Crazy times demand crazy thinking. Now, about GM...

[Jackpine Radical]

Let them go bankrupt. Put together a group of small-time venture capitalists willing to each throw in a few bucks, add some government startup $$, set up to produce the Volt the all-electric car Chevy had planned to build. Get something out on the road quickly to start producing cash flow. A worker-owned company, with everyone sharing in the profits, everyone with a vested interest in making the company succeed...that kind of idea sure works for me.

The notion of the small-time venture capitalists started me thinking--how about a venture financing co-op? That s, a group of people who are willing to do statup financing for promising collectivist enterprises?

[ContinentalOp]

1. Or maybe instead of the Volt they could actually come up with a decent design.

:shrug:

[KakistocracyHater]

2. ANY working electric vehicle

that's why I thought (wrongly) that Arnie-he got the Humvee made for civilians-would have the foresight to rapidly produce Tesla Motors & others like
resurrecting the EV1 in California. He failed me & should be thrown out.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. I just mentioned the Volt because I assumed they could get it into production

quicker than staarting something from scratch. It could be followed by a better-designed product, but they need to get some cash flow going as soon as possible.

[Joe Fields]

3. I'm all for GM employees buying the company.

[spag68]

4. GM

And so another person weighs in. 3 to 25 million jobs here just go away. This is your response to a crisis that involves some of the last of the good paying jobs in the
US. Lowering the standard of living for all of us so that the corporations can make more money from the back of labor. Silly me, I thought this was a progressive site. You obviously spend too much time listening to the anti union and anti labor talking heads like Larry Kudlow. Tell me, after we get rid of all those workers , who is going to pay for the unemployment they will be getting? After that how will they and their family's get food for their kids? UAW worked for 100 years to get a living wage and health care for these workers, now you want to throw them under the bus! Are we all supposed to work for 10$ an hour? If you expect to live in a country that has all the things we have, you should educate yourself on the fight of labor to improve the life of ordinary workers, before you go ripping the life out of the country, to side with wealthy investor class.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. What i'm trying to propose is a means of saving the jobs.

The workers would be the shareholders; workers would select their management. I'm proposing a co-operative of collectivist system to replace the traditional capitalist mechanism, with financing coming from something like a credit union--but one whose participants are willing to take risks, presumably in return for relatively high interest. That is, the venture financiers would not be buying into ownership of the cooperative, just loaning money, so the ownership would remain with the workers.

My proposal actually grows out of a sort of modified labor theory of value--I trust that if you're planning to lump me with Kudlow and other anti-unionists you are familiar with that term and where it comes from.

[Nederland]

22. Where do you come up with 3-25 million jobs?

The entire auto industry, including parts, distribution and dealerships doesn't employ 25 million people.

[leftofthedial]

5. I'm all for it.

for the bailout money they want, you could start half a dozen new green car manufacturers.

At a minimum, it will be necessary to eliminate ALL the execs of ALL the major car companies. They are pathetically inept--*criminally* inept. They need to be retrained to clean toilets in prisons or hospitals or something useful.

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Allowing GM and the other American automakers to fail (EDITED) ...

... may be just the "disaster opportunity" the GOP are hoping for.

What the GOP "captains of industry" want to do is destroy unions.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4449375&mesg_id=4449375

[Jackpine Radical]

18. So we need to snatch this opportunity out of their jaws.

A whole lot of disasters are about to happen in the world economy, and we had best get good at preventing the "Shock Doctrine" players from doing their thing.

[ColbertWatcher]

27. Agreed. We all owe Naomi Klein a hugh debt of gratitude for that book. n/t

[JDPriestly]

7. Right, let GM employees take over the company.

I think that is an excellent solution.

[Farmall]

8. Let GM find their own way out of their mess..........

It sounds harsh, but the best lessons are those learned the hard way.

I'm not saying that GM should go away, because they won't-look at the many airlines, airplane mfgr's, construction co's, and other industry leaders who have fallen upon hard times, entered bankruptcy and restructuring, cut the fat, streamlined their operations, and re-emerged, leaner, meaner and more cost effective.

GM needs to feel the hurt of their own mistakes, and it sucks, but some employees are going to feel the hurt of working for a bunch of fools and their mistakes. Life's not fair, but is it fair that I, with my tax dollars, reward the mistakes of GM?

GM will survive, but they may not be the GM we know now today.

A good example of this is the International Harvester corporation-at one time, they made not only tractors, but semi's, PU's, refrigerators, milking machines, appliances, you name, they had their hands into it. Well, they got so big, they couldn't pay attention to everything, all the time, and it came back to bite them on the butt. After some painful downsizing, some mergers (IH and Case merged to become CASE-IH), acquisitions, liquidations of stuff that wasn't their core industry (nor their strength) they're back on top of the ag market once again doing what they have always done best-make tractors and implements.

GM can do it too-it's going to hurt, it's going to be painful, but the dumber the mistakes, the more it hurts to correct them.

[me b zola]

9. Pssst...

What do you think that 3 million people out of work on one day would do to the economy? What about the local economy where these jobs are located?

Oh, and we have been down-sized nealy to death as it is. Time to push the fat cats over-board and let the people who create the wealth run the show.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. "let the people who create the wealth run the show--"

That is exactly what I was trying to propose, although at least half the people responding to this thread don't seem to have gleaned that idea from what I wrote. Apparently I was unsufficiently clear.

[DainBramaged]

11. Right, let 3,000,000 more people be put out of work permanently

there aren't enough McDonalds to support them all at poverty level wages.

By the way, what do you do for a living??? Retail, Internet,accountant, mom's basement, just what do you do that gives you the opportunity to destroy the lives of millions of people?

[Jackpine Radical]

13. I'm sorry I so badly failed to communicate just what I'm trying to propose.

[DainBramaged]

16. I do that to, very often, don't feel bad.

:hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

20. Does the idea still seem so bad to you after getting some clarity

on what I was trying to say?

[DainBramaged]

24. Yeah

:hug:

[Farmall]

31. I do alot of things......

Which are all self-employed-I have a working farm (not to be confused with a hobby farm) and also own a small trucking company, both of which I started from the ground up with nothing. In the last year, I have dealt with fuel costs doubling, insurance increases, the cost of seed, fuel and fertilizer rising, along with rising cost of employee bennies.

But did I get some help from the Feds in the form of a handout? NO. Why not? Because the goobermint has no place interfering in the private sector-every time they do, they screw things up. One needs look no further than Amtrak for proof of that.

GM won't die, and all the jobs aren't going to go away. Yes, some are going to go away, but that is going to be coupled with the streamlining of their product line. It's harsh, it's going to suck for some folks who are cut, but if the whole is going to survive, they need to evolve into a leaner, meaner company that has less overhead, provides a better product, and sells that product at a profit.

[DainBramaged]

35. So you are a fan of privatization huh?

[Farmall]

38. IDK what you're trying to infer.........

But I firmly believe that independant business's are just that, and not socialistic ticks riding upon the government's back. Anyone heard of Amtrak? How they doing these days? A perfect example of why goobermint isn't qualified to run a business.

Sometimes, those business's make mistakes in judgement, and they suffer the consequences of those mistakes, be they BK, reorganization, a trimming of the "dead wood" or they cease to exist.

I hate to break the news to you, but any way you cut it, there will be jobs that no longer exist at GM, from the ground up-there's too many bodies pulling checks for the amount of profitable product being produced. It's basic accounting, plain and simple.

[BornBlue]

14. I think you are on to something

I work for an employee owned company, a rather large one, and I think this just may be the best way to proceed. Put the power back into the hands of the people who do the labor. I am willing to bet they have better ideas to get the company back on track because they are in the trenches day in and day out, unlike the execs who have no idea what it is like to live pay check to pay check.

To all who jumped down the OP's throat, they do not want the company to disappear, bankruptcy is traditionally a re-organization not an elimination.

[DainBramaged]

15. In the case of GM, what happens to the other businesses downstream who are waiting to be paid for

the products they produced for GM, go out of business too?


It amazes me how out of the blue (no pun intended) so many 'concerned' DU members come out of the woodwork to suggest ways to save the company, when all they should have done was spent the last three years buying GM products instead of Japanese, German or Korean vehicles, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You all are clueless.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Bankruptcies happen every day in business. The results are bad

for innocent people.

I'm assuming that the bankruptcy is going to happen anyway, and want to see lemonade made out of the lemon. My proposal for doing this is to convert GM into an employee-owned company. Workers would get a fair wage, they would have a vested interest in doing things right, and they would have control of the products they make. People on the line know best how to do their own jobs and generally have very good ideas about how to run the company as a whole. If employees are in charge of selecting the company officials and setting their compensation rates, I think things would work better than the present capitalist system.

[BornBlue]

23. Judging by your avatar you are possibly in danger of losing your job,

and I am very sorry about that. And yes I will admit, I bought a foreign car that gets about 30 miles to the gallon. See we American's have the choice of buying American boats that traditionally do not get the best mileage, or buying foreign cars that are environmentally safer, and with gas prices where they have been, I think I made the right choice.

The big 3 dropped the ball, and now their mistakes are coming back to bite them. Instead of producing Hummers and Escalade's and god knows what else they should have been investing in smaller more fuel efficient cars like most other manufacturers. Why should we buy American cars when the American car manufacturers do not care about our values when it comes to fuel efficiency and alternate sources of energy?

I am not for anyone going out of business, but as a whole, the auto-industry needs to re-tool. They need to put more effort into producing cars that are safer, last longer and are more fuel efficient, and less into DVD players, GPS, and a whole slew of options that take away from what a car is really meant to do, get you from point A to point B quickly and safely.

[DainBramaged]

25. Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about

And I won't be losing my job. Our biggest boats, the Impalas and Buick version, get 29MPG real world highway ad 24 MPG real world combined. And if you had looked you could have bought a 36 MPG Cobalt for under $12,000 to get you from point A to B.

Do yourself a favor, go look at the model lineups of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan and their high-end divisions, and tell me they don't make a PROPENSITY of low mileage BIG trucks and SUVs. THAT is the reason Toyota's profit predictions are going to be DOWN by over 70% this year to a net profit of only $5 billion US, because everyone stopped buying their giant pieces of gas guzzling crap too.


Get a loan, buy a clue.

[Farmall]

32. Here's an Idea-

IF GM were building a quality car that the people want instead of spewing out cheap, chintzy disposable products and focusing so hard on trucks and SUV's, maybe more people would have bought them.

This coming from a 3-GM-Vehicle household. Looking at their offerings and the castration and destruction of everything that made the Saturn line what it was, I can't say that GM has much to offer me in their current lineup besides a truck.

[DainBramaged]

34. (sigh) The great American clueless, god loves them

[KakistocracyHater]

39. the parts are tooled in China NOW

you don't see it, they are correct get rid of CEOs & let the AUTOWORKERS OWN the GM PLANT!! see it now? Preferrably as smoothe a transition as possible.

[Romulox]

21. Why are so many "progressives" offended by the thought of blue collar jobs being saved???

Yesterday, Paulson et al. announced they were forwarding $149 billion to General Electric.

Not a peep on GD.

The day before, it was announced that American Express was allowed to become a "bank holding company" so that they could receive almost $7 billionfrom the bailout fund. They also announced they would use the money to acquire competitors.

Crickets.

By by golly, any aid that goes to working class people is beyond the pale? :wtf:

[DainBramaged]

26. Because they aren't Progressives, they are neuve-riche regressive

[Jackpine Radical]

28. I don't understand the calumny here. What is regressive about a worker-owned company?

Or about proposing a mechanism whereby the workers would end up profiting from their own labor instead of the parasitic capitalists?

I don't get it, I don't see what I said that would classify me as "nueve riche."

[DainBramaged]

29. Not you specifically

DU ignores (as a rule) the plight of labor and Unions. As Progressive as people here appear to be, all you have to do is look at the viewing statistics of the Labor forum. There are THREE of us, Omaha Steve, Ohiochick, and myself who toil there trying desperately to get the attention of members, but we just don't

We haven't given up though. What we do benefits ALL of DU.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. I'm a retired AFSCME member.

I still want to know what's wrong with the idea of the workers owning the companies they work for. My models are, for example, producer co-ops.

[Lance_Boyle]

42. How does that model support multimillion-dollar executive pay packages?

'Cuz everybody knows we can't have a car company without those. Right?

Whatever happens to GM, the people at the helm now need to be booted to the curb without even a handshake, much less a severance package, or, say, this year's salary. But that won't happen. The $25 billion they'll get next week? Half of that goes directly into management's pockets. So they can buy another fucking Bentley, and pay a former factory worker to drive it for them.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[flvegan]

36. ##SO DU CAN BUY A CHEVY!##

[DainBramaged]

37. Thanks bud!

:hug:

[Mike 03]

40. I definitely agree with the first part of your post. Having worked in the venture capital

business, I only have one question: Which venture capitalists would ever touch GM. And that is a serious question.

[Mike 03]

41. I'm rec'd this post anyway, because innovation has never been more welcome, and it's

great to see a post by someone who is thinking outside the box.

ON EDIT: Sorry, the post is too old to rec, but it deserves to be.

[lib2DaBone]

43. Let the Employees buy the company.. they will turn it around!

Remember when Home Depot first opened up? It was an "employee owned" company. Employees were happy, service was top notch, customers were happy and sales were up.

Then came the Republican Bean-Counter Fascists. Home Depot went from one of the best places to work.. to one of the most despised hell-hole workplaces in in America. (typical Republican leadership)

Please shop at your local mom and pop hardware stores. Patronize your local feed store.

We must fight Reaganism and Republican Fascism every day in every way! No more cheap Chinese merchandise.