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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:53 PM
Original message
There are some people in the outside world who don't seem to like the posts I make on this site.
Throughout my time at DU I have been very appreciative of the support this community has given me. Throughout my time here I have never been one to shy away from taking a controversial stand, and more often than not I have found that people here have been very respectful of me even if they disagree with what I have to say sometimes. Since joining DU the community has often been so supportive of me that not only have many of my posts made it to the top of the greatest page, but I have found that people have been sending them out in e-mails to their friends or linking to them on their own blogs. As a result of the support the DU community has given me some of my writings here have reached thousands of people, and you have all shown me that I can have a voice in this world of ours.

While I am very grateful for the voice that DU has given me, that voice has not come without consequences. There are some people out there who do not like what I have had to say in some of my posts, and some of those people have been trying to smear my name on other websites. Last year I even found a site which posted a threat of violence against me in response to a post I had written on DU, and I have found multiple cases in which other blogs have accused me of lying about my status as a former right-winger who converted.

I can assure you all that I am not making any part of my story up, I was a dues paying member of the Libertarian Party from 1997 to 2001 and I even attended two of their state conventions. No one has ever provided a shred of evidence to dispute these facts, they simply post their doubts online and don’t bother to provide any proof to back up their allegations against me.

The truth is that the story of my conversion is threatening to a lot of people not only on the right-wing, but also to those in the Democratic Party who think we should be reaching across the aisle and working in bi-partisan fashion. I have made it very clear that the DLC’s strategy of triangulation and finding a so-called “common ground” only strengthened my right-wing beliefs because as they moved closer to my position they only reinforced my belief that my views were right as even the opposition was moving towards them. What got me to change was not those who tried to pander to me, it was those who stood up for what they believed in and told me that I was wrong. Once I was exposed to the damage that right-wing policies have had on our nation I could no longer be a right-winger and I moved to the left very quickly.

When I first became a progressive I didn’t discuss the fact that I was a former right-winger with many of my new progressive friends because I was worried they would be suspicious of me if they knew about some of the extreme positions I had held in the past. I knew I had changed, but I was worried that I would not be able to convince them that I had changed so I just kept quiet about it. After a few years of activism in the progressive community however I decided that it was time to speak out openly about the changes I had went through. While I was nervous about coming forward, I was floored by the positive response I received from my progressive friends when I did. I received a great deal of positive support, but the more supporters I had the more others started to view me as a threat and it was not too long after I spoke out that I began seeing the first smears being made against me.

Now let me be clear to all those who attempt to smear me; you are not going to shut me up you are only going to make me louder. Anyone who posts smears about me on their blogs or anywhere else can expect that I will be standing up for myself, and if they are going to make false accusations about me or engage in character assassination then they can expect that I am going to fight back.

The latest attempt to smear me comes from a supposedly progressive blog called the Progressive Daily Beacon. The administrator of the site points to a recent post I made here on Democratic Underground which related to my past conversion from the right-wing, and gives my viewpoint on why Obama’s decision to have Rick Warren speak at the inauguration will do nothing to bring the right-wing to Obama’s side.

The content of that post is hardly relevant to anything the administrator of the Progressive Daily Beacon wrote about me though, because rather than addressing the actual content of my post he chose to engage in personal attacks on me by comparing me to Fox News, George Bush, and the Israeli Defense Forces. Yes, because I wrote a post about how progressives should stand up for their principles rather than compromise with the right-wing that apparently makes me like George Bush. Just as a reminder George Bush is responsible for the deaths of a million Iraqis, the shredding of the Constitution, torture, the collapse of the US economy, and countless other disastrous and often criminal policies. Yet somehow I am like him. Why? Because I apparently am unwilling to listen to the other side.

Now of course I was once on the other side so I know their viewpoints pretty damn well, and considering I still spend a fair amount of time keeping up on right-wing ideals I know my enemy. I am more than willing to engage in dialogue even with those on the extreme right, but what I am not willing to do is I am not willing to cave in on my principles.

If the Administrator of the Progressive Daily Beacon thought I needed to engage in more dialog with people I disagree with however I thought he would be more than willing to engage in dialog with people he disagrees with and talk about the vile things he publicly posted on his blog about me. I attempted to contact him and his response was that he stood by his comparison of me with George Bush but that I should not worry about it because he had made the post a week earlier and I did not say something to him soon enough. Of course the smears he wrote about me are still on his site so the fact that it took me a week before I noticed them hardly seems relevant. I told him that telling me to move on was not an adequate response, and if he wanted me to engage in dialog with people like Rick Warren then he should engage in dialog with me as well. I promised him I would be polite if he was willing to talk to me, and I intended on keeping that promise. Instead of engaging in dialog however he made numerous personal attacks against me before deleting all my attempts at responding to his smears. He told me I needed mental health counseling, and accused me of criminal activities such as “stalking” simply for not letting him off the hook when he told me to move on (for the record all of our interactions were made over a period of only a few hours through comments on his website all of which he has now deleted. Spending an evening defending yourself on a blog that is personally attacking you is most certainly not stalking yet he chose to accuse me of a crime). He told me that I had a chance to make my point when I made the post here on DU a couple weeks ago, and he had his chance to make his point when he attacked me through his website and that the “dialog” was now over. I told him that if his definition of dialog is publicly smearing someone and then deleting any response they try to make from the website, then I would have to defend myself elsewhere. He told me that if I were to write about him in any other forum that I was using “crazy, insane and emotionally distressing” Rovian tactics. Apparently it is OK for him to use his website to attack me, but in his world if I respond to his attacks I am no different than a mentally deranged Karl Rove. I gave him a chance to remove the smears from his website, but he chose not to do so and now I am keeping my promise to him and defending myself in another forum.

Here is the thing, people can fling accusations at me, and they can try to smear my name all they want, but when they attack they better be prepared because I am going to fight back. I am more than willing to engage in dialogue with those who disagree with me, and I don’t mind if people post blogs that express disagreement with me. There is a difference between a disagreement and a smear however, and I will not let those who publicly smear me off the hook. The first piece of hate mail I ever received I wore with a badge of honor, the first couple blogs I found posted which attempted to smear me I ignored, but when I keep finding more blogs which smear me without giving me a chance to respond I know that I can’t ignore this any longer. I may not have taken the threat of violence that I received last year after posting something on this site about my conversion from the right-wing too seriously at the time, but as I keep finding more venom posted about me on other sites I am going to start taking things a lot more seriously now. Taking things seriously does not mean that I am going to back down however, it means that I am going to get louder and if it pisses off the people who post these blogs about me even more then good. I am not going to allow these people to intimidate me, I am going to stand up to them and make sure they know that I am not going to accept their crap.

I need to ask a favor of all the DUers who have supported me over the past couple of years, all I ask is that if you ever find a blog which attempts to smear my name please let me know about it. I have been very grateful for all the support people here have given me in the past, and I will be even more grateful for your support in the future.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Help me understand, please...
DO you mean that these other websites have established your real identity and are smearing you by name? That would seem quite a bit more consequential than if they just selected your anonymous screen name, 'MN against Bush' to post things... For all I know my own screen name is the subject of ridicule on other (RW) sites... I really could care less and wouldn't bother to even google as I don't see what the signficance would be..:shrug:

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No they are using my screen name.
The thing is that it is really not that hard to figure out what my real name is, I have posted enough information here that my identity would not be too difficult for someone to figure out. I don't care if people know my real identity because I have nothing to hide, but I really don't see a huge distinction between using my screen name and using my real name because either way they are smearing me.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. It isn't "smearing you" to link to a post of yours and write why they disagree with you.
Grow a sack, a spine, or a thicker skin. I don't care which.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Disagreeing is not a smear, ad hominem attacks and false accusations are.
If these posts were mere disagreements I would have no problem with them, they go beyond that.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Those are all par for the course for blogosphere bickering.
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 05:36 PM by Occam Bandage
"You sound like a right-winger" is one of the most common insults in the lefty blogosphere. The guy expands on that by saying you were actually once a right winger? If it's true, just feel honored that someone you've never met cares enough about you to remember that. If it isn't, then he's got you confused with someone else, so why bother?

He's not trashing your personal life. He's not stalking you. He's not posting pictures of you. He's not harassing you. He's attacking things you wrote on an open political opinion board. I think you're overreacting just a wee little bit.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. He put the word "right-winger" in quotes to suggest I was lying about it.
That is not "caring enough about me to remember me". He is harrassing me by posting lies about me on the internet, and believe me you haven't seen everything he has written. Many of the worst things he wrote were in the comments threads, the one good thing about him deleting my comments were that the accusations of criminal acts he made against me are now gone as well.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Always the same people.
Always.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't let these people eat your time.
:hi:
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. I so agree
When I was just a newbie on the Internet scene, Mr Pip (who had been doing this sort of thing for a long time...even before the Internet, with the local BBS's and modems and a room full of computers) told me not to let these people get to me.

I could never understand how he did it...or how he could NOT let a bunch of anonymous (for the most part) yahoos get to him. I mean, I would actually stay up nights trying to think of snappy-yet-witty comebacks to the people who were being...in a word....assholes.

I'm angry now at all the time and energy I wasted on those fools.

My family wanted and deserved my time and energy much more than those idiots did.

Now when I shut down my computer at night, I sweep the morons out of my head. It feels so much better. :)
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. This isn't "Progressive Underground", whatever some here may think.
It's "Democratic Underground".

I'm a relatively conservative, pragmatic Democrat and many here have taken issue with my views. So what?

Personally, I believe the extremes on EITHER end are equally ridiculous but if you want to fight 'em, go for it!
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I am not talking about DU, I am talking about other sites.
Yes there have been a few DUers that have said some nasty things to me, but at least I am able to respond to them here. They delete all my comments at the other sites.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. In that case, I'd agree with the posts above. Don't waste your time.
You'll go nuts trying to fight all of the idiots.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. What was that they say about being in the middle of the road
What you find in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe or dead skunk...:shrug: Is there anything a "moderate" is passionate about?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Moderation is not apathy.
I want universal access to health care. I feel strongly about it. I don't want the current system, but neither do I want single-payer.

The goal isn't one either extreme end of the discussion, but that doesn't make me any less passionate about it.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh, you know your former fellow libertarians
are all looking at each other sideways and hissing "Could it be YOU?"

Actually, you can threaten anything about a person except his lunatic belief system and get away with it, and the sillier the belief, the more threatened he'll feel whenever anyone challenges it.

I don't often read Libertarian sites (if I want to confront insanity, I'll go visit extended family), but should I happen to see anything threatening, I'll let you know.

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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Reaching out" is centrist vote pandering political babble
Obama is "reaching out" to gay-hating black (D)s who voted in majority for Prop 8 and who helped get him elected, yet another reality most people are too stupid or scared to even grasp. The U.S. is a fascist country that panders to the elite, racists, torturers, war mongers and all their human rights abuses and our "leaders" always frame it as "reaching out" or "reaching across the isle" or some other bullshit phase invented for propagandized and sloganeering American Idol watchers who only care about their money and their closed and bigoted little philistine existences.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Frankly, I think the other guy seems more reasonable here.
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 05:30 PM by Occam Bandage
DU is a public forum. People elsewhere are certainly allowed to talk about posts here without notifying their authors, much as we can talk about Sean Hannity without letting him know.

You said (paraphrased) "if we want to be successful in politics, we must not compromise with the dirtbags on the other side of the aisle." He said (paraphrased), "Idiot, that's how the wingnuts acted towards us and they got their asses kicked because of it." (I think his post is largely correct, and agree with his assessment that yours sounds an awful lot like a left-wing version of the right-wing machine)

You then got in his face, and started hammering him for talking about you. He said "back off, you're nuts." You two bickered for a while. He gave up and deleted the whole ridiculous affair. You then posted an enormous, ridiculous screed about how wronged you were in that someone disagreed with you on the internets.

You want to play Internet Tough Guy on this post, too? Go right ahead. Be sure to tell me how you're "going to stand up to me" or some shit. You're oversensitive. If you want to puff out your chest and roar, don't weep innocently when someone pokes at you.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. While I strongly disagree with you, I at least have the opportunity to respond here.
You know I think you are completely wrong, but I am at least able to give a response to you. When someone posts something on their own blog and then deletes my response, that is a bit more of a problem. When the guy's entire point essentially that I am like George Bush because he doesn't think that I can listen to other opinions and then he refuses to engage in any sort of dialogue with me it undermines his argument greatly.

I told him that he can post all he wants about me, but I have the right to fight back when he does.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. It's his blog. You don't have a "right" to post on it if he
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 08:41 PM by tblue37
decides not to let you.

I have ten public websites and about 5,000,000 readers worldwide. Most of the comments I get in my guestbooks are positive, but some are not, and a few are dowright nasty. I don't delete any unless they are just obscenities, but if I wanted to delete every single one that disagreed with me, I could, because they don't have any "right" to post on my sites.

You really should just let it go. Otherwise it will drive you nuts.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dude.
Be happy people are giving you credit for what you've written--whether they agree or not.

This is the internets, I receive very little credit for most of the crap I've written.

But, it brings a smile to my face every time I see someone repeat it!

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I am happy about that don't get me wrong.
I have seen some posts from people who disagree with me that have made me happy to read. I am not saying every negative blog post about what I have written is wrong, when people try and smear me however that is what I am standing up to.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Excuse my misunderstand then. n/t
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't see much "smearing"
The guy disagrees with you. Oh sure, he called you a nutball or some such but beyond that he just seems to think you're wrong. His logic is poor, the whole thing reads like he is just knee-jerking to Obama's defense on the Warren issue, but so what? Did you ever expect to write a highly opinionated post om the internet and have other people NOT respond to it?
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You missed the worst of it.
Fortunately the worst of his comments are now gone, but the post and its ad hominem attacks remain. Honestly though I am going to move on from this soon even if his post does remain, because I challenged him on this now and unless he keeps posting more stuff about me I will move on. What I do want to do however is let people know that if they post crap about me on the internet, then I am going to challenge them on it. They are free to comment on me, but if they want to go that route they should not be surprised when I respond.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. What it all comes down to in the end...
I was a long time member of an anxiety-related site.

Lots of people didn't like what I had to say. Mostly because, even though I tried real hard to be respectful, people generally don't want honesty. They want to hear what they want to hear and that's it.

And being disliked by some (but liked by lots more), it really took a toll on me, emotionally. You would not believe some of the things I was called...even threatened personally by one person who knew where I live that I thought I could trust.

What I realized...belatedly...is that there are a lot more precious things that REALLY matter in life than some stupid internet message board and some of the morons who post on them.

So there was a rather bitter parting of ways between myself and this other message board, I discovered that, contrary to being bereft and heartbroken, I felt free of a rancid sickness. Because, let's face it...there are some really fucked up people in this world. And they may invite us to their parties, but that doesn't mean we have to go to them.

My suggestion to you is this...never post on multiple sites using the same screen name.

And realize that in the great scheme of things...while it may be annoying and hurtful, being smeared on a few blogs or message boards isn't exactly the end of the world.

I know you didn't ask for advice, but there it is, and I hope it's taken in the spirit in which it was given...that is, to help you see that there really are more important things in this world than the Internet and some of the idiots on it.

:)

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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. Libertarianism is very repugnant
Thank you for having the courage to move away from the social Darwinist libertarian movement.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'll let you know. And can I add, that I usually am in agreement with your posts
This is Democraticunderground, but I don't think that implies (nor should it) that it be "democraticonly_and_alwaysunderground."

I am sure that your time as a Libertarian tempered you and gave you an insight into a different way of looking at things. And why anyone should discredit you by saying that you never were a Libertarian to begin with, I cannot say.
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