HELP! Does anybody know anything about estate law?

[renie408]

I am at a friend's house whose live in boyfriend died on Monday in a race car crash. She has been living with him for about ten months. He and three friends all built condos next to each other and also own jointly two other duplex units that they rent out. The boyfriend died intestate and his mother is his nearest living relative. The friends have assured my friend that they are going to handle getting hold of the house, etc, and that she can live here as long as she likes. As soon as the funeral was over, the mother started making noises about coming to look through the house and how it might be better if my friend went back home.

Tonight one of the father's of the guys who were in on the condos with the dead boyfriend said that he was already in touch with a lawyer and that they would handle everything. I always thought that if you died intestate, your stuff went to your nearest living relative, in this case his mother. If the mother gets icky, what recourse do these guys have? And while I think it is sweet and all for them to say they can keep this house for my friend, how realistic is that? If the mother decides she wants her share, aren't they going to have to buy her out?

[sandnsea]

1. Depends on the business contract

If they were business partners, their partnership probably has the details of what would happen in the event of death. Sometimes the share of the partnership goes to a relative, sometimes it goes back to the partnership. Maybe that's what they know. I think your friend needs to ask that specific question.

And real lawyers will be along shortly, I imagine. I was just a legal secretary.

Sorry about your friend. :hug:

[renie408]

3. They were all acting like the mother getting icky would be really BAD.

Right now, my friend is in such awful shape that she can't think of anything. I want her to be able to stay in the house as long as she needs to for healing. I don't know the other people involved well and they are also devestated by this guy's loss, so I don't really want to be bugging them about all this stuff. I am just trying to get an idea of what could be coming down the road.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. It's going to depend on the laws of the state where the person died.

And the legal advice you get on an Internet message board is worth exactly what you paid for it. In any event -- it is generally true that if you die intestate your stuff goes to your closest relative, but you need to find out whether the condo was owned in joint tenancy, because in that case the ownership interest of the person who died generally passes to the surviving joint tenants. The other owners' lawyer should be able to clear that up.

[renie408]

6. I am not asking for legal advice or snide comments. I am asking for general information.

I am sorry I asked, I am pretty wiped out after over 48 hours with four hours of sleep. I am just trying to figure out what kind of shit my friend could be in for.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Wasn't intending to be snide -- just that general info isn't very useful in legal matters

since all situations are different and depend on the laws of the jurisdiction. Anything anyone tells you here may or may not be useful or accurate. I was just trying to make the point that only a lawyer who knows the specific laws and facts can provide a useful answer.

[renie408]

13. Sorry, we are all worn out. She is out in the back bedroom after I practically

stuffed a Xanax down her throat and me and another friend were sitting here listening to her parents saying "Oh, the boys are going to take care of everything. They are going to see a lawyer on Monday and it is all going to be just fine." Well, so far as I can tell the boys loved and trusted each other and I am not sure they bothered to put anything into a legally binding contract. I could be wrong because to NOT have as many assets as are involved not covered by a contract just seems stupid to me and these don't seem like stupid guys. But I do know that they started talking to the mother the day they pulled the plug on this guy to sign over his share of things to them. Okay, I just answered my own question. If they had anything that left everything to them, they wouldn't have been bugging the mother to sign things over on the day her oldest child got taken off life support. Which, BTW, isn't the most tactful way to begin legal negotiations if you ask me.

[Goblinmonger]

4. She needs to get her own lawyer

NOW. Period. That is the only way her interests are going to be protected. It's sweet that these guys are looking out for her, but she needs to make sure that someone who knows the laws of the state and can look at the contracts, et al is working exclusively for her.

I'm not a lawyer but married to one, and if the wife were awake right now (she does estate law), she would say what I just said. (Not to be taken as legal advice from a real attorney).

[SoCalDem]

7. Agree 100%

death has a way of bringing out the worst in some people, will or no will..but especially with NO will..

sadly, 10 months is NOT 10 years, and without a binding legal contract, it's hard to know how well she will be protected, but it's still worth getting a lawyer..

[Goblinmonger]

12. My faith in humanity

is decreased everytime my wife talks anonymously about some of the bullshit people do in order to get mommy's money.

[SoCalDem]

14. My brother and I have not spoken in almost 10 years

because I was named executor of out father's will, and I had the audacity to hire a lawyer (it was a probate state)..All of the "kids" lived in other states, and my ftaher had given no one power of attorney.. My brother showed up with a U-Haul, and expected to just take what he wanted.. I told him NO..and insisted on doing things legally..like getting appraisals and filing legal papers & stuff..

Everything was audited down to the penny, but he still felt as if I somehow cheated him.. See our dad was a flashy spender, so my brother thought he was loaded.. What he had not considered was that our dad lived a frugal life, and was spending every penny he had to atone for the fact that he had been a shitty father, so he handed out cash to the other three siblings...making them think he was loaded..

He died with only about $20K in the bank, no real estate, and enough insurance to cover final expenses & pay the bills he still owed.. but my brother was just sure that I somehow got more than my share, because the will dictated that I be paid "normal expenses" for the two weeks I had to stay in Florida to wrap things up.. Every expense was "receipted"..and I even had HIM choose the lawyer, but he still was an ass.....so I just cut him out of my life..

Life's too short for irrational relatives..

[sandnsea]

17. I guess you did what you thought you had to

you know your family and I certainly don't.

But just to play devil's advocate for a minute, in the spirit of maybe getting you and your brother back together...

Me and my family did everything possible to NOT hire a lawyer. We just divided all the personal stuff. Dad's money was in an account with my sister and brother's name on it, so they divided that. Not every family runs to a lawyer. Like I said, maybe you had reason to believe it needed to be done. But I would have been pissed if my sister had done that first thing, without even considering a means of getting it done without paying lawyers bunches of money. Most states, you don't even have to do probate if there's no significant property or outstanding bills. So I get your brother's point, unless of course, there is other reason to not trust your family that I don't need to know about. Just sayin'. I hate to see families not speaking. :(

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

18. We had no choice.. it was in the will.and no one had power of attorney

:(

[cemaphonic]

20. Stories like that just make me sad.

My MIL just concluded a nearly 3 year legal battle with her cousins over the will of one of her relatives. That got pretty ugly, and I doubt they will be talking with each other anytime soon.

I think the biggest argument my brother and I will have over our parents' estate is who will get my dad's Gurkha knife.

[renie408]

15. No shit. I have seen close knit families go after each other's throats

for a lot less than this guy had.

I cannot help but wonder what the FUCK they were all thinking. I guess they are just young and thought they would live forever.

[here_is_to_hope]

22. Thas why its 'GrovelBot' and not

'GrovelSkinner'...jes' trying to keep that faith.

[renie408]

8. It's in Maryland and the laws I looked up said that if someone dies intestate

the portion of their estate not covered in a will goes in this order: surviving spouse, surviving descendents, parents. Live in girlfriend or close college buddies aren't mentioned anywhere.

I don't think she has any legal standing in the house or business. They were together less than a year. And I am not looking for legal advice, they are all headed to a lawyer on Monday. I am just trying to get a head's up for what could be coming towards my already extremely fragile friend. I also think it is sweet that they are looking out for her, but I want to be prepared if they are maybe being overly optimistic. The impression I get is that they don't have anything in writing for anything. Which just shocks the shit out of me.

[Goblinmonger]

11. This is not legal advice

but she's fucked in my opinion. Which sucks. People need to get everything in writing. And now. Because you never know what will happen.

[Divernan]

16. Why bother? She has absolutely no legal standing to take action.

I repeat, NO LEGAL STANDING. (I am a recently retired attorney/law professor, who deals with these questions for friends and relatives a lot.) There is no will and she is not party to any contracts or titles. The intestacy laws vary from state to state, but not much. Blood relatives take all inheritance; live-in significant others take zip. What happens to the real estate depends entirely on the manner in which the property was titled. Google "joint tenancy" and "tenancy in common".

If the deceased had sole title to the condo which he co-habited with your friend, that condo is now the property of whichever relatives survived him, as determined by state law. Absent spouse or children, the property will go to his parents. If the parents were both dead, it would go to his siblings. If he had no siblings, this is where the state laws can vary a lot, but property would go to grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, in varying proportions.

If the deceased had title with his friends to the condo in which he & your friend lived, and it was tenancy in common, that means he would have owned a specific share or percentage of the property. If 4 guys owned it, each would have 25%. When one dies, the others still own their 25 percent each, but the deceased's 25% goes to his heirs, i.e, his surviving close relatives, since he died without a will. IF the guy's title to his own condo was in joint tenancy, upon his death, the other joint tenants take his share and it doesn't go through his estate.
In the former case, his mother has sole title and can do whatever she wants with the unit.
In the latter case, your friend is depending on their good will to let her stay, and they can tell her to leave at any time.

This story is a good lesson for all of you out there. Everyone, no matter how healthy or young, should have a will. The deceased, since he evidently had a substantial investment in real estate, should definitely have executed a will. I hope his Mother will actually inherit something - because at some point she is going to be old and frail, and without a son to care for her.

You can go on line and download standard forms for wills according to the state in which you live, which will comply with your state's law.
On edit: just read what you wrote about the "boys" pressuring the deceased's mother to "sign over" her interest. What a bunch of jerks! Reminds me of Alberto Gonzalez trying to get John Ashcroft to sign an order approving domestic spying while Ashcroft was in excurciating pain in a hospital. Or Newt Gingrich trying to get his wife to sign divorce papers as she was coming out of anesthesia after a cancer operation.

[Warpy]

5. You'd need to know the nature of the agreement

If the guys had joint tenancy with right of survivorship, then it goes to them. If not, then they're in business with his mother.

Tell your friend to start making plans to leave, like making a list of everything she brought with her, what was bought jointly, and any gifts she got, plus making sure any joint bank account is cleaned out.

It sounds like Momma wants everything she can get, and I'm afraid your friend doesn't have a legal leg to stand on unless she wants to try a palimony suit against the estate. That will take a long time and the only beneficiary will be the lawyers.

The other guys will have to get used to having Momma as a partner.

[lakemonster11]

10. If your friend lives in Washington State,

she may have quasi-community property rights as an unmarried domestic partner (although this might not be worth much if they were only together for ten months). If not, it's all going to depend on their business relationship, as the previous poster said.

If the boyfriend's condo belonged only to him, it most likely will go to his parents by intestacy law, and the mother can kick her out if she wants, although there are usually state laws about evicting tenants that can make it hard.

If it belonged jointly to him and his friends, then the friends still own part of it and should be able to let her stay there without the mother's permission. She just wouldn't be allowed to prevent the mother from using the property, too. If they "ousted" the mother by changing the locks or something, then they might have to pay her 1/3 of the rental rate.

Just a law student, but that's my quick take on it.

[Cleita]

19. Depends on which state she's in. State laws varies.

You could contact the attorney general's office of your state. They sometimes are willing to give you information about the law. If there is a common law statute, the state may consider them married and she would then have the same rights as a spouse.

[Lex]

21. Usually if someone dies intestate, all their property goes to the nearest relative

which in this case, sounds like the mother.

The friends can offer to buy the son's part of the condo from the mother during the estate administration since she probably doesn't want it.