harvesting organs minutes after the heart stops

[undergroundpanther]

The number of kidneys, livers and other body parts surgeons are harvesting through a controversial approach to organ donation has started to rise rapidly, a trend that is saving the lives of more waiting patients but, some say, risks sacrificing the interests of the donors.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/03/19/MNG6KONJBF1.DTL

[physioex]

1. Not a medical expert on death....

But from what I learnt in CPR when your heart stops beating, every minute means 10% less chance of living. So that means 10min after your heart stops, your brain is pretty much gone forever. How many examples are there of persons who have lost their heart beat for more than 10mins and recovered?

On Edit: Regardless of this one particular article, I encourage all DUers to sign up for organ donation on their driver's license.....

[noamnety]

4. 10 minutes, okay. But 75 seconds?

"In Denver, surgeons at Children's Hospital wait 75 seconds before starting to remove hearts from infants, to maximize the chances that the organs will be usable."

[Quakerfriend]

2. good morning, undergroundpanther. Nice to see you

:hi:

Wow, this IS really pushing the envelope.

Reminds me of a book I read recently: Body Brokers, by Mary Cheney (no relation). It tells about the very lucrative and high stakes underground business of selling body parts of the dead. People who think their loved ones have been cremated need to think again. It's a must read!

[undergroundpanther]

5. Hey Quake!

reminds me .. DYK online you can buy a necklace made of human finger bones..for like 300 bucks? Real finger bones that once belonged to someone? Oh and the medical industry.. where do you think practice cadaver body parts come from?
And It makes me wonder about all the dead people who were not recovered in New Orleans..Who were not identified...I bet some ghoul made a chunk of change brokering thier body parts..

[MrSlayer]

3. Quite frankly I believe they do less to save you if you are an organ donor.

There is big money in harvesting organs.

[undergroundpanther]

6. Living people in india

whho are poor and need food will sell some blood or a kidney to brokers who in turn sell it to rich and sick americans.

[Bucky]

7. Having had several organ donor organizations for clients, I strongly disagree

It's big bucks, yes, but the doctors who run the organ donor organizations heavily regulate and supervise these things. And you can't take anything out of a deceased person's body without family consent. They end up losing a lot of quality organs that way, but they don't object to that requirement.

It's a highly ethical practice. These people are not ghouls

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I agree with you

I would also like to point out that there are some people who should not be organ donors--those who have a blood disease like Hepatitis C--because they can pass on their illness via the organ donation. When my husband was diagnosed, he reluctantly changed the status on his driver's license.

[NorthernSpy]

10. I agree with you. There's a real incentive for letting some patients die...

Especially if they're uninsured.

[Serendipitous]

11. I have family and friends in the healthcare industry

And I think it's really sad that some folks make the bold assumption that these doctors and coordinators are unethical as a rule.

That is not the norm nor the "rule".

[NorthernSpy]

12. and I think it's naive to assume that incentives don't influence behavior...

... even among self-consciously ethical people and institutions.

[Serendipitous]

13. I am not naive... just not a cynic. I believe in the the goodness of people.

The Cynics (Greek: κῠνικός, Latin: cynici) were an influential school of ancient philosophers. They rejected the social values of their time, often flouting conventions in shocking ways to prove their point. A popular conception of the intellectual characteristics is the modern sense of "cynic," implying a sneering disposition to disbelieve in the goodness of human motives and a contemptuous feeling of superiority. Properly speaking though, it is possible to be a (philosophic) cynic without feeling superior.

[NorthernSpy]

14. people are rarely so bad as when they're trying to do good...

If we stop trying to save this one guy's life, we could save the lives of six other people!

I'm not sneering. I'm merely pointing out that the only thing needed to induce good people to do bad things is a good reason.

[physioex]

15. This is silly......

Most healthcare workers if not all I know would treat a Pt. the same regardless of ability to pay. The real problem is due to lack of funding our hospitals and not focusing our energy on prevention.

[JNelson6563]

9. I'll donate mine

just before all fades to black. I'm not providing anyone incentive to hurry things along.

;-)

[Horse with no Name]

16. As a MAJOR proponent of organ donation

I have to say that this bothers me.
Agreed that the length of time in establishing brain death DOES reduce the viability of the organs, but I believe that a little bit longer wait should be utilized if nothing else but to deter the appearance of "overeagerness".
75 seconds isn't enough by any standards, IMHO, especially in a child.

[mikelewis]

17. Lazarus Phenomenon- Man spontaneously returns to life after 26 mins of clinical death...

...wouldn't it suck to wake up from the dead to find them ripping out your kidney.

Lazarus Phenomenon
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The Lazarus Phenomenon is the unexpected return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after resuscitation has been abandoned. The term is named after Lazarus, who according to the Bible was raised from the dead by Jesus.

Although no single cause has been identified, there have been several mechanisms of survival postulated for Lazarus phenomenon patients. Hyperkalaemia associated with renal failure can cause cardiac arrest, and in one such case survival has been documented, with appropriate treatment, after 26 minutes of asystole.

Also, in most cases in cardiac arrest the EEG becomes flat within about 10 seconds. <1>

In their noble rush to save lives, hopefully they are taking the care necessary to ensure the first life was done with all the stuff they're harvesting.