Uh-oh Franken now losing votes in key counties

[edhopper]

He needs to pick up votes in the Hennepin and St. Louis counties where his strongest support is.
http://ww2.startribune.com/news/metro/elections/returns/2008/recount/msenco.html

This is a real nail-biter.

[Posteritatis]

1. Whatever happens, this will at least shut the "what does one vote matter?" guys up

The idea of an election with multiple millions of people voting coming down to a margin smaller than the number of people on my not-that-large street astonishes me.

[bluestateguy]

2. Um, can we not have the hand-wringing?

Thank you.

[edhopper]

16. Why can't I wring my hands

if I want.
You're not the boss of me.

[hlthe2b]

3. By just a bit.. still not time to panic, in my mind...

On your website linked it shows
Coleman has 1,210,980 and Franken has 1,210,831 with 65% of votes recounted.

By my calculation that means Franken is behind 149 votes (was about 120 this morning)....

I had read the remaining counties to be recounted were less red or even overtly blue....and it looks like 26% precincts remain to be recounted.

So, Minnesotans, what does this mean? Is it really going to go to court challenge on the 850 plus challenged ballots?

[HopeFor2006]

5. More than likely

Especially if Franken moves ahead. No way Coleman will give up his seat without a fight.

[scarletwoman]

6. Minnesotan here. Actually those numbers mean close to nothing. What it's going to come down to

are the challenged ballots which are all going into their own pile at each recount site. THOSE ballots will then have to examined by the 5 member canvassing board, and THEY will have to decide which ballots to accept or reject.

There could end up being hundreds or even a thousand or more of these challenged ballots. It's going to be horrible. There will howls and wails and lawsuits. If Franken comes out ahead in the canvassing board count, you can bet the Republicans will be screaming for our DFL Secretary of State's head.

And all evidence so far points to the Franken team as not being willing to go away quietly, either.

It would be nice if by some miracle the numbers from the recounted ballots show a margin of victory larger than the eventual total number of challenged ballots, so that the challenged ballots wouldn't be able to change the outcome no matter what. But I doubt that will happen. :(

sw

edited for clarity (I hope)

[hlthe2b]

8. what a mess... I'm sure there are plenty to blame, but hey...

I choose to direct all my antagonism toward LIEBERMAN.... Work for you? LOL

[scarletwoman]

9. I blame Dick Cheney. I've always believed that he was behind Paul Wellstone's plane crash.

But Lieberman will do in a pinch, I suppose.

sw

[hlthe2b]

10. Oh, heavens... Wellstone... that opens up a dam, for sure...

and yes, everything does date back to that horrendous episode... Cheney is actually my default for all evil, but it wouldn't seriously suprise me to find he WAS behind the Wellstone crash.

You know, I never lived in Minnesota, but I bought a green Wellstone button to wear as a reminder of the "fight that continues." I wore it November 4, 2008. Paul was with us.

[scarletwoman]

14. That's so sweet -- you wearing that button. Thanks for that.

I must admit, I'm really bitter about this senate election all the way around. Coleman should have never have gotten Wellstone's seat in the first place, and the way it happened -- the right wingers absolutely BLASTING the incredibaly beautiful Wellstone Memorial (I was there) and totally distorting the whole thing -- was the most hurtful thing I've ever experienced.

Even on DU (no surprise, unfortunately), there were scores of people tut-tutting about it, totally buying into the despicable right wing framing and revisionism.

Furthermore -- and this makes me no friends on this board -- I NEVER wanted Franken to be the DFL candidate. I felt like he just blew into town, announced that he wanted to get that seat, and that was that.

And yes, I know all about how he was born and raised in St. Louis Park, blah blah, blah. But the fact is, he left all that behind decades ago, and has been a New Yorker for most of his adult life. But he breezes on in with a bunch of show biz money backing him, and good home-grown progressives with deep roots in the DFL just got pushed out of the way.

I never believed Franken would be able to win this election. Sure, the urban liberals loved him -- but I live in a rural area. No one but the diehard DFL party loyalists in these parts was going to be convinced that Franken should be their senator. The good, loyal DFL party loyalists in the area of course did their best to sell him. But come on -- you think some old farmer is going to be convinced that some Hollywood-funded former comedian from New York is a better choice than re-electing an incumbant?

And the TV ad war was UGLY! It was almost enough to make ME want to vote for the third party candidate! I actually had to pause for a moment in the voting booth to pull myself back to reality and mark the ballot for Franken, recognizing that it was the only realistic chance of getting rid of Coleman.

I'm waaaaay bitter about this whole thing.

sw

[Peace Patriot]

19. I'm so with you, Scarletwoman, on everything that's happened since Paul Wellstone's

plane crash. I listened to the funeral on the radio. It felt, to me, like when JFK and RFK were assassinated. I was just becoming politically active again, during that period, and I had just 'discovered' Paul Wellstone, weeks before he died. He seemed like a REAL Democrat--so honest and smart, and on our side--the side of we, the people. I was particularly struck by his vow to lead the fight against the invasion of Iraq in the Senate. I thought, "Oh, wow! We have a champion!" I was planning to send him an early donation for a presidential campaign.

Bang-bang, shoot-shoot.

Once again, our champion falls. I read the book "An American Death" (the title?), and I'm still wondering how those FBI agents got to the scene so fast, and why there was never an official public investigation (standard procedure for a U.S. Senator). Those were dark days, indeed--just like 1964, and the (post-JFK assassination) rush to war on Vietnam, and 1968, with about one million dead, and RFK--and, not unimportantly, MLK--taking up the banner of peace.

Bang-bang, shoot-shoot. Both of them, within three months of each other. And another million died before it was over.

Paul Wellstone's death felt just like that did. I've never believed that the state that elected Paul Wellstone elected Norman Coleman over Walter Mondale (former VP who ran against Coleman in Wellstone's place). It made no sense. I also remember the struggles here with DUers buying into the rightwing garbage about the funeral--the corpo/fascist narrative for what I believe was a stolen election. (Rove brand.)

And I feel the same as you do about Al Franken. One of my beefs with him is that, on his radio show, he shut down any talk of vote suppression, 'TRADE SECRET' code voting and stolen elections, just after 2004, when investigation of that election was SO IMPORTANT. He could have helped so much, and he bought the Terry McAuliffe-party line of suppressing investigation--and all talk about it--on top of the Bushwhacks suppressing and stealing votes.

It is certainly ironical that Al Franken finds himself in such a tough battle over the counting of every vote! I hope he learns something from it, win or lose. OF COURSE I hope he wins. Coleman is disgusting. But what was probably needed was a "Paul Wellstone Democrat" to just blow Coleman out of the water. Franken is putting up a mighty fight, though. I admire him for that--whatever our disagreements on policy. And God knows I want Coleman to be defeated.

I know you got on me the other day for spouting off about stolen elections, without knowing much about MN's election system improvements. You have one of the best systems in the nation, given 'TRADE SECRET' code optiscan counting (of the initial count). I learned this from you. Thank you for informing me!

If Franken loses, and Coleman stays in the Senate, I think Coleman will simply implode--from a combo of hypocrisy and corruption--like Ted Stevens in AK, 'Duke' Cunningham in CA, Tom Delay in TX, Bob Ney in OH, and the Republican Party as a whole. They are a fraudulent party, which conducts fraudulent elections with phony, pre-written narratives, and they have just about destroyed everything that this progressive country has created over the years--our Constitution, responsible, accountable government, our nation's commitment to human rights, our government agencies, our infrastructure, our education system, our scientific progress, our labor protections, our "commons"--libraries, parks, emergency services--our military and now our very economy and solvency. Coleman, as a major toady to this Destruction Machine, has to go--one way or the other, now, or driven from office by investigation before his term is up. Six years of Coleman is not tolerable. And it is especially intolerable when we think of what could have been.

[scarletwoman]

23. My sincere thanks, Peace Patriot. I feel kind of bad about how hard I was on you

in that other thread. I was feeling really frustrated about how misinformed so many people seemed to be about how voting works in Minnesota. My humble thanks for your graciousness.

As I mentioned, I feel exceedingly bitter about this senate election. I was born and raised in Minnesota, but was living in Alaska in 1990 when Wellstone first got elected, and in Wisconsin when he won re-election. So I had just gotten to meet him for the first time in 2002, about two weeks before his plane went down.

At that time, I was a total DFL party activist, working my way up the local party heirarchy to the state level (by 2004 I was a delegate to the state convention, and would have been a delegate to the national convention but had to decline due to a family situation).

Anyway, when I met Wellstone, I came prepared with a big sheaf of printouts about how the bush* administration was lying about Iraq, and another sheaf about the dangers of electronic voting, which was one of my pet issues back then.

I got a couple of minutes to talk to him, gave him a quick summary of my concerns, and asked him if he'd be willing to look over the material I'd printed out. He shook my hand and said he'd be pleased to read it, and thanked me for going to the trouble. I thanked HIM for voting against the IWR, and wished him well with all my heart.

And then he was dead... And the right wing, which had been ill-wishing him all through the campaign -- literally saying they wanted him to die -- shit all over the incredibly beautiful and moving memorial that we had for him.

I actually got interviewed by Anderson Cooper on the night that the DFL had its emergency meeting and nominated Vice President Mondale to take up the campaign for that Senate seat -- but my bit was never aired. I suppose I was too radical, I mostly roundly condemned how the right wing had distorted and outright lied about what happened at the Wellstone Memorial, and did my best to defend poor Rick Kahn. What I had to say didn't fit the MSM narrative at ALL.

I was 14 when JFK was murdered. I grew up in a blue-collar lifelong Democrat union household. I've been a lefty my entire life -- each murder, each loss, has left a scar.

If Franken ultimately loses this election, it will simply be because fewer people voted for him than for Coleman.

However, as you point out, karma could catch up with Coleman anyway. There's still that investigation going on out there about the shady financial stuff.

I'm sure Franken would actually do a credible job as a Senator -- if it turns out he actually gets in, I will definitely be happy about it.

Peace :hug:,
sw

[hlthe2b]

20. Interesting... I met a couple visiting from Minnesota this morning

while walking our dogs. They said much the same thing and that essentially they wanted neither candidate....I can understand the feelings about Franken, but I still absolutely hope he wins. I do believe he was deeply affected by his (apparently signficant) relationship with Wellstone and his famly. That bodes well for how he might approach the Senate if he prevails, I think... We shall see.. I fear the DC establishment did not rally around Franken, either, given his outsider status. That didn't bode well for the election and might not bode well if he prevails.

Things got nasty here in CO with the Shaffer-Udall race and the Musgrave-Markey races--not to mention the nasty McCain battleground ads... But since I watch little tv and stick with NPR and AAR on XM radio-- I tuned out to most of it.

[scarletwoman]

25. Thanks. That's pretty far out that you just met some other Minnesotans.

My beefs about Franken have always been about him as a candidate, not about whether he'd be a decent Senator or not. I'd be delighted if he ended up winning that seat, and I believe he'd do an honorable job. He'd certainly be a vast improvement over Coleman, no matter what.

sw

[GoesTo11]

4. Franken's best chance is if his challenges are more legit than Coleman's.

Otherwise, it doesn't look like anyone's gaining votes just because they're in friendly counties.

[wellstone dem]

7. Look at the number of republican challenges in St. Louis

county. That's the explanation there.

That said, most challenges by Franken and Coleman will be overruled. So if you take the vote difference and add the 6 more challenges by Franken than by Coleman, we are about 150 votes short, I don't think it looks good.

[elocs]

11. There is only one outcome that is acceptable to many here: that Franken wins.

They will never accept a Coleman victory because they will say the election was stolen. A plot wrapped in a conspiracy wrapped in tinfoil. Sometimes reality is exactly what it appears to be.

[Two Americas]

13. what would be wrong with that?

The Republicans have been engaged in a massive program of suppressing votes all over the country. That renders almost all results suspect.

What difference does it make to you whether people here "accept a Coleman victory" or not?

[scarletwoman]

15. Dear friend, allow me to answer that, being as how I'm a Minnesotan.

We have probably the cleanest election system in the whole damn country. We have same-day registration. We have all paper ballots. And even though some ballots are tallied by optical scanner in the biggest precincts, the totals from the scanning machines are downloaded at the precinct level only, there is no central tabulator.

Same-day registration means that it's damn hard to pull off any sort of voter suppression crap. Also, it's state law that anyone who wants to challenge someone's right to vote has to be Minnesota resident, a registered voter, and has to have personal knowledge of some reason why the challengee should not be allowed to vote.

Also by law, they are not allowed to approach the prospective voter, they must bring their objection to an election judge and sign a sworn written statement under penalty of law that what they are alleging is the truth.

Additionally, we do not register by party affiliation in Minnesota -- there's no way to know which voters are Dem or Repug just from the registration rolls.

Additionally additionally, state law ALSO mandates an automatic hand recount on election night in random precincts, each and every election, totalling 20% of the votes cast statewide, to make sure that the machines are recording votes correctly. My own state representative, with whom I've had many an intense political conversation, was the one who got that particular provision passed in 2002.

There is absolutely no good reason for the results of this recount to NOT be accepted. The fact is, Franken was a crappy candidate. I'd be happy, of course, if he ended up winning, but I'm not going to question the legitimacy of our election if he doesn't. And it will piss me off no end if non-Minnesota DUers do.

sw

Edited to close html tag

[Two Americas]

17. heh

Busted. :)

Yes, I know that Minnesota does an exceptionally good job of running elections, and just about everything else.

Still, I wouldn't mock people who are suspicious of any election results after what the Republicans have done around the country the last few years.

I certainly did not mean to cast asparagus on any of my beloved friends who happen to be Gophers.

[scarletwoman]

18. Yeah, busted!

:spank:

Anyway, I won't "mock" them, I'll just give them the same facts I just gave you.

If they still want to persist in promoting paranoid conspiracy theories that fly in the face of the facts, THEN I'll mock them. And berate them. And tell them to STFU.

Sorry, I've already gotten pretty incensed over some of the ignorant woo-woo I've seen posted on DU about the MN senate election. We have the highest percentage of voter participation the whole country in election after election. Our turnout this year was 77.8%. Voters are NOT being suppressed!

My precinct had 143 voters this election. 107 voted for Obama, 35 for McCain, and 1 for the Socialist candidate(!) whose name I can't recall (wasn't me who voted for him, I swear!). The reason my tiny rural precinct had such a high turnout for Obama is because my precinct includes part of an Ojibwe reservation -- and they pretty reliably vote Democratic in election after election. No one is suppressing their vote!

I've seen NO stories in local news sources about voter suppression. Which is why I really WILL object if people start pushing conspiracy theories to explain a Franken loss.

If the recount confirms that he lost, then he LOST, pure and simple. As I said before, he was a crappy candidate, and that will be the ONLY reason why he didn't win.

sw

[Two Americas]

22. ok, ok already

You convinced me. I am moving there now. I will see you in a couple of weeks.

Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party

Ongoing Platform

The Ongoing Platform is the declaration of basic principles adopted by the State Convention for which the party stands. It represents the views and needs of the people who align themselves with the party.

Agriculture

The family farm is the keystone of our society and must be preserved.

We Support:

* Preservation and protection of farmland through soil conservation and sound sustainable ecological practices.
* The economic well-being of rural communities through the preservation of small business and family farms and fair prices for agricultural products.
* Access to farm credit at reasonable terms and interest rates, including temporary relief during economic emergencies.
* Educational research and development programs, including sustainable agriculture.
* Cooperative and marketing systems structured for the financial security of producers and improvement of products.
* Use of agricultural surpluses to alleviate hunger in the United States and all other nations.

Business and Community Development

We believe American business, properly encouraged and regulated, can bring economic prosperity to all, but if it does not, we believe government should take appropriate actions to bring about that prosperity.

We Support:

* Reasonable regulations that encourage fair competition, ensure safety, environmental and labor standards, and prevent price discrimination.
* Community reinvestment to promote local business and home ownership.
* Small business development, especially ownership by members of economically disadvantaged groups.
* Regulation of interstate businesses, especially banks, to prevent adverse effects on locally owned businesses and banks.
* Economic investment in troubled regions or industries.
* Responsible use of economic development funds.
* Businesses that build, employ, and invest in the United States.
* Affordable housing for all Minnesotans, including assistance to local governments that promote mixed-income housing opportunities.

Civil, Human, and Constitutional Rights

We recognize that when the rights of any citizen are threatened, the rights of all are endangered. We therefore pledge to preserve our constitutional and civil rights.

We Support:

* Separation of church and state and the right to privacy.
* Only voluntary enlistment in the armed services.

We Oppose:

* Discrimination against any person on the basis of race, creed, religion, immigration status, sex, sexual or affectional orientation, HIV status, marital or homemaker status, disability or age.
* Government interference in all matters related to the control of one’s own body, including protection of the rights of women to bear children, practice birth control and obtain safe and legal abortions, and the rights of patients and their families, guardians, and physicians to honor a decision not to extend life by artificial means.
* Barriers to participation in society.

Consumer Issues

We believe consumers have a right to safe and reasonably priced products, fair treatment in the marketplace, and complete and accurate information about products and services.

We Support:

* Fully funded consumer education and public enforcement to protect consumers from fraudulent practices.
* Equally available and affordable goods and services that meet consumer needs such as public utilities, transportation, consumer credit, insurance, telecommunications access and housing.
* Food quality and labeling standards that protect the public from unsafe food products and deceptive labeling.
* Licensing of health care professionals and counselors and establishment of health care data collection systems to inform the public about costs and quality of health care.
* Requiring housing inspection when government-backed mortgage loans are involved, with liability for failure to notice defects.

Education

We believe a vigorous and universally available system of public education is basic to a productive, democratic society.

We Support:

* A strong system of public education at all levels, with stable funding and equal educational opportunities.
* Academic freedom, student and faculty rights, and church-state separation in public school curriculum and educational funding.
* Moderate class sizes and a safe, suitable environment for both students and teachers.
* A broad curriculum of liberal arts, technology, and social issues.
* High standards for teachers and compensation that reflects the responsibilities society places on them.
* Effective services in the areas of health, counseling, careers, and nutrition.
* Publicly accessible, high quality libraries and information systems.
* High quality, well-funded post-secondary education, affordable for everyone.
* Continuing education and adult literacy programs.

Energy

We believe in safe, sustainable and secure energy sources that offer coming generations access to fuels and power.

We Support:

* Increased use of renewable energy sources.
* Aggressive energy conservation in transportation, commercial, industrial, residential and governmental sectors.
* Decreasing dependence on nuclear power.

Government Accountability to the Public

We pledge to ensure the political rights of all citizens through fair elections and responsible government.

We Support:

* Campaign finance reform, including:
a. Fair public financing of presidential and congressional elections.
b. A ban on gifts from lobbyists to elected officials.
c. Disclosure of financial political campaign support.
* Enforcement of standards of ethical conduct and accountability for elected officials.
* Ensuring public availability of government information.
* Policies that enforce honest conduct by government officials and contractors who provide services to government agencies.
* Adequate government funding for research and development in areas of humanitarian and scientific significance.
* Government agency actions that ensure citizen safety and fair treatment.
* Providing veterans and military personnel with the appreciation, respect, and benefits deserved because of honorable service to our country.
* Efforts to locate and bring home service personnel who are prisoners of war or missing in action.
* Native American tribes’ rights to self-government and the generation of revenue to serve their people.


We Oppose:

* Unnecessary government regulations.
* Using government agencies for political purposes.
* Laws and policies that restrict government employees’ right to participate in the political process.

Health and Human Services

We believe that all people should have the opportunity to be self-sufficient, secure and healthy. Cost-effective and adequately funded programs can help ensure these basic needs.

We Support:

* Nationally funded, community –based comprehensive and affordable health care for all.
* Services to children to ensure their healthy start in life.
* Adequate provision for the needs of physically, mentally or emotionally challenged persons, including in-home and institutional care services.
* Institutional and outpatient mental health programs and services that provide equal access, continuity of care, and protection of patient rights.
* Private and public funding for health care programs that include pregnancy care, family planning and abortions, regardless of age or income.
* Expedited funding for AIDS and HIV research, and care for the afflicted.
* Programs to assist displaced persons, including refugees, displaced homemakers, and the homeless.

Labor and Employment

We promote the American labor movement and the rights of all workers.

We Support:

* The right of workers to organize and bargain collectively.
* Comparable wage standards and pay equity.
* A minimum wage that keeps pace with inflation and provides full time workers with an income above the poverty level.
* Adequate compensation for injured workers.
* Programs to promote full employment.
* Hiring Minnesotans for jobs created when state/local tax incentives are involved in development projects.


We Oppose:

* The permanent replacement of striking workers.
* Sexual harassment in the workplace.

National Security and International Policy

We recognize the intertwined relationship between national security and international policy. We believe in a foreign policy that strives for international cooperation, supports human rights, and respects international justice. Such a policy will have the effect of restoring American leadership in world affairs and thereby greatly enhancing the security of our borders as well as the safety of our citizens at home and abroad

We Support:

* Free elections and democracy.
* Foreign aid that helps people achieve economic self-sufficiency.
* Fair trade policies based on mutual understanding of each country’s problems and culture.
* The protection and promotion of women’s rights, including comprehensive, adequately funded international family planning programs. Countries receiving foreign aid must be required to protect and promote women’s rights.
* United Nations mediation of international conflicts and global reduction in armed forces and nuclear and conventional weapons.
* Israel’s right to exist within secure borders, Palestinian rights to self-determination, and continued peace efforts in the Middle East.
* Marine life conservation and prohibition of drift netting.
* International cooperation to protect the global environment in areas such as preventing acid rain, preserving the rainforests, preserving the ozone layer, and preventing global warming.


We Oppose:

* Terrorism, and dictatorial and exploitative international policies.
* All forms of United States exploitation in foreign countries, and any attempts to dictate their political systems.

Natural Resources and the Environment

We believe in leaving the world in better condition than we found it.

We Support:

* Preservation of biodiversity and wilderness.
* Strong environmental programs with provisions for strong enforcement that provide for healthy surroundings for all citizens and for sustainable, long term use of natural resources and a strong role for government in environmental protection.
* Living and working conditions free from significant exposure to poisons and radioactivity in air, water and soil.
* Responsibility of individuals, businesses and government to notify others of possible environmental hazards, to clean up those they have created, and to compensate others for any resulting damages.
* Industry incentives, public education and collection programs to reduce consumption of resources and production of hazardous waste.


We Oppose:

* Disposal of hazardous wastes below ground.
* Nuclear power, as it is not a viable energy source.

Public Safety and Crime Prevention

We advocate strong law enforcement policies combined with vigorous crime prevention programs that emphasize education, treatment and rehabilitation.

We Support:

* Protection of victims of crime through the mandatory arrest of domestic abusers and mandatory sentences for convicted rapists, as well as government-funded programs to house, treat, counsel and educate victims of abuse, rape or other violence.
* Protection of children exposed to abuse or violence, with stiff penalties for child abusers.
* Reasonable firearm policies that promote public safety and crime prevention without infringing on the rights of hunters and other sports enthusiasts.
* Enforcement of traffic safety laws, particularly against chemically impaired drivers.
* Mandatory sentencing of drug dealers.
* Abolition of capital punishment, and freedom from unreasonable searches, seizures and surveillance contrary to our constitutional rights.

Retirement Security

We believe all Americans have a right to a secure retirement.

We Support:

* The independent status of Social Security, with funds invested and used solely for payment of benefits.
* Full funding of Medicare and Medicaid.
* Full funding and protection of retirement programs.

Tax and Budget Policy

We believe government budgets must be based on sound fiscal policies and fair taxation aimed at achieving economic growth, conservation of resources and full employment.

We Support:

* Balancing the federal budget and reducing the National debt.
* A progressive tax structure with minimal reliance on sales and excise taxes.
* Taxing all income producing property owned by tax-exempt organizations, at the same rate as other income producing property.
* Establishing a lower tax base for industry in rural areas of Minnesota as an aid to the economic well-being of those areas.
* Taxing agricultural lands on the basis of production value rather than market value.
* Providing tax incentives for equity investment in small businesses.
* Reducing the military budget and using the savings to fund social, scientific and environmental programs and research and development.
* Exempting senior citizens from paying property taxes if their income does not exceed 125% of the poverty level and they live in single-family homes.
* Denying tax exemptions for schools that practice or advocate racial segregation.

Transportation

We believe that in order to prosper, all residents and businesses must have access to efficient and affordable transportation.

We Support:

* Multi-modal, environmentally sensitive solutions that use natural resources efficiently.
* Well-designed and maintained roads and bridges throughout the state.
* Increased investment in Minnesota’s transportation and infrastructure, on a regional and statewide basis, including public transportation, mass transit, commuter rail corridor, light rail, buses, pedestrians and bicycles.

Veterans Affairs

We honor and respect the men and women who have served and are serving our country. We must advocate for their physical and emotional well-being, both abroad and at home, as well as their economic security. We must ensure that our military is the best-trained, equipped, and supported force in the world and that the men and women of our military are ready to meet the new threats of the 21st century. Their sacrifices and those of their families must never be forgotten.

We Support:

* Providing veteran's benefits to members of the state militia (National Guard and Air National Guard) and military reserves deployed in active federal service equal to those provided to members of the active military as defined by Article 10.
* Providing timely and sufficient funding to appropriate government agencies to honor all our obligations to active duty military and military veterans.
* Providing veterans and military personnel with appreciation, respect, and benefits merited through honorable service to our country.
* Efforts to locate and bring home service personnel who are prisoners of war or missing in action.
* Only voluntary enlistment in the armed service.

[scarletwoman]

24. Do you know why we have such a kick-ass party platform? CAUCUSES!!!!

I get SO pissed off when people dis our caucus system. Because of the caucus system, people like ME get to have DIRECT input on our party platform.

Anyway, it would certainly be to Minnesota's benefit if you DID move here. If I thought you were serious, I'd run out and buy a new hide-a-bed so I could put you up until you found your own place. Hope you like dogs. :)

:hug:
sw

[Two Americas]

26. caucuses, yes

I agree.

Minnesota is a model that Democrats should be studying and copying everywhere.

[elocs]

27. Because by Franken's own admission Minnesota has honest and fair elections.

I understand it is hard to comprehend, but in some places people honestly prefer the Republican candidate to the Democrat fair and square. Democrats begin to look like the football receiver who cries for a flag every time he misses a pass because how could he actually miss a pass. He begins to look like a crybaby in indiscriminately complaining that every pass he misses should draw a flag even if it was a close play.

An election win for a Republican, even a close one, does not necessarily mean a stolen election. In MN, once the recount process is completed, then that should be it. There was also all matter of hue and cry here at DU that the presidential election would be stolen too.

As far as the "what difference does it make", what difference does it make to you what things I choose to comment upon? What difference does anything make to anyone unless they express an interest or concern? Someone could question you on every post you make as to what difference does it make to you. This is a message board and people make comments and post their own opinions upon a variety of issues. You really should try and grasp that concept.

[Two Americas]

28. I understand now

Thank you for the explanation.

[MNDemNY]

12. Remember, disputed votes are NOT included in that total.

[EconomicLiberal]

21. The Coleman campaign is challenging a ton of ballots in Ramsey and Hennepin Counties.

Which are Franken dominated counties. Which means that Coleman is taking votes out of Franken's column and adding them to the challenged ballots column.

Do not fear. Most of these challenges are frivolous and these will be Franken votes when the canvassing board gets together.