Scientology violates the most fundamental of human rights.

[originalpckelly]

You may think I'm a douchebag, in fact I'd bet on it, but you get to think that about me without me knowing. You have privacy of thought. What you think in your own mind is your business, so long as it does not go out into the world in any way.

Scientology's most basic practices, auditing with E-meters (which are primitive lie detectors enhanced with advanced questioning techniques to improve their accuracy) and sechecks (auditing sessions designed to ask extremely probing questions about illegal or taboo activities) are invasive and inhuman practices that violate the fundamental human right of privacy of thought.

It's like wiretapping someone's mind, and this "church" does that. Other confessional activities in other organizations, such as the Catholic Church, involve very generalized questions*, the answers to which are not stored in a manila folder to be used later.

Scientology maintains records of the confessional (or auditing session), the confessional is not anonymous or nearly anonymous as in other organizations. In other organizations, aside from intelligence services, the confessor is not hooked up to a lie detector.

It is obvious on its face that private information gathered in a regular auditing session or a Sec Check is easily capable of being used to blackmail someone.

No one's mind should be so open like that, at the very least without some kind of lawful authorization (like a warrant or a subpoena), and perhaps even never.

*Sorry about not being clearer, what I mean by "generalized questions" is the prompt to confess and the part about being sincerely sorry for the sins.

[cliffordu]

1. Their little meters don't do shit except separate money from idiots and

hollywood types with too much money.

Some people just need to be told what to do and seek that out no matter what the price.

[originalpckelly]

4. That's simply not true, the E-meter is a skin galvonometer...

and measures the resistance of a small electric current which is run through the human body, when one holds the electrodes (or cans.)

This is similar in many ways to one of many measurements used in the polygraph.

[cliffordu]

22. Do you REALLY think the bottom feeders and droolers monitoring those "tests"

can discern one fucking thing????

Do you really think those idiotic "galvonometers" they build are worth a shit?


man oh, man.

[originalpckelly]

29. Do not underestimate the dark side of the force.

They're using tactics used by the CIA. They teach someone how to do something, then hook them up to a lie detector to make sure they understand it, if they say they do, and the lie detector says otherwise, they can keep redoing it, until the person gets it.

It's powerful method of wrote learning.

And the people who join Scientology are not idiots, many mean well and think they're doing something good. They're obviously finding ways to continue to recruit people.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Except , it's voluntary

[originalpckelly]

5. Indeed it is, just like it was voluntary for Jim Jones' followers to become members of his cult.

The mind control that's exerted eventually alters one's ability to form individual opinions.

[anigbrowl]

13. Wouldn't advise anyone to join for that reason

But there's a limit to what you can do to save dumb people from themselves. If Scientology doesn't set someone's BS meter off they're so gullible that they're just as likely to get swept up by the holy rollers or a get-rich-quick scheme.

[originalpckelly]

16. No one needs to be gullible...

I think now that it's out there in the press, people will be more suspicious, but before it wasn't as clear. Remember always, that young people may not have heard about past controversies, and may get themselves into situations where their minds can be warped easily.

[anigbrowl]

31. Yeah they do

I ran into the scientologists completely cold (ie uninformed) back in 1988 when I was 18. 45 minutes and a free personality test later, I know they were running a scam.

[originalpckelly]

32. Perhaps you're right, but should gullibility be an excuse to abuse someone?

I think not, and I do dispute the gullibility factor, you may have run into a bad practitioner of the dark arts.

[EFerrari]

7. Up to a point. Because the real damage "auditing" does

(and Scientology "tech" for that matter) is to erode your boundaries and so, your ability to make good decisions for yourself.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. So much is out there, ready to take over your mind. This is just

one of a million different schemes to control you & take your money & time.

[MADem]

3. I think that kid would still be alive if his uncle had raised him.

This article is fascinating:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/latest-news/celebs/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-travolta-s-son-could-he-have-been-saved-115875-21013277/

[originalpckelly]

6. This will still be an issue, even if their kid had been raised by someone else.

This is a more generalized post about Scientology in general since it's become more mentioned here.

[Donnachaidh]

8. you've got your information about the Catholic practice of confession

Questions AREN'T asked, information is given voluntarily. No one is dragged into a room and held under a spotlight.

But hey, what's a little twisting of facts when you have a point to make. :sarcasm: :eyes:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

9. Imagine this.........

There was something really intelligent written here, but the phrase "pearls before swine" kept ringing through my head, so I came back here and deleted it.

I feel better.

:)

[originalpckelly]

12. I'm not a fan of any religion, but Scientology is not merely a religion...

it's a criminal fraud.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. Not legally, no.

It's legitimate in the eyes of the law.

How is it any more criminal than Roman Catholicism or Judaism or any branch of the Protestant faith or Jimmie Swaggert or Oral Roberts or Ernest Angley or John Hagee or Rex Humbard?

[originalpckelly]

19. Try Doc Wardheim's Miracle Hair Restoration Tonic...

It's a fraud in that sense, and while I can't do it tonight, I could probably put together a case based upon the United States Code that would demonstrate Scientology is a criminal fraud.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. Any more fraudulent than

feeding flour and water wafers to people and telling them it's the body of a dead guy and it will complete the cleansing of their sins?

I would urge you to put that case together. In fact, I'd help you with it. I've already worked on a civil case against the old L. Ron folks, and made a lot of money doing it. I got some stories, boy, do I got some stories!

But, the simple fact is that people are allowed to worship any way they see fit, and it's their choice.

That's the American way.

[originalpckelly]

35. Not really.

:P

Bullshit is bullshit whomever it comes from.

And I bet you do have a lot of money now, because they always buy off those who fight them, after harassing them to death.

What needs to be done is go from the bottom up, most attempts seem to be in violation of common tactics of taking down organized crime.

[Warpy]

21. While hideous to children (and I was one of them)

it doesn't invade one's innermost thoughts under the guise of amateur psychiatry.

I can tell you that most Catholics sitting through mass and the sermon are not thinking pleasant thoughts about heaven while they do it.

Most of them are hypocrites to one extent or another, picking and choosing among church dogma for the parts that fit with their lives. Something like 2/3 use birth control and quite a few have had abortions when they've needed them. If you think those things are mentioned in confession, you're sadly mistaken. While they believe in Jesus, they also know some things are just none of the priest's business.

Scientology won't allow you to be a hypocrite and do lip service just to get the benefits of community. You have to bare your soul to them as a matter of "church" doctrine and hand them enough material for blackmail to last them a thousand years should they decide you didn't cough up enough money for the privilege.

There is no real parallel for the emotional abuse and the threat for exposure that ex Scientologists face from people who have probed every aspect of their lives. It's a vicious system to get caught in just because you're unhappy and want to get happier.

I would love to see them sued for practicing psychiatry without a license. If people want to join a goofy cult, they should be allowed. However, they should not have to face damage to do so.

[mitchum]

11. Yes,it is an inalienable right to go to Radio Shack and pick up the components for an E-meter

[originalpckelly]

14. What in the fuck are you talking about?

:shrug:

[mitchum]

17. I agree with your post that they are an oppressive cult...

I was just having some fun with their demands that cultists spend thousands on an E-meter when a child can buld one with $25-30 worth of parts. I built one when I was 9...and I was no wiz :)

[originalpckelly]

18. OK, it just didn't make sense.

It was kind of a weird off on a tangent thing to say! :P

[Ian David]

20. Yes, but they volunteer.

If they were blackmailing people, SOMEONE would have come forward by now to blow he whistle.

Perhaps they have and I missed it.

$cientology isn't high on my radar screen lately.

I rank them somewhere between lightning and plane crashes on the list of things I worry about.

[originalpckelly]

24. Actually, someone blew the whistle back in the 80s...

I know in this set of videos, that there are numerous claims that auditing folders were used to cull information on former members who'd decided to leave and speak out.

You should care more, because you never know if someone you care about and love will join, and Scientology often forces members to break ties with people who try to get them to leave.

It's also a threat to the rule of law to have an organization which flagrantly violates even the most basic of laws (like firecodes) to more complicated laws dealing with personal freedom/etc. Not much can be done from the perspective of government, because the organization has a history of basically personally destroying those who investigate them. It's an awe inspiring thing to think that the mafia could be successfully dismantled, but Scientology is still kicking.

[Ian David]

36. All very good points. Thanks! n/t

[Oregone]

23. Who really, really fucking gives a fucking shit?

How many people has scientology killed? How many masacares? They are small, microscoptic potatoes compared to the Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus (many of which are quenching their thirst for blood currently). Find something a bit more constructive to do with your time. A new level of douchebaggery has been reached. Go wash your gorilla mask, Anonymous.

[chucktaylor]

25. I don't recall any questions in the confessional, other than "are you sorry for your sins."

[originalpckelly]

26. That's what I mean, that and the basic prompt to start confessing.

That seems to not be clear, I'm going to fix that.

[chucktaylor]

27. You are right. Thanks.

[VPStoltz]

28. Of course they violate human rights - the cult was founded by aliens.

[originalpckelly]

30. BAD!

:spank:

Go to your room, you're on the Rehabilitation Project Force!

[anigbrowl]

33. I have no excuse for posting this

I just felt like making fun of the Scientologists.