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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:33 PM
Original message
The insensitivity, bigotry and hypocrisy of Rachel Maddow
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 09:39 PM by dem629
Just minutes ago on her show, while raising the issue of Governor Blagojevich's mental state, she did the cliche hand gesture next to the temple (signaling "crazy") and used the word "cuckoo" to describe such a mental state.

As a person who lives with a mental illness (diagnosed with major depression, anxiety/panic disorder) I have to wonder why Ms. Maddow would use the gesture and the word. Mental illness is just that -- an illness. People in this country face a terrible social stigma when it comes to mental health issues. Ms. Maddow fueled that stigma tonight.

Does she have a hand gesture and slur for people with other illnesses and disorders? Diabetes? Scoliosis?

Does she tolerate people fueling the use of a stigma in regards to people who are born a certain way? Would she expect me and others to stand up to bigots who use crude terms to describe homosexuality -- not an illness, but clearly another segment of the population that faces a terrible social stigma?

Now, I know I'll face some backlash here, as there are countless Maddow devotees. And that's fine. I realize there are people who are loyal not to an ideology of tolerance and understanding, but rather to personality -- and I am sure they will show themselves here in this thread.

I just think it's just appropriate to highlight bigotry, intolerance, insensitivity and ignorance when it appears...especially on television.

I've emailed a copy of this to her, so that one of her producers can delete it promptly, I guess. Oh well.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, ffs.
:crazy:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You're only saying that because you're crazy
:woohoo:
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. wrong smilie
:crazy:

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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. ?
Does "ffs" mean what I think it means?

Ending with "sake"?
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. yep
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Thank you
and this one's for you ------------>>> :toast:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Free beer!
:woohoo:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
162. My sentiments exactly (n/t)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
169. +1. nt
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
235. 
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. let me rephrase her words
Bloggo is fucking nuts. Delusional. not fit for office.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think emailing her is appropriate. She may be unaware, not bigoted & hypocritical.
Why not give her the benefit of the doubt and hope that your email reaches her first?
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
163. Thank you Bluebear, you always make such good sense.



Peace :thumbsup:
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I like Rachel Maddow.
I think she's very smart and very well-informed and personable as hell. I like her interviewing style, and I think she does a great job of identifying the main issues in all that goes on in one day in our world.

But, to take offense at her gesture is, to me, beyond the pale. What's the harm? If you think that small gesture and one word constitute an example of "bigotry, intolerance, insensitivity and ignorance," I would suggest that you're simply looking for an offense where none exists. I'm sure you understand what those things are in the real world, and what Rachel Maddow did tonight hardly qualifies. Come on.

We all live with mental illness, in one manner or another. You are not alone.

It strikes me, though, that you're looking for something to be pissed off about and you latched on to the most innocuous and innocent gesture.

What's next? We should maybe outlaw the word "crazy"? Or rename cuckoo clocks?

Now, go ahead and attack me because I don't see this the same way you do. With all your anger, you just might feel better after you vent on someone with a different opinion.

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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Beat me to it.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. You know what they say
about great minds and thinking alike, hmmmmm?

:hi:
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. A true measure of one's intellect!
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. I agree with you. I don't think she meant anything offensive by it.
Rachel Maddow has to be the least bigoted person on the air...
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
155. yes one gesture can be bigotted
say it was a person pantamining fucking discussing a gay guy. This was just plain wrong.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #155
181. Better yet - the limp wrist. Remember that one?
Would people be ok with that too? hmmm
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
183. My Wife Is Bipolar
She is on a cocktail of meds to control it, (they work pretty darned well) and we both say Rachel do that. I know i didn't and i'm 99.9999999% sure my wife didn't.

I think this might be a case where an offense was taken from a comment/gesture where truly no offense was intended.
GAC
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #183
195. There's a strong history
of bipolar in my family, so I'm happy to learn that the meds are helping your wife. It's so hard. Good for both of you.

As I stated in another post, I think that gesture was meant more to signify "goofy," in the manner of Looney Tunes, or the Roadrunner evading Wile E. Coyote, than alluding to any mental illness. That it was taken as a slur on the mentally ill suggests the person offended has either a terribly thin skin or a bone to pick somewhere and decided to land on a simple and almost-meaningless gesture made by a TV personality.

Hell, Bloggo's not mentally ill - he's just an arrogant thief, and a not-very-bright one, at that.

Thank you for understanding. Good luck to you and your wife.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #195
202. Thanks
And i agree that Blago is Looney Tunes. He's a napoleonic cretin who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
GAC
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Traveling_Home Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. I like your post but the headline - only so so

I'm also disabled, polio as a child and depression for the last 6 years. You are right. She was thoughtless and should know better. She's an adult after all!
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Exactly. Thank you for your response. n/t
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. Thank you for saying that ~ my Mom has "Memory" problems
at 90 years old.

Most of the time she is sharp as anything.

It hurts me to hear people refer to Senior that are suffering with Memory issues as "crazy."

The Gov. is not my favorite person but I do hope that he gets some help for his problems.

Thank you and the original poster for helping "Progressive" caring people see another side of the issue.

I'm surprised that Rachel handled it that way, and disappointed.

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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. thank you for chiming in. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #41
137. Based on his words, he's devious, conniving, self-serving.
What are the problems he should get help for?
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. I was going to suggest you email her, but you already did
I believe that I've read Rachel has suffered from severe depression herself.
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Engineer4Obama Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rachel herself suffers from Depression
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 09:53 PM by Engineer4Obama
Edited out poor worded post.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. "A common hand gesture"???
Yeah, honey, it is common to stigmatize and dismiss mental illness. When I heard about the Illinois governor's behavior, I thought, have they checked him for bipolar mania? Because he isn't seeing the consequences and he's behaving like he's invulnerable.

But I didn't dismiss it with a hand gesture. I'm sorry Rachel did. Sometimes she goes for the joke and misses the human tragedy.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
70. Sounds like Narcisistic Personality Disorder to me.
Shrub may have the same problem.

Rachel needs to apologize.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
139. that gesture is ASL.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Butter in the middle and on top, and a large Mountain Dew for me........
:popcorn:



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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. That's the dirtiest subject line I've read all day
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likesmountains 52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I'll bring the napkins..scoot over!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
153. I brought more salt and butter to share. This is ludicrous.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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nutsnberries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm a fan of Rachel
but I was upset by that too and will be sending an email.

The Governor of Illinois certainly has a problem but that's not an acceptable way for her to express concern for his mental health.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Right. Seems she would know better. Guess not. Thank you. n/t
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
14.  She is a great person and articulate advocate for progressive causes.
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 09:44 PM by Peregrine Took
Please cut her a teeny bit of slack on this one - send her an email regarding your concern.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
42. Should we cut all prejudice a "teeny bit of slack"?
What constitutes a justified prejudice?
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Apparently so!
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
225. I think we should especially since we all are guilty
the online world is just so quick to bring out the rhetorical guillotine.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #225
231. So, it's OK to hurt another, as long as the guilt of the "hurter" is salved?
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. Since you emailed this to her, I won't suggest it.
But I do think you shouldn't automatically assume that her producers would automatically delete it.

I understand why you don't like what she did, and I think you're right to point it out to her.

But be careful that you don't fall into doing something akin to what you point out to her that she did.

I hope someone gets back to you on this.

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have a feeling you'll be pleasantly surprised by the response you get. n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
150. I agree. I have a feeling that the Maddow staff & her are very caring about what people feel
regarding her words and actions. I cannot imagine she meant to come across so flippant. I understand and respect the OP's frustration over this, and I do believe they'll get an apology of some sort.

These designs on dozens of different shirts, button, stickers, mugs & more! http://www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable/1434671

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colorado thinker Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. The problem is
that too many people in this country are so fixated on their own sensitivities. I am absolutely sure that, in using that gesture, (which has been in use in this country for, what, a century or more?) Rachel had no intention of slurring, degrading, making fun of or simply just annoying people who are challenged with mental illness.

She was describing the governor as being completely irrational and out of control. That's all, and that's all anyone should read into it. I'm sorry you struggle with the issues you describe but please, a little perspective might just make these 'slurs' easier to bear? And don't tell me I don't know anything about living with mental illness. My mother was recently diagnosed as bi-polar, with extreme and daily swings. She's been like this since I was six and I'm 54 now, so yes, I understand how painful it can be to be labeled "crazy", having had to watch her struggle with the stereotype her entire life.

Namaste.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. yup, she wouldn't have done it if he really had some mental illness
it was more to a corrupt governor being an asshole.

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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
52. You apparently did not see the segment. That's exactly what it was about.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
46. You do realize that your rationalizations are the same ones used for ALL
prejudies?

I remember very well what was said to us Radical Women in the 60s... and it's very similar to what you're saying here.

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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
106. "completely irrational and out of control"
The thing is, most of us only see the face of politicians that they want us to see. We don't hear private tapes and their cursing, so we don't know how jerky some of them are. Blago may be acting the way he always acts and he finally got caught at it. Hard to imagine, but we do elect people to office who are irrational and spectacularly selfish. It has nothing to do with a particular mental illness, except in the sense that it may be a personality disorder.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. Oh yeah, she's a fountain of bigotry, insensitivity, intolerance and
ignorance. :sarcasm:

I feel for you and your mental illness, and I know you feel for me and my mental deficiency that is leading to Alzheimers, but it wasn't you or me that she was referring to but a person who does exhibit the mental illness common among people in public office known as sociopathy. They need to be pointed out and brought down. Sorry, but being sensitive to anyone who resembles Caligula or Hitler isn't a bad thing.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. Actually,
your post made me think that the twirling-finger-to-the-side-of-the-head is really nothing more than a cartoon gesture. It reduces Bloggo's goofy behavior to that of a character in - wait for it - LOONEY TUNES!!!

I doubt she was referring to mental illness, but, rather, to a guy not very bright, not very perceptive, and, ultimately, not really good at what he was doing. Sort of like Wile E. Coyote who will never catch the Road Runner........................

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
89. I think you are very perceptive to notice that. n/t
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do you have a problem calling Bush cuckoo?
I agree that it is offensive to someone who is struggling trying to live a normal life.

When you are a corrupt politician who is just acting crazy, I see no offense.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yes.
When the stories (rumors, whatever) started circulating a couple of years ago that he was on anti-depressants, there was much talk about him like that.

I opposed the talk because:

a) I'm not a huge fan of making fun of people who have diseases (shocking, I know)

and, more to the point about Bush...

b) Bush exhibits none of the traits of someone with a legitimate mental disorder - and he is fully responsible and cognizant of his actions and thus should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

So, there ya go.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
226. How do you know that?
b) Bush exhibits none of the traits of someone with a legitimate mental disorder - and he is fully responsible and cognizant of his actions and thus should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

Bush exhibits many of the traits of someone who abuses substances and who suffers from personality disorder. Just because it is not an Axis I clinical disorder doesn't make it illegitimate and fully controllable. From your reasoning, people who have traumas and or personality disorders or history and effects of substance use are different because they are "aware" and thus should be able to control themselves? I am sure the recovery community and any one in therapy for trauma fully supports that argument.

Well the medications used to treat mood and thought disorders are believed to sufficiently diminish the active symptoms such that the person suffering the disorder can have insight and develop plans to prevent relapse right? So the same would be said of people suffering from Axis I disorders, they are cognizant of what they are doing and should be held fully accountable for going off their medications and engaging in dangerous behaviors.

I don't support stigmatizing people with mental illness and if Rachel was doing so then she should apologize, but I also dislike when people imply that they are the only one suffering from psychological and/or psychiatric problems because they have been diagnosed and that everyone else knows exactly what they are doing.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. Sometimes DU makes me want to drink til I puke
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
67. MeToo- And Stuff Like This Makes Me Puke w/o the Drink First
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
90. Pass one for me
Shakes head.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
123. or just puke....

btw, OP:

The names you called Rachel based on your drummed up charges of "Fingergate" pretty much made you guilty of the very things you were accusing her of.


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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
215. Yep. Just click that little "x". It's lowered my BP significantly since I started using it :)
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. Imagine the outrage if she'd said "as useless as an amputee"
But I don't want to rag on Maddow. Nearly everyone uses the word "nut' or "crazy" when they want to dismiss someone's humanity.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. Maybe not too much outrage. She has a lot of sycophants on this site.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
217. Isn't the term "rag on" a
particularly insensitive statement?
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3.141592653 Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. You made me think
dem629, I have no idea who Rachel Maddow is and I didnt take the time to look her up on the Internet, but I do know who you are.

You're the person that made me think about people that think "acting crazy" is a shortcut to using actual english to express their thoughts.

Im with you on this. I've never experienced mental illness but my heart goes out to you. I think it really is a condition that is rarely taken seriously in our "its all about me" culture.

I hope I see you around here. You helped me tonight.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. Thanks! Nice to find another person of true compassion and genuine progressive values.
Our numbers are low!
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. As someone who lives with brain damage
I was not really offended. I do understand how it might be offensive to some, but I was not bothered, and I am not psychologically well.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Sweet Baby J
Get over yourself.
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Engineer4Obama Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. So calling a corrupt Gov coo koo = bad, Calling Rachel Maddow an Insensitive Hypocrite = A.O.K?
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I know,
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 10:03 PM by PeaceNikki
, right?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. Peace.
:crazy:
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3.141592653 Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Somehow I dont think
Somehow I dont think the American Association of Rectal Physicians, (AARP), will be upset if we call the Governor of Illinois an asshole.

But I do think it's insensitive to clump a corrupt and yes, and asshole Governor into a group, (mentally ill), that needs help and not be made fun of.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. Nice catch!
And welcome to DU!

:hi:
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
58. Are you equating an illness with a choice to be prejudiced and ignorant? Well, go ahead, I guess....
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Engineer4Obama Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #58
76. No I'm calling you out for what you are
Oversensitive. Yes mental illness is a problem in this country and those who truly SUFFER from mental illness such as depression deserve our sympathy and respect, BUT there are also the sociopaths and people who have no connection with reality such as the much beloved Governor of Illinois. As I point out further up the post Rachel Maddow herself suffers with Depression putting her on at least equal ground as you in the who has it worse off fight.

My problem is not with the point you are trying to make, that Mental illness is not something to be made fun of, but the way you try and make it. Instead of saying, You know Gov Blago is OUT OF HIS MIND, but mental illness is a serious problem in this country that too often gets overlooked, you decide that the best course of action is to smear Rachel Maddow and assume that she is a horrible hypocrite because of some perceived equivalence between her homosexuality and your mental illness. Drawing equivalence more often than not leads to a giant pissing contest of each side PROCLAIMING how much worse off they are (see the sexism racism battles of the primaries).

Yes our issues matter but the way we argue them is half of the battle. No one is going to listen to you if you come off sounding like a jerk.

(I now apologize for sounding like a jerk)
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
81. The fact you can't see the difference proves the point of the OP. nm
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Engineer4Obama Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #81
93. and this post proves my point
When you wanna be overly sensitive you better be ready to describe everyone in glowing terms.

Is it possible that maybe I too might have some insight into the mental illness issue? That the OP may not have a monopoly on the pain it can cause? Maybe I too have been dismissed as 'just crazy' when I really needed help and no one would give it.

My point is that the OP makes the assumption that all mental illness is disparaged anytime someone uses the word crazy or the horrible hand gesture that goes with it. Assuming everyone around you is a bigot completely ignorant to something only you can understand isn't just narrow minded it is down right insulting.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Calling people "Overly sensitive", is insult to injury. Do you think an over weight person
is "overly sensitive" if they object to someone calling them fat? All I am asking for is sensitivity, and don't appreciate it being shouted down as being "overly sensitive". Respect is all I ask. Is that too much?
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Engineer4Obama Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #95
101. Quit drawing equivalencies
Life isn't equivalent the plight of overweight American's will never be the same as that of those with mental illness, the plight of homosexuals will never be the same as that of African Americans. To try and say that they are diminishes what they all go through. (I am not saying one plight is greater than the other merely that they are different)

My point is that yes we need to start respecting each other and sometimes that means that the "Overly Sensitive" need to respect those that they are offended by who truly meant no harm (as I am sure is the case with Ms. Maddow). Issues cannot advance awareness cannot move forward if we spend all our time being outraged and bickering at each other. This requires work from BOTH sides the "offenders" need to try to avoid language that causes the outrage while the "offended" need to try and cut people some slack every once in a while. Not every person who doesn't understand exactly what you are going through meant you harm or offense.

We all need to look inward to realize that every single one of us is flawed and that we do not hold a monopoly on truth and understanding. But the type of language used in the OP isn't going to help us get there its just going to divide us into TYPE A and TYPE B personalities. With the type As heralding the OP and the type Bs dismissing what many will see as an over reaction and completely missing the greater Point that the poster had to make about the state of Mental Health in this country.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #101
117. I agree with most of what you say. I also think the OP was a little to rough on Maddow. But just
because she meant "no harm", which I feel is correct, doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out as wrong. I think Ms. Maddow would agree to that.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Boy....that gosh darn Rachel Maddow is so bigoted she should just get her own show on Fox News.
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 10:03 PM by Double_Talk_Express
Get off your high horse.
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WhaTHellsgoingonhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. Tough one to swallow sometimes...
Hell, I'm not fit for this world off my meds. Sometimes I get all, "WTF? Was that necessary?" when MSM refers to anything and everything that's been turned on its axis as "bipolar" or "schizophrenic." And sometimes, more so when someone lables a sitch as schizo when it's clear that they have just described symptoms similar to MPD :) Problem is, they, nor their greater audience, are the wiser.

We're light years behind the beast cancer folks--boy have they got their shit together! We certainly have a lot of work to do getting the word out. But we're getting there :thumbsup:
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. Well, isnt' being gay a mental illness?
Kidding! But I bet you clicked on this response pretty quick!

I'm conflicted about this. I'm mentally ill, and often use terms such as crazy and such. Sometimes I feel bad, but, sometimes I don't. I think I only get really offended by it when someone uses it to describe an ultimately and truly mentally ill person, but when they are just talking about an asshole, I don't mind. Though I probably should.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. "I'm mentally ill, and often use terms such as crazy and such. "
That's your call and your perogative.

Same as African Americans who use the N-word.

But you certainly wouldn't use that word as an attack, now would you?

Would you?
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #59
78. No, I wouldn't. And if I have said it off the top of my head, I've always felt unsettled.
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HeresyLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
51. Problem is we don't have an exact word for it.
She doesn't mean 'crazy' in the sense of a genuine mental disorder or illness.

She means stupid, dumb, breathtakingly idiotic, arrogantly and amazingly bereft of common or political sense. Asking for trouble, not on the ball, etc.

Something like 'who in their right mind thought THAT would work?'

It's also hard to call someone stupid though. It's a personal opinion. And compared to who? The commentator? That just leads to long dull arguments over 'opinion' and 'free speech'.

So we're left with 'crazy' or 'cuckoo' or a dozen other things. Wacko, out to lunch, one sandwich short of a picnic and so on.

We have nothing to sum it up with. No word or phrase immediately understood by everyone.

It's more a language problem than anything, I think. Not meant to be an insult or put-down to a genuine mental difficulty.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Nope. The segment included many references to mental illnesses.
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HeresyLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #54
73. Well I didn't see it.
I'm in Canada, so I was simply guessing at what she was trying to put across.

Because, in general, we don't have a word or phrase for it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
55. "Now, I know I'll face some backlash here" Unfortunately, you're right about that.
However, that puts you in very good company.

The first people to point out ANY prejudice are always targeted themselves and called all sorts of things.

It's very sad that people can't look seriously at the hurt that is caused by these thoughtless acts. They get defensive and go on the attack, as one can see in this thread.

You, of course, are very right to point this out, and I congratulate you for having the courage to do so.

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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. Thank you! Yes, I knew there were Maddow followers who would defend anything and everything
no matter what, but I also knew I'd find a few fair-minded people here and perhaps some who thought twice about being bigoted toward people with illnesses.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I receive bigotted replies here on DU about being poor and homeless, so I know how it feels.
Some of the replies here are SHAMEFUL, but I'm really not surprised. :cry:

I admire you for speaking out.

It needs to be said.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. I hope you're doing well these days. Best of luck!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. thanks! I will also say that I find it reprehensible to use the term "retarded" in an attacking
ay.

This is the same thing, and I really can't understand how "progressives" can mock someone who is trying to stand up against prejudice of ANY sort!

It should be part of our DNA!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
60. I enjoy her show.
I didn't watch it tonight (I will see it later). However, if she did that, I would agree that it is insensitive.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. I don't watch TV. I recommend it to you too.
I'm not a fan of Maddow's, for obvious reasons, but I doubt that hers is the most egregious offense to be found there either, by a long shot.
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I rarely watch these shows now that the election is over.
I didn't care either way about her, take the show or leave it, it's kind of a boring recap of what everyone else talked about all day. But after tonight, I think I'll be done for good with all these shows until something major is going on.

who needs it? ;)
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. I'm happy.
My stress level is low, most of the time. I did watch Obama's acceptance speech. That seemed worthwhile.
:hi:
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dem629 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
66. Good night and thanks for reading and responding to my post......................
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
71. I'll give ya a 2 on a 10 point insensivity scale, but
bigotry and hypocrisy? Not hardly. I'm far more concerned with the colloquial definition(2) of schizophrenic than cartoon gestures.
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #71
131. Finally saw the whole show.
She referred to the 'crazy' allegation as "the admittedly very sensitive subject" in the segment lead preview.

Make that 0 outa 10.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
72. I am a bigot

I am opposed to hiring the blind to pilot airplanes.

I am also opposed to hiring public officials with pronounced personality disorders.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
74. You pooped in the refrigerator?
And ate the whole wheel of cheese?

I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #74
114. This might be the most insightful post in the entire thread...
:applause:

Sid
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #74
175. Dammit, flvegan, I don't speak German.
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
75. I think the argument can be made
that there's a difference between "mental illness" and "crazy."

For instance, if you see someone riding a motorcycle down the street at a high rate of speed, not wearing a helmet and running through stop lights without even slowing down, one probably would call that person "crazy."

Not all crazy people have a mental illness and certainly not all people who have a mental illness are "crazy."


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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. I've actually been hospitalized for bipolar disorder run amok ...
And yes, I was crazy at the time, it took four cops to get me in the ambulance..

Do you think this DU approved smilie is insensitive, intolerant and bigoted? :crazy:
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
79. while raising awareness that mocking mental health patients is insensitive
might be a good thing

i dont think she fuelled stigma, i also think calling her a bigot doesnt help you gain any sympathy from most people
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #79
109. That sums up what I think on the topic as well.
nt

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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #79
227. agreed
I seriously doubt that anyone who watches the show was thinking, "yeah, darn those people with clinical disorders, we should oppress them." due to her discussion of the governor's behaviors and the use of the hand gesture.
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
80. Holy crap


It's a commonly used gesture. This is just over the top PC police. Of all the things to be pissed off about in today's world, who the fuck has the time to be pissed about such a meaningless thing?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. The N-Word was commonly used, not too long ago.
So was lynching in the south.

But I guess that prejudice was "meaningless"?


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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. didn't i see you on some other thread sticking up for the
HOMOPHOBIC catholic church? I guess some bigotry is ok with you if it's under the umbrella of religion. :eyes:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
221. You make a good point. Attacking fellow DUers for their faith is exactly the same kind of
prejudice.

Your contention that DEMOCRATS OF FAITH ARE BIGOTTED is prejudice.
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #82
98. Using that comparison belittles how bad the N-word is.
You can't seriously think making a "crazy" sign is the same as using the N-word while you're lynching someone is it?

What a nonsense comparison.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. That's not too different
than removing a portion of someone's brain because he/she are "crazy".

Both situations require incredible dehumanization on the part of the offender.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #110
209. Very good point. And hiding children in the attic all their lives because they are "different"
(crazy), and the abuse of people labeled as "crazy".

It's all prejudice, and it's very sad that "progressives" just can't see the connection.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #98
208. You don't think that "mentally ill" people get beaten and "lynched" because of EXACTLY
this kind of prejudice????

You REALLY don't see that EVERY beginning of awareness of prejudice has people defending their prejudicial attitudes just like YOU are doing?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. How very insensitive of you. nm
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. "N-----" used to be a commonly used expression
primarily in the south.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
85. Like Rachel I am pissed that this delusional
man has created this mess before PE Obama's inauguration. I have more than a few slurs for Blagojevich.
Seriously I am tired of being politically correct. He's batshit crazy and it's not about your illness.
If you're under investigation and get caught on tape threatening over deals, you're beyond crazy - you're an asshole. Go Rachel!
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
86. You must be offended 24-7.
Honestly. This is ridiculous.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #86
102. Maybe Skinner could put up a perpetually offended forum?
:eyes:
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. Great idea actually.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #102
172. I think he did. It used to be GD/P but has recently been replaced by this one.
Sometimes I feel so out of place here...

:rofl:
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
218. what a cuckoo idea!
what are you a fucking loony?
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
87. On the radio, where she can't use hand gestures
I've often heard her use a sound effect, or maybe she's whistling herself, but it sounds like the noise a cuckoo clock makes when she's doing a story, usually about a republican, demonstrating what we would in a non clinical sense call crazy behavior. I'll have to watch the show at 11 to see the context, I'm wondering if her take was more cynical than insensitive. Is Blag using mental illness as a defense against the charges?

If you asked me to describe Elliot Spitzer's actions, I might call it insane, or crazy - if you were talking about someone who had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, depression or bi-polar disorder, I would not use those terms.
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Ioo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
88. Wow, people are way to sensitive, I am sure she was not talking about you
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
92. Thanks for the post. Sad to see so many so called liberals being so insensitive with their rude
comments. I do think you were a little harsh in your post. I think Maddow is great and most likely didn't realize what she was doing. We still have a lot of inherent prejudices in society. Most people don't even pay attention. Those dealing with the black community are very clearly pointed out and have diminished over the years. Some progress has been made in the area of sexism but still a way to go. Where it is not acceptable to mock stereotypes of the black community, it is still ok to do so for the Asian community. We can make fun of over-weight people and people with mental problems.

Some people try to rationalize their behavior by poking fun of "politically correctness", and sometimes it is over done, but there is no excuse for insensitivity and just plain rudeness as shown in some of the posts above.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. Agreed. Hands in the cookie jar syndrome.
Some would rather insult the OP rather than seriously address the issue.
I guess that is not surprising as the problem being discussed is the use of insulting/prejudiced language.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #96
119. I think we all have different levels of reality that we can deal with. There are only so many
battles each of us can take on. Some more than others. Some of those battles we don't want to tackle we rationalize away in some manner. Like they are not real issues.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #119
148. Yes. People hold onto their belief systems with their lives.
It's pretty evident in this thread.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
94. The way she used it - I take it as someone who is a dumbass
I don't apply that term to the truly mentally ill as it does have a negative connotation and is uncalled for.

I think you are confusing the meaning in this case.

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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Then the word "stupid" would be apt.
The problem is that we are all so used to using these kind of expressions.
If you saw the show, she was specifically addressing the issue of mental illness. Isn't the true issue criminality?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
99. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
100. Thanks for your enlightened post.
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 11:19 PM by ShortnFiery
Since my advanced degree (psychology), I've been granted over 15 years of privilege to work within the mental health field. As such, I hope you consider me credible when I fully agree that there's a profound lack of sensitivity to REAL PEOPLE suffering, mostly in isolation, debilitating mental illness.

Even my family and friends would callously call my volunteer work with young adults who were "chronically mentally ill" (on and off hospitalized). One particular mean-spirited quip that I will never forget, "Hey did you know your daughter is taking 'the crazies' to Disneyland next Saturday." :grr:

Truth is that most people suffer undetected. The young people I have been acquainted with KNEW they were being stigmatized and would share with me how some staff members would only care about them "taking their meds" not whether they were experiencing any relief from their symptoms.

I wish these people would remember the adage: "The but for the grace of God, go I."

Our corporate M$M often dismiss those who may be mentally ill as having "a controllable" willpower problem. NO! If this Gov. is mentally ill, it has a component of an obsession/compulsion that he is not fully in control of. However, what I surmise is a long standing "personality disorder" is very difficult to treat. But it is a disorder and the oddities that elucidate, in particular, antisocial personality should not be used ONLY for the brunt of jokes.

Thanks again for bringing this seemingly nation-wide callousness to the plight of the mentally ill back to the forefront to discuss.

Best to you and yours. :hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #100
116. People really don't understand how difficult this problem is
to get addressed in our culture at any level.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
103. I'm reminded of the old Amish saying
Everyone is crazy except me and thee.

And I find thee a bit queer.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. No, not "crazy", just perhaps "insensitive" like all of us can be ... like Rachel unwittingly was.
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 11:31 PM by ShortnFiery
:shrug:

Like POLLOCK or DEAD BABY jokes, sometimes it just doesn't work when it's important to be inclusive vice glib.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. I don't think she was.
It was, as is the case with journalists and others who have the public stage, making a statement that could be understood by the majority of her audience.

But you fry your fish and I'll fry mine.

And if you don't like, do the other thing.

:eyes:

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #107
120. Who's being insensitive and glib now?
Some say ... uh, YOU?
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #120
122. Yep - it's midnight - I turn nasty at midnight.
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 12:30 AM by GoneOffShore
So, as I said,

you can do the other thing.

Because you're making me nuts.

:smoke:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
108. She tends to be a 'Debbie Downer' at times.
:shrug:
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
112. You make a good point. A flippant characterization of any illness, on national TV, does no one well.
Whether it's the issue here with the Illinois Governor or not, is besides the point.

Objection may seem overblown in the scheme of things. Too picky or politically correct.

Yet, Ms. Maddow now has a national, visual audience. And she has a responsibility in that role.

It was a tacky move. No more, no less. I suspect she is more than savvy enough to realize that.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
113. Oh, call the WAAAAAHBULANCE
Does DU have to be under tight-fisted control of the PC police? :eyes:

That is just plain cuckoo. :crazy: :silly: :freak:
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #113
118. boo @ insensitive 'smilies'
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #118
128. Probably didn't like Tropic Thunder either
I'll bet.

:rofl:
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #128
140. i downloaded the torrent a few weeks back
still haven't watched it though =/
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #140
197. You'll laugh, you'll cringe and have a thoroughly good time
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 12:23 PM by GoneOffShore
I saw it in the theatre with three women who I thought were the most unlikely people to enjoy it.

The four of us almost got thrown out for the hysterical laughter and chortles.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #113
129. We're not the PC police. And, fwiw, I don't think we're tight fisted. Bottom line,
if you have a disagreement with the moderation here, please let one of our Administrators know.

Thanks.

They're at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #113
135. boo @ insensitive smilies & the use of the right-wing "PC"
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
115. I have the same. Clinically diagnosed, yes. Often cripping. Now knock it off; you're being stupid.
That's all I have to say.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #115
124. Thank you for claiming to speak for the entire population of depressives on DU.
Such thoughtfulness is not recognized nearly enough. :eyes:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. No. I am speaking for myself, and only myself. I'm not sure
what would cause you to put words in my mouth.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #125
130. Then please forgive me? I was getting an impression that you were censoring her as
"a depressive" and not as you have clarified, i.e., as just one DU member with the right to express their personal opinion.

I stand corrected. ;) :hi:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #130
132. No, just shielding myself from the "you have no idea how it feels" rejoinder. We're cool.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #132
134. Thanks - I was out of line because I can get haughty with regard to my personal
background. :blush:

Have a good evening. :hi:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
121. I think you are overreacting a bit, but she asks for feedback and you gave it to her.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #121
126. That's thoughtful AK. In essence, I don't consider Rachel as at all insensitive. I think she was
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 12:37 AM by ShortnFiery
just trying to be humorous.

No ill intent was noted. However, some people are sensitive to such gestures as equating to callousness toward the mentally ill.

Personality disorders understandably do not ascertain a true sense of empathy because the person who demonstrates such traits KNOWS what he/she is doing yet continues to behave abhorrently. Also, as I mentioned above, personality disorders are very difficult to treat especially if the client does not believe that he/she has "a problem." :(
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #126
136. I think giving her feedback was the right and therapeutic thing to do.
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:30 AM by AtomicKitten
Trash-talking her is assuming the very worst about her. A gentle nudge in an educational sort of way is much more productive and in the end healthier. I have no doubt Rachel will take the complaint under advisement. I think sometimes the stigma of mental illness precludes conversation, so I completely support giving feedback particularly when it is welcome.

On edit: On Rachel's behalf I would like to say that Fitzgerald's list of Blagojevich's activities reads like symptoms of a mental problem, so I would tend to give her slack in her analysis.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
127. I hope you get a response from the show, dem629.
:hi:
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iconicgnom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
133. I wouldn't be surprised if Rachel responded.
On my part, I didn't see anything to object to, even on my more politically correct days, which are gruesome days indeed.

I don't know why, but I think everyone should be able to use the "cuckoo, cuckoo" sign, even those that some cuckoo wannabe censor thinks are "cuckoo", and need to saved from harsh language.

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
138. the diabetes gesture is
the closed fist swung down onto the thigh like your stabbing yourself with a needle.

The Scoliosis one is bit tricky, you have to make a S shape with the profile of your hand.


Actually the circle finger next to the temple is ASL for crazy. So its really not bigotry, intolerance, insensitivity or ignorance but rather just ASL.
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #138
214. ......
:spray: I'm glad I swallowed my coffee before reading that!
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
141. Boy that Charlie Manson, he is craazzzyyy...cuckoo...nuts
I guess thats insensitive too huh? DU needs a faux outrage/paper-skinned forum.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #141
143. Or maybe a forum for morans. We could call it The Clueless Corner. n/t
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #143
154. Maybe there should be one for people who can't spell Moron!
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 06:10 AM by maryf
And perhaps know a little history of the word:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_ (psychology)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moron is a controversial term once used in psychology to denote a category of mental retardation.<1> The term was closely tied with the American eugenics movement.<2>

Origin and uses

"Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard<3> from the Greek word moros, which meant "dull" (as opposed to "sharp"), and used to describe a person with a mental age located between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.<4> It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70, being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and superior in two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0-25). The word moron, along with others including "retarded", "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, though these words have all now passed into common slang use, exclusively in a derogatory context.<5>

Following opposition to Goddard's attempts to popularize his ideas,<6> Goddard recanted his earlier claims about the moron: "It may still be objected that moron parents are likely to have imbecile or idiot children. There is not much evidence that this is the case. The danger is probably negligible."<7>

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #154
157. Or the history of "moran."
One would need to be familiar with DU's "hall of fame" in order to appreciate that it is being intentionally mis-spelt.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #157
158. Thanks, quotation marks, like yours, would have been nice ..
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 06:29 AM by maryf
Still the insults are hyperbolic and unnecessary...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #158
199. Terms in the vernacular usually don't go in quotation marks.
And my usage of "moran" isn't hyperbolic in the least but very precise.

Fyi, here's a link to a DU glossary that someone put together. There will come a day when a new poster comes here and s/he will not understand every other word written here. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #199
206. Thank you for the info, really :), but
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:40 PM by maryf
I still think the defense of a celebrity at the expense of someone who's point might be a little sensitive, but not without some cause, is over the top here (more cult of the personality reactions); the "hyperbolic" call was not particular to your post, btw. Others have suggested to the OP that it was not intended and that RM would likely respond nicely, fairly reasonable I thought. IMNSHO, the reactions of some posters here to the OP is far more over done than the reaction of the OP to RM, besides, RM is not really being attacked, and this poster is, I think. Perhaps you were referring to them as morans? sincere question.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #206
210. I agree that Rachel was in error and have posted a link to NAMI's
anti-stigma campaign somewhere in this big old thread.

The reason that our friend, Mr. "Moran" came to mind was, he hugs his huge lack of empathy and of education so closely that his own lack of awareness is invisible to him. Seriously, how long could you or I stand on a street corner with a mis-spelled sign ordering other people to "get a clue"?

There are posters here that think "whiny baby" is a homonym or cognate for "social justice". How that happens, I have no clue.

:hi:

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #210
234. Thanks for the clarification! Sorry
for the misread! :-)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #234
236. It's all good, maryf. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #154
192. LOL! Ah, but I meant "moran".
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 11:57 AM by sfexpat2000


Here's thread you might enjoy to provide context.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

oops
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Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
142. Oh, for fuck sakes! Go build a bridge!
:eyes:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
144. We stopped dvr'ing her, imo she to fell into her media trappings very quickly...
Her knock-off Tucker Carlson 'pop culture guy' is just really annoying
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
145. You know, after coming back to this thread, I agree...here's why
I'm a diagnosed obsesive compulsive. I just got off two years of meds for it. I know what it's like to have a mental condition that is dibilitating... frankly, until you've not been able to get out of a bed because of something going on in your brain you probably can't really understand what I'm saying. I do get VERY offended when I hear people refer to OCD sufferers as "Nuts" or "crazy" in a straight up way.

As well some of the responses here are completely insulting and total bullshit. If I were to say something is "gay" you'd all be pissed, rightly so. And I don't see much difference between that and throwing around "Crazy" in a demeaning way. I've spoekn to other mentalliy ill people about the stigma we all face and the OP is right that this kinda "stop whining" shit from you "normals" as I call you is mean-spirited bunk.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #145
149. Exactly. Well said, HEyHEY. n/t
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Indi Guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
146. I caught that myself, and was immediately put off. I'm a Maddow fan, but she showed much immaturity
I used to be very intolerant of people I thought of as "overly sensitive," until I ran severely amok in my own life.

It was quite easy for me to scorn a rotting apple on the ground while I was tethered to the tree -- I was quite impossible after my own fall.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
147. The joke form of cookoo and the reality really have nothing to do with one another
I use the world squirelly when someone is acting odd but I myself have clinical depression for which I've taken medication for the last decade. I don't see the two being related.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #147
151. She was seriously discussing whether or not he was mentally ill.
And I think that if Racheal read this threadt she would understand the Ops feelings and why this is a serious issue.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
152. You'll never seen the words "former mental patient"
applied to a popular musician or other successful people in the news. The media reserves that designation for only those mentally ill convicted of some heinous crime. And this type of propaganda feeds some of the notions displayed in this thread.

One of our guys got good old fashioned greedy and drunk with power. Nothing delusional or "nuts" about that.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
156. "Gay" is used as an insult
By my students everyday, I'm constantly talking to them about it, not censuring but informing, also the use of the term retarded...The OP asks:
"Does she tolerate people fueling the use of a stigma in regards to people who are born a certain way? Would she expect me and others to stand up to bigots who use crude terms to describe homosexuality -- not an illness, but clearly another segment of the population that faces a terrible social stigma?"

I do wonder how Ms. Maddow would react to someone saying the governor's behavior was "gay" as one of my students did yesterday?

I am disappointed by the nasty reactions here. My sympathy to the OP who must get very tired of not being able to cast away stigma as the reminders are always there.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
159. The woman is a Rhodes Scholar.
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 07:13 AM by Le Taz Hot
She raises issues K.O. won't raise. I've come to like her show more than K.O. and I LOVE K.O. You know what? ALL of us have "stupid" moments. Things that are mostly done on-the-fly and without thinking. They're usually not our proudest moments but what the hell? It's called being H-U-M-A-N. Maybe you could practice a little patience and understanding yourself before demanding it of others.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
160. and the :hurts: smilie is insensitive to those with irritable bowel disease~!
exhibit A: --> :hurts:

you people can not possibly feel my pain! you are all too cruel! how could you be a progressive on a website with such oppression available just a click-away! i weep bitter tears of disappointment!

:cry:
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
161. I guess my disagreeing with you completely is not politically correct either?
We are slowly approaching the precipice of complete stupidity.


Why HAS Rachel Maddow become a target for so many 'new' members?
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #161
232. Enforcing PC speech can have at least two goals.
First, it can be an attempt to correct speech that genuinely needs correction. The use of the N word is a clear historical example. This is education, and laudable.

Second, it can be a cynical or uncritical attempt to turn natural speech into a too-self-conscious homogenized equivalent, thereby rendering the speaker unable to communicate effectively. Think of the policed speech that politicians must often use - with all expressions carefully chosen to be inoffensive, it has also no possibility to inspire. Speakers like Obama, who can avoid offending while still inspiring, are few and far between. Most public speech is not at such a high level of skill, and so the use of the "inoffensiveness filter" leaves speech with little life, and little ability to communicate.

My guess is that some who are objecting to the OP are objecting to the enervating effect that I'm referring to here. I think many right-wing folks would love a lot of discussion about PC speech, because they would see it as setting up an obstacle to making progressive initiatives popular.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
164. No-one who was not looking for an opportunity to take offence at this would do so.
Ergo, while it (like everything else) is probably offensive to some people, it's perfectly reasonable for her to do it.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #164
171. Agreed. She obviously doesn't think Gov Blagetc. is actually mentally ill.
She was ridiculing his confused morality . . .
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #164
194. Nope. The biggest advocacy group in the US, NAMI
has a project on for years called "StigmaBusters" that acts on exactly this kind of thing in the media.

http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=fight_stigma
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #194
200. I explicitly ruled out people who are actively looking for an opportunity to take offence.
Yes, I am sure there are people this will offend.

However, the only such people are people who are looking for opportunities to take offence at this sort of thing, and this will make most of them feel good because it will confirm their prejudices and give them an opportunity for self-righteous anger; it won't make them feel bad. So if anything, it's a public service...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #200
201. The NAMI project is educative, not antagonistic. n/t
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 01:01 PM by sfexpat2000
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
165. Jaysus
this board is turning into the biggest bunch of over sensitive, whining babies. EVERYTHING becomes offensive. There is no room for humor, no room for satire, no room for anything that could remotely be construed as offensive in the slightest bit. Time to grow up and enter the real world.

And for your info, I struggled with clinical depression in my early 20's and wasn't even remotely offended by that until you brought it up and then I had to laugh in disgust.
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BostonMa Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #165
167. then leave
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #167
168. LOL
No way, the stuff I read here is sooo rich.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #165
176. It sure is. Nothing but whining attention-desperate shitbags
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 10:08 AM by DS1
all fighting for the same irrelevant Rec's. It's like the Free Mumia crowd who show up at peace protests, times a brazillion.


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DonEBrook Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #176
182. Bingo.
:shrug:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #182
190. Gee, welcome to DU
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DonEBrook Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #190
230. Gee, thanks. Nice to hear from someone who hasn't made a career out of
searching for things to be offended by! :D :toast:
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #176
184. There is no balance
We have moved from a patriarchal (Yang) to an ultra feminine (Yin) position where sensitivity is exaggerated. I find both extremes to be detrimental.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
166. As someone who has also suffered
from anxiety disorders (panic, agoraphobia, depression, seasonal affective disorder) for literally decades, I'm not offended when people do the "cuckoo" thing on someone whose thought processes really do make them cuckoo.

See, because I don't associate anxiety disorders with doing mean, spiteful, dishonest, or stupid acts. That's a whole 'nother thing, as they say.

Now, I don't know the state of Blagojevich's mental health...whether he too suffers from anxiety disorders...but I would say that even if he did suffer from some sort of anxiety-related disorder, it's NOT the anxiety disorders that caused him to commit these crimes.


I reserve my pity/anger/disgust for people who blatantly and specifically use the term "crazy" to describe those of us who have great difficulty functioning in the world because of our anxiety-related disorders.

So, in the end, you can feel any way you want about this, but I personally think you're wasting a whole lot of time and energy getting all hyped up and upset about something that really doesn't have anything to do with your specific disorders.

Blagojevich IS crazy. He would have to be, in order to do something this sleazy without thinking of the consequences.

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
170. Lighten up. It's a joke. Cut the woman some slack, she's on our side.
Give the "hurt outrage" a rest, fer heaven's sake.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
173. This place is fucking ridiculous
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
174. Apparently, you also live with an absence of a sense of humor. n/t
J
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
177. oh and




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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
178. Oh for God's sakes !! I'm not a Rachel Fan, but this is ridiculous.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
179. WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
:silly: does this smilie offend you?


:freak: how about this one?

you fucking :dunce:


that's right, :nopity:


find a nice wall and :banghead:


:patriot:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
180. Personally, even though I am mentally ill I don't think I would have even
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 10:19 AM by GreenPartyVoter
stopped to think about what she did.

Not sure if I am just oblivious to something that's been in the lexicon for so long or what, but I really wouldn't have thought about it until you mentioned it. So yeah, maybe the problem is that the word means far more than just mentally ill, so people when they use it to describe mental illness just aren't thinking about how objectionable it can be in that sense?

* S: (adj) brainsick, crazy, demented, disturbed, mad, sick, unbalanced, unhinged (affected with madness or insanity) "a man who had gone mad"
* S: (adj) crazy, half-baked, screwball, softheaded (foolish; totally unsound) "a crazy scheme"; "half-baked ideas"; "a screwball proposal without a prayer of working"
* S: (adj) crazy (possessed by inordinate excitement) "the crowd went crazy"; "was crazy to try his new bicycle"
* S: (adj) crazy (bizarre or fantastic) "had a crazy dream"; "wore a crazy hat"
* S: (adj) crazy, wild, dotty, gaga (intensely enthusiastic about or preoccupied with) "crazy about cars and racing"; "he is potty about her"

I guess when you come down to it, crazy in the mentally ill sense is somewhat like retarded in the mentally challenged sense.
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
185. Oh the OUTRAGE!
I'm so fucking tired of this hyper-sensitivity, faux outrage, constant hand-wringing bullshit. This place is becoming overrun with panicked lemmings, offended by the slightest word or gesture. Honestly, do you live your life looking for things to be offended about? Does it make you feel better, or somehow morally superior when you experience some personal, grave injustice. Why get out of bed? Why leave the house? You poor martyr. Life must be so damn fragile for you. You literally wasted, your energy, and your life to compose a harshly worded email to the producers of the show? Just think if you'd used that energy for something constructive, the eggshells of your fragile world might have become a little more resilient.

Let me know if you want to be offended for real. I'll come over and fart in your dinner.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #185
186. +1,000,000
:fistbump:
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #186
188. I find your "fist-bump" smiley offensive.
It suggests that you would like to punch the crap out of my hyper-sensitive face. I feel faint, and I think I've loosed my bowels...


:rofl:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
187. Newsflash: You ARE the loony left
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
189. I guess cuckoo is next on the anti-speech ban list
Some of you uber-pretentious self-righteous crybabies desperately need to get a fucking life! The constant PHONY outrage and finger waving is just an obvious and pitiful grand standing popularity contest to collect your K&Rs for your holier-than-thou diatribe so you can say "look at me! I'm such a pure righteous liberal EVERYTHING offends me!" Pretty soon even the word "idiot" will be a deleted offense around here. To constantly whine like emo kids with your palm stapled to your forehead is not noble or righteous behavior. It's not even human! Stop taking yourself so seriously. I assure you no one else does.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
191. I suffer from major depression and panic disorder with agoraphobia.
I am completely fine with Rachel's description of Blago. He IS 100% fucking "cuckoo" if he indeed do what is being alleged. Not suffering from genuine mental illness, but cuckoo -- nuts, bat-shit crazy, out of his ever lovin' mind.


I understand the distinction and I suspect most of her viewers do as well. :eyes:
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
193. I prefer "Crazier than a shithouse rat"
Can you say that on basic cable?
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
196.  I agree it was insensitive, but I don't see a pattern of bigotry
and hypocrisy.

She has admitted publicly to suffering from recurrent depression herself. So, her insensitivity would tie in to her own impairment as someone suffering from depression.

That whole segment was "off", I watched it and thought it fell flat, she didn't need to go there at all as far as explaining Blago's mental status as related to the Federal charges, she had no experts on the show to discuss it and one Ill. poll who came on had to side step having his casual "idiomatic" comment about Blago calling a special session as not a diagnosis rather as an idiom.

I also don't approve of hip shot phrases such as, he might be "bipolar."

Still, I would call the segment as lame, her response as inappropriate and insensitive but there is not history of bigotry and hypocrisy from her.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #196
212. That's a very thoughtful response.
Someone -- a producer? -- does seem to go for cheapness, though. They ran with the Mitofsky poll about black voters on Prop H8 and never bothered to update or correct that. It's probably not bigotry but rather shallowness that comes off as bigotry sometimes.

Rachel is reportedly a very hard worker. So, there is a disconnect here somewhere.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #212
233. Ya' know, there is a disconnect, I agree.
I really like Rachel and thought of her as being very bright when I first heard her comments, before she got her show.

But, there are aspects of the show that seem sort of odd. For instance, she seems to be going more and more for wry and sort of cynical humor, rather than just telling the story.

I don't know the reason, it's just an impression, but I can speculate, perhaps she is over extended, the radio show and a TV show, long hours, lots of pressure, who knows?

I am not certain she has found her voice yet, her "point of view." I like her, I want her to succeed, we need smart progressives on the air, I just hope she can be a little more perhaps "even" and less of the "wait tell I tell you what they did next..."

Thank you for the kind words.

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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
198. psst: DU is insensitive, bigotted and hypocritical
DU has a :crazy: icon.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
203. And let's not forget offensive children's cereal.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #203
204. And the German clock industry.


Fucking nazis.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. LOL!
:rofl:

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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
207. I can think of a dozen MH symptoms that the Gov. displayed
during his fall from grace...

perhaps not koo-koo...
but borderline personality disorder
narcissism
OCD...
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
211. Rachel can do no wrong!!!
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 02:00 PM by LaPera
From this dude's perspective....Homegirl Rachel has it going on.... and out comes the clowns right on cue!

The I hate what Rachel Maddow said about this, and the I hate Michael Moore, the I hate Keith Olbermann, I hate Mike Malloy, I hate Air America Radio clowns! Who NEVER do anything themselves nor put themselves on the line, nor have anything to offer except put downs...

They love to jump on the republican bandwagon, yet who always insist they are liberal & progressives...fucking stupid lying clowns!
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
213. As a person with diagnosed anxiety disorder, I say oh for fucks sakes. Give me a break.
*makes cookoo gesuture.*
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Qibing Zero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
216. Annnnd this is why we get marginalized
I'm all for criticism, even toward people I agree with most of the time, but this is too much. If that upsets you, I can't think of much on television that wouldn't. It's much more likely that you're just holding her to a higher standard for whatever reason.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
219. That could have been communicated more diplomatically.
I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties and agree that Ms. Maddow could've been more diplomatic. :hug:

Julie
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
220. It hadn't occurred to me that that gesture...
...would have the power to offend everybody who lives with mental illness. It's obvious, though, now that you've pointed it out.

K & R.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
222. I think you have a point, but that you also went over the top
It's appropriate to highlight insensitivity and ignorance, but not so much to engage in bombastic attacks while doing it. With your headline and rhetoric you are basically saying "Rachel Maddow is a total a$$hole!!" Not a decent person who did something she really shouldn't have done, but that one unintentional act makes her a total a$$hole.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
223. Oh boy. Note to self .. stop calling this city by name.
It's sounds too close.

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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
224. ...
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
228. Nuts. n/t.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
229. Welcome to DU, dem629.
Enjoy your stay.
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