In response to another thread - People work for themselves, almost without exception.

[tbyg52]

All living beings do. We gotta come up with systems where working for yourself aligns with working for the common good.

[tbyg52]

1. Thanks for the rec!

Wish I'd remembered everything I wanted to say, but hope to come up with it in time to do some good.

[ShortnFiery]

2. Common Good?

In the present Corporate United States of America Common Good is synonymous with PROFIT MARGIN. We non-investor class people are screwed. :(

[tbyg52]

5. Exactly. That's what we gotta fix.

Or just give up.

[vixengrl]

3. It's the truth. I recall not long ago, from the Bill Maher show

hearing one of the panelists, Amy Holmes, intimate that she believed that wealth was created from the top down.


Seriously. The top down. Not like coal, or gold, or diamonds, were ever prized from the earth's crust, or like cabbages, carrots or grass ever grew from the earth, or that people ever had to harvest them, or like cows and chickens ever ate grains or grass from the ground, and we needed them for meat! Oh hell, no. Nothing ever came from the filthy bottom. It all depended on capital, as if peole ate money to live. What bollocks.

When did people ever benefit from any labor without a paycheck? People do things that are useful, and that other people want done. What can you envision, otherwise?

Like people ever ate money. Which they don't. People work because they produce something needed sometime, somewhere. It might be food, it might be energy, it might be a toy--but it's something used by people. They work because employment is gainful--why else?

Once the basic idea that people work for themselves in things they *can* do to make the money they need, and the other basic idea that people do things that *need* to be done because there's value in that, are grasped, the world actually starts to make sense. The key is in finding ways of making existing jobs more relevant, since they've all been pc'd and otherwise tarted up to sound good, even if they are shite.

[JDPriestly]

8. People work because they love someone.

Mothers and fathers work for their children, to give their children a good life, to provides lives of dignity for their families. People work so that they can take care of and provide for their parents and others they love.

[Hannah Bell]

10. Half, maybe more, of existing jobs are totally useless or harmful.

As technology makes society more productive, it should create more free time for its citizens to learn, play, & participate.

Instead, production is taxed & make-work jobs are created, most of which pay some people to control others.

Because with every innovation, capital takes a bigger chunk of the pie & keeps everyone who's not following the carrot fearful of the stick.

"The economy" is the biggest joke going.

Too bad more people don't get it.

[hfojvt]

12. the top down is kinda tricky

I find it interesting to look at the NFL. To a large degree, I think games are won in the trenches. The defensive line stops the run and pesters the opposing quarterback and the offensive line establishes the run and protects the quarterback. Solid recipe for a victory.

But then, look at what can happen to a team when just one person is replaced - the quarterback. Look at the Patriots without Tom Brady. Look at the Cowboys without Tony Romo, and look at the Packers without Bret Favre.

The wealth of nations, to a large degree, comes not just from the hard work of the masses, but also from innovation and organization. Which makes the innovators and organizers very key in the process. Whereas, thanks to the de-skilling of many jobs, the ordinary worker, while important to the process, can be easily replaced by a random selection from the reserve army of the unemployed.

[tbyg52]

4. This was the tread I was responding to....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4554586&mesg_id=4554586

[tbyg52]

6. Nite all, and thanks for the recs.

DU give me hope, which I badly need. :toast:

[gravity]

7. It is all about having the right incentives in place

or else whatever policy you have will have problems.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

9. The common good is anathema to free market capitalism!

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
--Abraham Lincoln,
in his first Annual Message to Congress,
December 3, 1861

[hfojvt]

11. that really sounds like an excuse for selfish a$$holes

"Everybody's a selfish a$$hole, so it's not my fault. Just blame the system that doesn't turn my selfishness into the common good."

To me, that's a huge part of the problem. Because we supposedly had such a system that would produce the common good by an "invisible hand" people have been encouraged for generations to let their selfishness run wild. "Greed is good, it makes us all rich" is the mantra of the greedy ones.

I do not accept that selfishness is the basic state of either humanity or nature. It seems like many animals run in packs, and that the average individual works for the pack. Further, that many animals mate and then proceed to work for their mate and for their offspring.

Theorists of selfishism try to say that "it's selfishness all the way down" when everybody knows it's really turtles. "Individuals only work for the pack because that's good for them, so it's still all selfishness." Yet, it seems to me that the larger outlook of "all for one and one for all" vs. "me for myself" is undeniable, and that reducing both the actions of an abusive partner and a loving partner to 'selfishness' is neither accurate nor constructive.

[FarCenter]

13. Working for yourself produces a living.

Acquiring real wealth requires partcipating in a racket.

[tbyg52]

14. Yep. We need a maximum wage. nt

[treestar]

15. I always hated that interview advice where

You're supposed to convince the job interviewer that you want to work for their company because of its greatness. How fake. Everyone knows most of us work to support ourselves. What is wrong with that? Sheesh.

[tbyg52]

16. True, but things are much more pleasant if you do in fact like your workplace.

I am fortunate right now - I actually enjoy my job.