Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Mary Matalin has overheard daily calls with Rahm, Carville, Begala, and Stephanopoulos

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:31 PM
Original message
Mary Matalin has overheard daily calls with Rahm, Carville, Begala, and Stephanopoulos
Raise your hand if you can tell me what is wrong with that picture?

It may have been fun through the years for the junior boy's club to have its daily calls, but now that Rahm is chief of staff it is just worrisome.

Sometimes when you get to a place of high power you have to give up your fun phone calls.

Power, politics, gossip on daily call

So begins another morning in what may count as Washingtons longest-running conversation a street-corner bull session between four old friends who suddenly find themselves standing once more at the busiest intersection of politics and media in Washington.

Carville calls White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. Emanuel calls ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent George Stephanopoulos. A bit later, CNN commentator Paul Begala, who is not quite the early bird that his friends are, will complete the circle with a rapid set of calls to all three. Different versions of this round-robin chatter have been taking place, with few interruptions, every workday for nearly a generation.

I refer to it as the 17-year-long conference call, said Emanuel, who starts calling his friends at 6 a.m. You can tap into it anytime you want.


It does sound like a bunch of good friends chatting daily. Except now one of those good friends has the ear of the new president and is by his side daily.

Mary Matalin is too high up the in Republican party to be privy to anything in these calls.

The calls are about whats happening, what the implications are of whats happening and whats going on, said Emanuel.

Mary Matalin, who as Carvilles wife has overheard probably thousands of the groups calls, describes the conversation as more profane, more sports-centric versions of a knitting club.

They talk like they are girls, she said. The conversations start in the middle and they end in the middle, and if they talk at night, theyll start in the morning with no break in the flow....To me, the first purpose is friendship, said Matalin, and the second purpose is information-sharing.


Information sharing? Hmmm.. I am thinking back to just after the election wins in 2006. But that's another story.

If those calls are still going on, they should NOT be done with her in proximity. They should not be done with a news anchor on the call. Especially not one who wrote a book about Bill Clinton in 1999 called All Too Human.

Now that I think of it...when Carville and Begala were still on CNN's Crossfire in 2003, 2004, and 2005...when they damaged reputations of one of the presidential candidates and mocked Al Gore almost daily....were they on the phone daily with Rahm and Stephanopoulos back then?

When a person is in such a powerful position, he should take more precautions than that.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. First thing I thought of when I read this yesterday. Rahm needs to be
very careful here. She would make it her business to be slinking around behind closed doors or whatever else to hear these conversations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
95. Rahm must feel like his chestnuts are roasting over an open fire
I agree, he should step very very carefully.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
130. First thing I thought
was that with HER ears,she could pick up conversations on Mars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wonder how many of those calls have been tapped
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Stephanopoulos would sell his own mother to make a buck.
It must have ticked him off Bubba left office with a 70% approval rating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Steph had a boycrush on Bill
and never got over it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Yes, I think that's true. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. I always thought the Carvilles shared info
Edited on Wed Jan-28-09 02:39 PM by Cronus Protagonist
That's how each of them makes their money... spreading insider info on the other side, although it appears to me that James has a bigger mouth and less concern for keeping secrets than his wife. IMHO each of them has a major conflict of interest and neither should be privy to any "private" party information.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
108. If you want to know the real James Carville, watch the movie
Our Brand Is Crisis. That is a must see. If you liked Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine, you will love Our Brand Is Crisis. Be sure to see it, and you will realize how dangerous James Carville really is and how totally lacking in any genuine populist or progressive values he is. He is a big, phony hack married to an equally big, phony hack. They are physically and spiritually and emotionally repulsive people. Watch Our Brand Is Crisis.

Comment from IMDB:

This film shows what a group of American Mercenaries can accomplish if they really try., 13 November 2006
10/10
Author: dans-18 from United States

American mercenary consultants led by James Carville go to Bolivia to influence and control the 2002 Bolivian Presidential Campaign. They claim to represent the candidate who stands the best chance of improving the plight of the Bolivian people, but in fact they are representing the candidate willing to pay them to come to Bolivia. Their client Goni (GONZALO SANCHEZ DE LOZADA) is an arrogant ruling class cigar-chomping goof who does whatever the consultants say. Ben Stiller's separated-at-birth twin, Jeremy Rosner, is the key Carville employee.

Carville's people proceed to intentionally distort the record of the leading candidate, center-right leading candidate, Manfred Reyes, the mayor of Bolivia's Cochabama. Their negative campaigning seems to know no bounds, taking tactics right out of Karl Rove's playbook. They also attack Evo Morales and are helped in their efforts by the Bush Administration's Ambassador to Bolivia, Manuel Rocha. Manuel Rocha attacks Evo Morales, resulting in a huge gain in popularity for Evo.

Goni eventually wins with 21% of the vote, thanks to Carville's consultants. Then the whole country falls apart. Goni goes into exile in the U.S.

Great insight into the mindset of James Carville and his employees. Not exactly flattering for Carville, who doesn't seem to get the point.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0492714/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #108
137. It seems that the real breach of public trust here
is for the *news* reporters. Politicians represent themselves as sincere, but most people don't believe it. Media faces, OTOH are trusted implicitly. This tells us they are complicit in the loop, but would never be truthful with the public.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Al Hunt..isn't he Judy Woodruff's hubby? Mixing "journalism" and friendship?
"Still, the line between journalism and politics is not always bright. Begala said he often cant remember the originator of any particular insight: We talk so much was this my idea that James changed, or was this Georges observation that Rahm tweaked?

Al Hunt, the Washington bureau chief for Bloomberg News, said he talks with Carville almost every day one of a roster of Washington reporters in that category. There is no parallel, he said, to a group of friends who has remained so central to the daily shaping of Washington conversation as these Clinton-era comrades."

The bureau chief for Bloomberg talks daily with Carville?

Begala can't remember whose idea was whose??

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
105. It's all so very innocent, and all is so very much fun lite -
Edited on Thu Jan-29-09 07:33 PM by truedelphi
Except for when it isn't

Right after the 2:45 Am Announcement by Andy Card that Bush had secured his second term of office, Kerry was in the dark.

Had the state of Ohio really truly gone into the Repug column?

Who should Kerry rely on if not his boy buddy, one James Carville.

Here's the play by play --
Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg
I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.


Blackwell sees to it that through Matalin, carville ehars that the "Correct"number of uncounted ballots is a mere 150,000.

SO now we have Obama's sphere of influence includes this same pattern of Rahm, Carville begalia, Matalin etc.

No wonder Obama is being told repeatedly to be all "bi-partisian"

And no wonder he installed Hillary as Secretary of Stae over Kerry, despite Kerry's attitudes being much closer to what Obama purports to be his ownt ake on things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. And only the blogosphere has called out the Carville/Matalins on that from 2004
The media overall has ignored it. Carville can do anything, and it appears to be alright.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panAmerican Donating Member (864 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good snark
What is she supposed to do? Run out of the room when one of the guys call her husband?

Relationships like the one Matalin and Carville have are all too common in elite political families. They are powerful enough to know and influence both sides of the aisle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
88. Mary's the ONLY GOPiggy.......
But the others are ALL DINOS, who have kneecapped all the progressive Presidential candidates! None of them should be privey to the info. RAISE A STINK about this one! Emmanual has been elevated, he needs to act accordingly or step down!
Pure & Simple!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't understand why those particular three are insiders with the
Chief of Staff to begin with. Of course the Republican Lite DLC connection is probably what brings them together as a club. I hope that changes as this administration moves on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Obama is prez. This is what he wants. Hold him accountable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
138. That's true.
It was his decision. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Mata Hari of the bush white house. direct pipeline. very troubling.
is this how that bunch of dumbasses have stayed a step ahead of the smarter dems these last few years? can imanuel really keep doing this as chief of staff?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It is very troubling.
It is as though they can do or say anything, and it is okay.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Media-Government Complex-as bad for us than the Military-Industrial Complex


Frankly this is why we can't seem to get off the road to fascism. It seems to be corporations, big banks, and government vs the people.
They all have the golden parachutes, we are going to be left stranded in the economic war zone.

I think they don't take precautions because they don't think we have the power to hold them accountable.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. That is absolutely true. And I'm getting REALLY sick of it.
This whole card game in Washington has cost us regular citizens decades of hard-fought battles that we won, and have now been taken away.

We can start with this bunch pulling off the voting machine charade. They still have control over all the central tabulators. Just because they allowed the democratic republicans to win the last few races doesn't mean that we're going to relax our fight to have fair elections. They are STILL under control of the corporations and Washington doesn't seem to want to do a damned thing about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
106. Totally agree. The march to fascism began decades ago
They (corporations) in their twisted minds will not be stopped till they destroy democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm sure it's fine
I'm sure the secret service knows exactly what they are saying and will tell the prez if anything secret gets out.

They haven't been in power enough to keep secrets anyway, and who needs a government with too many secrets?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. It is not fine. The prez is complicit in this. This is shared govt/press power-PRAVDA
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
77. How do you know that Emanule doesn't stand between the Secret Service and Obama?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hate to be the downer, but as Gore Vidal wrote...
The elite don't have to conspire; they all think alike.

I'm sorry folks, but the quicker we keep this in mind, the better off we will be. These people are like the upper class snooty crowd in their own private world. They are all alike, whether we want to admit it or not. And sadly, we are their little play toys and chess pieces to move about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "toys and chess pieces"
Just about the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I have to disagree with that. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HardWorkingDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. How so.....
do you not think that people like Matlin, Carville, Begalia and Emanuel don't run in the same crowds and see regular people as cannon fodder and as a way to get to their ends? To me, they are like this big agreeable working group - from the outside they all look different, but the closer you look, people like these are really quite similar and their interests are not always the same as our interests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. All elites do not think alike. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
72. You are very naive...
it is human nature to bond together and protect one's pals against the "others." Even it is does not have a particular prejudice directed toward the others, the others are not the in group.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
85. I've heard that the bushies call us lowly peons
"fodder units". And the haves and have mores are all cut from the same cloth. Both parties.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
87. one party, two wings. only issue is...
...which wing has the upper hand at the moment, which is more a matter of style than substance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
90. Brilliant. Gore Vidal is brilliant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. That was what jumped out at me, too. No wonder Republicans seemed to be one step ahead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Has anyone ever tested James Carville for neurosyphyllis? Seriously? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Anyone else thinking back to Crossfire days?
And wondering just where all those talking points came from? Mixing politics and media and harm done to a candidate.

I have the link to the whole batch of Crossfire transcripts. Much harm done. Jon Stewart was right, they hurt our country.

Now the same ones have the ear of the fellow who has the ear of the president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
96. Isn't it ironic that a "comedian" is probably one of the most honest and
forthright members of the media that we have?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. In fact, think back to 2004 when Carville is said to have leaked Kerry strategy to the WH
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Loose Lips Sinks Ships
However, in this case they may be the ones doing the learning. This is Obama's time and while he can be very cool and calm about things he doesn't like being messed with. Word was, back a bit, that Rahm was trying to push Jarrett into the senate and get her out of the WH because she and Obama are very close. That was the reason calls to Blago were being made, feeling things out. Wonder who came up with that strategy? Anyway, the whole thing backfired and it seems Obama wasn't very happy about any of it.

As for Matalin, she better hope she doesn't end up in a jail cell some day. It's was widely reported that she was one of the creeps in the veeps office who made the fake case for war. I did wonder, and have no answer, why the Carvilles gave up their piece of prime DC real estate and moved, lock, stock and barrel to New Orleans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #24
75. This Rahm/Jarrett/Blago story is very interesting - i hadn't heard about it.
Is it speculation that Rahm was trying to get Jarrett into the Senate or is there actual confirming evidence that it happened?

thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is very ALARMING-Carville is not working in the best interests of the American people:


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg - October 7, 2006, 9:11AM
I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

-snip
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...


Friday, April 08, 2005
Million Dollar Assholes: Carville, Shrum & Greenberg

I love documentaries. A lot. Real people in real situations are always weirder, more original and more interesting than any fiction Hollywood can brew.

I saw a documentary that blew me away today but I don't mean in a good way. It was called Our Brand is Crisis, about how the firm of Carville, Greenberg and Shrum (as in James Ragin' Cajun Carville and Bob $5 million man Shrum) travel around the world meddling in political situations they know little about for fun and profit when they're not busy losing Presidential elections.

The film takes place in the Bolivian election of 2002, when Carville et. al. convinced the Bolivian people they needed to elect Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, aka Goni, an American-born candidate who speaks Spanish with an accent and who had failed miserably once before as President during the 90s. He is elected by the thinnest of margins, only to be forced to resign 14 months later amid riots that left 100 people dead.

-snip

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2005/04/million-dollar-...


Globalism extends to the American way of campaigning, it seems, and the hubris of the gringo strategists earnest ex-Clintonistas employed by James Carvilles Greenberg Carville Shrum group would be hilarious if human lives and a countrys political will werent at stake.

Its a galling and provocative experience to viewers of any political persuasion, and a reminder to the left of how easily idealism can run amok.

The Carville boys were hired by Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, a.k.a. Goni, a patrician Bolivian businessman who served a rough term as Bolivias president in the mid-90s. Gonis legacy was an unsuccessful program of capitalization (i.e., he welcomed foreign investment and watched foreigners get all the jobs).

By 2002, the time of filming, unemployment is through the roof and rural campesinos are agitating for political representation. Goni is old news and his poll numbers are dismal. Enter Jeremy Rosner, Greenberg Carville Shrums point man in Bolivia, an articulate manipulator of mass moods (and a fellow who bears an uncanny resemblance to Seth Meyers of Saturday Night Live reality parodies itself here better than any comic could).
-snip
http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2006/06/30/a_c...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Ah, yes...."Our Brand is Crisis"...messing with other countries' elections.
Needs to be mentioned frequently.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. I agree, this needs to be remembered. I've worried about Rahm. Ever since his
condemnation of Howard Dean's 50 state strategy in 2006. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. These comments from 2006 must NOT be forgotten.
Carville implicates Rahm and the Clintons on his attacks on Dean

Flush with victory after the election, Rahms allies, led by Carville, try to mount a coup at the DNC by publicly attacking Dean and suggesting he be replaced by Harold Ford, a Tennessee moderate who just lost a Senate race. You cant go into 2008 having a party chairman that is completely disconnected from the congressional leadership and the campaign committees, Carville tells me, further pounding the wedge that divides the Deaniacs and the Clintonites. When I ask if Rahm agrees, Carville says, Its not any secret that Rahm has expressed disdain for Dean and not very secret that Rahm and I are close. It doesnt take a lot of dot-connecting here.

What about the Clintons, who, given Hillarys presidential ambitions, have more cause for concern about who runs the DNC in 2008? Lets just say nobody has called me telling me this is a bad idea. Sometimes silence is eloquence. Not only did Carvilles coup fail but it arguably strengthened Dean, who, speaking before his state-party allies, mocked the attempt as a desperate attack from the old Democratic Party. Cutting his losses, Rahm quickly leaked word to the press that he and Dean had negotiated a truce.


And these comments by Rahm, mocking a whole state, a city, and a man I respect very.

Rahm ridicules Dean and Vermonters

Emanuel had witnessed this struggle in Illinois, too: it was the party regulars versus the goo-goos. Emanuel, the Daley protg, is a regular who believes money and a disciplined organization win elections. He seemed to see Dean as a goo-goo, a good-government reformer with a base of liberal idealists who are more educated and individualistic than your average Democratic machine foot soldier, but less reliable when you need someone to hand out palm cards on Election Day. The machine has been paving over goo-goos since the 19th century. As a beery alderman once put it, "Chicago ain't ready for reform."

When Emanuel and Sen. Charles Schumer of New York met with Dean to ask him to shift money to congressional races, Emanuel mocked the former Vermont governor as a political lightweight from a tiny, rural, homogenous state. "No disrespect, but some of us are arrogant enough, we come from Chicago, we think we know what it means to knock on a door," Bendavid quotes Emanuel as telling Dean. Emanuel "slammed his hand on the table," then continued his tirade: "Look, Chuck comes from Brooklyn. I come from Chicago. It ain't Burlington, Vermont. Now, we understand that Burlington knows a lot about grassroots politics and we know nothing. I know your field plan -- it doesn't exist. I've gone around the country with these races. I've seen your people. There's no plan, Howard."

According to Bendavid, Emanuel left the room vowing not to be seen with Dean if the Democrats lost on Election Day. When Dean eventually offered $20,000 a race, Emanuel told him to fuck off. (Not literally -- although it's plausible.) Eventually, Dean ponied up a $12 million nationwide get-out-the-vote drive.


Oh, I forgot about Begala...they probably all shared talking points and one thing in common. Their contempt for Howard Dean and those who supported him.

Begala called Dean an a**hole from Vermont.

That was after he apologized sort of for saying Dean hired nosepickers in some states.

"Look," he said, "When we started there were only about 15 competitive races, but Rahm made the field over 35 by the end and that had nothing to do with the 50-state strategy." I told him we never would have had so many competitive districts if not for the DNC investing staffers and resources into those states early on and expanding the playing field. "So you have people out there, what are they doing there though?" he questioned. " I told him they were building a long term infrastructure for the Democratic Party, and we had people all over America knocking on doors and spreading the Democratic message. "So what do they say when they knock on the doors then?" he asked me. I told him they had a succinct 6 point plan for a "new direction" that they were discussing, a cohesive message that we havent had in the past. "Anyway," Begala continued... "I dont need some a**hole from Vermont telling me what to do."

After that our conversation was interrupted and I walked away, but I couldnt leave before stopping by one more time. "He brought a lot of new people into this Party, " I told Begala as I passed by. He didnt reply, so I said it again, "Paul I know your view on him, but he brought a lot of new people into this Party." "Excellent, excellent," he said. Shortly after that I left the ballroom.


Turns out those 35 Begala refers to? Well, 9 of 35 won....the rest were choices by grassroots groups and not handpicked by Rahm. Later funded some of them, but Rahm choices over all lost.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. What do you think, Mad
Did Obama place Rahm to diffuse his power or have we been had?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I think the latter.
I really do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I'm starting to fear the worse as well:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wow, Al Hunt is really impressed by these fine fellows.
Makes one wonder if he consults them before he writes for Bloomberg.

"One reason the conversations are interesting, said Hunt, is that, between them, there is rarely more than one degree of separation from virtually any subject in the news. Emanuel, in addition to his White House role, made a fortune in investment banking and has a brother who is a top Hollywood agent. Stephanopoulos moves in top media circles. So do Begala and Carville, both of whom appear on CNN and know numerous actors and writers.

You cant think of many bases you dont cover, said Hunt. Maybe morticians?

These are really important fellows, I guess. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't forget Carville calling WH to tell Matalin Kerry was challenging provisional ballots in Ohio
and Matalin went to Cheney, who went to Bush who called Blackwell, who went to Ohio Dems and told them the number of provisional ballots was 150,000 ballots less than they were told earlier.

Thanks James - many of us know you were working to protect Bush and your war criminal wife, and for Hillary2008.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Mentioned it. See post #23.
That was inexcusable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
91. The fact that he married her tells me all I need to know about him
I would bet she is the one who wears the leather and boots, and he is the one crying "Please hurt me Mommy"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #91
98. Exactly what I believe.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
131. Man in the middle voting scam
These continous references to Blackwell and Ohio vote counts make me think of the GOP IT guy ,Mike Connell, who was rerouting vote to Tennessee in these very elections.

Larisa Alexandranova ,Velvet Revolution and epluribusmedia have EXTENSIVE info on this man in the middle methodology.

Wonder if there's a connection about tipping off the actual number of votes Kerry would challenge?
Just sayin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. Links relating to Ohio Votes and Blackwell
Current series



The GOP, GeorgeWBush.com and the line that jumped the Congressional Firewall

Who is Michael L. Connell? Part I: The Atwater School of Politics

Who is Michael L. Connell? Part II: Behind the firewall
Related stories



More email server proof for Rep. Waxman

Ken Blackwell Outsources Ohio Election Results to GOP Internet Operatives, Again
Ohio's election website still sent real-time results to GOP mirror server

epluribusmedia

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. End of the Voting Trail
Mike Connell: A Trail of Questions At the End of the Road ... Dec 24, 2008 ... Towards answering those questions, we've tried to make a comprehensive and chronological list of the reports by ePluribusMedia researchers ...
discuss.epluribusmedia.net/mike_connell_a_trail_of_questions_at_the_end_of_the_road - 58k - Cached - Similar pages
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. YOU GOTTA READ THIS ONE!!
ePluribus Media Journal Connell, Rove and the GOP Boys, Positioned for McCain? Mike Connell built the non-partisan State of Ohio Election Night Results reporting system which, ...
thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/index.php/component/finder/search?q=connell - 24k - Cached - Similar pages
More results from thejournal.epluribusmedia.net
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Gaaah! Someone make Carville go away!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Cut Carville out of the loop -- Skeletor is a cancerous tumor.
He and his trashy wife can go disappear somewhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
32. I don't like Rahm. Don't trust him...don't like him...don't know why, just a feeling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Agreed.
His choice as Obama's right hand man sent a message to grassroots...eff off. Was it intended that way by Obamo, I don't know. Maybe he is unaware of those attitudes of Rahm...I doubt it though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Same here.
I really wish Obama had picked someone else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. I have been thinking the same thing
and just crossing my fingers he doesn't blow it for obama. I hope obama knows what he is doing with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
36. Um, Mary, have you ever been to a "knitting club" meetup?
We swear worse than sailors, especially when we make a mistake. And don't get us started on our favorite sports teams. ;)

I'd invite her to a meetup, but I think we'd scare her--cussing, crazy women with pointy sticks who all are more liberal than she and her scary-looking husband are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. "And I drive down Broadway - to the Crossroads of the World..."
"... I see a scene you wouldn't see in your wildest dreams. Forty-Second Street. Broadway. Four Corners. Four people. One on each corner. All waiting for taxis. Cardinal Spellman. Jackie Kennedy. Bob Hope. President Johnson. All carrying suitcases. Taxi! Taxi! I stop in the middle of the street - the middle of Broadway and I get out of my Green Latrine and yell, "Get in. I'm a gypsy. A Gypsy cab. Get in. I'll take you where you want to go. Don't you all know each other? Get in! Get in!" -- Bananas Shaughnessy The House of Blue Leaves
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. Soap opera stuff - they're all the same clique to begin with, Matalin included.
Fuck them.

The choice of Rahm was a real gut-punch to start things off for anyone who made too much of "Change."

Are you kidding me, he should be more cautious? About what, the same hanging out with the same frat he's been doing all along?

He should be out and very far away, but what can you do?

The signals and actions are still mixed enough that I can stand it as a big improvement over Bush. The central question is, will there be justice or a cover-up for the outgoing regime? That will determine all else as far as any progressive hope goes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
42. for the life of me...
i cannot grasp who the two of them got together or why. even if he is uglier than a pig's behind and even if I need a translator to understand a word he says, he still could have done a great deal better than the freak show and Cheney colon otherwise known as Mary Matlin. blows my mind still.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
92. See post #91
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
43. Al Hunt, yes he's married to Judy Woodruff. He talks daily with Carville.
Who probably spreads the talking points they came up with on the calls with Rahm, et al

"
"Still, the line between journalism and politics is not always bright. Begala said he often cant remember the originator of any particular insight: We talk so much was this my idea that James changed, or was this Georges observation that Rahm tweaked?

Al Hunt, the Washington bureau chief for Bloomberg News, said he talks with Carville almost every day one of a roster of Washington reporters in that category. There is no parallel, he said, to a group of friends who has remained so central to the daily shaping of Washington conversation as these Clinton-era comrades."

The bureau chief for Bloomberg talks daily with Carville?

More on Al Hunt:

http://www.nndb.com/people/525/000052369 /

"Al Hunt is married to CNN newscaster Judy Woodruff. In April 1986, while the couple was eating at a Dallas restaurant with their 4-year-old son, a very pissed-off George W. Bush stormed over to their table and unloaded on Hunt: "You fucking son of a bitch. I saw what you wrote. We're not going to forget this." (Hunt's transgression was having predicted in the Wall Street Journal that Jack Kemp would win the 1988 Republican nomination instead of Vice President George H.W. Bush.)"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
44. Quite likely Washington's Dem interpretation being "hatched" on these calls.
"And in any given news cycle, it is quite likely that Washingtons prevailing political and media interpretation at least on the Democratic side is being hatched on these calls.

The process happens not by design but as the byproduct of pre-dawn badinage a smart-set take on the world that gets amplified by the prominent platforms all of them hold and by the dozens of later calls and lunches and rants that they will carry on with others throughout the day."

And Mary Matalin right in the middle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
45. All I know is, Carville is poison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Yes.
He is..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jambalaya Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
135. PET NAME
They don't call him 'ole Snakehead for nothin'.

And we ALL know,you can't pet a snake----especially a rattler.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
51. Matalin should not be hearing those calls at all.
She is so tied to the right wing, that there should be nothing at all said in front of her by any Democrat.

Matalin can't be trusted

In 2004:

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."


Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.


More stuff about her.

Her publishing company published Jerome Corsi's book, and is publishing Karl Rove's memoirs.

Once upon a timeonly a decade or two agobig time New York publishers like Simon & Schuster actually cared whether or not the nonfiction books they published contained real facts.

No more. That period ended when these publishers were absorbed by great conglomerates like CBS. Now the only thing anyone really cares about is how much money a book can make.

The latest and most dramatic evidence of this mind-set is Obama Nation, the new book by Jerome R. Corsi, just published by Threshold Editions, a division of Simon & Schuster headed by Republican hatchet-woman Mary Matalin. Corsi is the proven fraud previously most famous as the co-author of Unfit for Command, the book that libeled John Kerry so successfully four years ago.


And Rove's book:

NEW YORK (AP) GOP strategist Karl Rove has agreed to write about his years as an adviser to President Bush in a deal worth over $1.5 million with former colleague Mary Matalin's conservative imprint at Simon & Schuster, officials said Friday.

Rove, the architect of Bush's 2000 and 2004 presidential campaigns and one of the most influential political advisers of his time, signed the deal with Threshold Editions, the imprint's publisher and executive vice president Louise Burke said.

"All of us at Threshold are thrilled to publish the book from the man who had the president's ear for two terms," Burke said.


Keep her away from those phone calls.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. It's not just Matalin-it's Carville as well!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Yep....they seem to be of one mind and share everything.
I guess you are right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
53. AND (who?!1) thinks this was NOT known before?!1 n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I did not know about the daily calls with Rahm.
It matters now that he is CoS and has Obama's ear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Me either, and I find it very disturbing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. It is damn-WELL disturbing!1 n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. very much so.
Obama could be undermined that way. Wonder if he knows about those calls she is privy to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
59. Good way to feed info to the GOP, if that's your wish . . .
Carville should be finished in Democratic Party --

and anything Rahm and DLC does will move the Democratic Party to the right ---

that's what they're here for.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
60. Agreed!
When I read this story, I couldn't help but think about how this clan despised Dean as well. Dare any of them admit they were WRONG about H.D. and the 50 State Strategy, in one of their Knitting Club sessions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
61. Another reason not to be thrilled with Emmanuel,This is yet another reason why this
isn't a good appointment. Why IS he COS????????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
62. Just ran across this blog...short and to the point very bluntly
A little bit off topic but maybe not at all. After all the ones in the OP are the ones who wanted him gone...really gone. He is.

http://thepeskyfly.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-orders-homa...

Just read the blog. Wow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #62
78. Madfloridian - the link froze my computer. Can you share the gist of it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. Here you go.
"Thursday, January 08, 2009
The New Order's Homage to Dean

Following, for the record, is a transcript of tributes to, remarks about, and remarks invited of Howard Dean, the outgoing chairman of the DNC, on the occasion of President-elect Obama's presentation to the media Thursday of new chairman Tim Keane. (Observe also the photograph of Dean with his appreciative party-mates.)

The transcript begins:"

(Then there is a big blank on the page...no text no pictures because there was no homage the blogger means)



and near the bottom.

"End of transcript."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Got it. Cleverly appropriate. I am still bitter. Don't know how Obama did that to him.
Or should I say - let Rahm run with nothing but eviction for Dean.

Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. Ohhh. Sorry, I am dumb..
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #62
93. When I go to the link the pic is a white square and after "transcript" it is blank
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. Right, because there was nothing.
went right to the point. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #97
102. I realized after I posted what the point was. See post # 94- duh
Edited on Thu Jan-29-09 04:49 PM by BrklynLiberal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. No "duh" moment for you.....it took time for it to sink in.
At first it looked like a mistake on the site.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
63. i'd want to exclude all four of those people
ideally from anything related to governing this country

just one of them doesn't seem to do it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
64. Do you think Obama is aware of this? Do you think he was aware this would be the way that it is?
I believe he did. I believe he's creating a more inclusive administration.

The question is, will it be too idealistic, too naive to change the politics of the past into the politics this country needs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
65. Ugly arrangement. Lest anyone harbor illusions about
what we are dealing with -- the story about this cabal says a lot. Dem's political secrets at the mercy of Carville and Matalin (and therefore likely Cheney) still..

I hope Obama moves Rahm out at some point--maybe not until after re-election. Anyway at least this is a little more evidence of who we are dealing with.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
103. Carville had ADDED REASON to sabotage Kerry in 2004 - his wife was already a WAR CRIMINAL
and Kerry was an open government Democrat who believed in opening the government's books to the public. Kerry in the WH wouldn't have allowed Hillary2008, either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
66. One big club...comes to mind
Exclusive at that

A lot goes on behind the curtain -players yak together before they go on stage

Comes to mind also...

Perhaps I just need fruit juice

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
67. Mary's boss has been hearing everybody's phone calls
for years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
68. Hmmm.
Rahm Emmanuel and James Carville compromising a Democratic administration. Who could have predicted that? :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
69. New White House counsel is a pal of Karl Rove.



For a Power Lawyer, a New High-Wire Act

WASHINGTON During 40 years in politics, Gregory B. Craig has learned the art of the balancing act.

As a Harvard student in 1968, he was enthralled by Allard K. Lowenstein, the antiwar candidate who preached change from within. As a young foreign policy adviser to Senator Edward M. Kennedy, he showed sympathy to the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, then tromped through hot, muddy jungles to document human rights horrors they committed.

As a hotshot Washington lawyer and friend of Bill and Hillary Clinton from Yale Law School, he defended Mr. Clinton against impeachment. But in the 2008 campaign, he dumped the Clintons for Barack Obama, who reminded him, friends say, of a time when politics was about ideas, not partisanship.

Now Mr. Craigs balancing skills are being tested as never before. As the incoming White House counsel Mr. Obamas in-house lawyer he is in the thick of the most contentious debates facing the new administration, from how to shut down the prison at Guantnamo Bay, Cuba, to whether C.I.A. interrogators suspected of torture should be prosecuted.

SNIP

Yet in the time-honored way of Washington, Mr. Craig, who will quit his partnership in the upscale law firm Williams & Connolly for the $172,200-a-year White House job, has found a way to make friends with the other side. He counts Karl Rove, Mr. Bushs political guru, as a friend; Mr. Rove said Mr. Craig would serve the new president and the country with great integrity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/us/politics/17craig.h...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chichiri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
70. At first I thought you said MARLEE Matalin.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
71. Anyone sharing Democratic Party inside info
with Typhoid Mary should be isolated or fed bad information she can give to her handlers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
73. Have any of you read any of James Carville's books or the recent
bio of Rahm Emmanuel (The Thumpin').

If you read these books with an open mind, you would realize these guys are the real thing. You couldn't have two bigger true believers. Get the facts.

Any why are we bashing servants of our newly elected President and Administation not even a week out of the best hope of change in a century.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. Facts???
Why would we want to get facts? Won't they just stand in the way of a good DLC bash party with a little tinfoil hat thrown in for extra special fun? C'mon....why are you trying to spoil it?

:party: :tinfoilhat:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #73
81. How do you feel about Mary Matalin?
Do you think she should be getting all this info?

If so, then I guess this is all okay with you.

An aide to former VP Cheney is hearing phone calls with the new CoS to Obama and his buddy buddies.

Sorry, wrong on all counts.

I think Rahm, Carville and Begala have had too much say for way too long.

If Obama is aware of all this and lets it go on...he does so at his peril.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
86. I'm willing to look at the books with a semi-open
mind. Especially in Carville's case I would have to weigh believing his words against the likelihood that he shares info with Mataling. I believe his intimacy with the mother of his children trumps what he would say i a book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #73
113. but all that outrage, all that drama
it feels so good!

:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
74. Well....
You haven't liked the choice of Rahm from the first you heard of it, so I guess DU will have posts like this as long as he is COS. :sarcasm: :rant:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #74
83. How do you feel about Mary Matalin listening to the policy/friendship calls?
No, I don't like Rahm, and we stopped donations the minute we heard about the choice of him as CoS.

But this is a fair post with good points.

Rahm does NOT respect the grassroots nor did he respect the man who helped get the party back on track.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
100. So what? She's the man's WIFE for chrissakes...
And I bet he listens to her conversations. They probably discuss all kinds of stuff in bed. I would if I were him. And he married her knowing full well who and what he was marrying. Same thing to her. Obviously their love transcends BOTH their politics.

Are you saying YOUR politics are more important than YOUR husband? So if your husband suddenly decided he was a Libertarian or Republican would you divorce him? Because if the answer to those two questions is yes, then... well I better not say it. :puke:

No, and Rahm doesn't respect the grassroots. Because, I bet from his perspective, too many of the grassroots throw tantrums when they don't get exactly what they want. And he probably says "Fuck them all, I work in this town, I know how things and people operate here, and they don't, so fuck 'em and feed 'em fish heads."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. What an insulting post
Bye now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #101
124. No more insulting than the journals that you provide
at least three days a week that bash every Democrat you can find, because they weren't supportive of your candidate in 2004.

Not more insulting than the spewing of hate for every person that served in the Clinton administration that you serve up here several times a week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
76. I believe it has all the marks of deception and betrayal of the American people.
Edited on Thu Jan-29-09 10:00 AM by higher class
We LOST ground because of these people. We lost our chance to have Al Gore as President for the last eight years.

I've been trying to turn my head around about Obama choosing Rahm. This news is very bad for me. It makes me go back to worrying when I was making progress.

I doubt if Matalin will change any of her stripes.

She knows the answer to 9-11. Take it from there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
84. I can't tell you how much I hate it that Obama has
put his hand in this snake nest amd pulled one out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #84
114. It has really bothered me as well.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
89. I have always said I would NEVER trust anyone who slept with Mary Matalin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
99. All looks fine to me
Seems like people are still bellyaching over all the former Clintonistas sprinkled throughout Obama's administration.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
104. The NSA via wiretaps has heard them all, too. Matalin gave them plausible deniability.
Edited on Thu Jan-29-09 06:20 PM by McCamy Taylor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
109. The President needs to make his concerns known to Rahm, IMO. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
111. This is much to do about nothing. Politico reference on gossip?
He talks to her, they talk to them, people from this group should not talk to people from that group. Danger! Danger! Matalin describes conversations this way or that way. People from obama's team are talking to Mary Matalin!

Your evidence for all this back-channel talks is a opinion-hearsay piece by politico. What, this is some high level influential stuff that threatens a liberal agenda? Man, we are taking the bait on this bullshit.

Look folks, this is the type of hype-poli-theater journo-bs that is specifically designed to get us to distracted.
How much time can we afford on the drama? I mean, are there pressing issues, or are we happy with the condition of our condition? They are going to pump out this distraction material like misleading corporate quarterly reports and it is our job to criticize Obama on substantive issues, not play into there hands.

This is not news. This is not important. This is speculative association bill ayers stuff. Mary Matalin got her masters degree in poli-sci from Western Illinois University. My dad meet her! My dads academic peers taught her! Almost every teacher she had was a raving liberal, some extreme radicals! But she has always, then and now, been an ideological conservative! Holy cow, when people interact, those interactions don't automatically change peoples minds. In fact, there does not seem to be much of a long term effect either. Especially when people are over the age of 30, bc research studies have shown that beliefs tend to crystallize about that age.

Wow, I guess all this talkin around, all free-like is a big-time threat to our liberal platform! I mean, Matalin might hear something important and totally stab us in the back. I mean, its a real concern. Look at Obama's organizational political model. Its so sloppy. He's just so naive.

Someone give me some theme music, Im drowning in the soap-opera.

This is just a guess. I mean, I'm probably wrong, I study this stuff all day-every-day, but Im slow, so do assume that my years of experience and countless hours in-field work/academic study means anything. But maybe, just maybe, Obama is tricking the repuks! Maybe, just maybe, he is "reaching out" and "blah blah-bi-parto-blah" uhh "posty-posta-bi-parto-racial" rhetoric is cover! Maybe, he, like us, knows that these ideological conservatives are so wedded to their dogmatic worldview that they will never abandon it. Even as the ship sinks. So, he presents himself as the uniter, knowing damn well that his extended hand will be slapped, giving him the political capital to enact legislation. This is exactly how he beat McCain. Pound home the idea that we have to work together. Say it over and over and over again. Then, when people won't work with you, they look petty, weak, misguided, and irresponsible. Maybe, he does not really want repuks on board, but wants to create the perception that he is trying his ass off to bridge the bi-partisan gap. That way, when they do what they do, which is obstruct, they will look so "pre-financial crisis". I mean, don't you know, its common political wisdom, that we all want the president to succeed.


Ready for the political prediction of the year. This year, we will, as with LBJ's manipulation of JFK's death, pass the most progressive set of legislation since that session. The repuks will almost all vote against it, some blue dogs will too. The legislation will effect large pops, in practical, everyday ways and be very popular. And more conservo/center-minded pollies will lose their seats. Oh yes, 2010 will be another e-season for the liberally/radically minded. And 12, and 14, and will peak at 16-18. 30 year cycles folks, guess who is beginning a 30 year cycle of power consolidation.


Keep your eyes on the prize. Understand the timing of political climate and the practical winds that blow. Because, when the time is right, we must push, with all our force, to breach the limits of conventional liberal thinking and maximize our time to ensure long lasting effect. We must not waste our capital on bs. We must work for legislation like Welfare policies, Workers conditions and organized representation, civil rights, environmental protections, and economic equality. All long lasting platforms that have progressed over time since their inception, sometimes quickly, sometimes painfully slowly, sometimes backward a few steps before regaining forward progress. But, they endure, they are our legacy. One that at times we have to protect, one, that at times push forward, dragging half of the country kicking and screaming behind us. See, the problem with time, is that it keeps moving forward, no matter how hard conservo's attempt to stop it. And during this process, they're attempts to impede progress dissolve. Their long-lasting legacy is embedded in their ability to slow us down, not in having anything to show for their efforts. Think about it, conserving the way of life we have today is a losing battle, each generation will do it a little different than the one before.

Let them hang themselves, help them find rope, give them as much as they will take.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #111
112. Did you notice? I did not criticize Obama.
I do not think those 4 mean him well.

I think they are more concerned about their own image than about worrying what stuff Mary M. is passing on now.

Carville and wife have a history of gossip, some of it dangerous and harmful....like they did to Kerry over the Ohio recount.

I trust Obama far more than I trust those four. I don't know why he chose Rahm, but from a point of view of the average person in the party it is not a wise choice.

Rahm is not progressive. He is just not. He was picked by Obama, I don't know why. His pick sent a message to those who supported Dean that they were not needed anymore. Cut out one group...others soon lose interest.

Your comments about theater hype I find offensive. I consider someone who yells f*** you to everyone and thinks it funny...who jumps on tables..to be far more theater than my post.

I resent the implications in your post, and I think you will be very tired before it's over. Cause I am not the only one.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #112
116. you are taking this personally, and it is misguided.
Im confused by most of your assertions and believe you make too many unsupported dogmatic claims.

Rahm is not progressive. He is just not.
I do not think those 4 mean him well.
I think they are more concerned about their own image than about worrying what stuff Mary M. is passing on now.

those are just a couple examples in your most recent response

I don't get tired, thanks for the healthcare concern, tho.

On a personal note. Don't take the comments here too seriously, you don't know me, maybe Im just a dumb ass, right? You tend to become agitated quickly when others disagree with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #116
117. We have four years of Rahm, Carville, Begala...
Four years of them.

We are as a party right back to where we were pre Iraq invasion and occupation.

Obama is the difference, but I think his hands will be tied by these guys in many ways.

On a personal note, you are late with your concerns. Others are here long before you making sure I worry about my mental health.

There is nothing confusing about my post. I was very clear.

Rahm is undermining our president by having phone calls that a news anchor and a former aide to Cheney can listen to.

When someone starts the personal health thingy, I know who is coming on the post next. I simply update my list and say good bye.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #117
118. Your post are very opinionated and you make mutiple statements
that are asserted as fact with no support or reference. You state things that you could not possible know and present politics in the most simplistic of terms, its getting a little silly. You recently commented that my post -implied you were not aware of some issues of reframing and blocking. It is not my post that implies these things, it is the dogmatic presentation of politics in your post.

I mean come on:

"Rahm is undermining our president by having phone calls that a news anchor and a former aide to Cheney can listen to." Really, is that whats going on here. Is it possible that they have a plan and are tricking the repuks? You think obama is going to let Rahm undermine him? Just let him walk all over him?

Obama-you so silly-let us tell you how its done. I heard this same bs during the election. I loved hearing white people telling obama how to get elected president. Now, we are in the business of telling him to watch out about those he holds close. How rich is that.

History will most likely show that your concerns are misguided and that he is tricking almost everyone. From what I have seen of him, he does not reveal his cards. We have gambled. Its not that Im not nervous about some things, but this concern is a strangely unsubstantiated.

Of the two weeks in office. Is there one single legislative, exec order, other official act that you can realistically argue is cause for concern. I mean-your treating the situation as if we are operating in normal times. He's not bush, and won't be pushed around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #118
119. In defense of Madflo, she did post "links" to her assertions
and Begala and Emmanuel "admit" the phone calls and the Carville/ Kerry incident is not "gossip" but well documented by people in attendance.

OTOH, you have posted absolutely nothing to substantiate your claims that Obama is "tricking" the GOP, as well as Carville, Emmanuel , Matlin and Begala.

And I would have to question why it would be necessary for Obama to "trick" his own COC? And if you think Emmanuel is going to be used to trick the others, well, that sounds a bit silly to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. Oh, my, thank you., saracat
Thanks for clarifying what I can no longer see, saracat.

"tricking" the GOP?

I agree with you. Obama either is totally aware of Rahm's involving a former Cheney aide in phone calls, a former aide who hangs out with Rush Limbaugh...or he is not aware. And he should be aware.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #119
122. I am refering to the assertions that occur in our debates,
not just her post. And, her post still include lots of opinions that are unsupported. Those opinions are stated as fact. Those opinions are attempts to brush broad strokes over very complex issues. Statements like, Rahm is not a liberal, or he does this or he does that all the time are weak. Its also a statement that can't really be supported very well.

Second, I never asserted that it is obama goal to trick his own COC. I believe, it is my stated opinion that he is playing the repuks for fools (tricking them and in the process also tricking some of us), and it has been quite effective. Effective, if you look at what legislative accomplishments he has in 2 weeks. My argument is that it is likely that obama is attempting to appear to be more bi-parta than he really is so as to blunt the gop talking points that we all know are coming and are beginning to see coming on stronger. Blunting them is important. The media narrative is important. The media largely shapes public opinion. For an example of exactly where I am coming from read

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Third, the support for my claims that this is a political tactic more than evidence of "caving" or "being surrounded by untrustworthy people" is becoming more and more evident every night. But, I don't need to link to evidence to support my opinion, because, it is my opinion. Additionally, it is the opinion that I am arriving at based upon what is occurring, based upon the election and legislative accomplishments of his administration.

Fourth, I like that fact that you have entered the debated, but get a little background on the situation first. Everything me and Madflo have debated is public and easily searchable. This dialogue is an extension of a fundamental disagreement that we have regarding his rhetoric and now, "those he keeps close". Before this, Madflo was arguing that his rhetoric as evidence of whether or not he was going to cave on issues, that argument, has morphed to whether those he keeps around him will undermine our efforts. I don't believe that their is evidence or support for the sense of alarm that characterizes her posted. Additionally, their are substantive issues to criticize obama on, even in his first two weeks, we should be spending our time on those issues and not getting distracted. In my opinion, this is a distraction. One such issue, is his 180 increase for addressing pay injustice and discrimination. I believe it to be highly symbolic and not nearly enough, especially as he postures next to a women who found out about her own pay discrimination 22 years after the fact. Why the fuck are we even discussing a cap or time limit? That is a substantive issue, one that effects minorities,immigrants, and the poor.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. Not to get into the merits of this argument ,because you state it as merely an opinion,
and I agree that you are entitled to have your "opinion" but it seems that you feel you can state such an opinion without substantiation yet seem to deny Madflo the right to do so even though she has provided substantiation on which to base her opinion.

There is considerably more evidence on which to base Madflo's assertions, including the admission by the principals themselves of the continuance of information exchange, than there is of your claim that Obama is "fooling" the GOP with his bipartisanship.

I do agree with you about the more substantive issues to be debated as in the instance of "pay injustice". I am equally incensed at the issue of contraception being employed as a political tactic.Much has been occurring that is all flash and no substance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. Really, what is the evidence?
"Much has been occurring that is all flash and no substance." These are the statements, that are opinion, but presented as well established fact, that are problematic. Most of obama' legislative accomplishments are not flash.

To state that much is flash must be accompanied by a break down that reveals that a majority of bills or exec orders are flash. He has undoubtedly addressed, in the first week, exactly what he clearly stated that he would address in the exact manor. He never made any public statements as to addressing pay equality issues in his first week, but did. Additionally, there is no proof that he is done with it.

But come on, 16 mo. plan to withdrawl, hold on bushes last minute bs, gitmo 1 year plan, stimulus of over 800 billion that will most likely be approved by mid-feb (with long-term goodies, read the bill), reinstate support for mexico family planning funding, reasonably quick confirmations, etc. Thats not flash. He's been the prez for 11 days, he was effecting the policy debate and legislative issues before his official role as prez. This has not been a weak start.

Yes, we need more on the contraceptive issue, yes there has been some poli-theater surrounding it. Basically, the repuks were using its presence in the stimulus to undermine debate. He struck it to take those talking points away and increase the perception of bi-parto prezing. There is no evidence that he is done with it, in fact, it is likely that it will come us as a separate bill and be stronger than the provision addressed in the stimulus.

Madflo is entitled to the ever evolving opinion. I have never ask this poster to "stand down" and would rarely do so. My criticism is my opinion on this posters opinions, not an attempt to deny the poster of their right to express an opinion. I think they are weak, misguided, and simplistic. Thats it. Its not really that big of a deal. Don't worry, people never listen to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #126
128.  I said i wasn't gonna argue the merits but I stand by my statements. Check out the Gitmo
legislation . Holes you can drive a truck through. All that glitters and all that. Whatever. And then there is the issue with lobbyists but we move on. The end goal is what counts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mentalslavery Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #128
139. Thats some GWB logic. Not going to argue the merits or points
but I stand by statements. Come on saracat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. Specifically, Carville has morphed into a bitter "piece of work."
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #112
125. "I did not criticize Obama".
That's the most laughable statement that I've read on DU.

Every other OP that you make is designed to criticize Obama. Sometimes you manage to fool the reader with your headlines.

But if one reads through it, it's soon apparent that it's another "Bash Clinton, link Obama to Clinton, bash Obama" diatribe.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. You must not be well acquainted with Madflo. She was not a Clinton supporter.
AFAIK, she always supported Obama.Most folks identify her by her unshakable loyalty to Howard Dean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #129
136. I am well aware that Madflorida was not a Clinton supporter.
As far as I can tell, the Democratic primaries ended in early summer.

And yet, we're here in January, with a new Democratic administration and Madflorida is still dredging up stuff from the past with which to bash the Clintons. And now it's not only the Clintons, but Obama for his relationship with anyone associated with the Clintons.

Anyone who's read anything by Madflorida is aware that she claims to have been a Dean supporter. I was a Dean supporter, but I'm not quite sure why having respected Howard Dean means that one cannot support the current Democratic administration.

Madfloridian's alleged support of Obama seems to have been only a cover for her desire to spend as much time as possible bashing the Clintons for their non-support of Howard Dean. As soon as the November election had passed, she started in on Obama with the same ferocity that she had allotted to everything Clintonian.

As one who supported both Dean and Obama, I find the constant divisiveness among Democrats that Madflorida tries to stir up distasteful.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
115. They're all still wiretapped. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
127. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 29th 2017, 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC