverage ones...Coke & Pepsi...who pay for the "exclusive rights" at the sporting contests...as well as in the food court or cafeteria. They're there for and because of the athletics...it's known as "alternative revenue".

It's a shame we have to have any educational cuts...depriving young people of not just more learning opportunities, but the social and real world skills that come with extra cirricular activities. Locally we've fought to save the music programs in our district...including lobbying for meager state money...while athletics here is detached...fully self supporting now, that's why their immune from any cuts.

[HelenWheels]

12. If you ask to see the proof that the sports make money

you won't get any. At least on the high school end of it. I don't know about colleges but our district can't even tell you what the bottom line is for each sport.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Money From Cellphone Company...

It's proof I see every time I drive past the high school. Atop the lights at the stadium...where they play football...are a bunch of cellphone towers that are paying a nice penny to the School District. When my children were involved in the theater program, we got donations from both the athletic department and their boosters to suplement what we got from the school district. Just cause you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Cheers...

[Blue_Tires]

15. sadly, a lot of the graft, corruption, abuse and

win-at-ALL-costs mentality which dominates the NCAA has trickled down to high schools (due in large part to the putrid cesspool that is recruiting)...in fact it's worse in many cases, because there is less oversight and the guilty never get punished...AAU, HS teams flying cross-country to play a game on TV, inflated coaches' salaries have put all the priorities askew, from the school systems to the principals, teachers, and coaches, to the players who all think they will be million-dollar pros someday...I've seen (famous) high schools with old books, drippy ceilings and paint peeling off walls have half-million dollar football budgets (much of it through donations, but still)...

[Ohio Joe]

16. It is disgusting here in Columbus

OSU pretty much prints money with the buckeye merchandising yet tuition keeps going up.

[Horse with no Name]

24. Our local schools are failing miserably

Our superintendent had to go to Austin recently to beg for them to be left open.
However, one more round of low test scores and all the begging will be for nothing.
Our sports programs are massively overfunded.
The coaches make an average 25-50% MORE than "just teachers".
My best friend (who is a teacher) has a son that took a Spanish class last year that was "taught" by a coach.
On the first day of school, the students were told by the coach/teacher--"we're going to have to learn this together. I don't know Spanish either but it was the only opening they had".:wow:
I refuse to send my granddaughter to school here.
I drive her to another district that actually values education.
The sports program (and all the money that goes with it)NEEDS to go.
However, it won't.
The school has had two recent "near misses" in professional football players (of which one--a college standout) is now under indictment for drug trafficking. Luckily that happened BEFORE they named the school after him.:eyes:
The only way these schools will stop funding their entire budgets into the sports programs is when the state has to close them down because the coaches can't teach the kids the fundamentals.

[NeedleCast]

29. cant speak for all schools

but most coaches at my high school taught 5 non-sport classes in an eight period day, plus their regular period of coaching and were often at the school for practice/games for many extra hours. That's why they got paid more.

[NeedleCast]

28. Depending on the School and distrcit

Sports bring in a shit-storm of money for many school districts, although I honestly don't know how they are distributed.

[HelenWheels]

32. I think that's the myth they like to put out there

ask them to show you the money and I'll bet you get the run around.

[fishnfla]

30. Hmm, round here you cant play sports unless you keep up your grades

not just school sports

you gotta turn a report card for Pop Warner football even

[Scooter24]

33. Our sports programs bring in a considerable amount of money for our school,

because they are well-funded and organized. However, we do not trade off academic performance as our graduates enjoy a near 100% passing score on all 4 major state assessment test areas. http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/achievement/tx/3294#taks


"Highland Park High has one of the most successful and tradition-rich athletic programs in Texas. In 2005, Sports Illustrated listed them as the best sports program in the state of Texas (16th in the US)."

We have also won the 4A Lone Star Cup (awarded to the school with the best combined academic and athletic extra-curricular achievements) 8 times out of the past 10 years (and on track for number 9).

In 2005 the 4A State Football Championship game was chosen to be held in a 14,000-seat stadium that many of our parents and fans found to be inadequate and small. The result was about 20,000 fans having their ticket requests denied. So what happened afterward? Our State Rep. vowed to hold public hearings on the system and a few months later, the UIL Legislative Council approved a rule change for determining playoff sites, stating that a school cannot choose a football playoff venue that cannot adequately accommodate both teams' fans. This came to be known as the "Highland Park" rule.

I personally wouldn't want anything to change as we have a winning formula that works well in our community.

Football is a big deal here in TX- A couple of our area's largest high school stadiums-

Mesquite Memorial (Capacity 20,000) Mesquite ISD


Pizza Hut Park (Capacity 22,000) Frisco ISD


Memorial Stadium (Capacity 17,000) Wichita Falls ISD


John Clark Field (Capacity 16,000) Plano ISD

[Catshrink]

34. Our school has lost its focus.

I cannot believe how many kids are out of class during a week for field trips, sporting events, band concerts and trips, etc. It's absolutely ridiculous. I feel like I'm supposed to be an edutainer, not educator. It is out of control.

Today I let one of the field trip coordinators know that three students on the list were failing and shouldn't be going. They are failing because they do little work and are therefore unprepared for assessments. I couldn't believe the negotiating. The field trip was to take photos -- I don't understand why that can't be done somewhere else. I feel that allowing them to go on these things rewards them for their goofing off. There are no consequences. If they had firm standard they had to meet before being allowed to have the fun stuff, maybe it would mean more.

Sorry to vent. It was just one of those very frustrating days.

[snot]

37. The new opiate of the masses, as Chomsky pointed out decades ago.

[Eryemil]

38. Sports are not an intrinsic part of an ademic setting in my opinion

As an elective through primary and secondary school yes but nothing beyond that.
It is disgusting how these practically illiterate, dumb-as-a-lamppost hockey/football/baseball/etc jocks get so many concessions. Specially in terms of the availability of post-secondary education.

[deaniac21]

43. I think it may be possible to have a career in sports. I may be

wrong.

[8 track mind]

45. Great topic, here is something i posted in a similar thread earlier today

I grew up in Paris, Texas. The football program and the coaches had priority over EVERYTHING in my school. They had all of the latest equipment and the coaches could do no wrong. The football players were some of the most uneducated students in my school, most of them reading on the 4th grade level in the 12th grade. The no pass no play rule was a freaking joke and most grades were simply "fixed" to enable the student to play. We had a saying at the time; He can't read, write, or add 2+2, but dammit he can throw a football!

The star of the football team in my junior year, skipped school, went across the border to oklahoma, bought 3 cases of beer, got totally drunk, rolled his truck on the way back, breaking the jaw of his passenger, and got off the hook scott fucking free and played football the next friday.

During my Junior and Senior year in high school, We had a fantastic Auto Mechanics course. This wasn't a blow off elective; this class taught you the art of troubleshooting and critical thinking. The funding really wasn't there for us. But my instructor basically lobbied GM, Ford, Chrysler, area dealerships, TSTC, Wyoming Tech, and anybody else that would answer a phone for donations and equipment on a daily basis. He did this on his own time and it paid off royally. We got three cars donated to us by GM and Toyota. Dealerships would loan us new cars to prepare us for troubleshooting contests. We managed to raise enough money for an Allen Smart Scope diagnostic machine and a new FMC alignment machine. He cranked out some seriously fine mechanics and competition winners. A lot of kids got full paid scholarships thanks to his efforts. He was constantly going to the school board trying to get funding for new equipment, teaching aids, ect, but all of the money was being diverted to the football program. The school counselors used to treat his class as a dumping ground for all of the worst students in the school, but when the dust settled, he took some of the worst kids the school had ever seen and turned them into some of the most sharpest and successful mechanics you have ever seen. I was one of his students and i owe a huge debt of gratitude to Mr. Bolton.

Texas needs to grow the fuck up and realize that football is a LOWER priority than a child's education. No wonder these stupid fucks i am surrounded by in this god forsaken state vote republican.