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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:06 PM
Original message
Fitzgerald's shoddy investigation deserves no extension.
We need to let the next US Attorney continue this investigation. Fitzgerald had the Governor of Illinois handcuffed and arrested early in the morning just a couple of weeks ago. They led him out for public display. Then the esteemed US Attorney stood before the microphones and talked about Lincoln rolling over in his grave and the massive corruption and law-breaking that was going on with the governor.

Now we find out, he had nothing. Zilch. But he says he needs 90 more days to complete his investigation. To complete his investigation? He had the Governor handcuffed and displayed as an example of a crooked politician brought to justice. Now he tells us that he doesn't have the evidence and that he needs 90 more days to complete it? Something is wrong with this picture folks.

I say that Patrick Fitzgerald be requested to hand over his resignation before January 20th and that he explain his rationale for his actions. No one has the authority to arrest a Governor of any state unless they have the goods on them at the moment. Not 90 days in the future but right now. If he doesn't resign, he should be fired.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
Something went terribly wrong when Fitzgerald jumped the gun like that. I couldn't understand it, but if you frame it within the context of his fearing that Blago was going to appoint a Senator who'd bought his way in, well, maybe that makes sense, but I can't see it.

Maybe Fitzgerald just read too many of his own clippings. I'm really surprised at how badly he screwed this up.

Time to go.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree. If Fitz has the evidence to arrest Blago like he did,
show it to the rest of us. While I believe that Blago actually was trying to sell the senate seat, where is the smoking gun?
Just a few taped comments about the seat being like gold? Blago will walk away from this, just like everybody did in the Valarie Plame investigation. Our tax money at work.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. I told everyone on DU that he had not set forth enough evidence to
but no one would believe me. Now, Fitzgerald may be able to get a conviction, and the politicians in the Illinois legislature may impeach, and Blagojevich may be a far worse crook than anyone thinks, but because Fitzgerald took action before completing his investigation, there will never be clarity. Sure, Blagojevich is a jerk, and he talked (maybe he just talks like that) with his aides about things he wanted in exchange for naming someone to an office, but is that just a cocky way of talking? Was he just saying out loud what is pretty much accepted conduct in a lot of political circles? (You scratch my back, I scratch yours is what politics is about very often.) Maybe Fitzgerald has some secret witness somewhere?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
74. I believed you. I agreed.
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 06:45 PM by acmavm
edit: Or was it someone else's thread? Anyway, you were right.
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. He's got some 'splainin' to do
I think it's likely, Blag could be corrupt, but to arrest without evidence or not have even the slightest amount of proof to take before a grand jury looks politically motivated. Due Process. He knows the law. Going forward while not having enough or any evidence to support arresting someone is foul and sickening. Many people do not like the Gov. Many people believe he is corrupt. Fitz had a lot of people on his 'side' to support his actions, but taking the actions he did and not being able to back it up, makes him look corrupt. All anyone asks of public servants is that they play fair. Fitz did not "play fair" and he needs to hand this over to someone who will.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Fitz has screwed the pooch here, apparently in order to assist the repukes
in casting doubt on Democrats. Providing assistance to repukes seems to be a pattern for him, given his botching of the Plame investigation.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I have a hunch he was getting guidance from higher up...
if the truth be known..?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
88. Possibly from members of the same treasonous regime...
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 11:43 AM by JackRiddler
that he let off in such weak fashion during the two-year "Fitzmas" distraction?
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bobd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. These time limits are there for a reason.
After the show that paid Republican assassin, Fitzgerald, put on he better have had all the time and evidence he needed BEFORE opening his big mouth. If his case can't move forward within the prescribed deadlines then he doesn't have a case. Period.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not only do I agree with you, I also think that the Dem. Senate in Washington...
should have stood behind the Governor until he was proven guilty instead of throwing him under the bus.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. After the job that Fitz and the media did on the Governor....
Everyone in America thought he was guilty. How long are we willing to give Fitzgerald to find something, anything?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Look at the results of his investigation thus far....
The Democrats are fighting amongst themselves, even in the US Senate, about whether or not to seat the appointee for Obama's seat. The Governor has the right to appoint that person, even if the Governor is Blago. The US Senate does not have the right or authority to deny that seat. This is what Fitzgerald's actions have created. A Democratic Party in Illinois and in Washington that is fighting amongst themselves. Whether or not that was his intention, that was the result. And he obviously does not have enough to convict Blagoyevich or he would have already done it, wouldn't he? What is he waiting for?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
139. Yes....it's interesting how that turned out....isn't it...
:-(
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. his grandstanding was obvious to anyone who knew anything. unfortunately
joe six-pack doesn't know. i thing that he was acting on orders, and this kind of stalemate was part of the plan. if he had had the goods, he would have stepped down lt gov would have made the pic. but this chaos made calls for a special election more credible.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. He has to ask for the continuance
if he doesn't, if the court does not authorize it for good cause, the Speedy Trial Act time lines will run out.

Those damn statutes that get in the way.

Title I of the Speedy Trial Act of 1974, 88 Stat. 2080, as amended August 2, 1979, 93 Stat. 328, is set forth in 18 U.S.C. 3161-3174. The Act establishes time limits for completing the various stages of a federal criminal prosecution. The information or indictment must be filed within 30 days from the date of arrest or service of the summons. 18 U.S.C. 3161(b). Trial must commence within 70 days from the date the information or indictment was filed, or from the date the defendant appears before an officer of the court in which the charge is pending, whichever is later. 18 U.S.C. 3161(c)(1).


And yes, Blago is innocent and is entitled to have his rights protected, screw the public trials and the assumptions of guilt.

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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
13. New witnesses and information has come in since the arrests.
Now do we want to give Fitzgerald time to look into those, or are some going to demand he does it on an imposed timeline? I live in IL and would just as soon have the intel before the indictment.

<snip> In the motion filed in federal court on Wednesday, United States Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald asked for more time because multiple witnesses have come forward in recent weeks and investigators have to review thousands of intercepted phone calls.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/31/fitzgeral... /

<snip> In seeking the extension, which Blagojevich's defense attorneys are not opposing, prosecutors said they have intercepted "thousands of phone calls" by tapping Blagojevich's home phone between late October and early December.

They also said "multiple witnesses have come forward in recent weeks to discuss their knowledge of criminal activity" connected to the case against Blagojevich and John Harris, who resigned as the governor's chief of staff just days after he was arrested with Blagojevich.

They also noted that federal grand juries are not seated during the holidays and said there were other reasons they need the delay, but did not disclose them publicly. http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2008/12/us-seeks-mor...

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think you're all wrong. Like all legal eagles, Fitz would be a perfectionist,
and he wants Blag convicted with a work of art, not a rush job. This way he would obtain the maximum penalties.

As for Blag being paraded in handcuffs, you can bet Fitz had enough on him already to warrant that.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. then where is it?
you can always add to an indictment. but you better have enough for one before you stage a perp walk like this one.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. In the pipeline.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. He probably has Whitewater and Monica still open?
Did he not have enough to convict Governor Blago? But he needs more? More! More! More!
He fucked up.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
77. Nice try..sure will be an un-nerving 90 days for some people that have been HOODWINKED
I would say Blago has the goods on everybody in ORD..and I would bet many people are sweating...and the propaganda to protect "the one" has predictably reared it's ugly head.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
116. If I understand you correctly, you've got it. There seems a concerted campaign of
trollery going on.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
115. Rubbish! If you've read todays DU Home page, you should know that
he's after the biggest crooks, extensively broadening and deepening his investigation. You'll all look foolish when he's finished.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Just like how foolish we looked when Fristmas came along...
I think he is a Republican hack.. I don't believe he is as impartial as everyone seems to think..I think he had a rock solid case against Bush* Cheney and the whole Bush* Cabal but only went after Libby knowing Bush* would commute the sentence.. That is what I think, foolish or not..
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. Fitz did not enjoy the lawful cooperation from the White House that
the Watergate prosecutors enjoyed. You people seem to forget that Fitz has been forced to operate in a quasi-dictatorship; a full-blown dictatorship when Bush or Cheney felt personally threatened; no longer a country of laws. Which is kind of a hard row to hoe, i.e. for a lawyer to try to bring lawmakers and their cronies to book.

We shall see how it turns out. I don't suppose you're all operatives, but I've seen some of "the usual suspects" on here, giving their two penn'orth.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
141. I seem to remember how thrilled we were when after indicting Libby...and Bush communting his sentenc
we here were so thrilled that Fitz was "keeping the Grand Jury seated" and we thought more would be coming... Yeah...he was working up his case...more was going to come after Libby. What happened to it? I guess some folks would say..."Well that Grand Jury is still there...so maybe something more will come down the pike with Rove and Cheney." :rofl: Waiting for Fitz didn't seem to turn out the way the raving "It's FITZMAS...FITZMAS!!!" folks were saying all over here an on Blogs. :shrug: I'm thinking the Great Fitz is starting to look like some kind of well...let's say an "overblown ego" to be kind.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. not the right answer.
if he doesn't have enough for an indictment after 3 years of tapping the guys phone, sound to me like he is not a criminal. he shouldn't have arrested him if he didn't have enough to indict him. he got his 30 days. i would like my government back. i don't want everything that happens in my state under a cloud for 4 months.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
114. Did you read in DU today that he was still targeting guys at the top of "the
greasy pole", continually broadening the scope of his investigation to dig deeper and deeper?
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
99. You Surprise Me Mo
I thought i knew you better than i obviously do. I can't believe you're standing behind Blago and accusing Fitzgerald of impropriety. You've been here the whole time. Do you really believe that Rod is clean?

Sorry, but i don't buy it. He's dirty, but he's just not as dirty as Ryan, Walker, Kerner, or Thompson before him. (Well, Thompson actually did get away with his crimes.)
GAC
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
56. He arrested the guy for conspiracy.
I would think that Blago must be acting alone, especially since he's a pariah and all. No one will go near him.

So, where is this big criminal organization?

You must remember that this is the SAME prosecutor that saw no conspiracy the in Libby case, a case where everybody knows that the entire White House cabal and half of the Washinton press corps were in league with him. They all conspired, including the press, in the cover-up.

How is that even possible?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. I agree. I think if Fitz is allowed to play his hand, many people
are going to be pleasantly surprised.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. How so, babylonsister ?
What do you see happening? I don't see any good coming out of this for the Democrats or the new Administration. I think Fitzgerald is much more partisan than people may think?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. See post #13, which people conveniently seem to be ignoring.
There's a whole lot we don't know about yet.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Who says??
Fitzgerald?
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #72
90. I say.
Ask anybody that lives here, the writing has been on the walls for years. He is a crook...But is innocent till proven guilty.

The BIG question isn't if Blago is guilty ..The question is 'does Fitz have evidence'

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
128. New evidence should be helpful to Fitzgerald, not cause for a request for an extension.
Fitzgerald is saying that he doesn't have enough evidence now. He should have obtained that evidence before making a very public and very political arrest.
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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
93. Unfortunately for "Fitz"
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 12:05 PM by Bjarne Riis
he has to play his hand within the rules. And the rule states he must file his indictment within 30 days of the arrest.

The only reason I have heard for the rushed arrest was the fear that Blago would appoint a Senator that had paid for the seat.

I never understood why that was a problem. Wouldn't it be better to have solid evidence of corruption, but the person doing the bribing and the person being bribed, instead of just loose talk about what someone might do in the future?

This is mighty close to mind crime. In criminal act, you need to have an overt act for a crime. If Blago never told any of the candidates that they had to pay a certain amount of monay for the seat, I don't really think he had taken the last step to complete the crime, or even attempting it.


(By the way, I never understood why the whole Plame cases ended with Libby. If he was convicted of lying, why did Fitz stop there? If he knew Libby was lying about him being the one telling about Plame, obviously other people committed a crime. Yet, Fitz stopped with the Libby conviction?)
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
59. If he's a perfectionist, why wasn't there an indictment within 30 days?
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #59
84. I seem to recall the "Fitzgerald is a perfectionist" meme during the Libby case...
When many of us wondered not if, but when, Fitz would call Rove to testify, I kept reading remarks like "Fitz is a perfectionist; Fitz is getting his ducks in a row; Fitz knows what he's doing...etc.etc.etc" We all knew once he got Rove under oath, the whole thing would explode. Well, he never did call him to testify and the rest is history: BushCo was permitted to commit treason and no one suffered for it.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
106. Fitzpatrick is virtually incompetent, as he proved in Plame.
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 02:53 PM by TexasObserver
And he's a political hack, a Bush-Cheney tool.

If he has a case, he should have an indictment already.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
127. Your post contradicts itself.
Either Fitzgerald is being a perfectionist - in which case he should not have arrested the governor until he had all the evidence he needs - or Fitzgerald attempted to railroad the governor - in which case he is not a perfectionist.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is looking fishier by the minute. nt
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. See, and I fucking told you guys at the time there was something off about the parading
And that he was being convicted BY the DA in public before a trial even took place. And of course, I got yelled at here.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. I'm So Proud of All the DUers Who've Held Their Ground on This From Day One
:toast:
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. Agree and one should not forget what happened to Alabama's Don Siegelman. n/t
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. he is basically being accused of the same thing.
things that have been going on under 3 previous rethug governors, 30+ years, and all the sudden somebody is shocked, shocked i tell you that money is changing hands, and arms are being twisted. this investigation started with a guy who was on the hospital facilities board, appointed by ryan. and shaking people down to his heart's content for a decade.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
76. I'm still shocked that the first real talk of impeachment
Regarding a trial in the press that basically was begging for impeachment, was not over our lying-us-into war President, or our torture is legal if I say it is Vice PResident, but over a single Senate seat.

A million murdered yet no talk of punishment. The USA citizenry spied on, yet no one held accountable.

But one corrupt Governor of Illinois - endless headlines, and people of both parties jacking off over the thought of it.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #76
83. nobody died when blaggo lied
or stole.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #76
95. Absolutely. And the fact that Harry "Dry Powder" Reid will take a 'principled' stand against
seating a Dem in the Senate, but not against the fucking criminal enterprise that is the Republican Party/ Bush Administration over the last few years is nauseating.


Truly.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
129. Yeah, and Ryan's in prison
Blago belongs right alongside him. The corruption didn't start with Blago, you're right about that - but you seem to imply we should tolerate it. Fuck that. Throw 'em all in jail - Ryan, Blago, Dem, Repuke, I don't CARE, if they're involved in this shit, they should go down. I'm tired of making excuses for the sorry fucking state of affairs in Illinois.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. I questioned whether Blagojevich had done anything in the beginning of this.
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 01:40 PM by IMModerate
I'm not saying he's innocent, but the things that they talked about sounded a lot like business as usual to me. There is a big difference between bribery and extortion, and exchanging political favors, (except in the Siegelman case.)

It just didn't seem to me that they'd found anything serious enough to nail a governor.

--IMM
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. He's totally lost his credibility. He always seemed like such a cautious guy
what made him go on such a crazy tirade?
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redstate_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
124. job security
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'd love to know Governor Siegelman's..
Edited on Thu Jan-01-09 01:40 PM by stillcool47
opinion on all of this. A 3 year investigation? Kind of reminds me of Ken Starr. WTF is going on here?
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Exactly! We don't want or need another ken starr. nt
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fitz may be too clever by half
But I'm not quite ready to throw him under the bus just yet.

There's gotta be a whole lot more that hasn't yet been revealed. And, I doubt he has 'zilch'.

It just gets more and more interestinger.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'd say so. If he doesn't have the goods by now, it's time to end it.
What I don't want is another ken starr who investigates relentlessly until he finds something and then can't prove what he found. :wtf:
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. If Fitz is such a hot shit prosecutor
How come Karl Rove and Cheney are walking around loose instead of in federal prison awaiting death sentences for treason?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Because of our Democratic spineless wonders, Reid and Pelosi. Hearing after hearing,
subpoenas issued, never enforced, witnesses evading questions and lying under oath. Nothing. Absolutely nothing done about it.

Blame the corporate Dems and the corporate media for being complicit with the Republican fascists.

I'm giving Fitzgerald the benefit of the doubt on this one. He got Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff convicted. The Congress dropped their balls--I mean, the ball.

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bottomtheweaver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
25. I fully agree.
Why we're supposed to hop on the Dem lynchmobile I can only guess, and the answers I come up with aren't pretty.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. So much for Fitzmas...
Everyone was irrationally in love with this man not too long ago. Even some men here wanted to bare his children.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. bear his children.
They are bare when they are born.

Fitz is a very cautious person.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. Doesn't get Rove WITH evidence, gets a Dem WITHOUT it, so far.
Glad he investigates.
Glad he got Irv.

But, so far, he's not given any deserving people a day in jail.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. LOL. Great way to put it.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
29. You said it. There are plenty of prosecutors. Get someone else on the case.
Fitz jumped the gun. The Bank of America timing is too fishy for me.
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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. He's a republican hack. He's doing this on purpose. I really believe it.
It's working, too. Divide and conquer. That's what they do. Now they are stirring up racial tensions. That said, Bobby Rush and Burris are right about the white elitist senate. What a mess.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. Blagojevich is GUILTY
He's been guilty for the past three years.

He's the most crooked politician in Illinois history.

Come to Illinois and bloviate your bullshit. You'll be laughed out of the state.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Are we supposed to take your word and Fitz's word...?
or are we permitted to see the evidence??
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. !
:thumbsup:
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Kentuck, Blago really is a mess.
Seriously. He's bad. Very bad.

Illinois will be lucky if we can get him impeached and out of office before he can do any more damage. (Understand, I make a distinction here between impeachment and conviction--ok?) Blago has locked up our political process in this state to the point that our Dem controlled legislature has been at loggerheads with him for a couple of years now--this is not just a recent sort of meltdown. There are not too many in the legislature that have any good will for Blag and his impeachment is mostly gonna be an ugly process.

As for Fitz, I think there was pressure for them to act before Blago managed to auction off that Senate seat. I personally doubt they will get a conviction on that unless they have a lot more on tape than what they have released up to now. I DO think, however, that there is a bunch of other stuff that they do have on Blago and THAT is what they can convict on right now.

There has been a low level buzz for a while now about stuff the Blago "insiders" have been doing. A couple of years ago there was even a big shake up in CMS (the central hiring agency for the state) and a few of Blago's guys got nailed in that for everything from nepotism to hiring based on campaign work performed. Blago was tied to it, but never directly.

I will tell you that in the case of the last Illinois Governor that Fitz convicted they went after the lower level guys first and then used THEM to nail the higher ups--literally they worked their way up the food chain. While I have no way to prove it, I suspect that Fitz's office has been equally methodical in this case.

Illinois politics is a cesspool. It was that way before I ever came on the scene and it has not changed a bit. We have a rich and varied history here of everything from pay to play, to nepotism to even personal threats and intimidation. I've seen state staffers work campaigns on the taxpayer dime and I have observed first hand some of aspects of state hiring that would probably curl a lot of folks hair.

I'm no "insider" in Blago's circles, but based on what little I have seen, Blago reeks. If Fitz has turned too many folks Blago will go down and it is probably gonna end up in some jail time. It is THAT simple.

It is what it is, and there are some of us in this state that choose NOT to play that game. They make us ALL look bad and as a political person I have been offered bribes and accused of being a criminal any number of times. Small wonder taxpayers feel that way--there are an awful lot of pols here who have lowered the bar.

Blag is bad news. I'm sorry. He is. This is not some Republican attack, this is not about some turf war between warring factions of Dems in the state. It is about a politician that makes every ONE of us look bad to the rest of the world.

Peace to you. I wish it wasn't this way.



Laura
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Well, he has been investigating for 3 years, right?
Does he have enough to convict? If not, why not?
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I think he has enough to convict right now. I think they are working for more.
I think they are scrambling at this point to get enough to try and convict on the Senate thing. I have no doubt they'd like to get him on it, but just having a tape of Blago talking about selling that seat is not gonna be enough (I don't think, anyway) for them to get a conviction.

Tony Rezco (remember THAT name?) has given them a LOT, according to the rumors, and if there are any bodies buried he's in a position to know where they are (figure of speech only--I am not accusing anyone of murder!) As a fundraiser for Blag, he is certainly somebody that Fitz was interested in turning.

There was a lot reported in the media during Rezco's trial that was thrown out here during the Primaries as damning to Obama. What the Illinois folks kept saying at the time was the unnamed politician they were talking about was not Obama--that there was nothing there--but that Blago needed to be worried.

When they DO finally go after the conviction my prediction will be they settle for the basic corruption, conspiracy, and graft charges with maybe some mail fraud or insider trading thrown in for good measure.



Laura
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #61
75.  Bigger fish to fry ..that is why! wake up..you have all been warned of this!
you just chose to ignore it.

eom
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. There's another point, too
There's a hell of a lot of shit they can almost pin on Blago, but they need another three months to develop the evidence.

The plan as of last summer was to indict Blagojevich in MArch. Blago auctioning off the Senate seat forced Fitz's hand. That's the ONLY REASON Blago was arrested in 2008.
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
35. Gee, he did such a good job w/ Plamegate
:sarcasm:
I mean, take away the "sand in the face" and the whole administration would have been indicted - or something like that.
Please, the irrational adoration for this guy was just "plame" dumb.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. Fitz has been the biggest disappointment. I don't think he's on our side, so I'm not surprised.
:argh:
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WillowTree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. You don't live in Illinois, do you?
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. No, why?
You know something you can tell us that we haven't heard already?
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WillowTree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
71. Because if you were, you'd know Blo-J's a slug.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. But what laws did the slug break??
He can't be convicted for just being a slug, can he?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. so you noticed that most of the critics do not live in illinois
there`s not many here in illinois that are shedding a tear that blago is under investigation. i think most of us are glad our senate seat was`t sold to the highest bidder. imagine if he knew what was happening and did`t stop it..then we found out? if fitz needs 90 days i`m all for it. this has to be cleaned up before next year. thanks to fitz the republicans are still looking for the answer and we have some excellent candidates for the senate and govenorship.

the last i read fitz is staying here in northern illinois
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. Fitzgerald IS the next US Attorney.
Obama's said he plans to reappoint him.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Then I will make a prediction...
He will regret that day.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. why would he regret a federal prosecutor who

has done an excellent job here in the northern district of illinois putting the really bad guys in prison.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Because he is up to no good...
and he is not on your side or on the side of law and justice. You have been hoodwinked.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
47. Yeah, and let that asshole appoint someone to the senate that paid for the seat? Fuck that
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. hey it`s the "chicago way"..LOL!
do`t you prefer your senator to be selected by the highest bidder..... :rofl:
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Blago is the master-mind behind the last eight years of corruption.
:eyes:

He's the kingpin propping up the criminal cabal!

:rofl:
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. Doing business in Illinois
Just got this email yesterday from an old roommate who managed to escape Illinois for the "fresh air" politics of Florida. Figured you all might get a giggle from it, but more important, it illustrates exactly why the folks of Illinois are not shocked about yet another Governor under investigation:

________

Three contractors are bidding to fix a broken fence at the Governor's Mansion in Springfield. One from the capitol city of Springfield, another from the small town of Petersburg, and the third from Chicago.

They go with an official from the Governor's staff to examine the fence.

The Springfield contractor takes out a tape measure and does some measuring, then works some figures with a pencil. 'Well', he says, 'I figure the job will run about $900: that's $400 for materials, $400 for my crew and $100 profit for me.'

The Petersburg contractor also does some measuring and figuring, then says, 'I can do this job for $700: that's $300 for materials, $300 for my crew and $100 profit for me.'

The Chicago contractor doesn't measure or figure, but leans over to the Governor's young staff member and whispers, '$2,700'

The inexperienced idiot, says, 'Hey, you didn't even measure like the other guys! How did you come up with such a high figure?'

The Chicago contractor whispers back, 'that's $1000 for me, $1000 for you, and we hire the dumb ass from Petersburg to fix the fence.'

'Done!' replies the youngster!

And that, my friends, is how business is done in Illinois!!!



Welcome to Illinois politics!

:shrug:


Laura
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Great Joke. I Guess It Explains Why So Many Chicago-Taught Straussians Are Ruling the Economy
But it still doesn't equate to evidence a jury will convict on.
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WillowTree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. And it's even more illustrative when you realize that....
...nobody has LIVED in the governor's mansion in Springfield for the last five years.

(Yes, I know it's a joke. I'm just sayin'....)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #62
92. This is how business is done in America. Or under capitalism, period.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
120. ya i dealt with the state before on a contracting job
....the one agency wanted the fabric walls removable because they were taking them when the other agency took over the building. i did get paid within a week of completion


right now my wife is waiting to see if her new job is going to be funded...
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. If Fitz thinks that he did that, then let's have a trial.
Right?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #52
81. We will have a trial, very soon.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #81
86. Wanna bet?
I'll wager a $10 donation to DU that there will never be a trial. Are you on?
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #86
89. You know what? Absolutely.
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 11:21 AM by no limit
I got $10 I could spare (of course I wont lose :) ). Only thing is what if he takes a deal? Then nobody wins?
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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
96. Please tell who paid for that seat.
Did Burris pay for the seat?

Fitzgerald said Blago was arrested BEFORE anyone had paid for the seat, to avoid a mess later to get rid of an appointed Senator.

But maybe all you Illinois people know something the rest of us don't.
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no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. Thanks exactly my point.
Fitzgerald said Blago was arrested BEFORE anyone had paid for the seat, to avoid a mess later to get rid of an appointed Senator.

That means he didn't have an opportunity to appoint anyone based on a sale of the seat. Had fitz not moved in and made the arrest chances are Burris would not have been the one chosen, it would have been someone else.
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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. And wouldnt that have been better?
Catch bot of the people involved in the criminal enterprise. Cops do it everyday with sting operations.

Here are the facts:

1) Blag is the Governor of Illinois.
2) The Governor of Illinois has the power appoint a successor to a vacant Senate set, until the next election.
3) Blago appointed Burris,
4) There are no allegations of any wrongdoing from either Blago or Burris with regards to this appointment.


What the hell is the problem?
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
51. Yes, absolutely.
This is a circus.

It must end now.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
54. Fitzgerald, incompetent or corrupt?
Incompetence or corruption are the only classification of Fitzgerald. "I had to prevent a crime!" is not his job. The governor, sleaze ball that he is, was elected by the people of Illinois. A US attorney has no right to preemptively arrest a governor.

Why didn't Fitzgerald just catch Blago in the act of appointing a Senator for money? Apparently Harry Reid doesn't have to allow Burris to be seated, so there is no way the Senate had to allow an appointee caught in the act of bribing the governor to be seated.

This guy Fitzgerald is a complete and utter ass-clown. Fuckup. Or he is just a complete rethuglican political hack.

Blago is going to get off because he committed no crime (well the hair is not a FEDERAL crime and neither is being an asshole.) No money changed hands, nobody even offered any! No quid pro quo, thus, no crime.

I've been underwhelmed by Fitzgerald since his lame prosecution of the Plame case and this latest fiasco is the clincher. What a maroon.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
100. You Keep Telling Yourself That
"Blago . . .committed no crime!" Ridiculous.
GAC
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
68. I'm a Fitz fan but I'm really disappointed this time
It doesn't look good.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-01-09 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
69. I followed every step he made during the
Plame trial (via firedoglake) and he is exceptionally careful and thorough. (see post 13 and tell me that it isn't worth an extention)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
78. And so many people here fell for "Fitzmas."
This is a guy who couldn't find a charge against anyone in the Bush regime with regard to Plame and the Iraq war lies, except Libby (who was dangled as an acceptable loss), and even him for nothing more than perjury in the course of his investigation, and here people have heroized him for years and years. I bet he's had as many quid-pro-quo arrangements in his career as Blago himself.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. You're fucking kidding me, aren't you?
Here are some facts. See if you can keep up.

>This is a guy who couldn't find a charge against anyone in the Bush regime with regard to Plame and the Iraq war lies, except Libby (who was dangled as an acceptable loss), and even him for nothing more than perjury in the course of his investigation, and here people have heroized him for years and years.<

He managed a conviction against the third highest ranking person in the White House, the first time this has happened in 167 YEARS. Libby was the gatekeeper. He was the key to getting both Bush and Cheney put behind bars. Those who think they are "experts" on the entire situation either don't comprehend what they read, or they just plain refuse to accept facts. The only way Bush and Cheney would have been tried is if a) Fitzgerald could have secured Libby's testimony against them, and b) the case itself was handled by Congress due to greymail issues. That case would have NEVER been heard in open court because of the national security issues, and greymail almost derailed Libby's case as well. The special counsel and his staff fought tooth and nail to make sure it didn't happen. They got a conviction against astronomical odds. Libby's sentence was commuted to shut him up. If he was pardoned, his Fifth Amendment rights don't apply, and he'd be on the hot seat in a New York City minute.

"Nothing more than perjury"? Perjury brought Bill Clinton down.

>I bet he's had as many quid-pro-quo arrangements in his career as Blago himself.

Oh, you bet. That's exactly why he stays in the US Attorney's office at a fraction of what he could make per year in a private law firm, not to mention the fact that he'd probably work less hours at a private firm as well.

So, Blago's completely innocent, and then in the next breath, you're bitching about "quid pro quo"? You might want to rethink your entire premise.

It's comical to me that so many here are sooooooooo much more intelligent than Patrick Fitzgerald. At the same time, I sure as hell don't see any of you taking the assistant US attorney career path. I wonder why?

:lmao:
Julie
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #79
85. Oh, this is good...
I don't care how many past White House criminals have gotten away with their crimes in the course of US history. We all know that. When does it end? Fitzgerald was not asked to look into Teapot Dome, he was charged with investigating possible Bush regime crimes relating to Plame. This is probably the most criminal and openly lawless regime in more than even your "167 years." (Actually, I remember a regime less than 35 years ago being forced to resign for lesser crimes than what the Ashcroft-appointed REPUBLICAN Fitzgerald had in front of him to pursue at the outset of his inconclusive two-year distraction.)

The Plame case led to the Niger forgeries and the hundreds of lies and deceptions practiced in setting up an unprovoked war of aggression and genocide condemned by most of the world. Just on the campaign to destroy Wilson and Plame, indictments could have been brought against Armitage, Rove, and, if Fitzgerald had dared to *start* with them as well as Libby, many others. If he wasn't ready to dare, he should have refused the appointment. (Apparently he has no problems engaging in ill-considered public grandstanding against a garden-variety small-time governor-thief like Blago, perhaps in compensation for the kow-tow he did tho the Bush mob.) Fuck him and the two years of wasted energy and hopes he inspired among the naive on the left and in the antiwar crowd.

Clinton was never "brought down," by the way. I've got nothing against perjury charges -- as additions to the charges of treason that were actually relevant in the Bush case.

As to your Fitzmas cheerleading -- please disclose if you have any relevant relationship or conflict of interest here -- the upshot apparently is that one has to be a US Attorney to criticize one. Would I have to take on a career at the DMV to have the right to criticize the guy who handles my drivers' license? If Fitz is making such a sacrifice for public service, when he could instead be a millionaire playboy or whatever you imagine for him, still he is required to serve credibly or make way for someone who might.

On to Blago. Now show me where I say "Blago's completely innocent." How dare you? Really.

Blago's a small-potatoes operator practicing business as usual within a system of routine and in fact required corruption. Based alone on the Senate seat-for-sale scandal that has been most covered in his case, what's unusual about him is that he spoke too openly about how the system works in a brutal, vulgar fashion. If he had used better code words and come from a more genteel class of person like Caroline Kennedy, he'd have gotten away with it.

Very few politicians get anywhere without playing the one-dollar, one-vote system, and while I'm all for hauling in anyone who breaks the law, the only cure for this will be to establish public campaign finance.

(Mark as irony: On the whole, I'm happy for Illinois and its relatively effective law enforcement. Putting three governors in the slammer for corruption puts them three ahead of most other states. This example probably needs to be followed, not decried.)

Anyway, your genius Fitzgerald - the Republican - apparently arrested a state governor before having the full case ready. I'm sure he's smarter than a lot of people, as you say, but smart is often just the means for doing stupid on a higher level. Also known as hubris.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #85
98. boo yah.
sorry to buttinski, but your post deserves booyahs.

the thing that jumps out at me about Blago is his use of "crassness," and refusal to play "the gentleman's game." as such, I completely agree with your assessment of "routine and... required corruption."

it does, in fact seem that Fitz was much more enthusiastic in prosecuting Blago than anyone in the Plame case. that is really troubling.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
101. We Illinois folks have already SEEN Fitz deliver up the goods when he convicted Ryan.
I know a lot of folks here were disappointed with the Plame thing, but the folks from Illinois have already watched Fitz deliver one of our governors to the prison gates. We have a little longer history with Fitz and his work.


I'm not saying they will be able to nail Blago for the attempt to auction a Senate seat (I've maintained all along that is probably the weakest aspect of the case) but I do believe they have enough in the can right now to get a conviction on other stuff. The way Fitz nailed George Ryan was by getting the guys lower down the food chain and then tracking it right back up the line to the bosses. I think they have been working it that same way with the investigations of Blago.

Back in 2006 there was a flap about Illinois hiring practices and it linked to Blagojevich pretty strongly:

http://www.stop158.org/2006/2006-05-21-probe.htm

We also have seen the entire Tony Rezko trial (and conviction) that also had pretty strong links back to Blago. The Feds were holding Rezko prior to sentencing and it has been widely held opinion that Rezko had some pretty solid info to offer up about the inner workings of the Blagojevich administration:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/rezko/1189480,rezko0...

Remember, Mrs Blagojevich (Chicago City Alderman Richard Mell's daughter) has been a parter with Rezko in some of his deals, along with Cellini, who was already indicted on corruption charges...


If you sit down a do a Google search on some of these names you start to see a pattern that is pretty ugly and it is not one that bodes well for Blago's immediate future. It also leads me to think that Fitz has probably got quite a bit already and is just working to put the finishing touches on the case.

Just my two cents.


Laura
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #101
137. I have a question for you.
Edited on Sat Jan-03-09 09:12 AM by Usrename
Blagojevich is charged with conspiracy to commit fraud, and also some sort of bizarre soliciting a bribe charge for saying he would like to get some people at Chicago Tribune fired, right?

Let's look at Fitz's two other high-profile cases that I know something about.

In the Ryan case, he went up the "food chain" (as you say) to get to the governor, 12 counts of racketeering conspiracy were charged, along with 6 other charges.

The verdicts were a resounding victory for the prosecution. The jury found Ryan guilty on all 18 counts of racketeering conspiracy, mail fraud, lying to the FBI, obstructing the Internal Revenue Service and filing false tax returns. Warner was convicted on all 12 counts of racketeering conspiracy, extortion, money laundering and evading cash-reporting requirements.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-...





In the Libby case, where we all KNOW, without any possibility of a doubt, the entire White House and half the Washington press corp was deeply involved in a coverup, there were not any conspiracy charges filed. Instead, he interviewed Karl Rove a half dozen times.



What do you think led Fitz to go after Blago on conspiracy, and not Libby and Rove?

Is it Blago's foul mouth? Blago appears to be acting completely alone. He's a pariah and has been for a long time. Nobody will have anything to do with him. So what is this criminal cabal that is conspiring to bring down our government all about? Is Blago the one responsible for all of the corruption and war profiteering of the past eight years? I don't get it.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
107. Another expert
In other words, you don't have the courage to do the job yourself, but you're going to tell them how to do it, aren't you? If you'd done any reading at all about the runup to charging Libby, etcetera, it might be a good thing, but that's too much to ask as well, isn't it?

>please disclose if you have any relevant relationship or conflict of interest here

What "relevant relationship" are you looking for? And, no, I do not work for the US government, if that's what you're driving at.

I also will give a donation to DU if you can find any, ANY written proof that Patrick Fitzgerald is a Republican. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Julie

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #107
125. Correction as requested.
I was misled by the very widespread statement that Fitzpatrick is a declared Republican, something I had no reason to doubt but that is, as I have discovered, false. In fact, he has no declared party affiliation; he was appointed by a Republican governor whom he later brought down.

Nevertheless, charged with investigating the worst and most unabashedly lawless criminal organization currently known to be operating in the United States -- the illegitimate Bush regime -- and specifically to prosecute any crimes relating to the outing of Valerie Plame as a CIA agent -- which was done in the course of psychological operations aimed at the American people prior to the launching of an illegal aggressive war on the nation of Iraq -- said USA Fitzgerald did, apparently, lose the elan and characteristic recklessness in the cause of justice that he now displays plentifully in arresting the governor of Illinois before actually having a case ready for court! No, when confronting the Beast itself, Attorney Fitzgerald took no "risks" except against one of its more particularly obnoxious independent mouthpieces (can't say I didn't enjoy her enforced vacation) and ultimately, alas, backed off, or perhaps acted as expected by his appointers at the Ashcroft Justice Department, and restricted himself to positively laughable charges against the very man who had been told to fall on his sword -- only symbolically, I fear -- so as to protect the rest of the mob; said charges not even relating to the crime itself, but the later lies told about it. In the end, it was all not unlike pretending to poke around Ted Bundy's garage for two years, the whole time promising unrelenting justice before the cameras and inspiring hope among a number of the victims, only to conclude by hauling the serial killer in for an afternoon on a traffic violation.

And for this, apparently, Mr. Fitzmas still has his fans among those who imagine themselves opponents to Bush.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #79
97. Umm - "perjury" did NOT "bring Bill Clinton down - in fact - he was never found guilty of any LYING
let along "perjury"...

you know shit...
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
108. Actually, Tank, I'm sure I know more than you do on most subjects
Bill Clinton lied. He went through a several-year circus because of it.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Unfortunately, Ken Starr exploited this.

Julie
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camera obscura Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #79
122.  thank you for this post!
People are so emotional about these issues that they'll change their opinions of someone in a fraction of a second because they're not 100% perfect. If Blago was a Republican and this case was unfolding in the same way, you can bet the reaction would be different.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
80. I am not a Fitz fan, never have been. But I am missing the part where you conclude
that there is no evidence, just because it hasn't been presented. As with many of the public trials we've seen, information comes out slowly, for a variety of reasons. If in fact there is no evidence, he'll be the laughing stock of the country and he'll probably lose his license to practice law. If he does have evidence, I would let it come out at the proper rate.

Having said all that I will add that I personally think he failed miserably at Plamegate.

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #80
91. Fitz must have known....?
that his last day as a US Attorney could be January 20th. Surely he would have enough evidence to convict Blago of "some" charge? Who else do you think he is after? Surely he would present his case before that date, would he not? Unless, of course, he has been guaranteed another 4 years as US Attorney? Unfortunately, it doesn't add up.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
82. something stinks to high heaven...what was fitzgeralds point????
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #82
87. My guess: To demonstrate that a Republican USA will take no risks...
Edited on Fri Jan-02-09 11:43 AM by JackRiddler
when pursuing widespread and obvious treason in a Republican White House, with the very future of constitutional government at stake. But he is happy to be reckless in going after small-potatoes corruption, long as it's from a Democrat and in keeping with the zeitgeist.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #87
94.  I love the your comment!
"To demonstrate that a Republican USA will take no risks...when pursuing widespread and obvious treason in a Republican White House, with the very future of constitutional government at stake." That is what it appears to be, but let's see what is going behind the curtain.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
118. succinct....
:toast:
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
102. Can someone explain why the OP thinks there is no evidence?
Did I miss something?

How can anyone assume there is no evidence, just because we haven't seen it?

News reports have said that the taped phone calls have been shown to some people and I haven't heard anyone say they are fake or anything like that.

Where is this "there is zilch evidence" claim coming from?

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I'm holding a nickle in my hand, and you can't see it. Does that mean I don't really have it?

the OP argument is flawed, unless I missed something.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. By asking for an extension, Fitzgerald is saying it
That right now, he does not have enough evidence to indict, he needs more time. Well, if there is not enough evidence to indict, then why have the arrest and the media slander?
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. He won't go to court until he has it all locked down
Of course, imagine the criticism if he'd not acted before Blago sold the seat.

Julie
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #103
134. Asking for an extension does not imply there is no evidence
You can make that deduction but it's speculation. There are a variety of reasons for asking for an extension.

I think it's a big leap to say there is no evidence whatsoever. is the OP actually saying that the tapes are just a fictional fabrication of Fitzgerald? that Fitzgerald said there are recorded conversations and gave some of the exact quotations, when there are in fact no such tapes at all?

i think he would be a complete idiot to say there's a tape when there isn't one. eventually everyone would find out he made it up and he would probably lose his law license.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #102
123. he would have indicted him if he had the goods.
to arrest a sitting governor without the evidence needed for an indictment is just insane. and to ask for an extension, 90 days no less, is just a freakin' travesty. he has been investigating the guy for 3 years. shit, if you followed my around for 3 years you could probably find something to charge me with.
this is a good old fashioned witch hunt, pure and simple.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
105. Agree. Ken Starr, Jr. has already screwed up too much.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
110. blago is a complete and total scumbag.
LISTEN to the people from illinois on this one.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. So, why is Fitzgerald having such a hard time convicting him?
Would he need an extension to prove Stevie Wonder is blind!?

Wave at him Fitz, then get back to me.

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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #111
144. he's not going to have any trouble convicting him...
from what i understand- more witnesses have come out of the woodwork, so there's more to be done. before the indictening.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #110
131. They'd rather not - it might get in the way of their woo woo conspiracy theories
We in Illinois have known about Blago's utter rottenness from day one of his governorship six years ago.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #131
133. And did you vote for him anyway?
Or did you vote for someone else?
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. I voted Green, like 12% of the electorate in the 2006 gubernatorial election
If that's not a signal from the people of Illinois that we're sick to fucking death of the corrupt status quo, I don't know what is.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
113. Fitzgerald-----------
-----------> x(
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
121. Spot on.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
126. I'm really disgusted with Fitzgerald over this.
This has turned out to be another example of the Republicans intimidating and incarcerating Democratic leaders without cause. Blago is no saint, that's for sure. But either Fitzgerald had the evidence to arrest him that day or he did not.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-02-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
130. More bullshit from the Blagojevich fan club
The man is a crook. Everyone in Illinois knows he's a crook. He's been a crook for six years. And yet we have all these DUers who know jack shit about Illinois politics pontificating about how poor old Blago is being set up and blah blah blah. You know NOTHING about this situation, so can it with the fucking conspiracy theories. Rod Blagojevich is one of the most corrupt motherfuckers in American politics and I can't wait to see him go down in flames.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
132. If everyone in Illinois knew he was a crook...?
Then why did they vote for him?? If after 3 years, you need another 90 day extension, then something is a little fishy. Could it be that his aim is to bring down the entire Democratic Party establishment? It is now being reported that Harry Reid called him and it is probably on tape, requesting that he not appoint Jesse Jackson Jr or Danny Davis and another person who was a close acquaintance of Barack Obama. Also, the Senator from NJ may be on the tape also, making demands of Governor Blago? Who knows? Maybe Barack Obama himself is on tape with some incriminating language? Three cheers for Fitz!!
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
136. No. Blago needs to go.
He's a corrupt piece of shit and we do not need him dirtying the Democratic "brand". I don't care whether he actually goes to jail or not; I just want him gone, and I am sure people who actually live in Illinois agree because they have seen firsthand what he has done. He tried to sell the Senate seat; I can't believe anyone here is defending him. It's disgraceful.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
138. I'm starting to have my doubts about him, now.....
He sure gave the Media something on a platter for the to jabber about. Opened a can of worms and now he's got "Give 'em Hell Harry" the "whiner" all up in arms looking like the fool he is...

Your "hunch" is starting to sound like it's a winner....
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #138
142. I think his intent is to handcuff the Obama Administration...
for the next four years. The way everyone is running for cover, it appears he is on track to succeed.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
140. Fitz is a Bushboy and is truely overrated.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
143. "...had the Governor of Illinois handcuffed and arrested..."
....so where's the beef, fitzgerald?....are you fishing?....or worse?

....Blago should launch his own investigation into fitzgeralds' office and certain Illinois lawmakers, federal officials and newly elected politicians....

....a conspiratorial act, to unjustly remove a duly elected sitting Governor, is a coup, or at the very least, 'tainted'...
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