I'm not going to take food from my family or extra money from my bank account...

[Joe Fields]

just so I can shop some other fucking place other than Wal Mart, got it? I'm not a Rockefeller. In fact, for many years my family and I have lived about as poorly as the Clampetts, before Jed struck oil. My wife and I are doing better financially, than in years past, but to anyone who tells me that I'm anything but someone trying to get the most bang for my buck by shopping at Wal Mart, I want to know what gives them the right to judge me, when you can't find much these days that's made in the U.S., and even when you do, it's STILL cheaper at WalMart.

The ironic thing about this is that I loathe WalMart. I have for decades, but there is NO place cheaper to shop. Let me repeat: THERE IS NO PLACE CHEAPER TO SHOP!!

So, get over yourselves. If you are so concerned about where I shop, maybe you would be kind enough to fork over the difference in cost, and I would gladly shop elsewhere. That's my final word on WalMart, and I would hope that people show just a little more understanding about this topic.

[greenbriar]

1. I am with you

I hate walmart,

but it is stupid for my family not to shop there

[hlthe2b]

12. I hate Walmart... None are close by... Thus, my choice is easy.

I don't judge others for their choices.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

44. we have Thift Stores!!

[pipi_k]

46. What's surprising about the thrift stores...

Not just the poor and elderly are shopping in them anymore. There are even some executive-looking types in there as well.


I personally love the local Goodwill store. I've found some really neat bargains, and I love to read, so spending a dime or a quarter on a paperback or hardback book is fantastic and I can walk out with a bagful of books for less than five dollars.

My local store gives out a little card you present at the checkout counter where you can get one book free per month. And for each $5 you spend, you get a stamp on another card that, when filled, entitles you to a certain amount of money off the total of a future purchase.

I've even donated a bunch of stuff we no longer use here...books, clothing, knicknacks, etc.


I guess in years past there used to be a sort of stigma attached to shopping the thrift/Goodwill stores, but not anymore. I love bragging about how little I paid for certain things. I have this lovely sweater/coat I got for less than ten dollars last year. People can't believe it when I tell them it came from the Goodwill store...

[pitohui]

58. in years past there used to be good stuff at goodwill

not any more, it's most discouraging -- i'm sure some of it is increasing competition from others, which has only grown greater since the early 90s when "grunge" made it acceptable and even popular to shop the thrifts

alas -- at my nearest goodwill i'm pretty sure that "someone" is taking donated items before they reach the shelves because i never see any "good stuff" i've donated put out

in fact i rarely see any good stuff at all put out

there is another goodwill that frequently does has good items, unfortunately it is really too far for me to drive

after katrina, greater new orleans area thrift stores had to refuse accepting clothes as they were overwhelmed so i turned to freecycle for clothes, it actually worked better for me (probably because of my size -- small -- and the fact that i'm offering to pick up the items in people's homes and i actually SHOW UP when i say i will, unlike some of those places that send the postcards) -- i try on and sort the items at home, hell, they're free, if they fit and are flattering, i keep, if they're hopeless i make them into rags usually

[Double T]

2. We all do what we gotta do; specially in these times of the bush/cheney economic depression.

I have found the corrupt wal-mart isn't always the cheapest place to shop; I shop at wal-mart for some things made in the US, but have found other stores offering lower prices and better bargains. If someone doesn't like the fact that that you shop at wal-mart, tough! See you at the checkout!

[pitohui]

63. again it's always the cheapest because it price matches

you take in the other stores ads and walmart will match the sales price on that item

been policy for years

[demwing]

3. K&R. We are sailing the same ship

Cant stand the place, can't shop anywhere else on my budget, and I have no use for being judged on that economic standard.

[kath]

4. Are you sure - out here, the prices at a local discount grocery chain are CHEAPER than Wal-Mart's.

And on some grocery items, prices at SuperTarget are even lower than at the discount grocery chain.

Prices at Walgreens and CVS, on their weekly specials, coupons and rebates are VERY good. Better than Wal-Mart. Aldi's prices can also be very good.

Make a little notebook and compare prices, especially tracking prices on weekly specials, before you say that Wal-Mart is the cheapest. You may be very suprised. Weekly specials are often on a 6- to 8-week cycle. Know what the "rock bottom" prices really are on the items you buy regularly, and stock up (as much as possible, given income limitations) when the rock-bottom prices are available. Clip coupons. At places like Walgreens and Target, you can "double up" and use BOTH a store coupon and a manufacturer's coupon on the same item.

[demwing]

6. The only thing I find of less value at WalMart, despite being cheaper

Is fresh fruits and veggies. Walmart produce goes bad in half the time. Not worth it unless I'm buying only enough for a meal.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

30. I found that I would get a stomachache after eating eggs from Walmart.

Plus a friend of mine agrees with me when I say, their Kraft Macaroni and cheese tastes "funny".

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Costco's veggies are more expensive, but they stay fresh for a very long time, weeks, even.

Since becoming unemployed, I've shopped WalMart more. :shrug:

[K8-EEE]

143. New crop vs. old crop

I'd rather have one new apple than ten tasteless ones that have been sitting in a warehouse for a month! Honestly I think a lot of the reason my niece hates veggies & lives on processed food is because she lives with her grandma in a Walmart-ville (Winnemucca NV) because she was much more open to eating them when she was visiting at my house.

[michreject]

38. WOW!! spend 30 dollars in gas

driving all over the place when you can get it all under one roof.:shrug:

[uppityperson]

99. It takes 15 gal of gas to stop 2 extra places @ mall-land?

:shrug:

[michreject]

105. What's mall land?

Anyway. I don't want to be driving all over the place trying to save money. I save money by not driving. I only get 10 mpg.

[K8-EEE]

142. LOL, hardly!

I actually have one of those little folding shopping carts, it's kinda ole-lady-ish but I don't care -- I take it down to the corner Armenian store and load up on fresh fruit, salad stuff, hummus, almonds, wine, in other words all the major food groups, and CHEAP! That and a once-a-week Costco or TJs run does me just fine, and Costco & Trader Joe's don't treat their employees like shit.

[ACTION BASTARD]

5. No Walmarts in NYC.Luckily I live less than 25 min from Costco, but fuck it do what your gotta do.

[emilyg]

7. I shop WalMart - with no hesitation.

[2Design]

8. things on sale elsewhere are cheaper than walmart - takes a little time but it is better

for the world to keep an eye on sales. with online, you can look for a month or two for high price items to be on sale at some other stores - it takes patience. Groceries, same thing - they are like Best Buy, they run off the competition with their few loss leader items while being higher than others. Best Buy is 20% higher than other stores and when you wait for the sale at the other store you beat the sales Best Buy has. When Best Buy has a sale it only brings their price equal to others.

Just research things and see if this is not true for you and the items you buy over time.

[demwing]

10. I don't speak for the OP, but I do "shop"

and WalMart IS the cheapest place in town on the vast majority of items I need. This is what I often hear when I say I shop at Walmart - "Use coupons and shop around."

No offense to anyone, but I'm 45 years old. I've been shopping discounts for a long, long time, and I understand the concept.

Walmart is still cheaper, on most items. I don't like their policies, I don't like their politics, and I don't think the company is good for America, but I have to deal with the devil to survive, so I do it.

[Joe Fields]

26. you CAN speak for me on this, because what you said is true.

I'm not sure if they mean it this way, but some here make it sound as if I've never even tried to shop anywhere else. Trust me, if there were places cheaper, then I undoubtedly would not darken WalMart's doorway.

[eShirl]

32. I find on average it's about 20% cheaper

I still go to other stores for things Walmart doesn't carry, and while I'm there I look around at their prices. Occasionally the other stores will have something cheaper, but it is *always* a sale item, none of their regular prices are cheaper.

[1monster]

106. I save at least $100 per month by getting my groceries at Walmart. In this area, we have Publix

(very expensive), Winn Dixie (used to be a good place to buy groceries, but is now right up there with Publix in costs, and Food Lion.

My neighbor insists that she saves more money by shopping Food Lion than she would shopping Walmart.

So needing to save as much as possible, I have gone to Food Lion on several different occasions to comparison shop. Every time I compared their prices to Walmarts, I found that Walmarts were cheaper, often quite a bit cheaper...

Walmart is no picnic to shop. It is almost always crowded during the day, and after eight o'clock at night the stockers put huge pallets of merchandise on the floor, blocking ailses and ususally the items I need to get. I'd much rather shop Winn Dixie (or Albertsons which has left our town) any day... If only I could afford it.

[Atman]

61. self delete -- wrong place

.

[pitohui]

66. have you ever bought a pair of cheap jeans? because your example is ridiculous

i have some "faded glory" jeans which i believe to be the walmart brand, they are from freecycle and/or thrift shops and they do not "unravel" or wear any worse than any other pair of jeans, in fact, i've never had a pair wear out

jeans don't wear like that, people give up on jeans because their size changes

in fact, the more expensive the jeans, the more likely that they have been stressed in some way to make them wear and get softer and more unique faster, unraveling is not a bug, it's a feature, and it is certainly not a concern w. the walmart brand

many many many items sold in walmart are actually the same items and brands sold elsewhere -- they are just cheaper -- which is why walmart can price match

example -- i see duracell ultras are on sale at walgreens but i happen to be in walmart so i ask for the price match, voila, a cheap price, the item is of high quality, and i don't have to make an extra stop

i think people who don't shop at walmart and have no idea what products are found therein are just making themselves look ridiculous with their "suggestions," if you don't know what you're talking what's the point of speaking up?

if you have a story to tell, at least make it fact-based and not contrary to the experience of everyone who has actually already done what you're afraid to do and telling us not to do

(on edit-- well i see you have deleted your post, so i'll take that as acknowledgement that your comment was fairly silly)

[Atman]

74. Yes, in fact. I have.

While you are correct, technically, that "many, many, many" items are the same, "many, many, many" items ARE NOT.

A good case in point is Spaulding, the sports equipment manufacturer. A few years back, the generations-old family run company nearly went out of business because Wal Mart DEMANDED that they meet a certain price point. They couldn't do it without outsourcing to China, so that's what they did. And sales fell anyway, because the new Chinese supplier was using a cheaper, harder grade of rubber in their basketballs and what-not, and sports programs began dropping Spaulding's balls in favor of quality brands.

It is a FACT that Wal Mart often dictates manufacturing terms to their suppliers. If you want to be in our stores, you have to change your suppliers. Many companies simply cannot lose the business, so they acquiesce.

You example of Duracell batteries is as ludicrous as you claim my jeans example is -- batteries, like soda and other items, are ALWAYS on sale. Always. If not at Walgreens, next door at CVS, or at the supermarket. Always. I can't remember the last time I paid full retail for batteries.

You nailed it yourself...it saved you an extra stop. It wasn't really about quality or price. It was just convenient for you.

I'm sure the guy who lost his factory job and now flips burgers appreciates the time you saved.

(BTW, by now hopefully you've noticed that I DID NOT delete my post. I just posted it in the wrong place and so moved it).

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. WalMart also did a number on Rubbermaid

Randi Rhodes told that story on the air one day and I wanted to puke.

[mondo joe]

11. There are places with few or no other choices. That's WalMart's MO, to drive other

local businesses out.

[demwing]

13. Exactly

drive out the local hardware store, the local drug store, etc... At some point, it isn't a question of cheaper, its a question of supply. There are things I can't get elsewhere without a 2 hour round trip drive.

[mondo joe]

18. I'm happy that I've never shopped in a WalMart, but I attribute that to having other

options - not personal virtue on my part.

The complainers are doubly foolish because they keep failing to take into account that one of WalMart's strategies is to drive local competition out of business to become the only source in town.

[2Design]

40. that is what I see - they want to be the only one in town

they are like that banker on It's a wonderful life and people don't see they are hurting themselves in the long run

I understand tight money - I do my best and swore off Wal Mart about three years ago.

If you notice, where there is a WalMart there are poor people and they are helping to make them poorer

[onlyadream]

43. It's also the prime directive of

Home Depot
Lowes
Super Markets
The movie multiplexes

[pitohui]

60. well it is transparently NOT TRUE as walmart price matches

why the hell would you run all over town, just bring in the ad from the competitor's grocery stores and get all the low prices in one place?

if you don't buy a newspaper, i don't, no biggie, as walmart actually posts the ads on their walls at the entrance so you can do this

there is no way that walmart can be undersold with this policy

so you are spending a lot of time and gas and you are still not beating the walmart's price, you just didn't understand the walmart policy but it's been that way for years

pretty sure this is a national policy not just in louisiana and mississippi...ASK!

[demwing]

90. Same policy in Utah

How can you beat the lowest price guarantee?

[blockhead]

120. and if everyone does that,

you won't have to worry about the competitors price, there won't be one.

[VPStoltz]

9. We're as poor as church mice and we get along just fine without Wal-Mart.

[eShirl]

36. you obviously have other options

[VPStoltz]

55. Yeah, like copious coupon clipping, shopping farmers markets, NOT buying what I don't need, etc.

[pitohui]

69. prices at farmer's markets several times walmart's prices

sorry we don't all have the budget to feed our families on $10 an ounce oyster mushrooms which i strongly suspect to be kidnapped from the nearby state park where they keep disappearing anyway

our farmer's market is all about the foo-foo food, you cannot feed a family there, it's all $20 jars of honey and $9 wheels of bleu cheese cracker dip -- yikes!

[VPStoltz]

94. It must be a regional thing.

Farmers market prices are competitive here in the NW. The produce lasts longer, tastes better, AND it supports local businesses.
You are assuming that the people who shop at farmers markets are going for the fun experience of buying expensive food - not true.
Just as you might not buy the most expensive brands in a box store, there is no one forcing you to buy what there is expensive (or so you think) at a farmers market.

[Midlodemocrat]

98. How wonderful that you have other options.

A lot of people don't. There's Wal Mart and then there's ...nothing.

But, go ahead. Feel great about yourself that you don't shop there. :eyes:

[Breeze54]

14. We all do what we need to do to survive.

But I don't shop for much of anything anymore.

I don't shop at Walmart at all, even though the prices seem low, they really aren't and everything I've bought from them in the past, either broke or shrunk, in the first week. So, that's why I don't shop there anymore besides the fact that they're the direct reason for so many losing their jobs in the USA and for small businesses going out of business. I can buy stuff at the local hardware store, for example, and I might pay an extra 60 cents but I also save gas and time by shopping there instead of driving all the way over to WM. I buy food at a great grocery store that has quality food and very low prices. I also like buying at yard sales and consignment and second hand shops. I can get well made things that will last a lot longer than any cheap plastic crap from China.

Sorry someone gave you a rough time, Joe Fields. Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving! :hi:

[Common Sense Party]

15. We shop WalMart all the time. We fought to GET a WalMart in our town

so we'd HAVE a place to shop...won't be built for another year.

WM isn't my favorite store by any stretch, and I don't enjoy shopping there (but I don't enjoy shopping ANYWHERE).

But we save a TON of money by buying stuff at WM. So sue me.

[depakid]

17. Say goodbye to local businesses

Frankly, if your town fought FOR a Walmart- you deserve what you'll get.

Low wages, crap merchandise, and drag on your local economy.

[Common Sense Party]

19. B.S. I've lived in a couple of different small towns with WalMarts

and I've traveled to hundreds. They all have WalMarts AND they have thriving local businesses. Local businesses that adapt, specialize, and provide outstanding service will always do well, no matter who moves into town to compete.

[depakid]

29. I've seen TONs of small towns in America, too

and actually read objective economic analyses about the impact Walmarts have on communities....

Not only do they depress wages and drive out local businesses but they literally SUCK MONEY out of communities- thereby depriving them of multiplier effects derived from circulating currency (not to mention putting a strain on health care and food security).

Putting a Walmart into your town is a recipe for (or a symptom of) decline- and only the most shortsighted and/or corrupt of local planners (such as the mayor of Wasilla) would consider inviting them in.

[Common Sense Party]

48. I'll bet they were objective. WalMart could only increase wages

in our valley. No one pays more than $6-7 for entry-level work in our county, and benefits are rare. You can go on believing that WM is the devil incarnate, though. I'll keep on shopping there, thanks anyway.

[depakid]

126. Funny thing about numbers

When you add them all up and use objective measures, they tell a story.

In community after community.

Invite them in- and you help to impoverish yourselves.

I know, some communities seem to like that sort of thing- it's convenient- it's cheap.

But the net result is almost always the same.

Don't take my word for it- look it up for yourself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. When Walmart opened 50 Supercenters in Iowa 500 locally owned stores went out of business

Just wait, you'll see.

One of my dearest friends lives in a small town that asked for a WalMart. Now that is the ONLY store in town. Before WalMart, they had a thriving downtown. Now she can buy milk and bread at a local convenience store but everything else she needs she has to buy at WalMart.

[Common Sense Party]

56. Which town?

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. It's in Kansas

[Common Sense Party]

70. Does the town have a name? n/t

[pitohui]

72. but small towns in kansas are fading anyway, aren't they?

we've heard for years (decades!) about the young women leaving farm country because there is nothing for them there, no future, no decent job, no nothing -- and so the young men follow

none of that is the fault of walmart, it is the story of the world, the bright young people -- esp. the young women who will have grim lives indeed on a farm -- will strive to get educated so that they can move from rural to urban areas and have some hope of a better life, my dad joined the army to escape life on a farm, i bet a lot of our dads did, maybe yours did too, if not, i bet your granddad did, on my mom's side, it goes back to her grandparents who made the escape

the flight from the farm is worldwide, it is not the fault of walmart that life on a small farm is pretty much the definition of misery for most of humanity throughout most of time

it is not my experience that small "mom and pop" stores in small towns pay good wages or decent benefits -- it is quite the opposite!

[K8-EEE]

103. Winnemucca NV was totally RIP small businesses

since WallyWorld moved in....I used to like visiting there when I was a kid, my uncle had the bakery, there was a cool Main Street, now it's WallyWorld Anywhere'sVille USA. Podville!! The ladies even get their HAIR DONE THERE!

Yes, sorry, I think it's creepy. Anybody who truly lives somewhere where they have no choice but to have WalMart in their life, I say, GET OUT!

I have one about 5 miles from me (in Van Nuys CA) but never I mean never never NEVER go there.....I walked in the day it opened out of curiosity and couldn't get out fast enough.

Here in L.A. we have tons of choices.

[depakid]

129. It's not just creepy- it's impoverishing

and spreads its illness like a virus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGzHBtoVvpc

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. About 10 years ago Wal-mart and Home Depot moved in here and the only businesses that died were

a Frank's Nursery and Craft (chain store) and a Caldor department store, also a chain. Caldor was replaced by a Kohl's which is is still in business.

We have a Circuit City, which will probably close but not because of Wal-mart. Best Buy decided to open a store up here too.

All of the small hardware and lumber yards survived.

Wal-mart filled a vacuum as we didn't have any deep discount stores until it came in.

I very rarely frequent Wal-mart, but when I do, it's only to get things at a good price that I need immediately. Most of the times it's cooking tools that are twice as expensive in the grocery stores.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. Just a little note:

I did some computer work for my good friend and much-loved mentor, The Gay Episcopal Priest. He and his SO asked me what I wanted for the work. I told him that I needed a new coffeemaker. I said I would come in cheap. I looked and waited, and suddenly, the Zojirushi, one hell of a fine machine, was on sale for $59.00 with free shipping, at NewEgg. So they ordered it and I am drinking the best joe I have ever had at home. The Zojirushi is back up to its normal price, $89.00.

NewEgg is a surprising place.

Also, I got a pair of Rockport blacks and a pair of Reebok DMX walking shoes(white) at a second pair/half off sale that is taking place at Reebok outlets. The DMX's are heaven on your feet.

Try either at Wally World. I will admit, however, I cannot get food prices anywhere else like I can at a Super Walmart. And the Walmart Columbian coffee is sublime.

[Joe Fields]

22. I paid ten dollars for new, comfortable tennis shoes, fifteen dollars for

a coffee maker, twenty dollars a piece for lined corduroy shirts(45 dollars for same shirts at LLBean, 40 dollars at Bass Pro for same shirts, cannot be found at Macy's, Target, Penney's or Sears.) etc...

As for groceries, we save roughly fifteen percent on food across the board by shopping at the WalMart Supercenter near where I live. One thing I won't buy there is meat.

I thank you for your suggestion, but I am proactive, which means that I have shopped elsewhere, but keep coming back to WalMart, because everything that I buy is eventually cheaper there. New Egg is a good place to shop for many things. My son turned me on to it, and most of my computer hardware comes from there. Plus their shipping can't be beat.

[uncle ray]

49. those are "cheaper" products, not the "same".

chances are your coffee maker will break sooner and have a worse warranty. your shirts will be threadbare sooner.

anybody who has really studied their practices will find that they demand their suppliers cut costs, often by cheapening their product, so even what appears to be the exact same product is often a cheaper version made to meet wal marts price point.

there is much more to the cost and value of a product than it's sticker price.

no doubt a 70 dollar coffee maker is not 6 times better than a 15 dollar one from wal mart, but a 20 or 25 dollar one may very well be more than twice as good as the wal mart unit. did you shop around to find which coffee maker was the best value, or did you buy the $15 one on the assumption that the cheapest is the best value because it is the cheapest?

[Joe Fields]

107. I don't buy cheaply made products.

[eShirl]

37. that's great if you can afford name-brands

[pilsengirl]

20. Are you serious?

I don't really give a shit where you buy the crap you think you need but do you have to be such an ass about it? There are cheaper places to shop and better ways to buy the things we all need everyday no matter where you live.

[Joe Fields]

23. you don't even know where I live...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

how presumptuous....

[Skittles]

21. everyone pays for your savings

EVERYONE - I understand why people feel the need to shop there but it completely STINKS

[Joe Fields]

24. yep, and it's a bitch. I didn't create this economy.

I just try to survive in it.

[Skittles]

88. Walmart did good in a great economy too

because people care more about cheap crap from China than they do about child labor or environmental concerns

[Joe Fields]

108. If you're trying to make me feel guilty, you're wasting your time.

I don't have a clue as to what your income level is, but you need to walk a few miles in other people's shoes before you pass judgment on them.

[Skittles]

139. I am not wealthy

by a LONG SHOT

[MrSlayer]

25. Do whatever you want. I refuse to shop there on principle.

Wal Mart is the scum of the Earth and will never get a bent penny from me.

[Kire]

27. The American Heritage Dictionary’s usage panel found it unacceptable to use the word ironic to...

The American Heritage Dictionary’s usage panel found it unacceptable to use the word ironic to describe mere unfortunate coincidences or surprising disappointments that “suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly.”

For example, your post, and this and this.

I have been living on quarters, dimes and nickels for the past two weeks. Now I am down to pennies.

I buy stuff at Wal Mart all the time. Little stuff. But, I warn you, don't buy your watches there, unless you want it to break in only three or four months, and then you'll buy another watch when you could get a nice one at Macy's or another place that sells quality watches that will last a long time.

This whole economic crisis is a tragedy, that is the right word for it, don't cheapen it by trying to find something ironic about it. There is no need to shout. You might wake the neighbors, who are struggling, too.

Warm Regards,

Erik B. Anderson
Independence Township, New Jersey
Established 1782

[Joe Fields]

28. I find it ironic that a person (you) who has taken the time and trouble to

take me to task over the use of the word 'ironic' doesn't see the irony of having to shop a place I loathe. I believe there IS a lesson in there...

[Kire]

33. is there a lesson about human vanity or folly in it?

what is your definition of irony?


don't feel bad, I'm not singling you out, I have been taking everyone to task for using the word ironic and ironically to task.

there is really nothing funny about real tragedy

this is what I call ironic
http://www.new.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=917631&l=6f50d&id=502872195

winning a prize for being a punk rocker

[Joe Fields]

109. I think there's a lesson to be learned in everything we do.

I don't feel bad in pointing out your folly in singling me out. It isn't enough to know a textbook meaning, for words have many meanings and connotations. In my case that you point out, I think most people would see irony in it. So, the question becomes, if my example does not meet the definition (and I think it does), then when does myth become accepted fact?

[Kire]

113. myth becomes fact when

people start accepting the lie

[Joe Fields]

124. Bingo!

Although it still doesn't apply in my case.

[Kire]

125. Of course not...

...you are free from the laws of time, space and logic.

:dilemma:

[Joe Fields]

128. Man, you can't be serious. You need to get a grip.

Explain to me in detail, what is NOT ironic about shopping at a place that you absolutely loathe?

Or do you just like to poke and prod people into silly little arguments, which are pathetically falsely based?

[Kire]

138. you're the one who says it is ironic

so the burden of proof is on you, my friend

I think shopping in a place that you loathe is just plain miserable. Irony has something to do with a sense of humor, and you don't seem to be having one right now.

I'm not poking and prodding. I am replying to something you are continuing to reply to.

And I thank you for sticking with me so far, so that we can come to some sort of mutual understanding.

Sincerely

Erik B. Anderson
Independence Township, New Jersey
Established 1782

[pitohui]

77. i'm really sorry about what happened to walmart's watches

they had a wonderful diving watch, the aquatech watch, which sold for $6 and which battery lasted for 2 years, and you could even wear it while snorkeling as well in the shower (i did both) -- it was wonderful for travel, because they had an alarm in them, you could make them light up, did i mention i could snorkel in them?

then they took them off the market and replaced them with a $7 or $8 "water resistant" watch that can't go swimming, snorkeling, or even in the shower

bummer!

i agree w. you, if you search the internet, you will see what i'm talking about -- walmart had a GREAT product in that watch and they yanked it off the market

so i'm mad about the watches too

[Kire]

93. I guess I shouldn't have said every watch

but my father bought me a wal mart watch that lasted more than five years

now that he has been gone since 2003, I wanted to buy the same watch over the summer, so I did

The band fell off just moments after I lit a candle for another friend that died years ago at the UU Fellowship services, so I took it a sign. If I am going to buy another watch, it is going to be special, like from Macy's (which is special to me for reasons that would be off topic) where I got my latest watch for $115 the day before election day.

Wal Mart just ain't special.

Best of Luck to everyone in this hard economy, but don't let fear determine where you make your purchases, especially after what happened yesterday.

Warm Regards,

Erik B. Anderson
Independence Township, New Jersey
Established 1782

[ClayZ]

31. I am so broke I can't pay attention.

[Vinca]

34. It's frustrating. Walmart has managed to run much of its competition

out of town so if you want to purchase basic items, you're pretty much stuck. I despise the place and rarely go there, but I understand people who have to shop there for financial considerations or because goods aren't available elsewhere.

[Le Taz Hot]

41. Well, let's see if we can list the Zeitgeists around here

these days.

You're vermin and you don't deserve to be around decent libruls if you:

-shop at Wal Mart
-go shopping on Black Friday
-don't make your own Christmas gifts
-celebrate Christmas in any way
-bag your own groceries
-bring your own grocery cart in from the parking lot
-drive any sort of motor vehicle
-in any petroleum products in any way

I think that about covers it.

Dude(ette), we get by how we get by. No one else can tell you how to live. The people around here who want to judge you only believe in live-and-let-let-live so long as it applies to everyone else. Do whatever you need to do.

Peace out

LTH

[onlyadream]

42. I never knew it WAS a crime to shop there...

Never got the memo.

I shop at Walmart, Target & Costco. I have a Target visa card and charge everything and get points so that every month they send me a 10% off coupon which saves me about 25 bucks a month. They also donate money to my kids' school (so far over $1000!!).

[old mark]

45. We have shopped at Walmart for years, will continue to do so.

Some people are not happy unless they are looking down at others and feeling superior.
Quite a lot of them are on this site.

It is a shame there are so many people who feel it is their place to tell others how to live, but I find a lot of people on the left like that, and I guess I should expect that type os facism here.

mark

[Common Sense Party]

71. Well said.

[pipi_k]

47. I don't generally buy from the chain stores....

instead buying from the "little guys" on eBay, even if they're a dollar or two more than the big stores.

But I have, on occasion, bought from WalMart (online...I have never actually set foot in a real store)

I often buy music downloads from Walmart online.


And sometimes I even buy stuff from Canadian merchants. But I figure that's OK since 98% of my ancestors had been in Canada since the 1600s and before...I can support both countries

:7

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. There are no KMarts or Targets where you live?

:shrug:

[RandomThoughts]

52. Poverty and the fear of not being able to care for those you love.

Can keep a people in submission, and acting against the interest of themselfs and others.

I find the sadness is how our own poverty can be used to get us to allow workers elsewhere to be treated wrongly. And to get us to treat our own neighbors as a lesser.

If you want your society to allow bad treatment, make them choose between survival and acceptance.

This is the true evil of corruption, the scorched earth of evil, that knows this method brings everyone lower and lower, deeper and deeper, the downward spiral.

There are some that rule, that believe society must be constantly set upon each other. They must war and fight, for as soon as a brother loves his brother regardless of religion, race, creed, class, or so many trumped up social statuses, once we no longer fight each other, we are allowed to think, and suddenly the veil is removed from the secrecy of the few, that have set us against one another too profit and to hide in the smoke and dust of our battles.

And this is their rational, if the masses are not given enemies within their own ranks to fight, the masses will turn on the ruling body to seek information or comfort, or even to seek justice.

Ideal minds... think. And a thinking population is the greatest fear of those who rule unjustly.

Also notice how I say that people would demand equality from leaders, yet this would be perceived as a battle. So to them, to keep the masses battling each other is not an evil, it is a trade off, or a release of pressure that will always exist, and something they do not want released on them. However justice, real justice, and equality would also release the pressure, since their would be less to find objectable. But the few like their status, even if it is not justice, so they must hide and distract.

[southernyankeebelle]

53. So true

We have a super wal mart where I live. It is the only game in town. Any of the small mom and pop stores that are left open the prices are to high. Wal Mart cheats even the corporations that sell their wares. They force them to sell at low, low prices so they can put it in their stores. I don't want to harm workers that work at Wal Mart. I have a family member working there and that family member hands out paychecks to its employees. Family members wonders how some of these people make it on their paychecks. Some get the healthcare but it is a terrible plan and costs alot of money but some feel its better than no plan at all. Management is scared to death that they will unionize now that Obama is elected. These people and alot of people that work in stores like they do deserve better than what they are getting. We really need a single payer plan for health care and it would help business and employees alike. Wal Mart is the cheapest place in town. We have no choice. I support the employees and not the management.

[CreekDog]

54. you could save even more buying stolen goods

your conscience still should rule, no matter how low the price is.

[Radical Activist]

79. I think stealing is a better moral choice

in many cases than shopping at Walmart. Depending on who you steal from, it causes less human suffering. Stealing something that no one is using anyway doesn't cause young girls in China to get their fingers mutilated. It doesn't force a family in the Philippines to supplement the family income by prostituting their children because the factory making goods for Walmart doesn't pay enough to buy food for everyone. As long as you aren't stealing from someone struggling to get by, I think its a better moral choice than shopping at Walmart. But, that's obviously not a risk most people can take.

[pitohui]

57. i'm with you, joe

if the h8ers have anything left over, they can ship a few $$$ my way too if they want me to quit walmart

the price difference is just too great for a lot of basic items and we're struggling as it is

[backwoodsbob]

67. I hear ya

my favorites are the one's who look down their noses at WM shoppers but continually post about how they will only buy foreign cars.

:argh:

[Joe Fields]

111. Well, I really don't understand how people can hate on the lower class.

Like we have a lot of options.

[kiva]

62. I'm with you, Joe.

What I find so odd here is the idea of Main Street as some sort of idealized paradise. I grew up in a small town (1950s and 60s) with a Main Street made up of businesses run by people who paid their employees mininum wage, didn't pay benefits, and had NO sense of "customer service"--they didn't need to, since there was little competition. I'm not knocking all mom and pop businesses, but remember that their motive is profit (same as the chain stores), and many do not flinch at exploiting their employees and customers.

[Atman]

68. No one is saying "Main Street." We're saying NOT WAL MART.

When you buy from Wal Mart, you buy from Chinese near-slave labor. Period. It's not about intentionally paying MORE just to avoid Wal Mart. You don't have to buy from a Main Street boutique.

For instance...in my area we have the usual European-based grocery chains -- Shaws/Albertson's, Stop & Shop, plus a regional chain, owned buy a local family since the 1930's. They were a client of mine, because they were local and I could service them. I can't do that with a Dutch-owned conglomerate. So, they pay me, my money stays local, I make it a point to shop at their market, which is every bit as nice as the giant chains. And then some. On top of that, they buy produce from LOCAL farmers, and even tell you which farm the stuff came from. So again, MORE MONEY IS STAYING IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY, supporting the area, helping keep MORE farms and local suppliers from closing down BECAUSE THEY CAN'T COMPETE WITH WAL MART.

You keep buy melamine and lead-based products produced by slave and prison labor. Sure. You're really helping your family that way. Maybe with all the money you save you'll be able to afford the medical care when they get sick from poisoned food or lead-based toys.

.

[K8-EEE]

102. Repukes have scored with the "I can't afford to not have slave labor" thing

It's kind of a modern redux of the old "I can't afford to be a farmer without slaves" back in the 1860's.

[Common Sense Party]

73. That describes our Main Street businesses to a T.

They couldn't give a crap about customer service. They pay LESS than WalMart. They give no benefits. Many of them hire illegal immigrants that barely speak English, so they can pay them even less. We have NO clothing stores in town. No shoe stores. No electronics stores. Town residents routinely drive 30-40 minutes to other areas to get these products, which greatly increases carbon output.

[Atman]

64. Totally self-centred and ignoring WHY Wal Mart is so "cheap."

I remember an interview a couple of years ago on NPR or something. They were discussing the ramifications of a new Wal Mart near an old fabric mill in North Carolina. The woman being interviewed explained how the fabric mill shut down a couple of years ago, and that no one had jobs hre anymore, so she HAD TO shop at Wal Mart. Much as the OP is saying.

The interviewer explained to the woman that the very reason the mill shut down was BECAUSE OF WAL MART. They took all the mill's business and bought everything from China instead.

The woman said "Oh. I didn't know that. But the prices can't be beat! I'm still going to shop there!"

I understand the "you do what you gotta do" attitude. But it is pure ignorance to think that one's support of Wal Mart doesn't have ramifications for the broader economy.

One more example of selfishness in America. Wal Mart is NOT helping you save money. You're saving two dollars on a pair of crap jeans that will unravel in three months, at which point you'll have to buy another pair...and you'll return to Wal Mart because you saved two dollars last time. If you simply paid an extra four bucks in the first place for a quality product, it would last much longer and you wouldn't have to keep returning to Wal Mart to ship your hard-earned money to the Chinese.

.

[Joe Fields]

112. Fucking right, guilty as charged, and I'm not apologizing one bit.

So shove your smug assed, high horse attitude.

[Fumesucker]

65. Strange...

My wife prefers I do the grocery shopping because I get more product for less money than she does.

She prefers Walmart because "their prices are lower".

And yet I shop almost all of the time at Kroger.

I use the store discount card and carefully watch the sales and our overall grocery bill is less when I do the shopping... At Kroger.

I don't like the crowds in Walmart, I don't like the slovenly way the store and parking lot are kept and I don't like the much longer lines at the checkout.

For anything of any value other than everyday consumables I can get a better price online than I can at Walmart.

[pitohui]

80. well that IS strange and contrary to my personal experiencei w, kroger which was BAD

i had the misfortunate of having to care for a sick relative in a town where the options were kroger and walmart

kroger was so obscenely expensive that i wanted to cry every time i ran out to pick up groceries for her, it was just incredible -- unfortunately she did prefer kroger, i think she was unaware that walmart even had a grocery section where some of the items could be had much cheaper

i don't understand how older people on a fixed income can survive those prices

it may be just that particular area, where people are perceived to have money, i don't know, but i would never voluntarily shop at a kroger after that

it was truly truly frightening to me

and you had to have a loyalty card to get prices that even approached the realm of what people could pay, so everything you bought was being "tracked" (at least at that time, it's been a few years, i hope they've fixed SOMETHING about their awful business model)

[Common Sense Party]

82. When we get WM here, I imagine we'll still shop Smith's for produce

and certain fresh meats, but most of the dry goods and canned goods and household staples are going to be MUCH cheaper at WalMart.

[Fumesucker]

84. I've tried all the store brands and like the great majority of them..

The only Kroger brand item I really didn't like was the bacon and it's not like we eat that every day.

Peanut butter, canned fruit, cereal and lots of other items I buy the store brand exclusively.

I buy the "buy one get one free" items as much as possible and generally just watch the prices closely.

My time is also worth something and it takes me at least twice as long to get in and out of Walmart as Kroger.

We had a Publix which I liked a lot but they couldn't make a go of it and closed after about a year and a half.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

91. Ditto for me.

I do my grocery shopping at Safeway, which is considered one of the more expensive chains. Yet they always have good sales and "buy one get one free" deals on things I buy regularly. I've never found the prices at WM to be all that great, and certainly not considerably lower for items that I need all the time. The cheapest things in the store are usually those "loss leaders" that they put at the front of the aisles. Sure, I can pick up a wiffle ball bat for 29 cents but that's not what I went in for. The shampoo or whatever that I'm probably there for might be 4 cents lower than at Target or a grocery or drug store. Big whoop. And remember, taxpayers, that the discount you get from WM is offset by the health care and other social service expenses that the state has to pick up because they don't pay their workers benefits. When you're looking at your property taxes or filing your income taxes, figure a certain percentage to be your WalMart Premium. Whee! We all get to pay for it.

[Joe Fields]

114. I have no idea what you purchase, but there are no Krogers where I live.

There used to be, and they were run out of town because their prices were too high.

[Fumesucker]

141. If I went into both stores and just put things in the basket without looking at prices..

Kroger would almost certainly be more expensive.

But that's not what I do.

I'm saying that when I shop wisely and carefully at Kroger, taking advantage of sales and their excellent store brands, I can get more of the food I want for less money than I can at Walmart.

And our Kroger is right across the street from the Super Walmart, has been for nearly fifteen years.

[leftofthedial]

75. yeah! Fuck America! Fuck Americans!

I'll buy the cheapest goddamned thing I can find! I don't care how many slaves died making it!

I don't care that Amurkans shopping at Wal*Mart is a big part of what keeps Amurkans too poor to shop anywhere else!

Fuck Amurka! I'll shop anygoddamnedwhere I fuckingwell want!

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

144. I imagine that if a person saying...

"...I don't care how many slaves died making it!"

I imagine that a person saying that as a back-handed compliment would necessarily own absolutely nothing made in *any* despotic economy. Without qualifiers, of course.

Otherwise, I imagine they're most likely simply projecting their own lack of perfection-- a lack we all share.

Edited: clarity

[TexasObserver]

76. you have to put food on your family

Bush said so.

[Radical Activist]

78. I find things for the same price or less at KMart and Target.

But I've stopped participating in the corporate economy for the most part. I don't buy much and I often buy things used. I shop at the co-op when I can afford it and I've found Aldis to be as cheap as Walmart.

[pitohui]

81. does kmart and target have a grocery store? ours don't

no aldis or costco here

[Radical Activist]

83. There are small towns

where Walmart has put all the competition out of business along with the better paying jobs that once existed. I realize its hard to find other places to shop there. But even in most of those small towns, there's some kind of discount grocer like Aldis or a "nearly expired" bread store. Ultimately, a person has to choose whether they want to live by their ideals or make excuses and live in a way that harms others. There's no shortage of excuses.

[backwoodsbob]

85. wallyworld put a few locals out of business here

EVERY local they put out of business payed minimum wage with zero benefits.

Wallyworld here pays like 10.50 plus bennies.They OUTPAY the companies they put under by several dollars an hour.

I think the latte drinking side should quit romanticizing those family stores as the be all end all of work places.Most of them were minimum wage shitholes without bennies.

[Radical Activist]

86. And where do the profits go?

Back into the community like they would for a local store or back to Arkansas? Does that benefit the community in the long run? No, it doesn't. Walmart acts as a parasite that takes out of a community and puts little back in economically. That's why so many of their employees are on welfare. Its another way they take from a community while giving back as little as possible. Does it benefit the small towns that used to have factories with good paying union jobs that got shut down and shipped to China?

Nice use of a talk radio attack line there. There's nothing "latte" about wanting people to make a decent wage. I've lived and have friends in enough small towns that were destroyed when the factory got shipped to China because of Walmart and now the only options are working at Walmart or going on welfare. Most people do both. How long do you think the US economy can survive if we keep going in that direction? But hey, I guess sneering about the "latte crowd" makes you feel better about putting people out of work?

The number of low wage jobs Walmart creates will NEVER equal the damage they do to rural economies. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[LanternWaste]

145. Fortunately, it's only rarely an either-or proposition.

"person has to choose whether they want to live by their ideals or make excuses and live in a way that harms others."

Fortunately, it's only rarely an either-or proposition, and certainly not one in this particular scenario...

[pnorman]

87. To me, the ONLY "No-No!" would be crossing a bona fide picket line!

Of personal necessity, I do ALL my shopping on-line (including groceries). I live by myself and prepare almost all my food from basic ingredients (ie: almost NO cans or other finished products), So Walmart wouldn't have much attraction for me anyhow.

At the suggestion of a union friend, I got a CostCo card, and made a few on-line purchases that satisfied me. That outfit is "worker-friendly", and many branches are under a union contract. I haven't checked it out yet, but I'm told that CostCo is quite competitive with WalMart. Give it a look-see.

Once again: If family necessity COMPELS you to shop Walmart, then DO IT, and without apologies! But DON'T rationalize it in any other way than grim necessity. And DON'T cross a bona fide picket line!

pnorman

[dysfunctional press]

89. and that mindset that permeates the population is exactly why we as a country and a society...

will not be making any meaningful change anytime soon.

yay us!

[Joe Fields]

116. when you straighten out that pretzel logic let me know.

I could give you a complete, off the cuff discourse as to why this society is the way that it is, and why we won't be making any change soon, but your premise falls way down on the list.

[dysfunctional press]

130. it ALL boils down to the same mindset-

i.e. "fuck everyone else, i'm in it to take care of me and mine alone, and everyone else can just do the same."

it's a VERY republican sentiment.


united we stand, divided we fall.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

95. I hate WalMart, but I shop there occasionally....

I hate myself for it, but their Friskies cat food is cheap and I like their womens jeans and their Levis for kids. We have other choices in this area besides Walmart, but sometimes it is more convenient and cost effective to shop Walmart even though I know that I should flat out boycott them.... :hide:

[AZBlue]

96. I'm right there with you. I hate every moment I'm shopping there, but I do need to eat.

[Orsino]

97. If you can afford to shop elsewhere, you should.

That much is about you, and you are the best judge of what you are able to do.

The rest isn't about you, though. It's about the people whose jobs are killed by the company that didn't have to grow so huge, and the sweatshop conditions that are perpetuated in part by Wal-Mart's demand. Because these things aren't about you, I will (respectfully) return your suggestion to you, and recommend your getting over a little bit more of yourself.

If you can afford it. Wal-Mart's low prices are the bait and the trap, since the company's carnivorous growth makes local economies in which people can't--or think they can't--afford to shop elsewhere.

Could you afford to compromise, even a little? Are there some things you could consider buying elsewhere?

[K8-EEE]

104. Don't you think the powers that be have MADE it so you HAVE to

shop at WalMart, get stuff made overseas, etc.?? The stuff is made overseas, no good manufacturing jobs, no discretionary income, no choice but WallyWorld....it's a vicious circle.

[KG]

100. shun! shun the wal-mart shopper! shun!

[K8-EEE]

101. Ehh......I don't buy the "I have to shop at WalMart" thing.

You WANT to shop there, OK -- I would encourage people to look for alternatives.

We're not rich, not shopping there and our kids aren't starving. I mean, "taking food out your kids' mouths" etc., please. God knows what poison you expose kids to by buying cheap "made in china" crap. I'd rather buy second-hand quality stuff at ta Thrift Shop, (matter of fact, I do!)

I shop at Costco and the deals are plenty good there -- and, they treat their employees with respect and pay decent wages.

[Joe Fields]

117. I don't have to shop there.

I can afford to shop elsewhere. But if I do, then I would have to probably ditch my satellite, or my internet. Which one would you do without?

[Forkboy]

119. Oy vey.

[Joe Fields]

122. spare me your faux scorn, please. Too much fake shit here as it is.

[Forkboy]

127. No, it's real.

:hi:

[Joe Fields]

133. Then you're fucking stupid. You don't know me.

But if we were to stay on the subject of sacrifice, I'd like to know just what your finances are, what you purchase, where, what you donate, how much money you donate, how much you tithe at church, if you even go to church, what you do without, or are you well enough off that you can shop at Dillards, Macy's or wherever that is SOOOOOOOmuch better than WalMart. Do you even know what some of these other chain's business models and practices are? What their politics are? Are you married? Do you have kids? Do you make them go without, so that you can feel better about yourself for not buying at the cheapest place possible?

You don't know me.

So take your accusations and your insinuations and ram them up your snout.

[Forkboy]

137. Judging from this thread and your dipshit attitude it's a good thing I don't know you.

Sounds like a major plus for my life.

I'd like to know just what your finances are

$667 per month income.

what you purchase

Not a whole lot. Food, cat supplies, toiletries. Me splurging is buying a used CD.

where

Market Basket for food, dollar stores for household goods and cat food.

how much money you donate

Due to my income, not a lot. I gave money to Kucinich, Edwards and Obama, I give a little to a local food pantry, and a little to a local homeless shelter.

how much you tithe at church

Don't go.

what you do without

Up until this summer when the SSI came through just about everything. No cable, 2 years with no internet , I live in a room with no heat, and I have no car. You can't even give up your precious satellite tv. The horror....

are you well enough off that you can shop at Dillards

Two guesses. First one doesn't count.

Do you even know what some of these other chain's business models and practices are?

I try to inform myself and judge if their policies are bad enough that my shopping there would bother me. In Wal-Mart's case that's a big YES. In some instances I'm sure I have bought something from a bad company, but when I find out if they're bad I stop giving them my business. You know what Wal-Mart is like but simply don't care.

What their politics are?

See above.

Are you married?

Separated

Do you have kids?

No, apparently they turn people into selfish assholes.

Do you make them go without, so that you can feel better about yourself for not buying at the cheapest place possible?

Because kids can't live without satellite tv..... :rofl:

[dysfunctional press]

131. ...

gee...i don't know- which one would jed clampett have done without...?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

what a phony p.o.s.

[Joe Fields]

134. kiss my ass. you live in a cave? I see YOU have internet...

[dysfunctional press]

135. please, don't stop there...

i can really use the laughs.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Joe Fields]

136. you have a weak sense of humor, out of place, really, if you think that was funny.

[dysfunctional press]

140. heavy-ham-handed pathos can be VERY amusing...

and it seems to be your forte.

congrats. :hi:

[LanternWaste]

146. As does the Southern Baptist, holier-than-thou

heavy-ham-handed pathos can be VERY amusing..."

Also, the straight-from-a-Southern Baptist-televangelist, holier-than-thou, You're-Going-to-Hell judgments being made again and again on this thread be quite bemusing too...

[Celeborn Skywalker]

123. Most stuff

ANYWHERE is made in China now. JC Penny's, Sears, you name it. Wal Mart is hardly alone.

[JCMach1]

110. There have to be places AS cheap.

I lived in a tiny rural area growing (nearest groceries 18miles). We would drive 35 miles to go to the bulk/warehouse type of grocery to save money. Today there are still dozens of options. Yeah, most of them won't have everything at the cheaper price. However, if I were making 2 short trips a weak to a couple of different stores it would be easily doable in about the same time it takes to get to Wmart.

If it is the only option then bless you for living in such a place.

[Doremus]

118. Never say never. Here are two options for you.

One, I have found Aldi's food prices to be much cheaper than WalMart. You might want to see if there are any Aldi stores in your area with their store locator at the link below.

http://www.aldifoods.com/us/html/service/store_locator_ENU_HTML.htm

Two, for food I highly recommend Angel Food Ministries. Their food is delicious, healthy and downright CHEAP, ex. $30 for a family of 4 for a week. There is a link on their site to find the nearest distribution point in your area.

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/menu_0812en.asp


For soft goods, shop your local thrifts. There are many benefits over Walmart: cheaper, greener and your money usually goes to a local charity instead of supporting corporate greed.


See? No need to sell your soul, unless you want to. There are *always* alternatives.

[complain jane]

121. I'm concerned about where I shop and that's about it.

Do what works best for you.