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Does Obama actually have an ideology or is he all over the place as the mood

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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:18 PM
Original message
Does Obama actually have an ideology or is he all over the place as the mood
strikes him?

I think he has a basic belief in fairness or trying to do good but I am beginning to realize that, ideologically, he has no anchor or core set of beliefs.

I feel very betrayed. Like Bush being a phony "compassionate conservative" I think Obama is a phony Democrat
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. You seem to be a part of the crowd
who convinced themselves that Obama was a liberal. He wasn't during the campaign; he isn't now. He's a centrist, almost DLC type Democrat.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. !!
:thumbsup: Some people are actually removing their rose colored glasses where Obama is concerned. That is good!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. People are waking up to reality-finally.
Which is good because we need people to hold the Obama administration accountable. Not worship it like groupies.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Yes, I nearly lost my mind beating my head against the wall over that in the primaries.
My sense was that Obama talked center populist but would rule pretty far to the right. I don't get the sense that there is a "real Obama" that's being suppressed here. This is the Obama I saw during the primaries.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. !!
:thumbsup:
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I knew it. I'm proud of my vote.
But it's going to take a lot of synapses firing at warp speed to help me justify this one.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. almost?
:eyes:
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh I'm sure you'll have plenty of action on this one. Good luck fellow poster.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's a broad brush you are painting with.
And, inaccurate, IMO.

He isn't perfect, and he fucked up big time in giving Warren the symbolic honor, but he is a Democrat. Wait for some policy decisions to cast your final judgment.
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. And also, maybe even wait til he actually takes the office.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You'd think we were in the middle of year 3 talking about reelection
or something the way that many DUers have already sat in judgment of the Obama administration before it has even been sworn in.
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Yep. I often wonder how this stacks up with previous presidents elect as the most
scrutinized pre-presidency, possibly ever. And most likely... never. I say, let the dude hit his effing stride for cryin' out loud.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. I would have to agree...
After 8 years of betrayal, it's natural for one to feel timid about the political process. Let's wait for some real proof before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Perhaps the ideology that you projected on him isn't matching
his actual ideology & things are out of sync & it's confusing everything.

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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. That was observed well. Almost casually well.
Nice strange pic btw.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. It happens once in a while, almost by accident.
;)
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. He is non-iedological, except for pragmatism. Results on serious issues, the worst in many decades..
Edited on Wed Dec-17-08 08:27 PM by MarjorieG
Frankly, I could care less about the huber lefty, labels, descriptions, and pie in the sky anything right now with life and death on the line. He is not betraying Democracy.

(sp)
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. He's not phony.
He's a center-right Democrat. Those elements are all there to find in his policy papers and his speeches.

It's the interpretations made by, and shared by, his fans that are misleading, from what I can tell.

"Democrat" is not synonymous with "liberal" or "left." There are conservative Democrats, corporate Democrats, and centrist Democrats. As a matter of fact, those segments seem to be growing.

I don't feel betrayed by Obama, but by all those who nominated him.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. BINGO!
I don't feel betrayed by Obama, but by all those who nominated him. :thumbsup:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Everyone wanted change and we are getting it
He has picked many people that actually have experience and wisdom in their fields...

He has reached out to the other side so all can work together to fix the country.

He has said it won't be easy, He has said everyone in America is going to have to do their part.

He has always said that he will tell the truth even if it's painful....

What more do you want? This is a 100% improvement over the last eight years......

Could you do his future job?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Could you do his future job? Of course I could
Just not very well ...

:hi:

Don
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. He..he...I don't envy him
The mess that he has to clean up is just ridiculous.....

:hi:
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
46. "experience and wisdom in their fields"???
What kind of "wisdom" do you think Larry Summers has? The "wisdom" to help push through deregulatory legislature which ended up causing our entire financial system collapse? That kind of wisdom?
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WillieW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. How dare you? The man has a lot on his plate now.
He is doing the best he can (not even being president yet)
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. People are allowed too be disappointed. You get that, right?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. He's a politician playing to the "center".
A little of this, a little of that, whatever it takes to be popular.

Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)

Bob Dylan
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Truth Teller Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. Off to the Greatest
A lot are feeling this way.
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. False choice. Correct answer: "none of the above."
We've had so many years of ideological posturing and bickering, we've come to assume that one has to "have an ideology" even to be in the game.

Probably the only "ism" that applies to Obama is "pragmatism." Forget ideology and the identity politics that go along with it. He's obviously a leader who wants to get things done; he's authentic and ethical and very capable of getting things done, as far as I can tell.

We'll know him by his results, and I suspect that a good portion of those results will strike most progressives favorably.
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yeah, he just goes on a whim.
:wtf:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Well, you know how these Chicago politicians can be.
Especially, you know, the darker ones. Not to be trusted, no siree.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama hates ideologies
He looks at all sides of an issue and does what he thinks is best based on all facts.

If it is a republican idea that is best, he will support it. If it is a progressive idea, who will support it too.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. Or maybe he looks at an issue and sees which way the wind blows.
Great. Does he hate the whole ideology of "multiculturalism" or is he open the ideologies of racial supremacy? Or does he only care about ideologies when it affects him and his family directly?

I'm all for pragmatism, but what is the basis for the "best idea" if you believe in absolutely nothing?
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Yeah, that moistened finger always held up in the air.
:puke: :puke:
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. I feel your pain, Peregrine Took. BUT I'm still hanging with him despite Vilsack and Warren.
After reflecting on the Warren selection, and after my initial rush of righteous anger, I am coming around to thinking that he may have made a good decision. (Aarggghh, I can't believe I'm saying that about Obama selecting Warren!! but I did).

The reason I think it's a good decision is because he is going to need good will from nearly every segment of our society if he is going to pull off driving this wreck of a country out of the ditch Bush has put us in. Despite my ill feelings toward the religious fundies, they are citizens and they do matter when it comes to getting laws passed and actions taken that will help us get back on track as a nation.

Now, as far as Vilsack is concerned, well I'm still going to have to reflect some more on his appointment. I mean, Obama is not playing to a Vilsack constituency is he?

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. There's your problem, Mac.
"Pragmatic Centrism" is a Dogmatic Ideology without the nuisance of being founded on Ideals.


Since "Centrism" is NOT based on Issues, it will vary for each individual and in each election as "The Center" moves, but still lends the comfortable protection of The Middle of the Herd for anyone who is not well informed or lacks the courage to actually Take a Stand on The Issues. The really dangerous thing about the Dogma of Centrism is that it is so easy to dictate from an authoritarian source. It can be completely controlled by the handful of people who own The Media. If the TV says that the country is "Center-Right", then the "Centrists" all line up and say "Thats good enough for me!".



Where Obama stands on "The Issues" is the only criteria that matters.
His campaign was filled with vague Progressive rhetoric and Progressive imagery, but when examined for specific STANDS on Issues was surprisingly Conservative or non-committal.

His voting record in the Senate combined with his cabinet and administration appointments are not good news for the Democratic wing of the Party.
It is frightening when even hard Core Republicans rejoice in his appointments.


Clinton and Steinberg at State should be powerful voices for 'neo-liberalism' which is not so different in many respects from 'neo-conservativism.'"
-- Max Boot, neoconservative activist, former McCain staffer.


"I see them as being sort of center-right of the Democratic party."
-- James Baker, former Secretary of State and the man who led the theft of the 2000 election.


"... certainly nothing that represents a drastic change in how Washington does business."
-- Michael Goldfarb of the neoconservative Weekly Standard.

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Wait for him to serve one term, then we can talk.
I'm all for open revolt in 4 years. I also think we should wait until then to start judging him.
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MazeRat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yawn - n/t
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. I think he has identity issues.
It's not unexpected for someone with his background.
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. The most successful presidents have a flexible ideology that adapts to situations
Part of the reason why Bush is such a failure is because he had one ideology that he tried to make everything fit into his ideology. He thought that tax cuts could solve just about any economic problem, when in fact the problems were much deeper, deregulation left big holes open that caused the economy to collapse like it did today, but since being for deregulation is part of Bush's ideology he couldn't admit it, he refused to do anything about it.

Now near the end of his term Bush is finally bending his ideology to try salvage the economy, but he should have just bent his ideology years ago and fixed the root cause of the problem.

Historians even say that one trait that just about all presidents viewed as a failure today have in common is that they were unwilling to bend their ideology to the political realities when necessary.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. He is in a VERY difficult place in a VERY bad situation.
As for Warren he has NO value that I can discern.

That said - I'm assuming the Obama team made a calculated move choosing him. He is the 'pastor figurehead' to many of those who voted AGAINST Obama.

Obama is trying to pull in as many Americans as possible - he knows how bad things are going to get over the next few years.

This country is in a divided, polarized, propaganda (religious included)induced state of cognitive dissonance.



I'm assuming this is a very well calculated move..... Honestly, WHY would he pick this parasite if not out of NEED.



The next few years (+/-) are gonna REALLY SUCK. He needs to have as many of us as he can pulling TOGETHER.

It's not gonna be pretty.



(I posted this in another thread as well)
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. so would you support a Klansman speaking at the inauguration?
all inclusive. reaching out.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Put down the bottle of Red, and READ what I wrote.
.... I say that because I have often posted w/ a bottle of Red beside me....


OK - Obama chooses a Klansman preacher....1217 ppl cheer and are dancing in the streets!!!!

Obama chooses warren and 12,170,000 ppl are 'dancing in the streets'.

We need to pull together in the next few years...... I'm assuming this is a calculated move.

I could be wrong, but given his history it sounds right.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I dont drink.
the KKK is to black people what Warren is to gay folks.
its that simple.
and if Obama keeps this up, he will lose a lot of votes from the people who voted for change.
that includes me, in 2012.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Sorry, Drinking Red wine and posting can be fun (and dangerous)
Look at the #'s. The #'s of homophobes that worship the false prophet 'Warren'..... There are FAR TOO MANY.

This country is GOING DOWN.... all we can hope for is a soft landing.


A few million of of the 'false prophet's followers could mean the difference between The Great Depression and something far worse.


I think this move is on a chessboard.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. I see that in addition to the 28 percenters many here also bought the Reich wing
bullshit on Obama.

This guy is just the first step in the right direction. There is no way the kind of politician many want would ever get elected today. It will take an Obama and at least another half step to slowly move the country to the left to the point where a true leftist would be viable, if then.

This is the US not the EU. Obama nor even the Clintons are right of the current American center. Hell, for some most on DU aren't "left" enough (including myself at times) and it bewilders me to no end that people can't grasp that about everyone on here is far left compared to most of the population. If DUers are "rightest" or "center right" than what kind of politics do you think Joe and Jane Blow off the street have?

It blows me away that so many are under the impression that at least a generation's evils can be undone in a few weeks or even more realistically a term or two.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. A generations of evil can be blown away in a second.
Hence the fall of Nazi Germany after the end of the war.
Hence the rise of the Paris Commune.

That's why some things "fall" and some things "crumble." Other than civil rights issues, things tend to happen pretty damn fast actually.
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mwei924 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
43. You clearly bought the "most liberal senator" bullshit..
Obama has never been an ideologue. In "The Audacity of Hope", he spells it out clearly and unequivocally that he really has no use for rigid ideology. If you thought otherwise, then you were hallucinating during the entire election.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. The U.S. is a fascist country that tortures, invades and occupies...
Cronyism is rampant in fascist countries, always has been. Obama is appointing loyalists as any leader of a fascist country would, we the people are left only to "hope" that things will rapidly change to return fascist America to it's democracy-like history. Seventy-percent of Americans have some financial investment in our military/industrial complex so turning a war-like culture like us around is going to take at least 2 years, maybe 8.

Considering the huge propaganda network that's been built up over the last 100 years to brainwash people into becoming mindless consuming warbots, the task of Obama is huge whether he appoints cronies or not.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I'm not sure Obama has any interest in the task you describe.
Although I do believe you describe it well.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. OMG you are so right; it seems like an eternity he's been squatting in the WH screwing us over
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Hekate


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Did you or did you not see my multiple sarcasm smilies? It's hard to tell from what you wrote.
Obama has yet to be sworn in, and yet you'd think from the frothing at the mouth around here that he was Dick Cheney Junior. I'm more than a little disgusted.

Some people here can't even wait until Obama actually enters the Oval Office to start bashing the hell out of him, parsing every syllable and gesture to find reasons to be offended.

Personally, I voted for Barack Obama because I trust his judgment, and I'm willing to wait until he actually has a Presidential record before criticizing his Presidential record.

By the way, you seem so eager to participate in bashing Democrats -- what took you so long to find DU? Enjoy your stay.

Hekate


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