Who's blaming African Americans for the passing of Prop 8??

[ellius101]

Why are so many people saying that gays are blaming African Americans for the passing of Prop 8? Gays are not blaming African Americans for the passing of
prop 8… Everyone knows that bottom line it’s the churches that did this!

Many are simply surprised at the large number of African Americans that supported prop 8 are wondering why such a large percentage voted to take away their civil rights, particularly considering the history of abuse that African-Americans have endured in this country. Gays have been fighting for the civil rights of African Americans for years and are wondering why "the favor" wasn’t reversed.

Imagine if a gay President had been elected with the help of African Americans and on that same ballot African Americans were told they couldn’t marry anymore. And from the exit polls it became known that 70 percent of gays had voted to take away their rights? I think African Americans would be pissed off too... and rightfully so.
Or if it were Jews that helped elected a Gay president and on the same ballot had their rights stripped away. Or Catholics. Or any group that had their rights taken away.

Gays are pissed off right now. They feel betrayed. Understandably so.
Quit trying to palm their anger off as racism.

[crappyjazz]

1. Pssst

Sit down and shut up

[ellius101]

7. excuse me????

[crappyjazz]

9. Should have put the "sarcasm" thingy on, sorry

[EFerrari]

44. Pantload. There have been many threads here in support.

If you're choices are shut up or blaming 7% of CA voters, you need to develop other choices.

[stray cat]

2. There are alot of inflammatory individual statements that fail to represent more than themselves.

[glowing]

3. This is a ruling that needs to head to the Supreme Court.. It has to be decided

much like the civil rights issues were decided. We live in a Democratic Republic... If it was truly democratic, majority would rule and that could lead to the end... We have laws and branches of govt to check and balance the power, and also to help establish a more perfect union... Sometimes this does mean going agains majority rule.

[truedelphi]

48. Ah ah at last another DU'er who understands the concept of a Republic

We are not simply a nation that relies on rule by majority of voters, but rule of law.

And the most important statement in that rule of law begins with the words "All men are created equal"

That phrase has since been expanded to include women. And why gays are not included - well, no fairly minded Supreme COurt can undercut the human beingness of a gay person.


I am not particularly worried about the fact that Conservatives sit on board the Supreme Court in terms of this. They have ruled more favorably than the Democratic counterparts in terms of the rights of lower income home owners vs eminent domain. And more fairly on the medical marijuana issue as well.

[cloudythescribbler]

4. Two points. First, it wasn't "the churches" but apparently the MORMON Church & Mormons, which ...

poses problems of avoiding both the substance and exploitable-as-at-least-appearance of bigotry in the countermovement. For example, apparently at this point only a few days after the vote, one of many, consider the following website:

http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com

The problem is that the fact is that the Mormon Church (for which many are aptly seeking to have their 501 (3)c status -- requiring that they not devote a 'substantial' proportion of their resources to 'lobbying' and politics -- revoked) furnished multiple millions to the campaign. I read that $19 million of the total 'yes on prop 8' funding came from Mormons, fully 4/5 of the total.

My own view is that, Mormons or no, only those individuals and institutions specifically linked to the Yes on Prop 8 campaign should be targeted, and not "Mormons" generally or, for that matter, the whole STATE of Utah.

[ellius101]

6. agree

To put it in better perspective, it was more the fundementalist "churches".

[frogcycle]

15. The Mormans are pissed off at anti-polygamy laws

And they have a point.

[begin_within]

23. The Catholic church put in a great deal of effort too.

I take my Mom to mass every Sunday because she's 90 and couldn't get there otherwise. Every week for the last 4 or 5 weeks before the election they inserted expensive color flyers pushing Prop 8 (and Prop 4, for that matter, but the main focus was on Prop 8) and members of the church donated money to the Yes on 8 campaign. The auxiliary bishop of San Diego, Salvatore Fullabaloney - excuse me - Cordilione, went on TV news interviews about it, right on the grounds of the historic Mission Bullshitica - excuse me - Basilica San Diego de Alcoholics - excuse me - Alcalá, giving calm but passioned arguments in favor of Prop 8. The Catholic church expended a great deal of effort on it, if not as much money as the Mormons. So I blame them too.

[cloudythescribbler]

26. Good point -- perhaps saying "the Mormon and the Catholic church" spearheaded prop 8 efforts is ...

a better way to put it. "Churches" sounds too generic and actually lets those specific two churches off the hook. I suspect that the combined efforts of ALL the other churches combined was easily outweighed by any number of secular forces.

I am in MA and haven't lived in CA since 91, so it's hard to gauge from here what was going on precisely

[EFerrari]

45. Also the Knights of Columbus and Dominionists.

It's the righwing extremist Mafia. And here we are, tearing each other down. We're doing their work for them.

[Kurovski]

50. Go to the source. I'm going to get a hold of Mormon genealogy lists and gay marry them posthumously.

That'll learn 'em.

[QC]

5. Shhhh!!! You're not supposed to talk about this!!! n/t

[jonnyblitz]

8. THANK YOU. I am so sick of the ASSHOLES on here

completely MISREPRESENTING what is going on. trying to make sense of an alarming poll result is NOT BLAMING A WHOLE COMMUNITY.

[chimpymustgo]

10. Oh shit. Not ANOTHER thread EXPLAINING why you're blaming black people (8% of the goddam vote).

[ellius101]

11. maybe you should read what I wrote!

[chimpymustgo]

18. I DID read your explanation of your anger at blacks. And I'm calling BULLSHIT.

Fight this in the courts where it belongs. Don't fight black people. Racism is still so goddam prevalent (and people don't even see it, or refuse to).

[ellius101]

40. Who says its not going to the courts?

and yes, racism is prevalent, but so is homophobia. You can call bullshit at the way gay people feel all you want, thats your perogative, or you can listen. Again, no one is blaming black people. The number show if 100 percent of blacks voted "no" it still would have passed. Just trying to understand why so many voted for it. Get the difference???

[NashVegas]

51. Once Again, Expressing Upset and Blaming Are Different Things

Blame is a logical construct.

Anger is an emotion, one that pretty much everyone has a right to, as long as they're willing to own it.

[W_HAMILTON]

21. It lost by 4.8%

Let's do some math:

(1) I'll assume your number is correct, that blacks made up 8% of the vote.
(2) Prop-8 right now lost by 4.8%.
(3) From everything I've read, blacks voted 70-30 in favor of Prop-8.

70% of 8% of the vote = 5.6%. If that 5.6% voted against Prop-8, it wouldn't have passed.

Let's say 60% of the "yes" crowd switched their vote, and voted no. 60% of 8% = 4.8%, which means it would have been a toss-up as to which side won.

Better yet, let's assume that blacks voted against Prop-8 in the same levels that they supported Obama. Prop-8 would have been defeated.

So, yes, I can see why people would be upset about the African American vote. In a vote decided by less than 5%, 8% of the vote makes a difference.

As for why blacks are being blamed, it should be obvious. It's like, who would you be more disappointed in? Someone that is racist and doesn't want equal rights, voting to deny rights to gay people ... or someone who "believes in equal rights" and talking about what a historic moment it was in our nation's history by electing Obama, voting to deny rights to gay people?

One is too ignorant to know better, and the other should know better. Both are in the wrong, but only one of them is hypocritical.

[cloudythescribbler]

28. Let's do the math (which is how the whole race/racism/election impact thing SHOULD be addressed ...

Let's suppose that we compare the result of the differences in reported rates (of which reports I am skeptical) of voting on prop 8.

80%-20% split in favor among 8% of the 'goddam' vote leaves a 4.8% net + for prop 8 out of the total of 100% of the vote. That was about the margin of victory overall. (Are you sure that THIS year it was only 8% or is that GENERALLY true in CA?)

What I don't understand is that if whites (63% of the total electorate -- don't know if that is this year or in general) went an alleged 75% against prop 8,that would leave a margin of about 30+% in support of NO on prop 8. Then "asian" voters supposedly largely opposed prop 8 and latinos were said to be 50/50.

Plainly, these numbers which I have seen claimed for the election don't come anywhere CLOSE to adding up, and would yield a net victory margin of over 20% for the NO on prop 8 campaign, rather than a defeat of the NO campaign, by about 4+%.

Before you "call out" the black or any "community", it's important to get the actual figures straight, which so far I haven't seen.

Does anyone have a link for accurate figures that actually add up right?

[HamdenRice]

12. "Blacks are now my enemy" and "Let's vote on slavery" threads

apparently you did not see these to be asking this question?

These should not be construed as "blaming" African Americans? Oh really?

[ellius101]

13. guess I didnt

nevertheless they're the minority. theres assholes everywhere. Majority of gays are asking questions. Not blaming.

[crappyjazz]

16. We're being scapegoated as racists

because a few make stupid statements.

[jonnyblitz]

17. god forbid we point out they may have homophobes in their

midst like every other group or community does.

[HamdenRice]

19. Problem with your sentence structure there

If someone says Blacks are my enemy or let's vote on slavery, that person isn't being scapegoated as racist; that person is being accurately described as racist.

And if that kind of rhetoric is coming from your community, and you don't call it out, but instead defend it or dismiss it as you seem to be doing, then you aren't being scapegoated as racist; you are being accurately described as racist.

[crappyjazz]

22. Now I'm defending it?

Jesus H. Christ ... this is getting more unbelievable by the minute

[NashVegas]

52. I Call Bullshit

I think you're construing them in the way you want to.

[LWolf]

14. I'm blaming

the people who allow themselves to be corrupted by propaganda from corrupt organized religion, myself.

And the people who have not yet evolved enough to leave hate and fear behind them, regardless of the current target for their hate and fear.

Why?

[xchrom]

20. what we have to understand is that people who voted for obama - voted yes on 8. nt

[Starry Messenger]

24. And then what? n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

27. And we proceed to educate our Party

on the meaning of discrimination laws. We attempt to point out the long game being played by the Romeney wing of the GOP and show them that by voting with those bigots, they are helping lay the groundwork for Romeny's run in 2012. That is what this is. This is the start of the next cycle, disguised as a 'gay' issue, which works because so many dismiss anything gay associated as existing in a vacuum, it is never seen as indicative of the larger picture, so it serves as great stealth entrance into the discourse.
People need to learn that they themselves have a stake in equality, and that supporting discrimination is a decision that will impact their hearts and minds as much as it will impact the lives of others. They need to stop falling for the Okie Doke, and face the facts that discrimination is always wrong, and that any legal discrimination against anyone is a threat to the hard won and barely held equality of everyone. Those that voted that the State holds sway over the personal lives of GLBT people need to understand that such votes in a larger sense give power to the State over all personal lives. To vote that way is to vote away your own sovereignty at home, in your own marriage. Because an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
But any Democrat who feels comfy that a good chunk of our voters went along with Romeny on a major issue is not thinking far enough in advance.
This is about Democrats, and Republicans, about right and wrong, and it is also about 2012, make no mistake about it.

[leftinportland]

25. I can't believe some of the ugliness I've read here lately

From a multi-year lurker and recent registered member:

This wholesale blame of the black community on the passage of Prop 8 in California is wrong. I've read some really ugly and hateful things on this subject - this is really fucked up. Since when did the black communities have so much political clout that they and they alone should be to blame.

From SOS office..a county by county map of the election results:

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm

Just role your cursor over the county for the election results - you'll see where hate and stupidity prevails and it's not the African-American communities.

"Blaming Black Voters for Prop 8 Loss is Wrong and Destructive"

http://site.pfaw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issues_equality_prop_8_memo

[W_HAMILTON]

30. As I pointed out in my other post...

They may have only made up 8% of the vote, but Prop-8 was passed by less than 5%.

If 100% of African Americans voted against Prop-8, or even just the same amount that voted for Obama, Prop-8 would have failed. Period.

So, tell me again why they should not be blamed?

I can guarantee you that if the shoe was on the other foot, gay people would be like a curse word around here. Can you imagine if Obama lost by a margin so slim that it could have been directly attributed to gay people, who chose not to vote for him because of his stance on marriage equality?

In that situation, would you be blaming the racist bumpkins for not supporting Obama, or the gay people who should have known better?

[leftinportland]

42. Your argument is silly

Obama did not even get 100% of the African American vote! Did you bother looking at the county election return map from the SOS of California? Do you know anything about California demographics? The only county with a large AA pop. where prop 8 lost is LA county and it only lost by 1% or 25,884 votes. Your blame is misdirected.

[W_HAMILTON]

53. No, it is not.

I didn't say that 100% would have voted against Prop-8, I am using that as an example to show that, yes, they did have an effect. It doesn't matter their size of the vote, if the vote was close enough that their small size would have had the effect of altering the result if they had voted differently.

As I said, if black people voted against Prop-8 in the same numbers as they voted for Obama -- knowing the current numbers -- it would not have passed, period.

Now, if different numbers come out (such as blacks being a smaller percentage of the vote, or more blacks voting "no" on Prop-8), that would change matters. But considering the numbers that have come out, yes, they did directly affect the passage of Prop-8.

[Raineyb]

46. That's not even reasonable

I doubt any other ethnic group voted against Prop 8 in the same numbers that they voted for Obama. Why would you expect the same from black people? That's just asinine.

Regards

[W_HAMILTON]

54. And the racist bumpkins...

...weren't exactly out there cheering and championing the moment, either.

Their stupidity and ignorance is expected.

If you don't see the hypocrisy in people pointing out a crowning moment in the struggle for equal rights, all the while voting to restrict someone else's rights, well, that is equally asinine.

I would think that someone who has faced the struggle of being oppressed and having their rights taken from them, wouldn't need to be educated in a similar fashion to a bigoted, racist bumpkin who has hated his entire life...but I guess I'm wrong.

Using your logic, I guess it means that some black people are just as bad as the ignorant forces of intolerance they were joyous to beat out on Tuesday night. So, instead of blaming them, I should just be deeply disappointed and saddened by them.

But guess what? I have those feelings, too.

[Raineyb]

56. It's not even reasonable to assume that every black person voted for Obama

You must really think that all black people think alike.

Regards

[W_HAMILTON]

58. Who assumed that?

I didn't. I was saying that if every black person THAT VOTED FOR OBAMA also voted for equal rights by denying Prop-8, then it wouldn't have passed.

Not every black person did vote for Obama, just about 95%+ of them.

[Raineyb]

73. Like I said assine assumption

White people didn't vote against Prop 8 in the numbers they voted for Obama but you expect black people to have done the same.

That would be the asinine assumption I spoke of.

Regards

[TexasObserver]

64. By your rationale, every group is responsible, so why label blacks as responsible?

Your math work proves only that you're intent on blaming 6% of the voters for a resolution that got 52% of the vote.

Let's subtract the 6% of the voters who were black who voted for the measure, and we'll see it was the 46% of the remaining 92% who passed the measure.

WHITE people overwhelmingly provided the bulk of the votes needed for passage.

[ismnotwasm]

29. There are more than a few people around who are

Nation wide is my understanding. It's a disgusting state of affairs. Here's a good one from Huff from a black author;



"Excuse me? I voted against Proposition 8. I'm among the 30 percent of black Californians that did so. And as much as I can condemn the homophobia and intolerance that drove a portion of the 70 percent of blacks that voted in favor of Proposition 8's ban on gay marriage, it's an outrage to lay its passage at their feet. I've read several editorials already about how the ungrateful blacks betrayed gays right after America gave them their first president. I know there are some wounds and frayed nerves right now, but this type of condescending, divide and conquer isn't going to help at all. And it's a gross oversimplification of what happened."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/stop-blaming-californias_b_142018.html

[bluedawg12]

32. Is that like "thank you and f*ck you very much"

"And as much as I can condemn the homophobia and intolerance that drove a portion of the 70 percent of blacks that voted in favor of Proposition 8's ban on gay marriage, it's an outrage to lay its passage at their feet."

And as much as I can condemn the homophobia and intolerance that drove a portion of the 70 percent of blacks that voted in favor of Proposition 8's ban on gay marriage

True.

it's an outrage to lay its passage at their feet

False.

The outrage is against the "homophobia and intolerance" as the OP said, of 70% of people we had imagined to be part of the coalition.

The gay vote was only 4% nation wide, we are a small minority, no one is claiming that 4% of voters won the election, yet, they get the credit for voting what they preached.

It's not that 70% of the AA vote won the day for the RW, the question is why would 70% of AA Dem's vote with the RW?

[ismnotwasm]

34. No

Read a little more carefully. He was pointing out other racial statistics, that aren't being touted in the media the way the black vote is.

Bottom line? Straight white non thinkers are to blame. I assume you're white --with inherent white privilege. Whites don't have to think about what color they are, and how their color affects voting.

I feel strongly that the homophobia that drives denying marriage to Gays is part of a deep rooted societal sickness. Like racism or sexism, it's a sick, societal cancer and we need to work together for 'the cure'---for basic human rights and justice.

What's happening here in this issue is the development of a "Us against them" mentality. It's divisive and frightening and will defeat us.

Blacks aren't responsible, hatred and ignorance is, and those things have no color.

[xchrom]

35. anti-gay bigotry is not like any of the others you mentioned.

because as we now know -- if you were a person of colour who voted yes on 8 -- you voted with hard core racists and other sundry right wingers.

there is a kind of hand holding across all spectrums when it comes to anti-gay bigotry.

[QC]

38. Yep, nothing unites old enemies like shared hatreds.

It's almost heartwarming, isn't it?

[bluedawg12]

36. Read this.

It is a civil rights issue and that's about all that's left to say.

Violence against gays.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4410916
.........

Blame? Responsibility? People now, on day 4 of this, need to look into their hearts.

[bluedawg12]

31. Gays supported Obama overwhelmingly

Obama asked for and got support from the GLBT community.

We may make up a small voting block by percentage, but we donated money and worked and spread the word.

We supported Obama in the primaries over his opponents.

Then we went out and lived what we preached and voted for now President Elect Obama.

On the same day we went to vote for Obama nation wide, our imagined coalition failed to support a hate bill, that was viciously misrepresented by RW churches who played on people fears.

We have been told to go out and “educate” the public. Really?

What education did the RW ever do fairly about gay issues? They played on gay baiting fears, they played to people’s latent/overt homophobia and all we asked of our “coalition” was when they went in the voting booth to push one little button. That’s all.

The Proposition did not call for a law to pass a “new” right, it called for a law to take away an existing right.

The GLBT community stood up to it’s end of the bargain, not all members of our progressive coalition saw our issue as being a matter worthy of their support. All they had to do was say “No.”

........
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2008/10-17/news/national/13443.cfm
Obama seeks gay help in battleground states
Democrat is competitive in unlikely places
......

http://www.windycitytimes.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=19735


Data available thus far on voting in heavily gay precincts suggest the gay vote for Obama was at an unprecedented high. In the last several presidential elections, the percentage of LGB voters supporting the Democrat has hovered around 70 to 75 percent. But Election Day voting was much stronger:

—In heavily gay Provincetown, Mass., 87 percent of voters supported Obama, compared to only 11 percent for McCain, and 2 percent for others or no votes. Massachusetts overall voted 62 percent for Obama, and 36 percent for McCain.

—While 61 percent of Californians supported Obama over 37 percent for McCain, 85 percent of heavily gay San Francisco supported Obama—versus 13 percent for McCain and two percent for others.

—Fifty-five percent of voters in Pennsylvania supported Obama over 45 percent for McCain, but in Philadelphia's heavily gay 2nd and 5th wards, 83 percent of voters supported Obama.

—In heavily gay Dupont Circle ( Precinct 15 ) in Washington, D.C., Obama won 89 percent of the vote.

—In the heavily gay precinct 1233 in Dallas, 63 percent of voters supported Obama, while 57 percent of the entire city did so. Fifty-five percent of the state supported McCain.

—Chicago's heavily gay 44th Ward went 86 percent for Obama over 13 percent for McCain.

A Harris poll online survey conducted Oct. 20-27 with 231 self-identified LGBT “likely voters” predicted 81 percent of LGBT voters favored Obama while 16 percent favored McCain. A similar poll in August had shown 68 percent favored Obama, with 10 percent leaning toward McCain.

Patrick Sammon—president of Log Cabin Republicans, a national gay Republican group—said he puts more trust in data from the overall exit poll data nationally, which said once again that 4 percent of voters were GLB and that 70 percent voted for Obama and 27 percent for McCain, with 3 percent for others.

“LGBT voters don't live in just Dupont Circle and Chelsea,” said Sammon in a telephone interview Nov. 5.

But U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., said both sets of data may be right. The results from precincts that are heavily gay, she said, reflect a demographic that has significant access to information about each candidate's stand on LGBT issues, while the national exit poll is capturing LGB voters in places that may not have that kind of information at the ready. And in those places, she said, LGBT people are “making their minds up on a larger array of issues.”
........

[cliffordu]

33. I blame the people who didn't work hard enough to stop it.

Because they never thought it could happen in California.


THIS HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA FOR FUCKS SAKE.

There should have been a war chest of 20 million dollars to defeat this piece of shit bill two days after it was filed.

The mormon parasite behind it should have been outed everywhere.

But no.....Now it's easier to just blame the haters at large for voting for it.

Requires less effort.

You can bet your ass the ground game will be a little different when the court overturns this abomination and those maggots re-file that piece of shit hate legislation.

If the court overturns it.


**This was my response to a different thread. Works here just fine, though.**

[bluedawg12]

37. Many were working for Obama and donating to there!

And bringing out the vote for him.

[ellacott]

47. Calif. residents didn't have to do a lot of work for Obama

He had that state wrapped up. I've heard many reports that the outreach in the AA community was negligible.

It's long been known that a majority in the AA community are against gay marriage. It's not seen as a civil rights issue but a religious issue. I'm not saying this is right but it's just the fact. The only way it's going to be overcome is to address this as a religious issue. There are quite a few churches in Calif that are accepting of all people. I was quite surprised that little outreach was done in these churches.

[Beam Me Up]

49. "Because they never thought it could happen in California."

That, to me, is exactly right. Living in the SF Bay Area, for example, is like living inside a particular social bubble. It never occurred to me that so many who voted for Obama would also vote for prop 8. I have a lot of straight friends and I don't know anyone who voted for 8. (I also wonder how many were confused and voted 'yes' when what they really meant was 'no'.) It looks like the gay community, yours truly included, were overly complacent about this issue. We didn't want to believe that it would pass. I also think there is something to be said for the lack of out-reach and coalition building. Despite the election, I still find it difficult to believe that a majority of California citizens oppose same gender marriage.

[xchrom]

55. 1 in 4 voters in san francisco voted yes on 8. nt

[Beam Me Up]

57. Yes and there are still over 100,000 SF votes not yet counted

The Examiner reported yesterday there were about 130,000 uncounted votes in SF:

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Influx_of_early_voters_throws_Elections_Department_for_a_loop.html

State wide there are over 2,000,000 yet to be counted votes (PDF)

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/c-status08/total_unprocessed_ballots08.pdf:

[xchrom]

59. san franciscans voted fairly conservatively this year on a number of issues. nt

[Skittles]

39. I don't think it's so much a blame thing

as it is a hurt thing in that many folk cannot understand why historically repressed people would support any kind of bigotry

[Corkey Mineola]

41. Blame is a waste of time.. Reflection and examination is what is needed

All rhetoric aside, I think this sort of "twin towers" experience for gay folks and our allies really evokes the strongest reactions.
Once the reactive dust settles, wouldn't it be great if some faith communities, black or white, held forums asking "are we homophobic?"
Maybe that's what gay folks in CA need to do next... reach out and offer some support to folks that want to look at this question and, if they find that they harbor homophobes, how to change the climate.
Sounds Utopian...

[EFerrari]

43. DU has a search function. And while the upset is understandable and even shared

the racism is not.

[Nikki Stone1]

60. We feel betrayed and angry. We have a right to that without being called racists.

Homophobia needs to be addressed in many communities.

[IndianaJones]

61. minorities that voted for this are disgusting bigots. nt.

[Raineyb]

62. But the white people who did are okay?

Do you hear what you sound like?

Regards

[IndianaJones]

63. As a minority I expect it of white people. best regards. nt.

[AZBlue]

65. Tell that to the DU'ers posting dozens of threads blaming African Americans.

[TexasObserver]

66. If you'll put the perps on Ignore, those threads disappear ASAP

I'm not going to read posters who attempt to blame blacks for the passage of the resolution. People who can't discuss the issue without attacking the smallest demographic don't deserve to be read.

[AZBlue]

67. I think I may have to do just that.

As I posted in one of those insulting threads, homophobia can not be erased through racism.
Ignore is my new friend!

[TexasObserver]

68. EVERYONE who voted for the resolution is the problem. All 52%.

The ugly truth is some posters here are racist, and this is just an excuse for attacking the black community. Some folks love to blame demographics, instead of holding responsible each person who votes for the measure.

It is understandable that many gays are upset that a number of those who voted for Obama in California also voted for the resolution. It is troubling that those voters would not vote for gay rights. But dragging the black community out of the car for a Rodney King beating is hardly the appropriate response.

Who is behind the resolution? Who got it proposed? Who passed it? Who funded the effort? Who put all those commercials on television? WHITE people, that's who. White Mormons and white Catholics, primarily.

Hold the churches responsible, all of them that didn't oppose the measure.

[AZBlue]

69. I wish I could recommend a post within a thread!

Everything you said is spot on!
:thumbsup:

[GeneralCobra]

70. ADMIT THE TRUTH!

ADMIT THE FUCKING TRUTH!

What pisses ME off are people that are dancing all around the truth here.

NEW CNN EXIT POLL SHOWS

70% Black voters voted YES
90% Black males voted YES

All other races were about 50/50.

You figure it out.
Doesn't make you racist to use common sense.

[funkybug]

71. I thought we were supposed to be looking beyond this kind of thing

Didn't we learn anything from this election?

It wasn't a skin color that determined the future of Prop 8.
It was an ideology.

Sheesh.

No sarcasm intended. Seriously.

[bluedawg12]

72. To the extent that ANY Dems votes yes to P8

they are to be held accountable.

It is no secret that the white, conservative religious RW has worked to unite churches of all hues and ethnic origins to form a super coalition against gays.

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Daughter+of+Martin+Luther+King+Marches+in+anti+gay+marriage+rally&fr=slv8-tyc7&u=www.nd.edu/%7Edcampbe4/SAMESEX.pdf&w=daughter+daughters+martin+luther+king+marches+anti+gay+marriage+marriages+rally&d=DfdWf0LURvL6&icp=1&.intl=us

Religious Coalitions For and Against Gay Marriage: The Culture War Rages On David E. Campbell University of Notre Dame Carin Larson Georgetown UniversityNote: To be published in The Politics of Same-Sex Marriage, eds. Craig Rimmerman and Clyde Wilcox, University of Chicago Press.