AP: Man Sprays 'Toilet-Papering' Teens with Fox Pee

[Hissyspit]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28191199

Man sprays 'toilet-papering' teens with fox pee
50-year-old uses night vision goggles to spot and attack up to 20 teens

updated 8:26 a.m. ET, Fri., Dec. 12, 2008
WILLMAR, Minn. - A 50-year-old man who told authorities he was fed up with teens toilet-papering his house decided to defend his property — with a squirt gun filled with fox urine.

Now, Scott Wagar is in trouble with the law.

Wagar pleaded not guilty on Wednesday in Kandiyohi County District Court to misdemeanor assault and other charges. He was released on personal recognizance.

According to police, Wagar was on his property Sept. 16 when he used night vision goggles to see 15-20 people running toward his place. He told police that he told them to leave, swore at them and sprayed them with the fox urine. He also allegedly struggled with one of the teens.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. I find a lot of my sympathy lodging itself with the pee-sprayer.

Maybe it's just my age or something, but it sounds like he had been subjected to repeated depredations, and the kids were out of line when they got it.

OK, so trash me.

[Lasher]

3. You won't get trashed by me.

Looks like Minnesota needs to strengthen its weak Castle Doctrine law.

[tabasco]

27. So you could shoot teen pranksters?

You are fucking psycho.

[ORDagnabbit]

30. if you dont do illegal activities then you have no worries.

[Hekate]

37. 'Scuse me? Using a squirt-gun filled with non-toxic fluid hardly rises to the level of "firepower"

In Ye Olde Days the kids might have found themselves with a butt-load of rock salt blasted at them from Farmer MacGregor's shotgun. Nowadays they're damn lucky the householder didn't possess a Taser.

I don't think repeated TP'ing of the man's property is funny. It's low-level vandalism -- over and over and over -- and who has to clean it up each time?

I do not believe in violence. The squirt-gun solution is sheer poetic justice, and I cannot believe the nerve of the kids and/or their parents to actually lodge a complaint with the cops. If MY kid had come home smelling of fox-piss he would have had absolutely no sympathy from me. I hope they are laughed out of court.

Hekate
goin' psycho any moment now

[blonndee]

40. Well said.

I too hope these little punk-asses are laughed out of court. They really are lucky that fox-piss is ALL they got. I'm astonished that it's the aggrieved HOMEOWNER who is facing charges. WTF? Why aren't there any vandalism charges against these teens?

[frogcycle]

46. I think I'd have laced it with tabasco and gone for the eyes

[Lasher]

52. Castle Doctrine laws do not dictate the use of firearms.

When individuals must protect themselves or their property they can employ non-lethal means such as tasers or pepper spray. Or even a water gun.

And I beg your pardon, I am not fucking psycho. I broke up with her years ago.

[tabasco]

80. LOL. Thought you were talking about guns.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Lasher]

90. Cool.

[Sex Pistol]

57. Yes, with tabasco sauce...

Lighten up...

[Blue_Tires]

89. +1

a younger, less respectful crowd has also moved into my neighborhood...now there are coke bottles and beer cans and tire tracks on my lawn almost every saturday/sunday morning...we used to pride ourselves on how litter-free we kept everything in the old days...

[kickysnana]

2. Seems fair to me. n/t

[1620rock]

6. How do you get fox pee??

[deadmessengers]

7. It's a hunting lure

They sell it in sporting-goods stores.

[kentauros]

50. And here I thought it was urine was Fox News pundits

:P

[Sex Pistol]

58. It will also keep rabbits out of your garden.

[Canuckistanian]

64. It's also a raccoon repellant

I was looking to get some to get rid of the critters in my garage attic.

[etherealtruth]

83. I am thankful you had an answer

.... I just didn't want to think about how one would gather urine from wild animals :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

95. I'm still not sure how they get it

Do they keep tame foxes, and train they to pee in a cup or something?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

14. .

[Historic NY]

34. scared foxes?

[IDemo]

55. Ply them with plenty of fox beer

[Luciferous]

28. agreed nt

[arcadian]

4. Did he then release the hounds?

n/t

[deadmessengers]

5. My hero

Let them stink for a week - those little shits are lucky they got off that easy.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Maybe it shoulda been skunk juice.

[niceypoo]

12. Well, I can see if it were USED toilet paper....

....otherwise I would just make them clean it up.

Why were they TPing his house in the first place? Probabally the neighborhood asshole.

[DeepBlueC]

17. "make" them...?

"make" 15-20 teenagers clean up your house? In what world?

[blonndee]

24. Blaming the victim?

"Why did that girl get raped, anyway? Must've been leading him on."

"Gosh, she wouldn't have gotten run off the road if she hadn't cut that other driver off!"

:eyes:

[scarletwoman]

26. Wow. Do you understand the judgement you just made?

Teens TP'ed his house -- so he must have done something to deserve it.

Way to blame the victim. How about considering the possibility that the teens are just punk assholes?

Since I live in Minnesota and this story was just featured on my local 10 o'clock news broadcast, I just finished watching an interview with the guy who was being targeted by the teens. He says that teens from the nearby high school first started doing this 5 years ago, and now it's apparently become a "tradition" of sorts.

Anyway, he's gotten fed up -- it's not just toilet paper, it's eggs and peanut butter and ketchup and other hard to clean up stuff.

And, watching the interview, I couldn't help but notice his obvious scar from cleft palate surgery. You don't think teenagers would stoop so low as to pick on someone just because they have a physical deformity?

Think about it.

sw

[TankLV]

9. Good for HIM - fuck these delinquints!

I utterly and completely support the homeowner in this...

[Sydnie]

10. He was armed with pee, they were armed with tp

Seems like it was a fair fight to me.

[proud patriot]

15. ROFLMAO

:rofl:

[DeepBlueC]

19. It is a beautiful symmetry...

:rofl: nice catch.

[Maru Kitteh]

11. How did he get the foxes to pee into the squirt gun for him?

:wow:

E:typo

[Lasher]

23. They are selected at random.

It's a condition of employment as guards of the henhouse.

[Maru Kitteh]

25. Very sly! n/t

[LeftyMom]

29. They sell concentrated fox urine as a small animal repellent.

http://www.amazon.com/GreenSense-Red-Fox-Urine/dp/B00025H3DA

BTW, read the reviews, they're a riot.

[Maru Kitteh]

32. OH MY GOD. I'm DYING OVER HERE!

"Don't Tamper with the Food Chain, January 12, 2006

Problem: Groundhogs. Solution: Deceptively trick them into believing that the crawlspace under your deck is actually an overutilzed fox urinal. New Problem: Bobcats looking for foxes. Now we've got wildcats clawing and growling under our grill and deck furniture as they await the return of these apparently urine-bloated foxes. A guy at the university says that I need to do some "excrement-compounding" which involves layering my fox urine with cougar urine and then with cougar-carcass essence. We don't see the results of this yet vis-a-vis the foxes, but the flies are out of control. Thank goodness for our noses, these can be addressed with a giant poster of a frog and a running digital recording of two bats mating."

[Hekate]

38. Oh my dear gods. I am roflmao. And what happened to their dear little bichon frise?

:spray: :rofl: :spray:

Hekate

[dysfunctional press]

82. i remember the first time that i saw red fox urine for sale at the sporting goods store-

i thought that he was trying to supplement his sanford & son money.

[EFerrari]

13. LOL! I hope it gets thrown out of court.

That would be scary and maddening to have 20 teenagers running all over your place.

We used to do that a little bit in my neighborhood but there was no malice to it, more like a running joke between three or four families. Maybe we were lucky nobody "shot" us. :)

[MrSlayer]

16. Good for him.

It's a sharp lesson and at least he didn't shoot them.

[LisaL]

18. WTF? The guy was on his property, right? Why is he being

charged?

[drmeow]

20. Hmmm - I'm just waiting for my house to be TP'd

(The neighbor up the street allowed her children to TP her house because - and I quote - "how else are they going to practice?" - and I'm just waiting for my house to be the first victim) - I'd like to use this method of retaliation if they do.

[dflprincess]

21. I was just watching this story on the local news

(www.wcco.com)

One of the other charges is theft. Apparently one on the kids dropped their cell phone and when the kid's dad called Wagar to get the phone back, Wagar told him he could have it back when he paid $100 for property damage. The kid's dad refused.

Something is seriously weird here that Wagar is being charged - I don't understand why the kids aren't being charged with vandalism. Wagar seemed like a reasonable person on the news. Apparently this all started as a homecoming prank at one time and has just escalated. There was no mention that Wagar has done anything that might provoke a teenage into thinking the guy deserves this.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. I guess if he'd just shot them, the law would be okay with it.

[Incitatus]

31. I don't know.

It wasn't in Texas.

[LeftyMom]

33. Or Florida. nt

[islandmkl]

35. naw...in florida it would have involved a 50-year old man...

running naked with rolls of toilet paper chasing young teenagers through a park...

on edit: waving an alligator that was attached to his forearm...

on edit 2: with a pit-bull (most likely one-eyed or at best three-legged) with a spike collar and a logging chain pulling him along...

[Doremus]

48. LOL!

[FloridaJudy]

36. What's really scary

Is the thought of O'Reilly and Hannity urinating into a squirt gun.

Help! I need some brain bleach!

[madinmaryland]

68. Dammit! Why did you have to go there??

:grr:

:puke:

Now I need to take another shower.

[Jamastiene]

39. I don't see any reason to arrest him.

I mean, he could have used bitter apple, but unless the hoodlums lick themselves, that wouldn't do any good. I fail to see where the owner of the property was in the wrong. :shrug:

[Skip Intro]

41. Stay the hell off his property, morons - sheesh. nt

[anonymous171]

42. Those kids' parents are probably well off. It would explain the odd charges.

[LisaL]

49. The charges are odd.

After all, shouldn't you be able to defend your own property? And it's not like he killed any of them.

[gollygee]

43. It seems to be not far off the level of TP'ing

I bet he doesn't get TP'd again anyway. One prank to ward off another. Did the kids get charged with trespassing or anything? Any of them of adult age?

[Political Heretic]

44. Pee gun = cool. "struggling" with one of them = probably reason for the charge

[LisaL]

47. The owner was on his property.

Should not one be able to defend his or her property?
Hell, in TX the owner could have shot a bunch of them and likely gotten away with it. The castle doctrine and all that.

[Political Heretic]

60. He shouldn't be allowed to physically assault over threat of toilet paper, no.

Like I said, pee gun = awesome. Completely great, cleaver and probably quite the deterent.

Without details of the complaint, I don't know what "struggle" with one of the kids actually means. But if it was physical, and violent - then no. I don't give to fucks about "property." The context of the situation is what matters. He seems to agree about the kids intent - to teepee a house. He knew there was no imminent threat to his person or his property (toilet paper isn't a "threat" - its an inconvenience).

Yes, I understand what some laws allow. The laws are wrong. If - again I'm saying if - he came out of his house and physically beat up a kid throwing TP and then said it was OK because he was on his property - that's total crap.

There's lots of things I can't do on my property, even if someone comes on to it unwanted. For instance, I can't rape a woman who trespasses on my property. All laws need context, and all rules need balance for reasonability.

[LisaL]

67. Oh please.

This defacing of the guy's property by teenagers has been going on for years.
By the way this article says the owner asked teenagers to leave, and they would not. The article also says it was the teen who grabbed the owner about the neck. But even if that was not the case-if you want to defend your property, and you asking people to leave, and they would not, WTF are you supposed to do? Are you arguing that you can't use physical force against people to defend your property? Like I said before, in TX, had he used a gun and shot at them, he probably could have gotten away with it.
http://wcco.com/local/fox.urine.charges.2.886589.html

[Political Heretic]

84. I don't really care about "your property"

The phrase "your property" shouldn't give someone a license to do whatever they want. Ordinarily, I can't assault people. If someone is harassing me anywhere else in civilization, but not directly threatening my life, I have to contact the authorities.

I don't believe that "property" should suddenly grant you special extra powers against another person - even one that is trespassing, but not a threat.

Like I said very carefully in my post, I don't have the details here. If the youth assaulted the man, then clearly the youth was in the wrong. And as I already indicated, shooting the kids with pee was awesome - harmless, but disgusting. Great and creative way to get back and pranksters. But, physically assaulting them, if that happened - crosses a line I don't think should be crossed.

You keep talking about TX. As if I care. I don't care what TX allows as I don't think TX should be the model for our social system.

[LisaL]

91. Well some of us have to work for a living.

Must be nice not to worry about material things and all that.
:eyes:

[JI7]

45. i have no problem with what he did

[1]

51. ha! give that man a medal! he didn't use a gun, he didn't use a baseball bat. he pissed on them...

á salute and god bless.

[alphafemale]

53. Piss Off

:rofl:

[Paladin]

54. Trust Me, Those Kids Were Lucky....

If we're talking about a guy who's into night vision goggles and fox piss attractant, those boys ought to be thankful they didn't both end up in a morgue with multiple bullet wounds in their backs. A result that would be wildly popular with some of our resident DU Gun Nuts, by the way.....

[wartrace]

56. Ah, more psychological projection Paladin?

In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts and/or emotions to others. According to (Wade, Tavris, 2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else..<1>


You really are a funny guy.

[Political Heretic]

61. Hmm... don't know Paladin, or your history with him, but the statement seems pretty fair.

Night vision goggles and fox pee? I think I'm being pretty fair in guessing that this is a guy well familiar with weapons, probably not afraid to use them.

I don't think that's "projection" - it just seems to be a plausible inference, based on the fact that I would guess that of the population that owns night vision goggles, you would find some similar experience, training, background and interests. Not in all cases of course! But I bet there would be a trend. Combined with the number of people who have Fox pee ready and on hand... I think we can make a few educated guesses and suggest that the kids got off easy. :)

[wartrace]

69. Yet he did not shoot the kids.

I took exception with Palidins claim that anyone in the gungeon would suggest he should have shot the kids & that is what I was referring to.

[Paladin]

94. I Stand By My Comments.

Tell me, were those DU threads devoted to the Joe Horn vigilante killings in Texas just a figment of my imagination? You know, the threads where so many of our resident gun obsessives expressed drooling admiration for that crazed old lunatic who decided to kill a couple of unarmed law breakers who posed absolutely no threat to him while on Horn's next-door neighbor's property?

Don't forget that I've been in and around this country's gun culture for about four decades. I know that most gun owners (including me) don't harbor this sort of twisted mindset---but way too many of them do. I repeat: those boys are lucky they aren't dead, and our resident Gun Nuts have lost an opportunity to do some further drooling....

[Retired AF Dem]

99. Piss off

[wartrace]

59. He should have gotten his garden hose out- How cold is it in Minnesota?

I bet they would have really appreciated being hosed down in sub zero temperatures. It probably would have cooled down their raging hormones pretty quick.

[Political Heretic]

62. See I'm not against the kids, OR against the guy - he out pranked the pranksters.

As a life long prankster, I've had three rules that I follow:

1) never do permanent damage to person or property - massive inconvenience however, is encouraged :)
2) if you are out pranked by your target - take it like a grown up, respect he/she who beat you. :)
3) never, ever, run and cry to an authority figure about getting pranked, if rule 1 and 2 are followed

Old man = win.

Kids ought to send him a case of wine and say "well played, sir." :P

[LisaL]

76. He doesn't want to play. That much should be obvious to you.

:eyes:

[Political Heretic]

85. Looks like it to me.

Hence, fox pee. Brilliant stroke, in my book. :)

[Robb]

63. Letter from the pee-sprayer in the paper: (LINK)

http://www.wctrib.com/articles/index.cfm?id=44984§ion=Opinion

"I was being egged before I sprayed the kids that charged me. I was attacked on my own property. This has been going on for eight years.

This year the kids came with toilet paper, eggs, screwdrivers, plastic forks, paint ball gun, sharpened drumsticks, etc. The police took the names of 36 kids as they came out of the cornfield a mile away.

In the past the kids have threatened to rape my wife, kill my dog, beat me to a pulp, soaped foul things on my windows.

The school tells me they can’t help. The police can’t seem to stop it. Thankfully, the police always come when we call."

[flvegan]

71. If that's genuine, then it is fortunate

that he didn't actually shoot those kids. No idea how old these "kids" are, but coming onto MY property armed with what could be deadly weapons having threatened to rape my wife, kill my dog, etc...I shudder to think of it.

[wartrace]

74. I wonder why the kids are targeting him.

Eight years? The kids were throwing eggs at him? That's assault & the "children" should be sitting in jail until mommy or daddy bails them out. That is unacceptable behavior.

If I were in this predicament I would install a good fence around the property & post it. I would prosecute any kid who crossed the property line. If he could afford night vision goggles he could afford night vision cameras.

[LisaL]

75. Sounds like it was some sort of

homecoming tradition for the teenagers. But the owner was not having fun with it. Seems like he tried to get help but was not getting anywhere. And finally the guy got fed up with it. What I want to know is that why he is being charged for what appears to be defending his own property.

[LisaL]

78. The goggles were given to him by his son.

But cameras seems like a good idea, they are not that expensive.

[wartrace]

79. I've been thinking about getting some cameras.

My problem is dumped animals & beer drinkers. First the beer drinkers. I live on a rural road & have a gate up at the road. The problem is the drunks who like to ride around see the area I have set aside before the gate as a natural spot to stop & take a leak. Unfortunately they see my chain & lock as a natural target to aim for. I have often thought about charging the gate but that would be cruel. I WOULD like to see who is doing it & inform the sheriff of a particular vehicle to BOLO for drunken driving. If I could establish a pattern the drunks would be put where they belong.
I would also LOVE to catch the individuals who dump their unwanted pets out on my road. It is a felony in the state of Tennessee to do that. I would love to see those people prosecuted for animal cruelty.

[wartrace]

77. It sounds as if the school should get involved.

From his letter;

"Normally 30 to 70 kids come at one time against me. How am I to protect my property, home, and family now? If anyone else is upset with being harassed and vandalized by these homecoming activities, please speak out to the powers that be to help stop it."

This is a result of "homecoming activites", it sounds as if they should cancel all future homecoming activities until the children can learn to respect other people. This poor guy should not have to put up with disrespectful children who threaten felony level crimes against him & his family.

Geez, the older I get the more I dislike young people. They no longer seem to have a sense of right & wrong. What if they push this guy too far? What if he goes off the deep end next year? Who will be responsible if some of those "little darlings" are injured or killed next year?

If this happens every year at homecoming I believe it is the schools responsibility to not have a homecoming. Obviously these children aren't responsible enough to handle it properly.

[stubtoe]

96. You're absolutely right. This is way out of control.

I can't believe that neither the school nor the parents have done anything about this for 8 years.

If I were the homeowner, I'd sell the house and move, just to get some long-deserved peace of mind.

[LisaL]

97. It's not easy to sell the house in this economy.

[Political Heretic]

88. Given the context, this isn't just friendly neighborhood pranking - and I hope charges are dismissed

[acmavm]

98. WTF??? 36 to 1 and this guy ends up the villian?

<snip>

The police took the names of 36 kids as they came out of the cornfield a mile away.

<snip<

This number of kids sleezing away from the scene doesn't say something about what was really going on?

[flvegan]

65. Wait a minute...hold on

So a fellow is on his property. Property that has been defaced in the past. He's on a watch to defend his property from "damage" and witnesses somewhere around 20 individuals charging said property to deface it again. He sprays them with an offensive yet harmless liquid, and HE is charged with a crime?

Congrats Willmar, Minnesota, you just became an honorary suburb of Stupidville, Florida.

[LisaL]

66. Exactly.

Is there anything one can do in Minnesota to defend ones property? Or WTF was this guy supposed to do exactly? Apparently this (teenagers defacing this guy's property) has been going on for years. Apparently, none of the teens have been arrested or charged for this. The guy finally did something to protect his property and now he is being charged. Seriously, WTF?

[globalvillage]

70. I used fox urine to get rid of a groundhog

It's the most humane way of dealing with pests I could find. Not sure my neighbor agrees with my method, as I think the groundhog just moved next door.

[carlyhippy]

72. This should get thrown out of court, and the brats' parents should be in trouble

I had my vehicle vandalized a while back, as did over half the cars in town, but 3 kids the police just couldn't catch. We have had so many ding-dong-ditchem stunts in our neighborhood that I finally had to disable the doorbell. The man was defending his property, it could have been worse. I hope this man doesn't get in trouble, those brats know they will get a slap on the wrist, the parents of the kids need to be punished and financially responsible, that should shut that down quick.

[L0oniX]

73. I hear that fox pee gets you high.

:evilgrin:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. That's cat pee don't you watch South Park.

[L0oniX]

93. Oh ...my bad n/t

:evilgrin:

[dysfunctional press]

81. unless he faces a jury full of juvenile-delinquent teenagers- he won't have any problems.

more power to him.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. We should start a defense fund, I hoped they charged the delinquents.

[LisaL]

92. From what I can figure out, these homecoming "pranks" have been

going for years, and the teens have not been charged.