Know What? A Pastor At A Party Is NOT A POLICY

[matcom]

Look people. Obama is PRESIDENT ELECT of a NATION of people. Some of those people think like you and me and some think we are the very Devil.

That is fact.

Let's put a couple of things in perspective: Obama is a Black Man who will be President. That is crazy to some, insulting to others and joyous to the rest of us for many reasons. He was labeled as the most Liberal Senator (rightly or wrongly) by the RW. My local RW radio freak (who was a political hack for Bush 1 and thinks Nixon got a raw deal), said 8 months ago that Obama could "Never win because this country isn't ready for a Black President. That mouth-breather actually was PULLING for Hillary to win because he was so terrified of what he called a "Black Panther President".

He has had to eat his words on more than one occasion.

There are people in this country who are for "Civil Unions" instead of "Gay Marriage". There are people in this country who are against Gay Rights COMPLETELY. I personally don't fall into either of those camps and believe Gay Rights are HUMAN Rights. I personally REJECT those who are anti-gay but I DON'T reject those who are for, what they call, a compromise. THOSE people IMHO can still be persuaded. The fact that they HAVE to be "persuaded" is somewhat sad in itself but that is the reality of life currently. The struggle for Blacks and Women to get the right to vote took decades of 'ups and downs'. In the end, sanity prevailed. It isn't called a "struggle" for nothing. It ain't easy.

Back to the dickhead Rick Warren. As an atheist, I PERSONALLY reject ALL prayer at political events. I am an atheist because I don't find ANY religion accepting of everybody. Hell, Rev. Wright said some things I strongly agree with but I don't think for a moment he isn't racist as well. If you find a pro-gay pastor to attend, that pastor will likely be against some other group. Nobody will ever win and nobody will ever be truly happy. I.E. LIFE.

Back to Obama. The example of my local RW mouth-breather above tells me some things. Obama, being black and (supposedly) being Liberal, means that the ice he treads on is 1000 times thinner than his predecessors. Maybe 100,000 times thinner. These freaks have been preaching everything. I have even heard one talk-show host discussing the possibility of "White Slavery" as the coming apocalypse. You have to be shitting me. Bigotry will always have 'legs' during my lifetime. I hope that changes someday. *sigh*

Rick Warren is a piece of shit in my atheist world but so is Rev. Jackson, Rev. Write, Rev. Smith and anyone else who invokes their 'God' during my President's political party. But I realize I am a minority and frankly, I'm ok with that. I realize that Obama's ice is thinner than any other and he is under a bigger microscope than anyone in history. If Obama (or any other President) stood on that stage after being elected and proudly stated that he/she was an atheist and it is now the policy of the United States that there is no God, he wouldn't live to make it off that stage.

If Rick Warren gets up on the stage and tells the world how much he personally hates gay people and that Obama agrees with him, and that Obama has pledged to eradicate all gay people tomorrow by rebuilding Auschwitz, that will be POLICY. If he gets up and says a prayer, I won't agree or frankly care that much. The alternative (which would please me most) of NOT saying some kind of Christian prayer, would ensure Obama likely wouldn't make to the end of his term.

A pastor is NOT policy. Even though Obama isn't that thrilled with Gay Marriage (as he has stated before - you KNEW this ahead of time), doesn't mean he will ban it/squash it/veto it/kill it/piss on it.

I PROUDLY voted for Barack. I will PROUDLY protest him when the time is right. I will PROUDLY praise him when the time is right. Much of the rest is window dressing.

To my gay friends: Keep up the fight. It WILL come sooner rather than later and there is a better chance of SOONER now that Dems are in control. They won't all agree with you and me but our voices are loud. If you are against abortion, don't have one. If you are against Gays, don't be gay (yes I realize it isn't a choice). You get my point.

Rick Warren is a piece of shit. If he weren't doing it there would be some other piece of shit up there. Obama isn't attending his church and he hasn't asked Warren for policy advice (think Billy Grahm - another piece of shit). The dude is going to say a 30 second prayer.

A pastor isn't a policy. Criticize the policy. Hopefully you/we won't have to very often.

I know this will turn into a flame war so after you are done generating a thousand replies, go out and rip the bumper stickers off your cars and tear down your yard signs and anything else that makes you feel cheated/lied to/disappointed. I'll be here, reading and waiting for Obama to actually take office. I'll be waiting for the worst disaster of my lifetime to vacate MY house. I'll be watching 2 beautiful girls and a beautiful wife to move into MY house with an amazing man who is my President.

I'll agree with most of what he does (I hope). I'll disagree with some of what he does (a fact). I'm prepared to do both. I'm going to choose to focus on what he DOES. The rest is just a bullshit prayer as far as I'm concerned.


PEACE.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Lets get Rev Phelps up there too.

At what level of hate do you say no?

[matcom]

2. put him up there as well

I don't listen to ANY of them

[gollygee]

3. Maybe he should find some Grand Wizard to stand up there

He knew how Warren felt and chose him. It had to be deliberate. I can't see how he didn't do it to send a message: "It's OK, conservative people, I don't really like gay people either."

And no, it didn't have to be another "piece of shit". He could have chosen a white Christian male who is pro-gay rights and pro women-rights. They do exist. Would Bush have chosen a pro-gay rights pro-choice minister to make the left happy? No. Why does Obama choose this guy to make the right happy? He didn't have to.

[matcom]

4. they don't exist

if they were pro-gay and pro-women they would likely be anti-animal adoption

[gollygee]

6. I personally know a pro gay rights pro-women rights white male pastor

Maybe I should give Obama a call? But he wouldn't choose a UCC minister, would he, because he is trying to look less liberal. And pro human rights is different than other issues that come up.

[matcom]

10. what is that pastor's stance on animal adoption?

does he support Circus Clowns? Unions? is he perhaps anti-global warming?

is he on the 'National Stage' as is unfortunately required these days to appease the 'Christian Masses'?

Look, Obama has been fighting the Muslim charge for months now. I'm not happy about THAT either but he had to do it to get elected.

[gollygee]

Human rights issues are not the same as other issues

He couldn't have found anyone who would make everyone happy, but he could have not made this particular statement about human rights.

[WilliamPitt]

12. Nice post, Hitler

:P

[matcom]

14. NICE!

:D

:thumbsup:

[Leftest]

49. When you have to employ strawmen

Your argument is a losing one. n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

67. You're just being an ass

[WilliamPitt]

72. I'm shocked, shocked that gambling is going on in this establishment.

:crazy:

[saracat]

5. May I remind you that Warren displays the exact same level of contempt for your beautiful

wife and girls and thinks that they ought not to have full civil rights either? Perhaps you ought to think twice about the PE legitimizing or respecting those viewpoints at a "State Occasion".

I am really confounded that you rethink this is a preacher speaking at a "party" . He will be calling on God on behalf of our nation. And when he prays that the president receive guidance, he is praying in "our name " that women and the GBTL Community be suppressed.

I don't think it is respectful to your wife and daughters to be supportive of this even if you don't believe in God.

[matcom]

7. I am WELL aware and I don't have daughters

the fact that he is 'invoking God' in my name at all offends me personally. the fact that he holds my wife in that regard makes him a piece of shit. the fact is I don't have to give 2 shits about him one way or the other.

[saracat]

23. Sorry. I misread. You were referring to Obama's wife and girls. And even more shame on him that he

would insult them so.And of course you don't have to "care" but his contempt for any of our people is contempt for us all in my opinion.

[gizmo1979]

86. I didn't vote for Warren don't like

him won't listen to him.I'm not going to condemn my president because for some reason he picked this person to yak for two minutes,I'm not the church going type,he'll make it up to you some way or another.Have faith he won't let you down.Obama is a good man just give him a little more time.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Don't bother.

Oh, P.S., has it occured to anyone that Obama's political position is enhanced by this move, because it proves he isn't a prisoner of his base's demands? The last president was a prisoner of his base. They lost. Hmmm...

Might help get some Southern votes in the Senate for his jobs bill. That bastard.

P.P.S. Don't bother.

[matcom]

11. I know.

Just decided to vent in this ever decreasing 'legitimate' web site.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Hey, I got called a "bigot apologist" about an hour ago.

Usually I have to pay good money for that kind of abuse.

So there's that.

;)

[matcom]

18. I think you should go rip off your bumper sticker right now!

you have been betrayed!

:rofl:

[WilliamPitt]

22. But it's wrapped around my...uh...naughty bits

and I just washed my hair.

Darksided.

*rip*

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

[matcom]

25. that's called 'Manscaping'

:rofl:

[WilliamPitt]

26. I call it "Ow."

[scheming daemons]

27. It's contagious......

If you're deemed to not be sufficiently pissed at Obama, you're a nazi.

[semillama]

47. "oh, I'm Sorry!"

"This is Abuse! Argument is down the Hall!"

[Warren Stupidity]

16. a prisoner of his base's demands

yeah I see what you mean. After all of the concessions he has made to the left over the last few months, with all of those cabinet appointments and major executive positions going to progressives, he was totally in danger of being perceived as "a prisoner of his base's demands".

I'm so sorry to see you rise up to defend the indefensible. You are better than this.

[WilliamPitt]

19. Am I?

Who knew?

[Warren Stupidity]

21. I guess not.

too bad.

[mecherosegarden]

9. Thanks!

:applause: :applause: :applause:


I agree with you !

[Orsino]

13. Worse than a policy, perhaps.

It's ammo for all the bigots for years to come, and can't be challenged in court.

Saying "it's not a policy" is just another dodge, I'm afraid, that amounts to "get over it."

[matcom]

17. yup.

get over it.

it is meaningless for now

[Orsino]

30. Let's not tell other people what meaning it has for them, please. n/t

[matcom]

32. I certainly will when it IS meaningless

when it becomes MEANINGFUL, I'll be back

[Orsino]

35. I once tried to feel that way abut the Confederate flag, too.

One important message the Warren pick sends is that individual liberty is less important than mere popularity. It is not possible for me to dismiss that choice as meaningless.

It reinforces the wrong-headed belief that civil rights should be voted on.

[Democrats_win]

20. Your commentary is appreciated and respected. However....

As for Obama being on thin ice. You betcha. So was Clinton. We can remember how "Don't ask, don't tell" led to quite a RW temper tantrum that included 3 dollar bills with Clinton's face on it. (Queer as a 3 dollar bill was the bigot's thinking). Certainly Obama should be careful. Guess what. A Greely Colorado mayor got in trouble for distributing 3 dollar bills with Obama's face on it. WTF! I guess we can say, "Shit happens." It had nothing to do with gays, it was just bigotry.

The thing is, the RW has a right to have their say. But what I, and hopefully America, has learned is that they have NO business in our government. Over the past 4 years, that has actually been the AMERICAN way. Isn't that neat?

Rick Warren is not policy, but he's a bad symbol. In religion, the "benediction" symbolizes the end. However, Rick Warren will be giving the beginning prayer. This symbolism SUCKS! That's not a gay thing! I despise the religion that didn't stand up to bush's immoral wars! In fact religion is attached to bush. How in the world can Obama begin his presidency with false religion leading the way.

I say dump Warren. Not just dump him, dump him in the sewer where all Conservative thought has been for the past 15 years! That's what I think of Obama and his terrible awful disloyal choice of false religion beginning his presidency.

[matcom]

24. agree 100%

dump him an DON'T replace him with ANYONE! no prayer would please me more than anything!

however, political suicide.

I'm ok with that. Hell, I'm not even offended.

[Mari333]

28. actually, the Warren choice is feeding their bigotry..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4682771

[matcom]

29. Baptist Press?

:rofl:

[Mari333]

31. yes, hahaha. those silly gay people and their silly struggle for equal rights...

when will they ever learn that is secondary to obama's great vision?
:sarcasm:

[matcom]

34. right. you took THAT from my post

so sorry for you

[Mari333]

36. thats pretty much what i take from any post that supports Warren

sorry, thats just the way it is. so far, the symbolism of this warren pick is huge. it sends one clear message to millions of people..that obama is supportive of Rick Warren's bigotry on many issues. Its as offensive as if Obama had put the Grand Wizard of the KKK up there to many people.

[matcom]

37. where the HELL do you get that I support Warren?

can you not read or do you simply choose NOT to?

[Mari333]

38. settle down. I am glad you dont support warren as a person

but to dismiss lightly his appearance on stage at the invocation is a form of support for the choice of warren.
his appearance WILL send a strong message of support to gay bigots, and thats why I think its far more serious then you are alluding to.

[matcom]

40. I don't frankly care if it DOES

the gay bigots can go fuck themselves. actually, if they end up getting a hard-on over it and Obama does something to further gay rights nationally after getting into office i'll be ROFL for even LONGER!

[Bluebear]

33. Glad you're amused.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PeaceNikki]

41. Surely you understand how people can be hurt/disappointed/offended with Warren's participation...

can't you?

My gay brothers and sisters gave time, money, blood, sweat and tears to the Obama campaign. Not all of them are ripping off bumper stickers and tearing down yard signs but merely expressing their disappointment over the fact that bigotry and hatred are being given a voice.

They have a right to feel betrayed and hurt.

[matcom]

42. of course I do

but I also know that symbolism does NOT equal policy. Look. Obama was ALWAYS up front about his not supporting gay marriage. that makes him wrong IMHO but not a person who can't be swayed. that also doesn't make him anti-gay.

wait until he DOES something either way to form an opinion. I'll be right next to you forming the same. this does NOT indicate policy

[PeaceNikki]

44. Well, we agree about the whole symbolism not equalling policy thing

and that Obama not supporting gay marriage is wrong, but there seems to be this tendency to want to tell people to STFU about their disappointment/hurt/anger over the Warren choice and Obama's stance on gay marriage. There is a LOT of bullshit being thrown around here bitching about how people need to STFU about their "pet issues" and that there are more "important matters" that take precedent.

And, in my eyes, it's horrendously hateful to dismiss their concerns in such a manner.

[matcom]

45. I WILL say it is too early to be disapointed

but i won't call it a "pet issue". it IMHO is an issue for ALL humanity.

It IS too early. this stupid prayer means nothing

[PeaceNikki]

51. The disappointment is because this misogynistic bigot is being given a voice and legitimatized.

I think that's well within reason.

[matcom]

52. yeah, he only sold 100 million books

NOW he is being given a voice

:eyes:

[PeaceNikki]

54. That was entirely without Obama's help.

I didn't think I needed to qualify my statement with "given a voice by Obama".

I didn't come into this thread looking for a fight. I'm hurt/saddened/angry/offended over this Warren pick. I GET why my LGBT brothers and sisters are angry and I am disgusted at the effort on DU to get them to STFU.

[matcom]

55. i get why they are angry too

which is what you don't get.

the bigger picture (or lack there of) isn't going to help the cause however. political neophytes are still neophytes.

[WillParkinson]

95. So...

Because it means nothing to you then it should mean nothing to everyone else?

Oh, got it. I must have missed that memo.

[WritersBlock]

43. Thank you. A thoughtful and well-said post. Rec'd. n/t

[semillama]

46. Right on, brother.

"A pastor isn't a policy" - very nice and concise point!

[ContinentalOp]

48. A lot of things aren't policy. So what?

Using the "n" word isn't policy. Calling somebody Macaca isn't policy. What's your point?

[firedupdem]

50. Thanks..rec'd n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. K&R

[mikelgb]

56. I don't become President of the US at my parties...

maybe a few more shots will do it?

also millions of people around the world don't watch my parties on teevee

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

57. I like you Matcom, but straight people do not have the right

to tell gay people what we are and are not allowed to get upset about.

The pastor is also misogynistic and anti-semitic. Are you prepared to defend those views as well?

[matcom]

59. yes we do

when it comes to common sense, policy and politics. just like you have the right to tell me.

and I haven't defended him at all for anything.

what part of 'piece of shit' did you miss?

[MadHound]

58. So in other words, what you're saying is that we're going to have to pander to a minority,

We're going to have to continue to pander to the RW fundies because Obama is a black man. Well then, if that's the case, we're apparently not going to get a damn thing done since "he ice he treads on is 1000 times thinner than his predecessors" Sorry, but that's utter bullshit(and frankly, vaguely racist bullshit at that). Obama could be white as Vanilla Ice, and simply because he is a Democrat taking office, the rabid right wing would still be demonizing him. And frankly, no matter how much you placate them, no matter how much you pander to them, the rabid, fundie right wing in this country is never going to vote for any Democrat, male, female, black, white, straight or gay simply due to the fact that they are a Democrat. Trying to pander to them is a waste of time, you're not going to get a single vote out of it, nor will they make your time in office any easier. What you will do is throw a large part of your constituency under the bus, alienate the hell out of them, and lose their votes for 2012 campaign.

This isn't just an insult, this is really, really dumb politics.

[matcom]

60. if you don't think Obama is being held to a different standard you are a sad person

and uninformed.

sad reality. sucks but true.

as much as we think it isn't the case, it is.

[MadHound]

62. I don't doubt that he's being held to a different standard-by a minority group of people

Whose votes he wouldn't get anyway even if he were white, simply due to the fact that he's got a D behind his name. Meanwhile, out here in the real world, the vast majority of people actually voted for and supported him (remember those big vote totals), and the overwhelming majority of people who didn't vote for him at least accept him as President and are wishing him the best and willing to work with him.

You are talking about pandering to a small minority of people, and frankly that's dumb, both on a personal level and a political one. You wind up hamstringing your administration and pissing off the very people that you need to get re-elected.

Instead, once again, as under Bush, we find our President pandering to the small minority of rabid right wingers who will never, ever sit down with Obama, much less vote for him.

If Obama feels like he's going to have to pander to this small minority of people on a continuous basis, then it was a mistake to elect him because he will be politically paralyzed and we should get him out of office ASAP.

[matcom]

63. less than 4%

that was the margin of victory. it ain't small

[Terran]

61. Well screw you matcom, you're not gay so...

you just don't understand. :sarcasm:

Thanks, great post.

[TheWraith]

64. Kicked and recommended. nt

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. I'm *so* surprised that you K&R'd this

[Bluebear]

69. Shocker!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

71. Someone fetch me my smelling salts!

[TheWraith]

83. Do you have a problem that you'd like to get off your chest?

Or do you just object on principle to anyone supporting rationality on DU?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

92. Rationality...dismissing bigotry...same difference

:eyes:

[TheWraith]

94. Glad to see you don't imagine that you can disagree on substance.

All you've got left is irrational attacks.

[MazeRat7]

65. K&R n/t

[Ezlivin]

66. It's not a party, either

How can you party with a damned preacher around?

When's the last time someone invited you to a "kick-ass party" and then said that there would be preachers there?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

84. It wouldn't be DU if there weren't people parroting freeper talking points. nt

[DS1]

73. This frozen Skor bar is delicious!

[matcom]

74. you're late to the party

douchebag :eyes:

[DS1]

75. Sorry, was busy pushing the cat out the front door

[matcom]

77. with a fucking BELL I hope!

:grr:

[DS1]

78. I don't think it would do much good in this weather

:D

[matcom]

79. always an excuse

:D

[Ms. Toad]

76. So - as long as it is not ensconced in formal policy

I am supposed to take smile and politely wave at the bigot who actively works against my rights, and believes I am the moral equivalent of a child abuser?

Sorry - bigotry is bigotry, whether it is formally adopted as policy or just practiced by elevating bigots by honoring them with a prominent place on the inaugural stage. Obama has the ability to change this particular practice - and I hope that once he really understands how cruel his choice was he will do the right thing.

[G_j]

80. thank you for your well spoken and reasoned post, however,

(and I read posts like this completely and with an open mind),

I believe I have found my humble view. I think it is absolutely wrong for Obama to include Warren in what is supposed to be a "sacred" ceremony. This 'beginning of a new era' will supposedly be symbolized in the inauguration ceremony.


Warren's remarks only days ago, are in my mind, no better than any blatantly racist statements would be.
Comparing gay couples to pedophiles, and comparing gay marriage to incest, is vile and disgusting. Obama could easily use this as a reason to dump Warren. It would be more than justified.

[Creideiki]

81. What is a policy?

DADT? Obama's backing away from repeal.

DOMA? Obama's backing away from repeal.

Gender identity inclusive ENDA? Do you hear that? That's Obama not saying, "Boo!"

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

82. "A Pastor At A Party Is NOT A POLICY" WRONG! The POS is being given a high honor.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. We're Even? I never insulted you. I disagreed with your premise.

:shrug:

[Neshanic]

88. Rewrite! Call Rewrite. Script change. 18,0000 reasons.

[terrya]

89. Yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4685771&mesg_id=4685771

[matcom]

90. the script stands as written

oscar-worthy as it is

[Neshanic]

91. Yes, as fiction screenplay. When is the movie?

[Hannah Bell]

93. he's a dominionist. why doesn't obama just invite the fricking christian identity folks, too.

that would show he's *really* independent of his base.