Got into to it with my BIL over whether or not 'NORAD Santa Tracker' constitutes propaganda.

[arcadian]

I said that just the fact that it's a public relations program put out by the U.S. Air Force makes it propaganda. He saw it as good clean lighthearted fun. I pointed out that some of the places "Santa" was delivering gifts were military bases like Guantanamo Bay(not making that up), Bikini Atoll and Cape Canaveral. He said I was paranoid. Santa tracker was started in the 1950s during the height of the Cold War when Sears "accidentally" gave out the wrong number in a Christmas program to find out where Santa would be as he delivered presents. One of the sponsors is Booz Allen Hamilton per the wiki page, too lazy to link it here but here is the Santa Tracker website.

http://www.noradsanta.org/en/home.html


NORAD is the bi-national U.S.-Canadian military organization responsible for the aerospace and maritime defense of the United States and Canada. NORAD, created by a 1958 agreement between Canada and the United States, provides advanced warning of impending missile and air attack against its member nations, safeguards the air sovereignty of North America, and maintains airborne forces for defense against attack.

NORAD's mission has evolved over the years. The most recent "evolution" in our mission came as a result of the tragic events of September 11, 2001. NORAD now coordinates closely with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and NAV CANADA to monitor the airspace within Canada and the United States. In addition, the command also conducts maritime monitoring.

The men and women of NORAD are constantly watching the skies and waterways of the United States and Canada to keep us safe.

http://www.noradsanta.org/en/anorad.html

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Only if they brag...

About getting him with a HATDM in one try.

[Common Sense Party]

2. I agree with your BIL. Good grief.

Lighten up.

[arcadian]

4. Yeah you are right.

The military only kills people the Preznit is pissed off at. Lesson: don't piss off the Preznit. :eyes:

[Pirate Smile]

5. I agree.

[Kittycat]

10. Agreed... It made for a lot of entertaining fun for my 5yo yesterday.

[Sherman A1]

24. Agreed

It's a cute little piece and in my opinion harmless.

[Deja Q]

3. Maybe, but unlike bullying, this is a time when children should be allowed to be children

A tradition isn't evil by mere default, you know.

[arcadian]

6. You don't think it's propaganda?

I for got so many on DU have a hard on for the military.

[jobycom]

15. Jumping on DUers you know nothing about for things they haven't said?

[Cid_B]

46. I saved that one... nt

[pitohui]

7. it's sorta propaganda but who cares? e njoy it for what it is

it's like that movie they made in the late 70s or early 80s on the nimitz about how the nimitz goes back in time or some such shit to win world war 2 (been too many years now) -- okay, it was pretty ridiculous and obv. navy propaganda but for crap's sake it was just a movie, enjoy the popcorn and don't let it turn your head

[arcadian]

8. I love it when my government wraps up lies in warm fluffy pillows.

:D

[RamboLiberal]

29. FYI - The Final Countdown

From a Martin Caidin book. Interesting movie. Good cast, Kirk Douglas, Martin Sheen, James Faretino. The Nimitz was accidentally sent back in time by a freaky storm. While they agonized about changing history & stopping the Pearl Harbor attacks of course the freaky storm returns & stops them by returning them back to their time period. Still a movie I enjoyed and if I happen to see it while channel flipping I'll usually sit back to watch the interesting parts.

And getting back to the original post - those Norad reports have been around since I was a kid 50 years ago. I enjoyed them then. I say chill, it's just a Christmas gig.

[MiniMe]

33. Well, close. That isn't why they went back

And the only reason that they "might" have done something is because they knew the history of what was about to happen. I actually liked the movie.

[RandomThoughts]

9. don't forget

It also shows the surveillance state at work.

[hack89]

12. Yea - if they can track Santa they can track anyone. nt

[Fumesucker]

37. Rudolph's nose emits a great deal of infrared..

That's how NORAD tracks Santa, they have satellite based infrared sensors for tracking missile launches.

One of my grandkids asked me that one and that's what I told her.

[arcadian]

17. My problem is with the sponsorship.

Booz Allen Hamilton. I'm willing to wager the "good clean fun" crowd that have responded to this have no idea who they are.

[RandomThoughts]

34. Booz Allen - Reading their web site now

http://www.boozallen.com/
It seems they are a network/synergy type networking organization, giving advice, and connections to government and private sector groups. But that is just from their web page.

http://www.boozallen.com/media/file/AR_2006-7_Helping_Clients.pdf
Definitely one of the companies that is connected a bit to much for a free society not to wonder about. I hope all their dealings and documents are open to journalistic and consumer groups to review.

If you read that page, it is interesting, they got their fingers in Government, military, and private sector, spanning many companies, and countries.

http://www.boozallen.com/media/file/AR_2006-7_People.pdf
A client once described Booz Allen as a firm full of CEOs--people with the confidence, clout, and conviction to chart the right path.

LOL, not the best thing always, CEOs charting the path. LOL

I am sure they are mostly good people, just the ideology of profit/client/consumer gets a bit confined, and consistent. Group mentality can effect any group, even if economic or social. And even if CEOs did not tank the US economy intentionally, CEOs as a group have not had a great track record for public good.

[conscious evolution]

36. BoozAllen sold Gulf War 1

to the american public.
When the BFEE needs someone to market their nefarious schemes their go-to guys are BoozAllen.They are a group of necromancers who specialize in selling war. through black propoganda and other devious methods.

[G_j]

11. it is not unwise to question anything from the military

you are not at all crazy for questioning it.


now, If Santa delivered coal to the WH..

[bushmeister0]

22. Sanat will not be allowed within a two hundred mile exclusion zone around the WH.

Get real!

[earthlover]

13. The kids I saw "track" Santa on this site were not being propagandized....

the ONLY thing on their minds was....duh....Santa!

Advice to the tin foilers: Get. Over. It. Already.

There are enough real problems in this world without making some up.

[arcadian]

14. Yeah, I'm sure they weren't

They are probably a lot more intelligent than you.

[Codeine]

45. Good lord.

You really are a complete asshole, aren't you?

[tammywammy]

16. Yes, Santa clearly works for the government

:tinfoilhat:

[elleng]

18. Wiki says,

'Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience.'

[arcadian]

20. And that is all I said it was.

Shines good light on NORAD = propaganda.

[bushmeister0]

23. Right, unlike on 9/11.

They must have been tracking Santa then, too.

I mean, they were only in the middle of an all out training exersize at the time how could they have een this coming? And it takes a long time to scramble our fighters from . . . um . . . they were already in the air . . . uhmmmm . . . LOOK! There's Santa!

[Vickers]

19. My kids watched some of it last night and had a blast...

...but they were goose-stepping all over the house today while saying "I love the smell of napalm in the morning!"

:(

[bushmeister0]

25. Glad to hear it. Here's some literature on some great careers in the US Air Force!

Get Where You Want To Go.

If you’ve got a high school diploma or are about to earn one, a career is waiting for you in the Air Force. And it’s not all about planes and pilots. We’ve got a career for almost every interest and skill.


http://smashinator.deviantart.com/art/Luftwaffe-Recruiting-Poster-32762520

[emilyg]

21. Get some Christmas spirit in you fast.

[arcadian]

26. I don't have enough $$$ for the Christmas spirit.

:D

[conscious evolution]

27. Propaganda and mind control psyop.

The propaganda aspect doesn't bother me so much.It's the subtle indoctrination into a pattern of illogical thought at such an early age that sends shivers down my spine.It's quite obvious that its sway holds people in its grip for,literally,a lifetime.

[anigbrowl]

30. The post office is in on it too

Accepting letters to Santa is obviously meant as a reminder that the US government controls all the communications. Smash the imperialist state now:
:sarcasm:

[BreweryYardRat]

28. You're worrying too much.

Relax. It's Christmas. If you're going to fight with your family, at least do it over personal issues!

[TahitiNut]

31. I'm still upset that Santa didn't stop in Tahiti.

:cry: :cry:

[1]

32. you have a problem that little children believe that santa is going to drop off some gifts...

little children believe this?

and you have a problem with this?

you might want to recalibrate your thoughts on this matter, bud.


the little children are fine in believing in santa.

you? your notions about life may be a bit askew. you might want to take a serious look at that.

[neverforget]

35. My 4 year old wants to enlist tomorrow. I told her she has to wait until she's 18.

I never knew that Santa Claus was a tool of the US government. Here I thought it was just a story to crush little kids hearts when they found out he doesn't exist :eyes:

[Marrah_G]

38. I don't find it to be propaganda

[gollygee]

39. My 6-year-old liked it and didn't have a clue what NORAD was

I'm quite sure she doesn't know the names of any military bases either.

[lonestarnot]

40. Something about the whole idea is offensive, so yeah, propaganda.

Image is everything. "Can't be all you can be when you're dead."

[Chemical Bill]

41. Propaganda.

I would hope that everyone here would recognize it for what it is, even if one enjoys sharing it with one's 6 year old. I drive to work, even though I know that people die in Iraq every day for the oil. NORAD propaganda is hardly in the same league as our dependence on oil, but it is propaganda.

Bill

[Bandit]

42. I feel sorry for your BIL

You sound like you need some therapy. On this issue you are most definitely out to lunch..And by the way the Military is not all bad..I personally am very thankful for them..

[CreekDog]

43. Oh this is about 947th on my list of concerns

you are right on principle (perhaps). i'm not going to lose any sleep over this nor put any effort into doing anything about it because that would take away from some more meaningful use of my time.

not to criticize you, it's just how i think about this.

[ogneopasno]

44. I think it's possible to think it's a cute idea AND understand what the military is capable of doing

-- both at the same time. I don't think it's worth having an argument over, however.