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Iowa Man Faces 20 Years in Jail for COMIC BOOKS! It's a Crumb Nightmare Come True!

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:03 AM
Original message
Iowa Man Faces 20 Years in Jail for COMIC BOOKS! It's a Crumb Nightmare Come True!
Read Comics! Go to Jail!

It's true! In one of the strangest tales of American Puritan Prosecutors Gone Wild since Oklahoma State District Court Judge Richard Freeman ruled that copies of the award winning film The Tin Drum had to be taken from libraries, video stores and even people's homes and destroyed because of one scene

http://bubbaworld.com/tin-drum-1.html

Iowa is trying to send a comic book collector to jail for 20 years, because he ordered some Japanese manga in the mail. Here is the story.

http://www.mangaupdates.com/news.html?id=437

Yes, you read that right. Here's the deal. Christopher Handley of Iowa, USA was arrested about half a year ago for buying manga. One day, he receives 7 volumes of manga from the post office because he ordered them from Japan. The authorities follow him home because they already investigated the volumes and deemed them "obscene" and "objectionable." He is arrested, and they confiscate his whole collection: DVDs, manga volumes, VHS tapes, computers, etc. And now he faces a trial and up to 20 years in prison. All for ordering manga.

Now, it's true that sources say that some of the manga in question are yaoi. Sure, he may have had some hentai in his vast collection. But that's not the point. He was just going to read them in private in his own home. He didn't commit some heinous crime and rape someone. The issue here is about freedom. Your personal freedom.




Here is a statement from the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. The fact that such a thing exists lets you know that the graphic fiction industry has had its share of censorship problems. However, I am not sure that I have ever heard of anyone being threatened with 20 years in prison for purchasing items that are commercially available.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-10-10/iowa-collector-charged-for-allegedly-obscene-manga

CBLDF's United Defense Group team, led by Eric Chase, has successfully petitioned District Judge Gritzner to drop some of Handley's charges and rule parts of a controversial law unconstitutional. Handley was initially charged under the United States Code, which was amended by section 504 of the PROTECT Act to prohibit distribution or possession of "a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting," that —

• ‘(1)(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and

• ’(B) is obscene; or

• '(2)(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and

• '(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;

Gritzner ruled that the last two clauses were unconstitutional as they restricted protected speech. Handley still faces charges under the obscenity clause, if the court determines that the material meets the Supreme Court's Miller Test. The Miller Test dictates that material is only obscene if a jury determines that it meets all of the following three criteria:

* whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest
* whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law
* whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value

CBLDF Executive Director Charles Brownstein notes, "In the past, CBLDF has had to defend the First Amendment rights of retailers and artists, but never before have we experienced the Federal Government attempting to strip a citizen of his freedom because he owned comic books."




That old "community standard" test is a pesky one. Get together a jury of repressed Baptists in some rural enclave where incest is considered better than mixed race marriage because Lot diddled his daughter, and you can get a conviction on anything. A Republican Federal Attorney who is looking to run for state office---say as Attorney General or for the Supreme Court or for Congress---could advance his career by staging a ridiculous prosecution like this, aimed at a private citizen who would not have access to the kind of legal defense team that comic book stores and comic book artists would be able to command. This would be the easiest way to establish a precedent that could then be used to target millions of American consumers. With the vast warrantless wiretap operation that the Bush administration has run, they may already have information on everyone who has ever viewed web comics or manga online. And what better way to justify internet censorship than being able to show that millions of American internet users are "felons"?

Here is more on Handley's case in Wired .

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/11/neil-gaiman-com.html

Wired.com: How did Handley get wrapped up in this?

Brownstein: His case began in May 2006 when he received an express mail package from Japan that contained seven Japanese comic books. That package was intercepted by the Postal Inspector, who secured a search warrant after deciding the package contained objectionable content. When he picked up the package, Handley was pulled over by law enforcement officers who followed him to his home.

Once there, agents from the Postal Inspector's office, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation and officers from the Glenwood Police Department seized Handley's extensive collection of over 1,200 manga publications; hundreds of DVDs, VHS tapes, laser discs; seven computers, and other documents. Though Handley's collection of hundreds of comics covered a wide spectrum of manga, the government is prosecuting drawings appearing in less than a dozen books.

Wired.com: That seems like a waste of taxpayers' time and money.

Brownstein: Handley's case is troubling because the government is prosecuting a private collector for possession of art.


If Handley has a collection of comics and manga that vast and only has a dozen pages with sexual content, then his collection is pretty tame by modern standards. What are the feds and local law enforcement doing? Trying to protect a grown man from erotic material by sending him to prison for 20 years at who knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars to the tax payer? If there are no criminals and terrorists in Southern Iowa, maybe they should move these federal attorneys somewhere else.

More on the Protect Act of 2003 here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

Note that as the act was written it can even be illegal to draw adults engaged in sex if the artist does not make them look old and gnarly enough. In other words, Congress made aesthetics a federal crime. This can be a real problem when American postal workers who do not understand Japanese style open other people's mail at the post office and read the manga that someone ordered from Japan.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-11-24/lawyer-indicates-manga-in-iowa-obscenity-case-are-yaoi

Chase told the Splash Page, "There is explicit sex in yaoi comics. And the men are drawn in a very androgynous style, which has the effect of making them look really young. There's a real taboo in Japan about showing pubic hair, so they're all drawn without it, which also makes them look young. So what concerned the authorities were the depictions of children in explicit sexual situations that they believed to be obscene. But there are no actual children. It was all very crude images from a comic book."


This is analogous to police seeing white powder, arresting someone for possession of white powder, declaring that it looked like cocaine but never bothering to test it and showing it to the jury---all so that they can convince the public that they are cleaning up corruption.

If anyone knows who is prosecuting this case, I would love to hear a name and see a picture. Only a total idiot would go to all this time and effort to prosecute a guy for comic book possession, and he should be on Obama's must fire list.




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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Twisted and Bizarre
It's ok to draw pictures of them being blown away by some crazed gunman.

But have pictures of naked people -- ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Another link
the comic book legal defense fund

http://www.cbldf.org/index.shtml

I first heard about this a little while back and thought wtf!!!!
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. As a manga/anime fan, myself, this pisses me off!
I'm not into the yaoi or hentai stuff, but what freakin' difference does it make if somebody IS? What's the difference between hentai manga/anime or, say, adult magazines/videos?

And what fucking cave are these people living in, that they don't recognize the manga style of drawing?

My God, we're in the new Dark Ages, when shit like this is happening.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yaoi is pretty popular with women, here. My girlfriend's favorite
is Yami no Matsuei, which is fairly tame. The AZN channel used to broadcast the anime version regularly.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yaoi is popular with Japanese women, too - n/t
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't even like manga/anime
But I agree with every word you said.

Oh, and I've been donating to the CBLDF for about ten years, ever since some idiot customs guy impounded a shipment of comics (and sued the comic-store proprieter importing them) because they objected to a single panel in Robert Crumb's My Troubles With Women.
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. Hentai
"What's the difference between hentai manga/anime or, say, adult magazines/videos?"

Tentacles, from what I understand.

This is just freakin' absurd. Of course, it was some yahoo that thinks that the old "Speed Racer" was cutting edge.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here in Seattle,
one can buy Yaoi manga off the shelf at the Kinokuniya bookstore. It's really no big deal.

They are absolutely violating his Constitutional rights, and this case also smacks of homophobia.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. I wonder if it is the image that someone spammed here a few weeks ago.
It was incredibly disturbing and offensive. If memory serves the person was promptly banned.

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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. If he wants to buy a disturbing and offensive image,
that is his right. And it is not up to you, me, or anyone else, to tell him he can't. Just as it is not up to anyone else to tell me or you what we can or can't buy.

Slippery slope. Once we start, it will not stop.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. If he buys images of tiny infants bleeding to death during a brutal rape.
than the current law says that he is in violation. He is contesting that law and decision. That is his constitutional right. If/when the law changes he will have the right to such material.

Slippery slope arguments are all fine and good and i somewhat agree but i also know lines must be drawn (no pun intended) somewhere and i think that child abuse is a good place to draw them.

I have NO TOLERANCE for anyone who gets enjoyment off the suffering of children.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. They're not children.
Someone explained how anime is drawn, above.

The Japanese do not like the illustration of pubic hair, so the characters all look young, but they are not.

That makes your argument moot.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. You are wrong. There was an image spammed on this board and it was exactly as i described.
It was CLEARLY the rape of an infant while the mother begged for the assualt to stop. Others here saw it before it was deleted.

It was not a gender and age ambiguous character.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. "Yaoi" is male x male romance. What you describe is not romance manga.
The genres are very well defined in Japan, since buyers know what they are looking for.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Whatever you saw has absolutely nothing to do with Yaoi or shonen-ai.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. I saw it. It was one of the very few posts on DU I've EVER alerted on.
And I agree, there was nothing gender or age ambiguous about it.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Thank you. That image REALLY disturbed me and i also alerted (i believe for the first time). n/t
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. I have NO tolerance for child abuse either, but drawings are fictional
and to make them illegal is to support censorship. I would never approve of such pictures of a real act, but there is no line that can be drawn for censorship for either words or drawings - especially when one views possibly objectionable material in private. Otherwise books get banned, and people go to jail, over something someone created with a pen.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. I have heard the argument made that possessing child porn should not be punishable
because the owner was not physically harming the children. They are simply viewing images in private. This is a slippery rights issue as well. It is just in the reverse. Yet you would not support a relaxing of those laws for the sake of someone's civil rights. Why? WHO draws the lines?

There are serious problems when rights issues affect several different groups simultaneously. It comes down to a least harm done issue in my opinion. In THIS case there is a law. The law can be and probably should be contested. But arguments can be made to push an issue into many different directions. At some point, enough has to be enough.

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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. There's a HUGE difference between child porn and manga
A person who reads child porn is likely to molest children. A person who reads yaoi or hentai is not.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. The point I am trying to make is that these are drawings, NOT real life porn
Not real porn of any kind. Real porn requires actual people to be involved. In cases of child porn, there are actual people being hurt/exploited - therein lies the problem. Artwork hurts nobody. So again, I am not talking about possessors of child porn, I'm talking about possession of drawings, otherwise known as art. Yes you may be offended by the acts portrayed in the drawings, but NOBODY was harmed in the making of these drawings. I don't know any other way to state it. People have tried throughout time to ban books they find objectionable. This is no different. No real people were involved in making this artwork other than the artist him/her self. So again, just to be clear - art, not porn. Should we install cameras in everyones' homes so that we can monitor, judge, and punish people for the drawings they are looking at? Because that is the end result of your argument taken to the extreme. When it comes to drawings or the printed word - Just say NO to censorship, no matter how offended you may be.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
53. Do you agree with John Ashcroft?
Do you agree with Ashcroft's position, that even depicting minors engaging in sex should be illegal, even if the persons portraying the minors are in fact adults? Should movies like American Beauty be illegal? Because under Ashcroft's plan, that movie would be.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. We should start mailing
"objectionable" material to Republicans and tip off postal inspectors as to the intended receiver.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. "whether the work, as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value"
Well, that alone nixes 80% of all current television programming then...

:hide:

Bad joke.

But to be serious: I don't know enough about that type of comic to really give an opinion. Sounds like a misunderstanding between cultures, based on what you said on various Japanese taboos.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Scooter’s Sex Shocker
by Lauren Collins
November 7, 2005

snip...

It took Libby more than twenty years to write “The Apprentice,” which is set in a remote Japanese province in the winter of 1903. The book is brimming with quasi-political intrigue and antique locutions—“The girl who wore the cloak of yellow fur”; “one wore backward a European hat”—that make the phrase a “former Hill staffer,” by comparison, seem straightforward.

Like his predecessors, Libby does not shy from the scatological. The narrative makes generous mention of lice, snot, drunkenness, bad breath, torture, urine, “turds,” armpits, arm hair, neck hair, pubic hair, pus, boils, and blood (regular and menstrual). One passage goes, “At length he walked around to the deer’s head and, reaching into his pants, struggled for a moment and then pulled out his penis. He began to piss in the snow just in front of the deer’s nostrils.”

Homoeroticism and incest also figure as themes. The main female character, Yukiko, draws hair on the “mound” of a little girl. The brothers of a dead samurai have sex with his daughter. Many things glisten (mouths, hair, evergreens), quiver (a “pink underlip,” arm muscles, legs), and are sniffed (floorboards, sheets, fingers). The cast includes a dwarf, and an “assistant headman” who comes to restore order after a crime at the inn. (Might this character be autobiographical? And, if so, would that have made Libby the assistant headman or the assistant headman’s assistant?)

When it comes to depicting scenes of romance, however, Libby can evoke a sort of musty sweetness; while one critic deemed “The Apprentice” “reminiscent of Rembrandt,” certain passages can better be described as reminiscent of Penthouse Forum. There is, for example, Yukiko’s seduction of the inexperienced apprentice: MORE.....

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/11/07/051107ta_talk_collins

I guess Shrub might need to pardon scooter again and again?

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. this is wrong of them to slap charges on him, as even if some of the make-believe
drawings involve youth, there are MAJOR motion pictures that depict real children in sexual scenes of various sorts or innuendo, that explain a fictional storyline, and from the sounds of this, they're harassing him because it's not like he has thousands of pages of sex material but a dozen pages out of thousands of manga comic books (if I read the story right this late/early)

some people have nothing better to do, even in their jobs, than to harass people - and we all know how the police have been hateful to GLBT community...
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. e-bay has hundreds of listings
i guess i`d better get rid of bondage fairies.....
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Insect abuse!
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. The ban on pubic hair and genitalia
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 08:12 AM by kristopher
The ban on pubic hair and genitalia isn't just a cultural taboo, it is their pornography law. It's short, sweet, and unambiguous.

Not wishing the burden on Mr. Handley, but it might make an interesting legal argument - should the clarity of Japan's manner of defining pornography trump the ambiguous and subjective manner we employ?
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. IIRC...
Don't those laws stem from those put in place by the US-run provisional government that was in place during the post-WWII occupation?
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. With these laws, how the heck did seventies "historical" "romance" writers like
Rosemary Rodgers and Kathleen Woodweiss escape prosecution?

Or even Jean Auel, who writes the Earth Children series (CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR). Her fourth book in the series (THE PLAINS OF PASSAGE--the absolute worst of an otherwise so-so to excellent) was so filled with boringly graphic sex scenes that I skipped probably half the book?



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Ranting_Wacko Donating Member (216 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. To say nothing of...
... half the Supernatural Romance novels published today.

We should show these people some Laurel K. Hamilton. Their heads would explode. And I'm sure that some of the werewolf stories probably violate some law about bestiality somewhere.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I'll take your word for it. I have moved to the much gentler genre of Fantasy, i.e.
Sarah Douglass, Mercedes Lackey, Andre Norton, Patricia McKillip, Robin McKinley, et als, to escape the gritty, obnoxious, and/or explicit...
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EvilAL Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
21. hahahah DU Adbot
just gave me a pic ad link for hundreds of free Manga stuff.
i didn't click it and now it's a volkwagon one.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
22. Where in Iowa I do not see it in any of the story?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. but buying an automatic weapon is just fine....
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. The War on Porn is ramping up (again)
With support for the War on Drugs on the wane, the puritans need a different tool for expanding their police powers and destroying individual rights.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. As much as I hate any porn...
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 01:05 PM by chrisa
I would say that a comic book is artistic.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Hey, don't knock graphic fiction. Or anime/manga.
Or else I will have to sic my friends, the bad ass bishonens.







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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. why is the wuss with vampire teeth biting a gun??
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. It is indeed art
It's made up! Nobody physically participated in any kind of porn. It is truly disturbing that we are so closely monitored by the morality police - especially over some DRAWINGS! :scared:
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Damn Right!!
This is fucking artwork. They are imaginary. Who the fuck should be able to tell you what art you can look at or buy.
The characters are no more real than Mickey Mouse or Spider-Man.
This is insane. And that anyone here defends this lynching by the State is horrible.
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. What's going on here? The morality police???
What. In. The. Fuck?!?! What's going on here? The morality police??? This has nothing to do with the type of anime/hentai or what not. Underage kids can not be in sex films because that is exploitation (as well as being sick and wrong). That is the law to protect the child and therefor child pornography is illegal. I'm fine with that. HOWEVER - art is a different story. You can not stop someone from drawing something even if you consider it sick and offensive because there is nobody being harmed - unlike with child porn. So yes indeed this is a first amendment issue. This guy has had his privacy violated and I hope he sues these fuckers. Anything that can be written or drawn should NEVER be illegal, no matter how offensive the subject matter might be - especially when one is viewing it in private. Anything less and we start down a dangerous path of censorship. K&R'd big time!
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. Equally disturbing to me -- I was BLOCKED from reply to your post.
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 03:05 PM by mojowork_n
Not too long ago one of the remaining columnists in our local majornewsdaily wrote something in defense of a Wisconsin woman who'd faught the Good Fight, an early Culture Warrior from the 50's who'd worked to preserve the delicate minds of youth, from the outrages being perpatrated on them by the comic book industry -- during the McCarthy era.

I wrote him a reply, after having discovered that George Orwell had had some interesting things to say on the subject, less than a decade earlier.

This is the Orwell fragment:

In an essay written December 27, 1946, Mr. Orwell wrote:

"...A CORRESPONDENT has sent me a copy of one of the disgusting American ‘comics’ which I referred to a few weeks ago. The two main stories in it are about a beautiful creature called The Hangman, who has a green face, and, like so many characters in American strips, can fly. On the front page there is a picture of what is either an ape-like lunatic, or an actual ape dressed up as a man, strangling a woman so realistically that her tongue is sticking four inches out of her mouth. Another item is a python looping itself round a man’s neck and then hanging him by suspending itself over a balustrade. Another is a man jumping out of a skyscraper window and hitting the pavement with a splash. There is much else of the same kind.


My correspondent asks me whether I think this is the kind of thing that should be put into the hands of children, and also whether we could not find something better on which to spend our dwindling dollars.

Certainly I would keep these out of children’s hands if possible. But I would not be in favour of actually prohibiting their sale. The precedent is too dangerous. But meanwhile, are we actually using dollars to pay for this pernicious rubbish?

The point is not completely unimportant, and I should like to see it cleared up..."


Here's the link to the essay. Scroll down to the very last few paragraphs to find the entry:

http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/essays/asiplease1946.htm

(Actually, if anyone has any interest at all in the issues of "press freedom", "journalistic responsibility", or literary integrity, I'd start with the very first essay written the previous year, and continue reading -- or at least skimming the entries -- up to that quoted excerpt.)


...Anyway, I was just going to retrieve that bit of text and append it to the discussion here, but I couldn't.

I was on a "public computer," in an establishment that offers coffee, reasonably priced eats and fast, free web browsing, and for the very first time, found out there were restrictions on web-surfing on the computers there. (This after I've been their best costumer for the better part of a year and a half!)

The url of the error message I got is itself pretty extraordinary. I've copied and pasted it below, so that someone else -- more knowledgeable than I am -- can tell me why I could go to every single webpage on D.U. -- including the McCamy Taylor Journal page -- just not the "discussion" page for this O.P.

http://yourserver.yourdomain/cgi-bin/dansguardian.pl?DENIEDURL==http%3a%2f%2fwww.democraticunderground.com%2fdiscuss%2fduboard.php%3faz%3dview_all%26address%3d389x4644196::IP==192.168.2.141::USER==-::REASON==Weighted%20phrase%20limit%20of%2050%20%3a%20646%20((-article%2c%20research)%2b(-news%2c%20article)%2b(-news%2c%20lawyer)%2b(bondage%2c%20fuck)%2b(bondage%2c%20%20porn)%2b(dwarf%2c%20fuck)%2b(dwarf%2c%20%20porn%20)%2b(erotic%2c%20fuck)%2b(erotic%2c%20%20porn)%2b(fuck%2c%20%20porn)%2b(incest%2c%20fuck)%2b(incest%2c%20%20porn)%2b(naked%2c%20fuck)%2b(%20porn%2c%20fuck)%2b(%20rape%2c%20fuck)%2b(visual%20depiction%2c%20porn)%2b(images%2c%20sexually%20explicit)%2b(%20penthouse%20%2c%20%20pet)%2b(anonymous%2c%20internet)%2b-democrat%2b-faq%2b-donate%2b%20hentai%2bhentai%2b%20rape%2bsexually%2bsexually%20explicit%20conduct%2bbestiality%2bintercourse%2bgenital%2b%20oral%2b-scientific%2b-supreme%20court%2b-baptist%2b%20incest%2bincest%2b-congress%2b-criminal%20investigation%2bsexual%20content%2b%20erotic%2berotic%2b%20sex%20%2b%20bizarr%2b%20porn%2bnaked%2badult%20mag%2bfuck%2b%20shit%20%2bbanned%2bbreast%2b-album%2b%20girl%20%2b%20piss%20%2bhomoerotic%2bbondage%2b-cultura%2bporno%2bsex%20scene%2b-breaking%20news%2b-other%20articles%2b-%20research%20%2b-discussion%20forum)

Without having seen the manga in question, I'd suspect that the url itself and the software responsible for generating it, is fundamentally much "dirtier" and nastier than anything any Japanese artist ever conceived of.
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
34. What comes around....
This incredibly anachronistic view was addressed 30 years ago (!) in National Lampoon when it did a parody of Tom & Jerry comics, showing over-the-top graphic violence and blood everywhere like a cat and mouse fighting with knives, bombs, etc would really look like. But the parody comic included certification from the Comics Code promising "no sex, no nudity, no communism" or something like that.

You just have to keep re-fighting old battles when repigs and/or conservatives and/or religious nutcases get into power. A notable example of that is the current nonsense about resurrecting (pun intended) the Scopes trial.
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here. This is what Yaoi looks like:




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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Oh great. Now we're all goin' to prison. Thanks.
It's like 9 1/2 weeks for highschool kids.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. You can tell they are guys because no breasts and ridiculously wide shoulders
Edited on Sat Dec-13-08 06:26 PM by McCamy Taylor
and also their eyes are not the size of saucers----gals in manga have big boobs and even bigger eyes and they do not have the ski slope shoulders. Other than that it is hard to tell the difference. You can tell that they are not children, because children in manga are much, much shorter and cuter with round cheeks, superdeformed heads, really enormous sparkly eyes and little bitty stubby arms and legs.

Here are some manga/anime children:







These kids are way scary, and I defy anyone to find them sexually attractive!
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kick for freedom of speech. n/t
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. It's jumped from comic books to lawn and garden!
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. Wait a minute. I thought he had a bunch of loli, not yaoi.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
50. With all the shit happening in htis WORLD and some asshole is worried about fucking MANGA...YA GATTA
BE SHITTIN ME......WTF???
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Giant Robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. I support the CBLDF
Long time comic geek here, and I have donated in the past to them. Sadly the money is not there for donating or comic books anymore but thats another matter...


What I want to say, or ask, really, is why was this package interecepted by the postal inspector? What tipped them off that this might be something explicit? I am guessing that there was a list of items in the package, especially from an overseas source, but isn't it the least bit disturbing to anyone else that they just looked at a packing slip let's say, and found that to be enough information to say it had naughty things in it and get a fucking search warrant?!?!?! Do they have a list of all the hentai and yaoi out there and cross reference it with packing slips? And what judge will OK this? Really what the fuck is going on here.
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