US car crash and safety standards exist for one reason: To save insurance companies money.

[RB TexLa]

The stimulus bill should change the law to allow smaller cars with higher mileage to be sold without meeting the insurance companies standards. Safety and crash ratings can be disclosed and the public can make their decisions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. No, they exist to save lives

:banghead:

[frazzled]

2. Um, no

Jeebus, that's a nutty argument.

Remember Unsafe at Any Speed? Guess not.

Take away the safety standards, and manufacturers will start selling us total death trap craps ... and we will pay for your brain injuries and motorized wheel chairs.

[originalpckelly]

3. Partly right, we need to segregate traffic into heavy v. light...

so that a light car can be sold, without the heavy danger of colliding with heavy vehicles.

[susanna]

7. Well, as Grandpa used to say, that cow is out of the barn.

Simply recalling the 90s, when SUVs were glutting the nation's highways, there was not any sort of "heavy vs. light" traffic flow discussed. And a lot of people, in standard, boring, "un-hip" (and not really that small) sedans and hatchbacks died while the behemoths overtook the roads.

I simply do not see how the U.S. can rely on any meaningful number of ultra-light cars. The infrastructure (and general length of travel) just isn't built for it. But your ideas are welcome. I wish I could see that far.

[texastoast]

18. Scooter lanes, bike lanes, Smart lanes

That's looking ahead (and behind). Austin has had bike lanes for decades. I'm sure other Smart Growth cities provide for them as well. Great ideas.

[CanSocDem]

21. And transport trucks can be built....

...and operated without the limitations created by sharing space with smaller vehicles. They would instantly become more efficient.

.

[Oregone]

4. So Nader was just a plant of the insurance corps! I knew it!

[texastoast]

5. Partly

And there is no reason that a small, inexpensive car can't be safe. My neighbor brought one of these home for about $13,000. I'm waiting until I can get a used one (of course), but that's okay. It's a Mercedes.

Hmm. Wonder what happened to that $12B Bush gave the U.S. automakers to develop fuel efficient cars? Oh yeah, GM gave us the Hummer and a request for a bailout. Why does Europe seem to be light years ahead of us on this one? You know, I know America could have thought of this. Coulda, woulda, and certainly shoulda.


http://www.smartusa.com/index.aspx
The 2008 smart fortwo achieved the highest ratings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) for front and side crashworthiness. We encourage you to see for yourself how the smart performed in the tests conducted by the IIHS by visiting www.iihs.org.

[Hoopla Phil]

6. I was very surprised to see one of those on I-10 last month.

Looked kind of like a rolling hood ornament. LOL

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. I wouldn't drive one.

Not in Texas, with all the pickups and SUVs running around.

I wouldn't have a Mini Cooper either for the same reason. Too small to tolerate crashes with big vehicles without major damage to the car and the occupants.

[CRF450]

11. I happily drive a small sports car knowing I can out manuver and out brake the...

5000+ pound SUV's out their. Of course none of the econo cars out their even the Smart car doesn't appeal to me, so I wouldn't drive one either. The Dodge Dakota truck I have handles surprisingly well for a pickup, I'v done put it through its paces like I did with my car.

[texastoast]

13. Did you check out the safety link?

We are getting more and more of them in the Houston area. They are safe little cars. They react more like a basketball when they are hit. The rollcage is very strong.

[Pavulon]

24. Simple Mass equation

if you get smacked in a smart or lotus by a car that weighs 4 - 6000 lbs you are dead. Offset head-on would obliterate a smart. Even with cars like the E class or a camry. Note the destruction, they talk it up here but you are dead in that car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s

[susanna]

8. I've been in one of these on I-75 in Detroit.

It could barely keep up with surrounding traffic speed and was kind of shaky. I certainly would think twice before taking it on an expressway every day. For city driving, though, it would be a dream.

The U.S. has an unfortunate situation; we are not all urban (Smart cars) and we are not all rural (4x4s). Most folks need something in between.

Now, in Europe, I'd be all over this car. It would make sense.

[Romulox]

16. Only 33 mpg city AND it requires 91 octane? Not that great, imo. nt

[texastoast]

17. I have a neighbor who drives one

And she is in a Smart groupie group. Average city is 38 according to the owners. And there are reports of 51 nighway.

The point of this whole exercise is that a small vehicle can be very safe. Now American automakers should be challenged (because the Smart is really catching on for DINKs and empty nesters in the urban areas, along with the Honda Fit) to develop a car better than the German Smart that is very safe, affordable, and gets great mileage, whether for two or four. The hybrids are a start (a Japanese start), but whoa, weren't we way behind the curve? Why is that? Why are we ALWAYS behind the curve, losing jobs and products for OUR people?

Meanwhile, GM is holding the Chevy Volt afficonados hostage, saying that if they don't get their bailout, we can forget about the Volt. As I said in another post on this thread, these are the same fuckers who took part of Bush's $12B to develop energy efficient cars and gave us the fucking Hummer. Okay, now I'm just getting madder and madder.

[blues90]

10. One thing is for certain.

When you have a small car you are up against massive raised up trucks and SUV's that there is no way you would survive if you were hit by one of these things. No air bag or shoulder belt will save you if you get run over by one. So how does this fit into the area of safety ? I have a small car and I can see clearly that my windsheild will go right under one of these raised up trucks yet there are no laws that level the safety standards in that respect. At least a semi has a low bumper front and rear. Even stock trucks have bumpers that are too high as many know when you even parallel park will smash in your hood if you bumped one.

No one ever brings that up that I have seen.

[texastoast]

15. So what can we do about that?

http://www.iihs.org/laws/petitions/pdf/petition_2008-07-01.pdf


We have to work to change those bumper standards.

I used to drive a two-seater convertible and loved the confidence the maneuverability of being small gave me. Maneuverability combined with knowing what is going on around you is a potent antidote to large, lumbering SUVs. Defensive driving--reading the road ahead, behind, and to the side of you and planning on all other drivers to do the stupidest thing they could to crash your car--will keep you safer than any large vehicle. Even Hummers are not immune to an 18-wheeler with the driver asleep at the wheel.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/05/smartfortwo.html

[blues90]

20. I don't what can be done about the bumper height

It seems here in southren calif that there are no laws against raising a truck other than there is a max height but that max is far to high as it is.

There has always been a mix of small and large units on the road but at one time people did drive better and there were not so many units on the road as there are now.

I have not had one accident since I have been driving since 1966 but I read the road , don't take risks and stay out of the way as much as possible.

What I felt was a bad move was for the big three to invent and promote the SUV and then if that was not bad enough they kept adding to the lne making them larger and larger and the owner of one had no clue how to drive on since they went from a car to an SUV so I see many SUV's on their roof on turns. People also over load vans and trucks making them past their capability and control , just because you can get the stuff in there, there is a GVW that tells you what it can handle but this is ignored or not even thought of and trucks used by plumbers are one case in point.

[CanSocDem]

22. Well said!! (eom)

[Pavulon]

23. Or a 5 series, Crown Vic, e or s class, any real car

will destroy the passengers in a ultra small car like the smart. Civic vs E class sedan is a pretty much given outcome.

Not worth risking death for 10 mpg.

[merh]

12. Are you kidding me - the republicans' tort reform did away

with plaintiff verdicts - or so limited the ability of the plaintiff to file suit and if they can file suit, to recover anything beyond actual damages - you know punitive damage caps.

The automobile industry would be making pintos to this day if it weren't for the standards and the punitive damages awards of litigants of a couple of decades ago.

Instead of disputing claims, insurance companies should pay then and save themselves the attorney fees paid to defend the lawsuits.

Stupid defense bar, tort reform and punitive damages caps have hurt them, they don't have many cases to defend so they milk the ones they have and the insurance companies still have to pay, just not to plaintiffs.

Corporate america would be building faulty equipment if the standards and successful lawsuits didn't exist.

[texastoast]

14. Yes, indeedy

The insurance companies drove tort reform. And automakers likely will return to making shoddy cars because of it. The profit they make by cheapening the safety standards can cover the minimal recovery plaintiffs now get on product liability suits.

I'd really like to know how much premiums have decreased since tort reform has been put in place. The doctors here in Texas were all over Prop 12 a few years ago because the insurance vampires were stiffing them with skyrocketing premiums due to the "enormous recovery" obtained in medical malpractice lawsuits. The true stats were that less than .01 percent of suits filed ever went to jury.

I asked a doctor once and he said that the premimums have continued to rise, but he didn't say by how much.

[bridgit]

19. Scrap OSHA too, that'll learn'em, there's still nothing says you can't buy a Smart Car ~