I love my Honda. Because it doesn't break down.

[mudesi]

That is pretty much the crux of it all, people. Fords rust out, Chryslers break down, and anything made by GM may as well be permanently parked at a Goodwrench shop.

Hummers are the ugliest, most inefficient monstrosities in the world. Ford, apparently, is attempting to one up the hummer with this thing:


Meanwhile, I don't know what in the world Chrysler was smoking when they made this:


It's not the union, it's not unpatriotic Americans, it's not even the Republicans that are at fault here. It's the executives at the top of these three companies who didn't grasp the concept of "the long term", opting instead to produce garbage for short term profits.

American cars suck. They guzzle gas, they're ugly, and they break down. The Japanese know how to make a good car. So do the Germans, and so do the Italians. They know how because their governments have invested in education, and so their people know how to do math, for one thing. But that's a topic for another thread.

[Dennis Donovan]

1. American cars have improved exponentially in the last 15 years...

...so I have to disagree with you.:thumbsdown:

[mudesi]

10. You see what I'm talking about?

Do you know what it means for something to improve "exponentially"?

You probably meant "linearly" or "quadratically".

[Dennis Donovan]

11. Whatever...

Your post blows.:thumbsdown:

[Bill McBlueState]

79. this is actually a great example

of your "topic for another thread"

Good catch.

[bvar22]

150. Foreign cars SUCK.

My opinion is as valid as yours.
I currently own a GMC light truck, and a Ford light truck.
Love both of them, and neither has been in the shop for over 100,000 miles.
I support American LABOR and American Products.
The money stays here.

[VPStoltz]

162. My Volvo is going on 200K and is still pulling 23 mpg.

Not bad for a '78.
I bought it from an American. Does that count?

[Fire1]

181. I love my MALIBU and my Grand Cherokee before that!

[Sex Pistol]

178. My F-150 has never let me down. Then again, neither has my Toyota Forerunner.

I also have a '86 Toyota pickup that has gone over 360,000 miles. However, I have had Farm Use tags on it for the past 8 years.

[LuckyTheDog]

161. I also disagree with the OP

My Chevy is a great car.

[WillieW]

167. self deleted

Duplicate

[WillieW]

168. You disagree that I love my car?

[Sebass1271]

2. It doesn't matter what you think or prefer.. the majority of

Americans do support American Cars.. and even if you don't like them, it does not mean we should let 3 million american workers go down the tubes.

[LiberalFighter]

16. If American cars were such putz products they wouldn't sell so many of them.

[Orsino]

96. It does matter.

The majority of Americans seem nearly content to let the industry die--which tells me that the OP's point is correct, if exaggerated for effect.

Whatever Detroit does, and whatever it has done in recent years to improve, it hasn't been enough to win the hearts and minds.

[robinlynne]

117. Why does anyone think that a bailout will save the workers' jobs? GM already said in writing that it

wants to sue the money for the new factories it is building in Brazil.

[neverforget]

3. My 1999 Ford Ranger and 2001 Ford Escape have been nothing but

great to me.

[doc03]

32. Had a 1996 Ranger for 10 years, I put 116,000 miles on it

it never broke down, did only routine maintenance and it had absolutely no rust.

[Obamanaut]

83. I gave my daughter my Ford F150 (w/ 99,000 miles) when she

divorced and her ex husband got custody of their only vehicle - Dodge Ram truck w/ well over 100,000 miles. This was several years ago. He is still driving the Dodge, she traded the F150 for a Mitsubishi convertible which became unusable in less than 3 years, so now she drives a Ranger.

I have a Merc Sable w/ 45,000 miles. We have no problem with Ford products.

edited to add I stll see my old F150 from time to time in our small town. It's still running.

[Juche]

110. I own a 99 ford ranger too

XLT model. Bought it for 6k back in 2001 when it had 61k miles on it. It now has 137k and has had no serious problems other than needing new brake pads. I want to put 200k miles on it and/or keep it running until 2013 if I can.

I'm very happy with my Ford.

[OhioChick]

4. Disagree, as well.

BTW... Your link doesn't work.

[SharonAnn]

5. I love my Buick because it doesn't break down (110,000 miles). Neither did my

Pontiac, or my Chevrolet(s). And I had each of them at least 8 years, some of them over 10.

OK, I'm old.

But GM cars have been great for me, all my life!

[JCMach1]

90. I had 250k on my Buick that also got better gas mileage than

most new cars...

I gave it away for $500 when I left for overseas. You couldn't kill the thing!

[pettypace]

6. Agreed. America s%#ks

Wish they spoke English in Germania and Japanland so I can move there and enjoy their education and math and stuff.


Seriously though, can we not rally around our fellow citizens for a change, huh?

[FarCenter]

7. Italians make good cars? Fiat?

Otherwise, I tend to agree with you.

[QC]

17. Fix It Again, Tony!

Yes, I used to have a Fiat.

[Ikonoklast]

21. I will admit to once owning a Fiat.

I think the electrical system used by Turin was invented by hamsters.

[QC]

28. I loved my Fiat, but I am a forgiving soul when it comes to my cars.

And I was a lot younger then, too--at age at which having any car means the world.

It was a Strada!

[Ikonoklast]

36. I had a '72 124. Brother gave it to me, for free, in '76.

He always did hate me.

[QC]

40. There's an X19 here in town I see now and then.

That's still a very hot little car.

[Ikonoklast]

43. I think I know the reason why it's a 'hot little car' .

Bet the wiring is continuously shorting out.

:P

[tridim]

118. I just sold my 78 Spider to my brother for actual money.

He adores it.

Fiats are NOT bad cars unless they're rusted out. I've owned three, two X1/9's and one Spider. The second X1/9 was a little iffy, but the other two were amazing cars.

If you're lazy and don't maintain your Fiat it will eventually die, otherwise they can last longer than even modern cars. When's the last time you saw an 80's Pontiac Fiero on the road? I haven't seen one for almost 10 years because they're all gone. I still see Fiats all the time.

[Captain Hilts]

78. The Russian version for the Lada: Fix It Again Tovarich!

[NMDemDist2]

8. that's no longer true. American cars are showing comparable reliability ratings

as Japanese cars these days.

My old '91 Buick had over 170K miles on it with nothing breaking. My Olds has 90K on it and it runs like a top.

Japan makes a good car, but they do it here now with American workers, but the Big 3 make good cars too and the profits stay here, not back in Japan.

This is about Union busting and nothing else.

[Idealism]

9. You should read up on some recent facts

Consumer Reports put Ford's quality on par with Toyota and Honda this past year

GM sold the most cars of any automaker in the world, edging Toyota.

All myths can be found here, including the "they are the worst gas guzzlers ever!" bullshit

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008812050400

Please try to keep an open mind, these companies have made great strides since the 1980s

[kath]

19. The reliability may have improved, but the MPGs suck ass.

We have a 2003 Ford Focus, which is not a bad little car, (bought used, and right after the 30 day warranty ran out, we had to shell out $500 to have the key cylinder in the steering column replaced -- on a car that only had 35K miles! Sucked.) but for a small car the mileage is crappy - only gets around 23 or so mpg for my mix of around-town plus a little highway driving. I'm pretty sure the Civic and Corolla do a LOT better.

Heck, our 1990 Accord, which was a *much* larger car, got close to 30 mpg, & around 33 highway. Kept that sucker for 18 years - even when it was ancient and leaking oil, it STILL got 30 hwy.

[Idealism]

23. I would submit this quote to you from the article:

Myth No. 3: They build gas-guzzlers
Reality: All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans that the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway.

The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic.

A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.




I'm sorry to hear about your used Ford purchase, but when is "used" anything not a risk?

[Kalyke]

104. Stop using keychains with a brazillion keys and ornaments on it.

Or, maybe the person before you did.

That's usually the reason any key cylinder comes out.

And, where in the hell do you live that it cost $500? I had mine replaced in my 1995 Mustang (because I had a brazillion keys and ornaments hanging down) for about $60.

Not fussing at you, but I think you got snookered.

[kath]

133. It was a problem specific to Focuses made around that time, which I

found out when I Googled it at the time. And others with the problem (via the Google) had been charged about the same amount. The key cylinder didn't come out - it was all jammed up. It had been a little funky, then one day the key went in but wouldn't budge - I couldn't turn the key and couldn't remove it. Had to have the car towed to get it repaired. Something about Ford using a cheap Chinese part, such that metal filings accumulated within the cylinder mechanism and eventually caused it to fail. Like everything else, things are a lot more expensive to replace these days because of the computerization and other factors.

Nothing else on the keychain ever except the clicker (remote opening thingy) and one house key (at least when we had it. don't know about previous owner, but it only had 30 -35 K miles on it). Lots of Focus owners had this problem. Ford has been notoriously bad for decades for things like door and window handles. The interior door handles on ours feel like they're going to snap off every time you use them -- really freaked us out when we first got it, but we've gotten used to it.

[piedmont]

190. The reason it cost so much was that they had to replace the whole steering column.

My wife's 2000 Focus did the same thing, luckily under warranty. As I recall, the steering column is made so that the lock cylinder can NOT be replaced seperately, as an anti-theft measure.
But that was pretty much the only problem we've had with the car, and it now has around 135,000 miles on it, and gets about 30 mpg mixed city/highway. If you're getting significantly less, you probably need a tune-up.

[RobinA]

138. I've Driven and Put Gas

in both the Focus and the Civic. Focus is quite a bit better on gas and in the snow. Other than that I prefer the Civic.

[kath]

140. what kind of mileage are (or were) you getting, and what year is your car?

Our mileage seems like crap for such a little car - as I said, our much larger Accord got much better mileage, even when it was freakin' ancient. Mileage on cars (at least on those obtainable in the US) seems to have really DECREASED in the past 20 years, I guess because CAFE standards were lifted... Really sucks.

[GrizzlyMan]

44. They are talking about initial quality ratings

That's very different from long term reliability. That's where American made cars sometimes suffer.

[krispos42]

65. So do Japanese cars...

...expecially when that timing belt breaks and you ram your valves through your pistons. THAT'S expensive. But those high-compression engines get more thermodynamic efficiency, so what the hell, right?

But hey, a belt's a touch quieter than a durable steel chain, and cheaper to boot, so we'll go with that instead.

And putting the water pump IN the engine, dragging off that timing belt... brilliant!

For Honda mechanics.





Seems to me that if you're going to make an engine where the pistons and the valves occupy the same physical space during operation, and are only kept from collision by means of precise mechanical timing, then using a durable, lubricated steel chain makes a lot more sense than a rubber belt that has to be changed every 60,000 miles.

But those oh-so-intelligent engineers overseas just don't see it that way.

But what do I know? I flunked out of engineering school.




And now I own one of those timing-belt engines. I guess we'll see what happens, won't we?

I hope it's not an interference-engine.





I hope I never find out! :-)

[GrizzlyMan]

142. Well, only a dumbass doesnt have his t-belt changed at certain mileage intervals

I had the TB changed on my Honda by simply following the suggestions in the owners manual. For all I know it could have gone another 100k. I find that if you take care of anything mechanical, it will last longer. Even shitty American cars which I have owned in the past. Key word being in the past.

[tabasco]

157. I have a 4-banger Toyota with a timing chain.

Cheapest Toyota model you could buy at the time. 1.5l Echo.

The only car I ever owned with a timing belt was a Chevrolet.

[michreject]

69. Since Roger Smith left actually

The X platform almost did in GM.

[QC]

12. You've never owned an Italian car, haven't you?

And my BMW, as much as I adore it, is as temperamental as Maria Callas. It's beautiful to look at and a delight to drive, but no one would ever call it dependable.

You really need to get out more.

[nc4bo]

13. One man's trash is another man's treasure....

I like my PT but I'd liked it a lot better if the Made in Mexico sticker was located directly under the hood, preferably near the battery instead of hiding it inside a passenger door jam.

[stillcool]

14. I've always driven American cars...

I crashed a few... drove them to their final resting places. Ah..the memories! But in my more adult years I've had much healthier experiences. Maintenance works wonders.

[Lex]

15. I have a 8 year old PT Cruiser. It's not broken down once.

Just regular maintenance only.

Have a problem with that?

[GrizzlyMan]

46. My company has PT cruisers as their primary fleet cars.

No offense, but they're dogs. I hate driving them.

[Lex]

106. I love mine. It's a gem. Comfortable and fun to drive.

But to each his own.

[MineralMan]

98. My 80-year-old mother-in-law recently bought a PT Cruiser

We took her around looking at cars. She chose the PT Cruiser because it was the only car she tried that was easy for her to get in and out of. She has arthritic knees and hips. Its ride is a little harsh, but she only drives about 2000 miles per year.

It was a program car, with 11,000 miles and carried the remainder of the warranty. For another $800 she bought the lifetime power-train warranty.

She's a happy old lady, and thinks she looks sporty driving the thing around in her red hat.

[Lex]

108. I know several people who have them and love them.

They are quite versatile and appealing to a wide range of people. And it's not a huge SUV or mini-van at least. Very zippy in and out of spaces, and a variety of ways to configure the back area of the car.

[JerseygirlCT]

144. I'm glad for you

Sure wasn't our experience. Constantly breaking down. Add to it a lousy dealership with the worst customer service in the world, and you can bet it will be a long, long, long time before I even consider thinking about a Chrysler again.

They've got a lot to prove as far as I'm concerned.

[Lex]

147. We've actually bought a 2nd one and it's just as problem free.

The first one was a 2001 model, and now we have a 2003 model. Both paid for. Both problem free.

Sorry you had a bad experience. :(

[Luciferous]

160. PT cruisers are made in Mexico

so American workers aren't even making those...

[Lex]

184. Yeah, I know. Still, I've been pleased with it.

nt

[DBoon]

18. I've got my consumer reports Buying Guide 2009

In terms of reliability, they rate many Japanese models as "highly reliable".

Some American cars do pretty well though - they don't rate in the highest category but are still above average.

Note that average reliability is likely better now that 10 or 20 years ago.

I don't doubt American cars have improved greatly.

Also reliability isn't the only criteria for buying a car. Consumer reports lists many American cars as recommended buys.

[WillieW]

24. My car is British, almost 18 years old and I love it..

[RobinA]

145. My British Car

is 36 years old and has been parked for quite some time now. Parked is where it belongs. Real nice to look at, a bit of a challenge to drive. It was fine when I was right out of college, but now I'm middle-aged and want a car with heat that drives through intersections instead of breaking down in them.

[tuckessee]

20. Sounds like my Nissan truck. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

22. I've been very happy with my American cars.

And I keep my cars for a very long time.:-)

And I'll always remember when I told the owner of my local garage that if and when I got a new car, I wanted a Peugeot (since I had witnessed four friends survive a horrific crash a few summers before, and the body of the car, a Peugeot, absolutely held together, stayed in one piece, though the doors fell off and the car was halfway up a tree... ;().

And his answer was: "Where ya gonna get it fixed?!":shrug:

[Snarkoleptic]

25. My 9-year old Pontiac has 148,000 miles on it.

I replaced the HVAC fan once; added two cans of coolant and three quarts of (non-oil change) engine oil.
I've had oil changes every 6K miles (or so) and have kept up on other misc. maintenance.
It's got the original exhaust and has been very low maintenance.
Take your Honda and hammer it up your ass.
Buy American.

[Snarkoleptic]

27. BTW

I forgot to mention that my wife had a Civic with a clunky transmission and an annoying rattle from a loose heat shield.
Also, it failed to start on a 10-degree F Chicago morning and needed to be towed after 3-years of light service.
We'll never again buy a hONDA.

[ChromeFoundry]

51. My Pontiac has 110K

I don't know how many of the parts were made in the USA, but I do know it was assembled here. I know my purchase will continue to support the American worker through the after market parts industry. And whatever I cannot service on my own will be serviced through a genuine GM shop. I have never owned a foreign vehicle (not even a used one), and hopefully never will...

Buy American!

[kristopher]

26. Honda has only one explicit advantage of other makers - and you pay for it.

Their quality control criteria for their purchasers are much more strict than any other maker. GM, Ford. Toyota, Nissan etc all have about the same tolerance for rate of component failure from suppliers. For example, a given switch might be required to have fewer than 1 in 1000 failures in testing (a fairly standard goal). Since a car has approximately 10,000 parts, that means there are about 10 defects per car as they roll off the line.

Honda's secret was to set a goal of zero tolerance for defective parts from suppliers. All their suppliers are required to demonstrate a rate of zero defects in 10,000 tested components.

That costs a lot of extra money. Some people think it is worth it; some people don't. Personally, I don't.

[madrchsod]

49. just about every bolt and screw in a honda

is a grade better than anyone else..to bad they bought transmissions from gm in the late 90`s and early 2000`s.

[catzies]

50. My '98 Accord had one of those crappy trannies. But I kept it 9 years until selling

it and getting my 2008 Accord, which I LOVE LOVE LOVE.




I've owned nothing but Hondas for coming up on 25 years now.

[madrchsod]

59. my daughters is a 2001

if she can keep working at her auto parts supplier job ,she`ll be able to afford to fix it.....

[grace0418]

101. I think it's worth it because all I've ever had to do is change the oil and go in for standard

maintenance over the course of the last 10 years with my Civic. The only problem we ever had was related to an accident where my husband ran into a tree that fell on a very dark stretch of an access road. The condenser was cracked and the first repair wasn't thorough enough. But that's not Honda's fault. In fact, I was really impressed at how well the car came out of that accident considering the speed we were traveling when we hit the tree. That alone convinced me we bought the right car.

[SmileyRose]

166. Your perspective was enlightening to me.

it pushed my thinking regarding car quality to a different place and I thank you for that.

[doc03]

29. I love my 1999 Mercury Tracer it has

130,000 miles and has never failed to run in 10 years. Have only done routine maintenance on it, it gets 30 MPG around home and 37 mpg on the highway and by the way it doesn't have any rust.

Oh, some of the Fords have better quality records than your Hondas.

[GrizzlyMan]

48. They have better INITIAL quality ratings in some cases

Very different from long term reliability.

[knitter4democracy]

135. I miss my old Tracer hatchback sometimes.

That thing ran like a gem.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[doc03]

37. These are the same people who only drink imported beer,

wine (if it's from another country, it's better no matter what the product) and most never did a days physical labor in their pitiful lives. Don't waste your time with them.

[swishyfeet]

60. Yeah, they're not "Real Americans"

Is that you Joe?

That's about the most ridiculously ignorant post I've ever read.

[JVS]

66. Are you referring to Joe from that movie in the early 1970's?

If so, :yourock:

[gollygee]

75. I thought he meant Sen. Joe McCarthy? n/t

[michreject]

70. I don't know what was said that you replied to

But I love your reply.

[spoony]

86. Apparently it's a no-no to tell these wankers off

Maybe I hurt his widdle feewings? Anyway, you're right. The only problem is that idiots like that are in government, too, and we HAVE to waste our time with those ones.

[taught_me_patience]

55. Where the fuck were you when the apparel industry died

oh yeah... probably in wal-mart buying shit made in china. Auto workers - important

Apparel industry workers - not important
Semiconductor manufacturer workers - not important
Consumer goods industry workers - not important

Get off your high horse.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[guruoo]

31. Owned six Hondas over ten years. Drove hell out of them all. Raced three. Zero mechanical failures.

Not one water pump.
Not one Alternator.
Not one CV axle.
Nothing.

All I had to replace were normal wearing parts
such as tires, pads, shoes, oil, and gas.

Today I have a 96 Thunderbird, and a 98 Buick.
Both have proven quite reliable so far.

[doc03]

35. I owned Fords since 1973 and I had one transmission

go out, it was made by none other than (Mitsubishi).

[Diclotican]

85. guruoo

guruoo

Hello. Very funny you have Norwegian reg number on your plates;)... Are you from Norway?

Have not have Honda, just 3 Nissan and one Toyota Corolla.. Have now an Nissan Primera SRI.. Old police car so it is little more power under the hood than ordinary Primera have... Very fun to drive then:hi:

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[guruoo]

156. Naa, wish it was my car....

I'm actually just a little bit south, and west of you,
-in Tennessee! :hi:

(your English is just fine)

[JohnnyRingo]

33. My '97 Regal is the most dependable vehicle I've ever owned

The alternator broke a couple years ago, but I hate to call it a lemon for that.

Apparently those Japanese cars heal themselves and make you coffee in the morning, but I'd buy another Buick if I ever need a car again.

[texastoast]

34. There are some GREAT American cars

Generalizations are just wrong unless you qualify them as generalizations.

However, I will agree with you that there were some stupendously stupid executive decisions made. Those guys who made them (and most of them are not on the boards now) should have to pay.

And the tax laws should be changed so that no failing executive gets a damned dime when his decisions have caused underlings to lose jobs. That failing executive should have to pay for the unemployment.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. The ITALIANS make good cars? Ever own a..

Fiat.

Or try to get an Alfa started when it rains?

[TreasonousBastard]

39. Never mind-- somone beat me to it. But it still shows..

you don't know shit about cars.

[Captain Hilts]

80. NOTHING falls apart like a FIAT. Nothing. nt

[tridim]

119. My 78 Fiat Spider was solid as a rock.

It still is, but it's my brother's car now.

[Captain Hilts]

120. Friend of mine had one - cool car - and one day it threw hot water on the passenger's feet!

[tridim]

126. Well, rubber hoses can fail after 30+ years of use..

It's the nature of rubber with pressurized hot water and antifreeze flowing through it. Certainly not a problem exclusive to Fiats.

[Captain Hilts]

137. It wasn't an old car by ANY standard!! Just a few years.

Another friend had one and the door almost fell off.

[TreasonousBastard]

170. I had a '69 850 Spider, and...

as much as I loved driving that car, damn near every part fell off. The driver's seat even popped its cheap welds and flopped around.

Finally, the head cracked. After about a whole 30,000 miles.

[Lugnut]

41. My Buick doesn't break down.

I have 68,000 miles on this one so far. The last Buick had 165,000 miles on it when I sold it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. 1998 Pontiac Bonneville here. Nearly 140k miles, and still going. So I

completely disagree with your assessment. What's ironic is that the "America First" crowd are the ones who are willing to put "American" workers on the unemployment lines, while driving their big expensive imports, to the local RNC meeting. It sucks that many states are running out of unemployment funds. Can you imagine the impact of 2 to 3 million newly unemployed Americans on the system?

Please people, get a grip.

[madrchsod]

45. the italians make good cars?

car of the year--chevy...last year car of the year-ford

safest car sold in the usa-ford......

i`ve owned cars from sweden,england,germany,france,japan,and the usa and everyone had their good and bad points.

right now i own a 86 crx that`s on jack stands and a 94 toyota with 100,000 miles because that`s all i can afford.

[Waiting For Everyman]

47. Neither does my 10 yo Chevy Malibu, bought new. n/t

[madrchsod]

52. 246,000 miles on a 97 dodge interpid

one transmission and the engine still had no vibration at idle. 25-30 mpg at cruising speeds with plenty of room in the cabin.

[lithiumbomb]

53. you obviously know nothing about cars

It's not 1985 anymore, or even 1995. Such generalizations don't work at all.

The Americans are generally on par with the Japanese at this point with their newest products, they probably were not 5 years ago. The best American car you can probably buy today is a Ford Fusion. Look it up. The Saturn Aura is also quite good, as well as the Chevy Malibu. The two GM offerings are available as hybrids, the Fusion will be available as a hybrid in 2010. Current media preview tests have it getting 42 mpg in all-around driving.

Generally below average are the Europeans. I love my Volkswagen, but it's not a low maintenance vehicle by any means.

Do the Americans still have some catching up to do in the quality department? Yes. Are they selling 1980s quality crap? No way.

I recommend browsing JD Power, Edmunds, and Consumer Reports to start your research journey.

[Yes We Did]

54. I'll let my mom know that, cuz her ford 500 sucks.

2006 Ford 500 and it's been in the shop three times; most recently for the calipers seizing up and eating through her rotors.

Meanwhile... my 96' pathfinder just had it's brakes replaced for the first time.

[Adsos Letter]

56. My 2001 Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton has 208,000+ miles on it....

Other than regular oil changes and servicing, the only thing I have put into it has been a fuel pump.

I have always had good luck with Chevy trucks...

[taught_me_patience]

57. I completely agree with this post

I own a Honda. Besides reliability, the resale value is much greater than american cars. Of course, this probably has something to do with reliability.

[Fading Captain]

58. Republicans and Fake Democrat Honda drivers can go to hell

Because that little bit of money they think they save on price/resale/repairs won't cover what they'll pay in taxes when millions of pensioners lose their pension, entire communities fall into disrepair, etc.

[gollygee]

74. GM isn't going to keep your job here just because US cars sell well

This is such a false statement. My town had a GM plant. The cars (actually light trucks) were selling very well. They were profitable. GM left anyway. And our community fell into disrepair despite the plant being profitable. If they're profitable here, they can still be MORE profitable in Mexico, and off they'll go.

[spoony]

64. Yeah you've made it clear where you stand

so you can shove your "where were you when our apparel industry..." phony bullshit.

[tomreedtoon]

171. Oh. Unless we suck up to UAW we're anti-union?

Your posts are offensive and blindly angry. You have a reason to be angry, but your anger is misfocussed. Why aren't you picketing your idiot bosses for making crappy cars? Why aren't you occupying the Republican offices of the senators who killed your industry? When did fighting for union rights turn into whining about all the people who no longer love you unconditionally?

It's been a long time since River Rouge.

[zagging]

61. Cool. See how Honda killed the electric car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BMJ9U3TMg4&feature=related

You don't even have to suffer through the whole thing. Jump to 3:25 in this fun video to see Honda crush its EVs. Jump back to 2:10 to see Toyota join in the fun.

[krispos42]

62. I sold my 1989 Olds a few weeks ago

Full-size sedan, seats six, big trunk. 194,000 miles, not a speck of rust on it, original engine and tranny with everything still original (to my knowledge, at least; got it used). Never once failed to start and got 23 MPG at 80mph.


The car had it's flaws, no doubt about it. Paint job sucked, headliner collapsed, leaky windshield and some probably-related wiring problems towards the end. And the steering column was a little bit broken.


Also had an '87 T-Bird. No rust on that thing either. All-original engine and tranny, never failed to start, etc. Okay, Ford could have made a stronger driver's seat. But that car had 255,000 on it before the head gasket finally blew.


That's my experience with them.


My 2005 Subaru has quite a large pair of shoes to fill.

[Captain Hilts]

81. Just gave my '89 Olds Cutlass Ciera to my brother. Runs like a top. nt

[susanna]

116. I had an '85 Cutlass Ciera.

That thing Would Not Die. It ran forever. I finally sold it with 175,000 miles on the odometer - and still see the thing puttering around town. The body has held up admirably. My dad inherited my grandmother's '86 Ciera when she passed, and it's still running like a champ. Great little cars, IMHO.

[Captain Hilts]

121. An '86 probably didn't have the paint fall off. The new EPA regs screwed up that whole year's cars.

Jeeps were the worst for the paint coming off.

[krispos42]

130. How was the interior?

As a side note, if the car's 20 years old, it's either running like a top or dead! :-)


20 years is plenty long enough to weed out the badly-made cars.



Hmmmm...


I guess the measure of a car line's quality would be to figure out what percentage of a model line is still up and running 20 years later.

Like, is the percentage of 1989 Honda Civics still registered greater than the percentage of Ford Escorts, when compared to each model's respective units sold.

[sufrommich]

67. I love my Ford because it doesn't break down and my

purchase helps keep friends,family and neighbors from being forced to race to the bottom of the wage war in America.

[madokie]

68. I say screw your honda

You not so much but that car can go :-0

Ok, the next time you are on the hiway check out how many old hondas you see in comparisons to how many old fords you see. Then get back with me on who builds a good vehicle.

[JNelson6563]

71. I've always bought American and never had problems.

I've had Chevys, Pontiacs and currently drive a Dodge--no problems.

Julie

[Medusa]

72. I had a honda. It STAYED in the shop.

Was the crappiest piece of shit I've ever owned. I vowed then and there never to own another Honda.

[AngryOldDem]

73. I have 1988 Chevy Nova.

Body by GM, everything else by Toyota. It's slowly dying of old age, but it has been a dependable little car.

[alarimer]

76. They simply do not make anything I want to buy.

The cars are ugly and boring. There are too many gas guzzlers. I don't know whether they are more reliable or not. I had a few problems with my Saturn before I got rid of it but it wasn't too bad.

The one exception is that Dodges DO really suck. We have used Dodge trucks until fairly recently. They break down A LOT more than either Fords or Chevys. My employer simply crunched the numbers: more repairs and more expensive repairs for the Dodges compared to other vehicles. So our agency stopped buying them. My office had three at one time (1999 and 2002 models) that were each in the shop for new transmissions, new dashboards (how the hell do ALL the dashboards break anyway? My own personal vehicles have sat outside all the time and have NEVER had a dashboard crack), new headliners, and all kinds of other, sometimes major, sometimes just stupid, shit. This last year alone, in a vehicle that had 80K miles on it, we put in at least $3000 in repairs. The truck isn't even worth that much but we can't get rid of it until we have at least 100k miles on it. I am not sure it will make it that far. Ram tough my ass!

[Captain Hilts]

77. My two late 80s Oldsmobiles were maintenance-free. My 2000 VW needs more repair. nt

[Diclotican]

87. MookieWilson

MookieWilson

It is a big difference between the wiring in a 1980 car and the wiring in a 2001 model car.. So of course the WV would be more maintained than your late Oldsmobile...

Like my "new" used Nissan Primera. Can't just work under the hood anymore, because it is full of electronic stuff.. My Toyota Corolla was easy to maintain, because for the most it was not electronic.. When the ignition failed, just go to the scrap jard, fine one Corolla and take out the ignition motor... And replace it with the "new" one.. That is one of the very few problem I had the 4 year I had my Corolla.. And when I had to drive it to the scrap jard, it have more than 325.000km on it... And the engine was in pretty good shape yet..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[Captain Hilts]

99. Yes, true. But stuff like the water pump, etc. goes faster too.

My 1974 Mercury Capri is basically WWII technology. Maintenance for that is very different.

You write well in English.

[Diclotican]

114. MookieWilson

MookieWilson

The reason the water pump and so on is going faster is maybe because the metal is different, and maybe even a lot of the other system are made with a lesser tolerance to failure and so on.. I know my Corolla from 1987 have a large tollarance to failure, compared to my Nissan who are 10 year younger... I have to get the sheck up more frequent than with my corolla who I could fix on my own...

Cool, the maintains for your Mercury from 1974 must be interesting, to some degree that is.. But as times goes by it is more difficult to track parts to your old car then?.. I know many cars who are old enough are a nightmare to get parts too. Some you have to make on your own too.. Specially when the car is from prewar condition... On the other hand it is maybe more Mercury out there in the states than in Norway..:think:

;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[Nye Bevan]

82. My 1995 Honda Accord is still going strong

In 13.5 years I have had *one* mechanical problem.

OTOH my previous car (Pontiac) had to go back for a new transmission within the first month after I bought it (new). And my Jeep broke down on the highway and needed a new *engine*. Not to mention countless squeaks and rattles etc. from both of these American cars.

I have to laugh when the American car commercials say stuff like "$2000 less than Camry!" Paying the extra for the Camry is the best $2000 you will ever spend.

[IndianaJones]

84. asian cars suck. nt.

[sofa king]

88. In fifteen years, all of you are going to be arguing over bicycles and shoes.

And the GMC Suburban will rule the roost again because you can house a family of five in it.

[dionysus]

89. funny, i like my buick just fine, all i ever have to do is change the oil and get new tires.

sorry but thats a tooly OP.

[ogneopasno]

91. That's nice. I love my Fords because they don't break down, *AND* I know that the people who made

them got a living wage that they bargained for. AND it was made in the USA. It's awesome all around.

[8 track mind]

92. Oh please........

My dad got 365,000 miles out of a 1985 Chevy El Camino, The first year for the fuel injected V-6. The only thing that stopped it was a deer early one morning: the impact split the radiator, overheated the engine and damaged the block. He was still able to drive it home.

My 1972 Chevy Pick up has nearly 500k on it. I have recently upgraded it to a fuel injected drive-train with an overdrive transmission out of a wrecked GMC van. It went from 8 MPG to 17 MPG and it wasn't even running right. Right now i am tweaking the computer so it can run on E85.

My folks have consistently got over 200k out of every GM vehicle they have ever owned.

Yes the big three have made some horribly stupid decisions over the years, for example:

Cadillac's 4-6-8 system

Dodge's 'Lean Burn System' or better yet the burned valve/cracked head system

The Ford Pinto

The Chevy Vega Aluminum Block 4 cylinder. Smoke bomb after 10,000 miles.


Now lets do a cost comparison on engine builds. I'm presently restoring a 1987 Mitsubishi Starion, a two door turbocharged hell raiser. Here's the parts cost so far compared with a typical Chevy V-8 rebuild:

CHEVY / Mitsubishi

Pistons $265.00 for 8 / $512.00 for 4

Cylinder heads $180.00 for two (rebuilt) / $473.00 for a new casting, no valves or springs(no one rebuilds these, they crack)

Timing Chain $30.00 Double roller, heavy duty / $120.00 with balance shaft elimination kit

Main Bearings $35.00 / $80.00

Rod Bearings $30.00 / $65.00

Gaskets $80.00 / $120.00


American stuff is easy to work on, easier to troubleshoot, and parts are reasonable and readily available. Japanese stuff all though very well engineered, can be VERY expensive to fix and most parts are "dealer only" items.

[codjh9]

93. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree very little with you.

1) The Ford you show barely has any resemblance to a Hummer whatsoever. It's a FAR more fuel-efficient large vehicle for someone or some family that still needs to carry a lot of stuff. (25 mpg hwy if I remember correctly).
2) What's wrong with the PT Cruiser? What's wrong with a 'retro' look? And again, I don't think the mpg is that bad. Given that Dodge/Chrysler usually harps on POWER and macho bullshit most of the time, I'd say this was one of their BETTER products by far.
3) As numerous articles & studies have shown in recent years, American cars are far better and more reliable than they were 20-30 years ago. The unreliable tag is more of a holdover perception than reality. I have a 2000 Ford Ranger with 92,500 miles on it that's had mostly only routine maint. done to it.

Now, having said all of that, I've had a Honda, two Mazdas, and a VW, in addition to a few American vehicles. Japanese vehicles DID have the upper hand in quality for a while, and they also are miles ahead on hybrid technology and forward thinking. BUT, as with most issues, this one isn't as black and white as many want to make it.

[JVS]

94. The PT cruiser is actually a fairly good car wrapped in hideous sheet metal.

A tall Neon with plenty of cargo space and efficiency.

[RainDog]

105. philistines! a PT Cruiser looks like an old bentley

and if you can't appreciate how cute that is... then you can't.

however, I don't understand why anyone would rag on the PT for its form. that's like ragging on VW for making a Beetle.

[Lex]

109. Some people enjoy

"sameness" in their vehicles. Anything that's a little different they label as ugly. That's the only thing I can figure.

I think the PTs looks like the 1951 Ford Station Wagon:

[Gold Metal Flake]

95. My Hondas rusted more and faster than my Fords.

My Focus gets great gas mileage and does not break down.

I have been working on my own cars since age 11. I rebuild my engine and transmissions, and I am familiar with every system on a car. I know more than you do about cars. Your OP contains gross generalizations and straw men. As noted above, your OP blows.

I also know that this is now an open war against every worker in this nation. I will not reward my enemies by buying their products. I will not buy a Honda, I will not buy a Mini. I would buy another Focus.

Enjoy your depression. You and your southern Senator friends.

[8 track mind]

129. amen!

Major gearhead myself!

[DainBramaged]

97. Insanity is not just limited to peope who took too many drugs in their lifetime

[we can do it]

100. I've Has 3 z24 Cavaliers - Absolutely Problem Free, Great Running Cars

how about those honda timing chain time bombs?

[DonEBrook]

102. My 1982 Civic is still going strong. You will see VERY few 26 year old American

cars on the road. Q.E.D.

[knitter4democracy]

136. You must not live in Michigan.

I see them all the time up here.

[GrizzlyMan]

139. I call bullshit.

[knitter4democracy]

151. I'd love to have you come visit.

:) I'll show you all around.

[Enthusiast]

175. Same in Ohio.

And my son has close to 200,000 miles on his Ford SUV with Zero problems. We need to keep American manufacturers! American manufacturing won WWII!

[TwilightGardener]

103. I love my Jeep. Never breaks down. Nor did my Ford Escort, my Dodge Caravan,

or my Chevy Silverado. Loved them. And I love supporting American industry and American labor. No guilt here--good, dependable cars and a clean conscience.

[Scout]

127. i just bought a '94 Cherokee Sport

it's in great shape for a 14 year old vehicle. very little rust, everything works, and it's in good shape inside and outside. starts right up every morning, even on these cold michigan days. our other car is a 2000 Grand Cherokee that we bought used, and we've had no problems with it.

I loved my Ford Escort GT!

[LSK]

107. Wow an elistist America bashing post, way to feed the Freepers stereotypes of us

Good job.

[earth mom]

111. What holier than thou B.S!

My dh and I have a Jeep with 130K miles on it-bought it used 5 years ago. 80K miles later-it has NEVER been in the shop.

Same goes for the other brand new Jeep & the Ford F150 we had in the 90s that we put 150K miles on each.

Same goes for the two 20+ year old Vans we've owned in the past 10 years.

And so on and so forth.

Oh and btw, I got rid of the two Toyotas I owned in the 80s because it was like driving around in tin buckets!


FYI-ALL the U.S. made cars dh and I have owned have served us EXTREMELY well over the past 20 years.

But I didn't feel the need to start a thread about it to prove I'm better & smarter than everyone else.

:eyes:

[EOTE]

112. Yes, shame on Ford for making an 8 passenger vehicle that gets 25 mpg.

What an incredibly stupid poost. American cars guzzle gas? Well I guess that means that most Japanese cars guzzle even more gas. The Focus and Cobalt get better fuel economy than their Japanese counterparts. Ugly for cars is fairly subjective. However, stupid is not. And you've proven that you know absolutely zilch about cars from the content of your post.

[raccoon]

113. All I can say is, pass me the

:popcorn:

[tridim]

115. I loved my new 2000 Acura Integra because I had to sell it in 2001..

And I sold it for only $800 less than I bought it for.

I agree that some American cars are much better than they used to be, some are even very good cars, but they still don't hold their value like Japanese autos.

[Marrah_G]

122. My 2000 Dodge grand caravan has had no problems

I love it.

It's been a great car.

[Fading Captain]

123. You Love your Honda, I hate "me-first" Americans

I can't believe how many of them there are on DU.

[Politicalboi]

124. I have a 2000 Ford Ranger

With 186,000. I have NEVER had a problem with it. I have only had to replace my brakes last summer. And I like what Chrysler was smoking when they made the PT Cruiser. I had a rice burner back in the 80's and never had one since and probably never again. Give me Ford Ranger over any Mitsubishit or Toyota. Toyota trucks used to use foam filler for their upholstery. Now the big 3 need to go green and make alternative fuel.

[OneBlueSky]

125. well, I drive a Toyota Camrey now, but for 16 years I drove a GEO Prizm . . .

is that an American car or a Japanese car? . . . I know it's essentially a Toyota Corolla, and it was made in this country by Chevy, so I guess it's American . . . anyhow, after 16 years it didn't owe me a penny, even though repairs over the years included replacing the entire engine while the car was still under warranty . . . after that, no problems at all . . .

actually, the best vehicle I ever owned was a 1967 (I think) Dodge pickup . . . it had one of those slant six Dodge engines that you couldn't kill with a sledghammer . . . truck was still running fine when I ultimately sold it in 1993 . . .

[Liberal_in_LA]

164. had two Geo prizms. loved 'em

[Brazenly Liberal]

128. ridiculous generalization

We own two Fords. One was purchased in 1992 and has more than 300,000 miles on it. Both start first time every time, run well, and get good mileage (33-39 mpg). Our neighbor's Honda is a piece of shit.

You have a Honda you're happy with? Great! I hope it runs well for you for many years to come. But to extrapolate that experience to all Hondas and whatever personal story you have with Ford to all Fords - nay, all American cars - is ludicrous. There are Japanese, German, and Italian cars that use far more gas than my car does without getting me to where I'm going any more efficiently.

[PlanetBev]

131. I'm on my 5th Honda

After that 1972 Ford Pinto, I went to Japanese cars and never looked back.

[GrizzlyMan]

146. Similar experience here

My first car was an 1984 Ford Bronco II which was just three years old when I got it. It was a real piece of shit. Transmission problems. Engine problems. Every kind of problems.

My second experience with a 'Merican car was a brand new 1994 Jeep Cherokee. I loved that car. It looked great and drove pretty well too, even though there was a fuel censor problem early, before the warranty was up. Then the higher the mileage went, the more problems it had.

In between those cars I've had Hondas and Toyotas. I will admit my 1984 Prelude wasn't all that great. But my Camry and Accord have been terrific cars.

No more American cars for me, no matter how much the new DU Nationalism Party pisses and moans about it.

[Enthusiast]

179. Pintos get my vote for the

very worst American car in history. It is not representative of Americans in general. It also has no relevance as they have not been made for years.

[Enthusiast]

180. Strike that, the Vega

would take top honors with the Pinto in second place.

[skooooo]

132. PT Cruisers rock..

So bite me!

[knitter4democracy]

134. I love my Ford because it doesn't break down.

My Subaru's tranny sure did, so it was time for that to go, and I replaced it with my Ford Freestyle (now the Taurus X). Best car I've ever had, hands-down.

[JerseygirlCT]

141. Those ARE two UGLY cars!

We had the misfortune to own a PT Loser for a while. So glad when we got rid of that thing. Had to have it towed to the dealer, though. Broke down for good two days before our new car was in! I hated that thing!

[Lex]

148. What kind of car do you have now

if you don't mind saying.

My PT has never given me a moment's trouble.

[JerseygirlCT]

149. VWs

a Passat replaced the Loser, and my Subaru met with an unfortunate accident, so was replaced with a Jetta. Quite happy with both, and no problems thus far. I miss my Subaru, though, I admit. Nothing was like that in snow!

Oh and I should add, my husband doesn't think the Loser was ugly, either. (So apologies, since you and I don't agree on that count, either.) But I just always did. We both agreed it was an awful car. And especially in snow! Oh my. The driveway had to be absolutely clear of any trace of ice or snow for that stinker to make it up! Don't miss those days!

[Lex]

154. My best friend has a VW station wagon and loves it.

They are great cars.

[JerseygirlCT]

155. yes

I've got a good friend whose Jetta is now more than 13 years old. She won't let go of it. I'm hoping mine lasts like that!

[azmouse]

143. I love my Chevys and my Chrysler. They don't break down.

You couldn't pay me to drive a Honda or Toyota. Just not my cup of tea.

[backwoodsbob]

152. really

my camaro ran for 7 years before I moved to Virginia where it wouldn't be practical and was never in the shop for anything but scheduled stuff.

Currently have a 2005 Grand Am V6 sts. 60,000 miles and zero breakdowns.
Wife traded in her 2004 impala which had NEVER broke down for a 2007 impala which,again,has never broke down.

I've NEVER had a lemon GM and will keep buying them if they survive this

[LynneSin]

153. My old Pontiac Grand Am got 160k miles before it died

Mind you half the battle of keeping a car that long is doing routine checkups.

[sarcasmo]

158. My Saturn does not suck!

[LuckyTheDog]

159. The Ford Flex (which you show) is a great car

Really good for families.

GM makes more 30 MPG+ cars than Toyota. Did you know that?

Ford's quality exceeds Toyota's and Honda's.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SmileyRose]

165. My Honda broke down often - and was VERY expensive to fix.

Starting around 50,000 miles it started having $200-800 a month repairs almost every month. I was lucky, it finally caught fire and the comprehensive coverage on my insurance gave me the downpayment for an Escort - yeah, and Escort. Which gave me almost 200,000 miles before it got to major repairs and even though plenty of time and inflation went by since the Honda days, it still cost me less than the car was worth to have the engine rebuilt. I just got rid of that 1984 Escort 2 years ago and it's still on the road. The Honda was a cinder after the fire and thank Gawd I wasn't a cinder too.

Anecdotal like yours, we all have our experiences. But when the actual facts of various carmakers total lineup is looked at, it's not factually possible to claim Honda has a superior, more cost effective product.

[colinmom71]

182. Similar experience here....

I had a 1985 Honda Prelude (used), and it was a total lemon! That damn thing wound up in the shop about every 2-3 months. Finally got fed up with that and sold it in favor of a new 1992 Ford Escort. I LOVED that Escort! Fun to drive, cute, and extremely reliable. I still miss that car...

Traded that for a 1996 Ford Taurus wagon, which is still running and has been very reliable as well. Our next vehicle will likely be a mini-van (need room for the kid's wheelchair and such), and while I prefer the Nissan Quest, the darn good deals on Dodge Caravans of late may too much to pass up this upcoming year...

[Generic Other]

169. my honda waa stolen repeatedly

so crooks must like them.

[Enthusiast]

172. You are so wrong.

American cars have improved tremendously over the past two decades. And it IS The Republicans. Southern Republican States subsidize foreign auto manufacturers yet oppose a tiny fraction of that to help domestic auto workers.

We have had great luck with our American cars and trucks. American companies continued to build SUVs and similar because they had the most appeal to the buying public. Every single foreign manufacturer makes an SUV.

You have bought into the right wing talking points entirely.

[Divine Discontent]

173. FUNNY.... how come I have a great running Impala?

not saying it's perfect, as it runs hot but that just could be the engine size, but for a 7 year old car it is remarkably good.


Buy American - there's good ones out there to choose from.

[Divine Discontent]

174. and my 97 mitsubishi was in the shop constantly at year 3! eom

[silverojo]

176. Are you smoking crack?

We've owned Fords, up to and including a Ford van, and NEVER had a rust problem. Perhaps you're thinking of the old Chevy Vega...?

We've owned a Buick (a GM car) since 1999, and only now are we seeing that there MIGHT be a problem with the oil pressure...probably due to normal wear.

I asked the mechanic roughly how long we could expect our Buick with 75,000+ miles to last. He told us that's low mileage for a Buick...he's seen some with 250,000 miles on the odometer.

Of all the cars we've owned, the one we had the most problems with was a piece of shit from Japan. And you want to talk ugly? How about that stupid Japanese model that looks like a box on wheels?

And lots of people (including reviewers for car magazines) are complaining about how Mercedes cars are junk today, compared to years past.

I'm not calling you un-American. I'm just calling you full of shit.

GM CARS ARE FAR MORE RELIABLE THAN FOREIGN PIECES OF JUNK. IF YOU HAVEN'T OWNED GM CARS, THEN SHUT UP--BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CLUE.

[B Calm]

177. Honda makes a pretty good engine, but when you need to fix it, hold

on to your wallet! I have an old 1990 Buick that still runs great and gets 28 MPG.

[Lifetimedem]

183. It used to be

That foreign cars cost less initially but were more expensive to fix because of the imported parts. Now in spite of their "cheaper labor" they cost about the same .

We have always owned American, We have owned Fords, GM's and the last few are Chrysler products .

Buying American means something to us.

[CRF450]

185. You my friend need fact check.

American cars guzzle gas huh? Have you seen the Cobalts? They average around 30mpg for most drivers. Its true that when it comes to econo cars, the imports have us beat most of the time. But when you look at everything else like trucks, SUV's, sports cars, full size sedans, and big luxury cars, they dont get any better fuel milage! I'd go as far to say the Chevy Corvette is the most fuel efficient high powered sports car, despite its 26mpg HWY rating, its real world fuel milage can easily reach 30mpg on the HWY and average in the low 20's, thats with a 6.2 430hp v8.

Another example is the 04 Dodge Dakota I have. Its a 4 door crew cab, 4x4 with the 4.7 v8. I usually get around 16-17mpg. I'v looked at the Toyota Tacoma's loaded out the same way. Even with a smaller v6 engine, they dont get any better fuel milage. As for reliability, the Dodge has been rock solid, and so has my 01 Pontiac Trans Am.

[BlooInBloo]

186. I'll never buy an American-designed care either....

American-*built*, yes; but not American-designed.

[Better Believe It]

187. I Love My GM Buick Century because it doesn't break down and gets good mpg

[JVS]

188. Honda makes a fine automobile, and being able to rely on that is important when buying something...

as expensive as a car.

[lumberjack_jeff]

189. What. A. Tool. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

191. I really think this oughta be nominated for one of the 10 worst threads posted in 2008

it is so full of blanket statements and false 'facts' and really, on a progressive liberal website, in the horrible state this country is in with B*sh allowing the selling of our manufacturing sector to foreign interests who seem to be sending in a lot of faulty product produced by sweat shop labor, this smacks of anti-unionism.

There are plenty of crap cars from all manufacturers - but, your smug post just really went over the line.

American workers aren't to blame for the Big 3's mostly shameful attention to SUV's for the past 10 years, and when given the opportunity to make energy efficient vehicles, America will shine under an Obama Administration that doesn't undercut our own.

Congrats on a crappy thread.

[CANDO]

192. My Buick hasn't broken down.

127,000 miles and counting. '99 Regal