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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:04 PM
Original message
Are you ready for guerilla warfare? Look who's got their guard up.
This report from two days ago:


Ariz. police say they are prepared as War College warns military must prep for unrest; IMF warns of economic riots

A new report by the U.S. Army War College talks about the possibility of Pentagon resources and troops being used should the economic crisis lead to civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks.

“Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security,” said the War College report.

The study says economic collapse, terrorism and loss of legal order are among possible domestic shocks that might require military action within the U.S.

International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn warned Wednesday of economy-related riots and unrest in various global markets if the financial crisis is not addressed and lower-income households are hurt by credit constraints and rising unemployment.

U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., and U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., both said U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson brought up a worst-case scenario as he pushed for the Wall Street bailout in September. Paulson, former Goldman Sachs CEO, said that might even require a declaration of martial law, the two noted.


http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/12/15/daily34.html



I doubt Paulson came up with this conclusion on his own this past September. He could have surmised the perfect storm brewing from a similar scenario published in May of this year:

Do you need to stock up the bunker?

By Brendan O'Neill

Barton M Biggs is about as far as you can get from the old John Rambo-style survivalist. Forget long, unkempt hair and a sweat-stained vest. Mr Biggs is a former chief global strategist for Morgan Stanley, who now runs the hedge fund Traxis Partners in New York.

Yet in his latest book, Wealth, War and Wisdom, he suggests that all right-minded people should "assume the possibility of a breakdown of the civilised infrastructure".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7379741.stm



And then just last month, the explicit forecast of "criminal guerilla groups" in the wake of the meltdown:

Danger Room Debrief: How to do Defense, When the Money's Gone

The current global economic and financial meltdown may yet become something worse: a protracted global depression. As with the last century's Depression, which spawned fascism and WWII, it could recast the world at a fundamental level. As such, it may soon represent our biggest security challenge in over 50 years. Here's what a global depression means:

A proliferation of hollow nation-states globally. Rampant financial bankruptcy -- the double digit percentage growth in the U.S. national debt late this year bode danger here. Entrenched corruption -- think government employees unused to financial deprivation not getting paid except by graft. An inability to govern territory and a general loss of legitimacy. A global swiss cheese effect from Mexico to Pakistan, where thousands of small holes in the global security system appear with rapidity.

A rapid increase in the number and power of criminal guerilla groups that will challenge nation-states. These groups will flourish within the ungoverned spaces that emerge, particularly in urban areas and even within the U.S. The combination of access to global markets, rapidly improving technology, and new methods of warfare mean that these groups will be ascendant militarily until successful strategies emerge to counter them.

Worst of all, these criminal guerrilla groups (collectively known as global guerrillas) will be able to generate wealth via transnational criminal networks and control political services to local populations (through both disruption and parasitically draining national infrastructures), gaining legitimacy that nation-states will not be able to provide. This means that these groups will not only emerge quickly, they will grow stronger over time.


http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/11/unsolicited-a-2.html


Kind of ironic that the same gun-nut, McVeigh-inspired, U.N.-phobic militias that hardly let out a peep these past eight years that Cheney and the rest of the BFEE ran wild handing out no-bid contracts to their friends in Iraq; who probably would be the first to start "criminal guerilla groups" against President B. Hussein Obama in the name of "freedom"; :eyes: would probably be the first American detainees to arrive at KBR's $385 million detention centers for "unlawful enemy combatants."

American Prison Camps Are on the Way

By Marjorie Cohn, AlterNet. Posted October 9, 2006.

Kellogg Brown & Root, a Halliburton subsidiary, is constructing a huge facility at an undisclosed location to hold tens of thousands of Bush's "unlawful enemy combatants." Americans are certain to be among them.

In 1944, the Supreme Court upheld the legality of the internment of Japanese and Japanese-American citizens in Korematsu v. United States. Justice Robert Jackson warned in his dissent that the ruling would "lie about like a loaded weapon ready for the hand of any authority that can bring forward a plausible claim of an urgent need."

That day has come with the Military Commissions Act of 2006. It provides the basis for the President to round-up both aliens and U.S. citizens he determines have given material support to terrorists. Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Cheney's Halliburton, is constructing a huge facility at an undisclosed location to hold tens of thousands of undesirables.


http://www.alternet.org/rights/42458/

14. Homeland Security Contracts KBR to Build Detention Centers in the US
in Top 25 Censored Stories for 2007



Sources:
New America Media, January 31, 2006
Title: “Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps”
Author: Peter Dale Scott

New America Media, February 21, 2006
Title: “10-Year US Strategic Plan for Detention Camps Revives Proposals from Oliver North”
Author: Peter Dale Scott

Consortiium, February 21, 2006
Title: “Bush’s Mysterious ‘New Programs’”
Author: Nat Parry

Buzzflash
Title: “Detention Camp Jitters”
Author: Maureen Farrell

Community Evaluator: Dr. Gary Evans
Student Researchers: Sean Hurley and Caitlyn Peele

Halliburton’s subsidiary KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root) announced on January 24, 2006 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps in the United States.

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/14-homeland-security-contracts-kbr-to-build-detention-centers-in-the-us/
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, I read this on another site. I don't put much stock in it,
although I think Michigan will continue to suffer for some time.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That was probably Matt Savinar.
My apologies to him for not posting the credit in my OP:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

Do you not put much stock in the military-industrial complex overreacting to the possibility of armed insurrection, or just the possibility that such groups may form?
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think they're overreacting.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. It's not just here in Michigan, it's Ohio, Indiana and Western Pa as well.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. You mean the kinds of riots we had like in the Great Depression?
The ones most history teachers ignore?

The ones where even the JCOS took personal command off (the best known and actually covered?)

I should remember NOT to open those dusty and musty history books. Bad for the asthma you know
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Sorry for your asthma, but allow me to open a dusty history lesson most teachers ignore.
The self-named Bonus Expeditionary Force was an assemblage of some 43,000 marchers — 17,000 World War I veterans, their families, and affiliated groups, who protested in Washington, D.C., in spring and summer of 1932. Called the Bonus March by the news media, the Bonus Marchers were more popularly known as the Bonus Army. The war veterans sought immediate, cash payment of Service Certificates granted them eight years earlier via the Adjusted Service Certificate Law of 1924. Each Service Certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment, plus compound interest. The problem was that the certificates (like bonds), matured twenty years from the date of original issuance, thus, under extant law, the Service Certificates were un-redeemable until 1945.

The Bonus Army was led by Walter W. Waters, a former Army sergeant, and were encouraged in their demand for immediate cash-payment redemption of their service certificates by retired U.S.M.C. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, one of the most popular military figures of the time.

snip

The U.S. Army intervenes
On the 28th of July 1932, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the police evacuation of the Bonus Army veterans, who resisted; the police shot at them, and killed two. When told of the killings, President Hoover ordered the U.S. Army to effect the evacuation of the Bonus Army from Washington, D.C.

At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, Fort Myer, Virginia, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of Civil Service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans. The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honour, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton charged the cavalry against them — an action which prompted the Civil Service employee spectators to yell: "Shame! Shame!" against the charging cavalry.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

What occurred then is what I fear: the overreaction by the military, not the protestors. Although if the protest takes the form of wingnut militia traitors, I hope they get what they deserve.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. MacArthur and Patton- color me surprised
No one seems to get it, though. It's like they think there's an invisible wall protecting them from the Military.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Eisenhower, too. And this is how promotions are effected.
In general, in authoritarian and corporate structures you get promoted because you display conformity and ruthlessness in service to power. Colin Powell trying to cover up My Lai and going on to the White House, then trying to cover up Iran-Contra and going on to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs: these are not aberrations. These are the episodes in which Powell demonstrated he had the most important qualification.

This is why getting policy "wrong" over and over is such a plus in getting your next appointment, like all the bankers and war sellers in the White House and Pentagon musical chairs appointments game.

Do the right thing, you may get praised, but forget about your career. Like Li Peng vs. Zhao Zhiyang, if anyone remembers that. When did this become a universal principle?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Correct, you can bet that PFC Darbee's career was over
the moment he approached JAG

And I was told of a SEAL Captain that refused to obey illegal orders at Fallujah

He was slated to make Adm. He retired after much grief

No name...scuttlebutt, but given the patterns...there is reason to believe that one
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. That's the best known indeed
just that some folks round these parts hate musty history books
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. Massacre? History books are overreacting.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Known Unknowns: Unconventional "Strategic Shocks" in Defense Strategy Development
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 03:29 PM by seemslikeadream
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. You know that I do SLAD
We've always been on the same paranoid page together. I like the company.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Ahem. I listen to you.


We are lucky: seemslikeadream always has a lot to say that's vitally important to hear, f'r instance.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Pretend the dove from above is a dragon and your feet are on fire"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqLssKusGzM

"Girl In The War"



Peter said to Paul
"All those words that we wrote
Are just the rules of the game and the rules are the first to go"
But now talkin' to God is Laurel beggin' Hardy for a gun
I gotta girl in the war, man I wonder what it is we done

Paul said to Petey
"You gotta rock yourself a little harder;
Pretend the dove from above is a dragon and your feet are on fire"
And I got a girl in the war, Paul the only thing I know to do
Is turn up the music and pray that she makes it through

Because the keys to the kingdom got locked inside the kingdom
And the angels fly around in there, but we can't see them

And I gotta girl in the war, Paul I know that they can hear me yell
If they can't find a way to help, they can go to Hell
If they can't find a way to help her, they can go to Hell

Paul to Petey "you gotta rock yourself a little harder;
Pretend the dove from above is a dragon and your feet are on fire"
But I gotta girl in the war, Paul her eyes are like champagne
They sparkle, bubble over, in the morning all you got is rain
Sparkle, bubble over, in the morning all you got is rain
They sparkle, bubble over, in the morning all you got is rain
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Have I told you lately that you rock?
:yourock:

:loveya:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ramping up the rhetoric for the next $350 billion Take. Congress better pay up or...
They'll pay them off, and with no oversight written in either.

I guess they know these particular protection racketeers make good on their threats.
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lifesbeautifulmagic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. it would be better if they just asked corporations to consider
their employees for a change (rather than their investors). Stop the job cuts at profitable companies, and stop replacing employees with non benefited, contract labor.

otherwise, what are we supposed to do, starve?
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Beausoleil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. It should be noted that
"civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks"

is equated with

"Widespread civil violence"
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Our tree is nearly dead.

We have an opportunity to change course. We have reached what is likely our last chance to avoid what history shows as an inevitable outcome of the course we have followed for a generation or more.

Will our "leaders" accommodate this cry for change, or will they simply try some cosmetic tweaking and platitudes?


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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. The IMF knows riots
They've caused enough of them, the skeevy bastards.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Ya
Hard to call who is the worst Terror Organization in the world...but it's clear that most of them are "respected" groups.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Translated:
Shoot the uppity, brown poor people so that we can live another day to eat caviar.

These people really are pathetic. They also seem to know that the American people would rather die than be put in detention centers.

They're shitting their pants because they will have millions of angry people in cities with nowhere to go.
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cabluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. And LOTS of guns too !!!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Greece.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Exactly.
Greece riots: timeline How Greece's worst civil disturbances in decades unfolded

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/08/greece
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. Guerrillas for World War III
Gee. Martial law to protect the criminal class. Who'd a thunk we were living in NAZI times?



Guerrillas for World War III

excerpted from the book

Blowback
America's recruitment of Nazis,
and its disastrous effect on our domestic and foreign policy


by Christopher Simpson
Collier / Macmillan, 1988

p138
The Vlasov Army and Waffen SS veterans from Eastern Europe worked hard to integrate themselves into the evolving U.S. nuclear weapons strategy during the cold war years. Colonel Philp and General Gehlen, it will be recalled, began as early as the winter of 1945-1946 to use German officers and refugees from the East to gather information about military construction behind Soviet lines. Each time the location of a new Soviet military site was confirmed, word of its location was passed to a special U.S. Air Force office at the Pentagon whose job was the selection of targets slated for atomic annihilation.

As U.S. atomic planning grew more sophisticated, the role of émigrés in America's nuclear war-fighting strategy expanded quickly. By late 1948 paramilitary expert General Robert McClure had won the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff to approval of a full-scale program of guerrilla warfare that was to follow any U.S. nuclear strike on the USSR. From then until at least 1956, when this strategy was at the height of its popularity in U.S. command circles, preparations for post-World War III guerrilla insurgencies employed thousands of émigrés from the USSR. Pentagon documents show that Vlasov veterans and Waffen SS men played a major role in these underground armies. Considering the wartime record of these forces, there is reason to suspect that a number of these enlistees may have been war criminals.

These émigrés did not, of course, create U.S. nuclear strategy. The advent of atomic weapons and their impact on international affairs would have taken place with or without the use of former Nazis and collaborators in U.S. war planning. The exile soldiers simply rode the coattails of the movement toward reliance on nuclear weapons during the late 1940s and early 1950s. In many cases they themselves were not aware of what the Pentagon had in mind for them. The integration of these groups into even the most humble levels of U.S. nuclear planning, however, gave the military and intelligence agencies a powerful reason to conceal the Nazi pasts of their unusual troops.

The process of integrating ex-Nazi emigre groups into U.S. nuclear operations may be traced at least to early 1947, when General Hoyt Vandenberg became the first chief of staff of the newly independent U.S. Air Force. Vandenberg had commanded the Ninth Air Force in Europe during World War II, then been tapped to head the Central Intelligence Group, the immediate predecessor to the CIA, in 1946. Among the general's responsibilities at the air force was the development of written plans describing strategies and tactics for the use of America's new nuclear weapons in the event of war.

"Vandenberg had a clear idea about just how he thought a nuclear war was going to be fought," argues retired Colonel Fletcher Prouty, who was a senior aide to the air force chief of staff in the 1940s and later the top liaison man between the Pentagon and the CIA. " knew that if there was a nuclear exchange in those days-and we are talking about atomic bombs, now, not H-bombs- you would destroy the communications and lifeblood of a country but the country would still exist. It would just be rubble. People would be wandering around wanting to know who was boss and where the food was coming from and so forth, but the country would still be there." Therefore, the U.S. thinking went, "we must begin to create independent communications centers inside the Soviet Union and begin to pull it together for our ends."

The army, air force, and CIA all began competing programs to prepare for the post-nuclear battlefield. This included creation of what eventually came to be called the Special Forces-better known today as the Green Berets-in the army and the air resupply and communications wings in the air force. The job of these units, Prouty explains, was to set up anti-Communist political leaders backed up by guerrilla armies inside the USSR and Eastern Europe in the wake of an atomic war, capture political power in strategic I sections of the country, choke off any remaining Communist resistance, and ensure that the Red Army could not regroup for a counterattack.

p146
In 1950 CIC and CIA agents used the Labor Services cover to begin guerrilla training of at least 100 members of the far-rightwing League of Young Germans (Bund Deutscher Jungen, or BDJ). These "Young Germans" were no Boy Scouts; most were Waffen SS and Wehrmacht veterans, according to a later West German government investigation, and a considerable part of the leadership of the group had been enthusiastic "Jew baiters" in the Goebbels ministry during the Nazis' rule.

The budget for the clandestine group was 50,000 deutsche marks per month, according to records seized by German police in 1952, plus an ample supply of free arms, ammunition, and explosives cached in the Odenwald Hills south of Frankfurt. American and German advisers provided BDJ agents with extensive military instruction, including, as a report in the West German parliament later revealed, "use of Russian, United States and German weapons, including machine guns, grenades, and knives . . . light infantry weapons and explosives." The underground group called itself a U.S. "Technical Service" unit.'

But the training program was only the beginning. BDJ Technical Service leaders decided that the best thing they could do for Germany following a Soviet attack was to liquidate certain German leaders they regarded as insufficiently anti-Communist. German Communists were, of course, at the top of the Technical Service assassination list. Next in line for elimination were leaders of West Germany's Social Democratic party, the country's loyal opposition during the Adenauer administration. The Technical Service group planned to murder more than forty top Social Democratic officials, including the party's national chief, Erich Ollenhauer; the interior minister of the state of Hesse, Heinrich Zinnkann; and the mayors of Hamburg and Bremen. BDJ's U.S.-trained underground infiltrated the Social Democrats to shadow individual party leaders so as to kill them more efficiently when the day to act arrived.

The plot unraveled in late 1952, however, when a chance arrest by local police led to discovery of the hit list of Social Democratic officials. The CIC's behavior following this accidental exposure was so compromising that it raised serious questions in the German parliament whether the U.S. government was aware of the Technical Service unit's assassination plans all along. Then again, perhaps the CIC response to the arrests was just stupid, not a conspiratorial cover-up. Either way, American CIC officers took custody of the arrested BDJ members and proceeded to hide them from the German civil police, who intended to charge the "Young Germans" with numerous weapons violations and conspiracy to commit murder. The German chief of the Technical Service unit, an ex-Luftwaffe man named Gerhard Peters, was placed under wraps for almost two weeks in a U.S.-requisitioned building that was off-limits to German civil authorities. U.S. CIC agents also seized all the remaining Technical Service records that they could lay their hands on, then refused to turn the dossiers over to the German equivalent of the FBI.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Guerrillas_B_CS.html



Thank you for another very important post, robertpaulsen. It is becoming clear that these turds have looted the Treasury, robbed and penured the People, and are working on enslaving our children and our children's children. They need the Pentagon to hold a rear-guard action as they head for Paraguay, Switzerland and wherever else they have their Doomsday redoubts.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Great example! Here's another from the Great Depression: The White House Coup.
Or The Business Plot:

The Business Plot (also the Plot Against FDR and the White House Putsch) was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933 wherein wealthy businessmen and corporations plotted a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 1934, the Business Plot was publicly revealed by retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testifying to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional Committee. <1> In his testimony, Butler claimed that a group of men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a military coup. One of the alleged plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their final report, the Congressional committee supported Butler's allegations of the existence of the plot,<2> but no prosecutions or further investigations followed, and the matter was mostly forgotten.

Background

On July 17, 1932, thousands of World War I veterans converged on Washington, D.C., set up tent camps, and demanded immediate payment of bonuses due them according to the Adjusted Service Certificate Law of 1924. This "Bonus Army" was led by Walter W. Waters, a former Army sergeant. The Army was encouraged by an appearance from retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler, who had considerable influence over the veterans, being one of the most popular military figures of the time. A few days after Butler's arrival, President Herbert Hoover ordered the marchers removed, and their camps were destroyed by US Army cavalry troops under the command of General Douglas MacArthur.

Butler, although a self-described Republican, responded by supporting Roosevelt in that year's election.<3>

In a 1995 History Today article Clayton Cramer argued that the devastation of the Great Depression had caused many Americans to question the foundations of liberal democracy. "Many traditionalists, here and in Europe, toyed with the ideas of Fascism and National Socialism; many liberals dallied with Socialism and Communism." Cramer argues that this explains why some American business leaders viewed fascism as a viable system to both preserve their interests and end the economic woes of the Depression.<4>

snip

McCormack-Dickstein Committee

The events testified to in the McCormack-Dickstein Committee happened between July and November 1933. The Committee began examining evidence a year later, on November 20, 1934. On November 24 the committee released a statement detailing the testimony it had heard about the plot and its preliminary findings. On February 15, 1935, the committee submitted to the House of Representatives its final report.<20> The McCormack-Dickstein Committee was the precursor to the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC); its materials are archived with those of the HUAC.

During the McCormack-Dickstein Committee hearings, Butler testified that through MacGuire and Bill Doyle, who was then the department commander of the American Legion in Massachusetts,<29> the conspirators attempted to recruit him to lead a coup, promising him an army of 500,000 men for a march on Washington, D.C., $30 million in financial backing,<30> and generous media spin control.

BUTLER: I said, "The idea of this great group of soldiers, then, is to sort of frighten him, is it?"
"No, no, no; not to frighten him. This is to sustain him when others assault him."
I said, "Well, I do not know about that. How would the President explain it?"
He said: "He will not necessarily have to explain it, because we are going to help him out. Now, did it ever occur to you that the President is overworked? We might have an Assistant President, somebody to take the blame; and if things do not work out, he can drop him."
He went on to say that it did not take any constitutional change to authorize another Cabinet official, somebody to take over the details of the office-take them off the President's shoulders. He mentioned that the position would be a secretary of general affairs-a sort of a supersecretary.
CHAIRMAN: A secretary of general affairs?
BUTLER: That is the term used by him-or a secretary of general welfare-I cannot recall which. I came out of the interview with that name in my head. I got that idea from talking to both of them, you see . They had both talked about the same kind of relief that ought to be given the President, and he said: "You know, the American people will swallow that. We have got the newspapers. We will start a campaign that the President's health is failing. Everybody can tell that by looking at him, and the dumb American people will fall for it in a second."<31>

Despite Butler's support for Roosevelt in the election,<3> and his reputation as a strong critic of capitalism, Butler said the plotters felt his good reputation and popularity were vital in attracting support amongst the general public, and saw him as easier to manipulate than others.

Butler said he spoke for thirty minutes with Gerald C. MacGuire. In attempting to recruit Butler, MacGuire may have played on the general's loyalty toward his fellow veterans. Knowing of an upcoming bonus in 1935 for World War I veterans, Butler said MacGuire told him, "We want to see the soldiers' bonus paid in gold. We do not want the soldier to have rubber money or paper money." Such names as Al Smith, Roosevelt's political foe and former governor of New York, and Irénée du Pont, a chemical industrialist, were said to be the financial and organizational backbone of the plot. Butler stated that once the conspirators were in power, they would protect Roosevelt from other plotters.<32>

Given a successful coup, Butler said that the plan was for him to have held near-absolute power in the newly created position of "Secretary of General Affairs," while Roosevelt would have assumed a figurehead role.

Reaction to Butler's testimony by the media and business elite was dismissive or hostile. The majority of media outlets, including The New York Times, Philadelphia Post,<33> and Time Magazine ridiculed or downplayed his claims, saying they lacked evidence. After the committee concluded, The New York Times and Time Magazine downplayed the conclusions of the committee.<34>

The committee deleted extensive excerpts from the report relating to Wall Street financiers including J.P. Morgan & Co., the Du Pont interests, Remington Arms, and others allegedly involved in the plot attempt. As of 1975, a full transcript of the hearings had yet to be traced.<35>

Those accused of the plotting by Butler all denied any involvement. MacGuire was the only figure identified by Butler who testified before the committee. Others involved were actually called to appear to testify, though never were forced to testify.

snip

Final resolution

The Congressional committee report confirmed Butler's testimony (emphasis added):

In the last few weeks of the committee's official life it received evidence showing that certain persons had made an attempt to establish a fascist government in this country...There is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.
This committee received evidence from Maj. Gen Smedley D. Butler (retired), twice decorated by the Congress of the United States. He testified before the committee as to conversations with one Gerald C. MacGuire in which the latter is alleged to have suggested the formation of a fascist army under the leadership of General Butler.<45>
MacGuire denied these allegations under oath, but your committee was able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler, with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence of MacGuire with his principal, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various forms of veterans organizations of Fascist character.<46>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot



It should not surprise anyone that one of the plotters of this coup attempt was none other than Dubya's grandfather, Prescott Bush.


White House Coup: Smedley Butler and Prescott Bush

In 1934, Marine Major General Smedley Butler told Congress, according to Wikipedia, that a group of wealthy industrialists had plotted a military coup known as the Business Plot to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Wikipedia:


In a 1995 History Today article Clayton Cramer argued that the devastation of the Great Depression had caused many Americans to question the foundations of liberal democracy. "Many traditionalists, here and in Europe, toyed with the ideas of Fascism and National Socialism; many liberals dallied with Socialism and Communism." Cramer argues that this explains why some American business leaders viewed fascism as a viable system to both preserve their interests and end the economic woes of the Depression.

Prescott Bush is George Bush's grandfather. Wikipedia continues:


On July 23, 2007, the BBC Radio 4 series Document reported on the alleged Business Plot and the archives from the McCormack-Dickstein Committee hearings. The program mentioned Bush's directorship of the Hamburg-America Line, a company that the committee investigated for Nazi propaganda activities, and the alleged 1933 attempt, supposedly led by Gerald MacGuire, to stage a military coup against President Franklin D. Roosevelt aimed at forcing Roosevelt to resign (or, failing that, to assassinate him) and at installing a fascist dictatorship in the United States.


http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/36409

Thanks for that link, Octafish. Looks like a good book, hope I can find a copy.
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Top 12 more examples
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 11:31 AM
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30. k&r'd; also, great info in replies in this thread, e.g., #'s 23 & 22.
Edited on Sat Dec-20-08 11:31 AM by snot
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