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Who Counts the Votes?

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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:14 PM
Original message
Who Counts the Votes?
Most concerns about voting irregularities--whether on touchscreens, optical scan machines, or hand-written paper--boil down to this very simple question:

Who counts the votes?

Many people worry about the touchscreen machines flipping votes internally, and it is a legitimate concern. But is it any different than hand-written paper ballots that are carried away from the polling place and counted in secrecy by partisan officials? It's just as easy to fudge those numbers, maybe even easier. It's just a matter of where the deception occurs and whether it's automated or not.

People sometimes talk about paper ballots and voter verifiable receipts as if they're a panacea. They are not. Those paper trails will never be utilized unless the discrepancies between exit polls and final counts are way outside the margin of error, and maybe not even then. We saw huge discrepancies in 2004, but little was done to address them. Now they're proactively making up excuses (The Bradley Effect) in advance. And if the election is close, they can steal it without going outside the margin of error. No cause for alarm, no recount. Don't let paper trails instill a false sense of security. They'll only be utilized after the hurdle of getting a recount to happen.

No matter how you slice it, many elections throughout the country are being run by partisan election officials with agendas that may not be in line with the will of the people.

There is only one solution: Complete transparency in the counting of the votes.

How do you work this? Simple. You start with hand-written ballots and transparent ballot boxes. When the polls open, it can be easily confirmed that the ballot boxes are empty. When the polls close, all ballots are counted in the polling place. The ballots do not leave the polling place until all counts are final. All citizens are welcome to observe and even record the counting process. They begin with presidential, announce the final count, re-stack the ballots and count the down-ticket races one by one.

The following day, each precinct's count (along with various district subtotals and state totals) is printed in the newspaper, published on the internet, and made available on request from the election commission or secretary of state. If there are discrepancies in the values reported, witnesses to the count will discover them and appropriate actions can be taken.

Will it take too long to hand count the ballots? Maybe, but maybe not. It would be easy to speed the process by simply creating more smaller precincts. If each polling place only has to deal with a few hundred ballots, the counting should be quick and efficient. And even if it takes a bit longer, the additional time is a worthy sacrifice in the name of putting the counting in the hands of the people instead of potentially corrupt election officials.

And besides, it works fine in Canada. If Canada can do it, so can we.
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. There are quite a few other things that work fine in Canada that we should implement
Edited on Tue Oct-28-08 04:23 PM by demo dutch
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here in Scott County, Iowa
we have opti-scanners. You vote, slide the paper ballot into the machine, and it counts it. I've seen it work and we've never had even a whiff of controversy here. It is all bipartisan as well. It works and other places should do it too.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I live in Iowa as well, and have always used optical scan ballots.
But here's my point: You put your ballot in the machine, and you see the count increase. You don't see a democrat count increase or a republican count increase, you just see the total number of ballots go up. Later that night, you hear the counts.

Who reported the counts and were they honest? How do you know?

Unless the counting is transparent, you can never know for sure. You just have to trust what they tell you.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You are absolutely right, FatDave! Unless the ballots are COUNTED, in a significant
handcounted audit, there is no way to know that the final totals are correct. No state does better than 1%. That is woefully inadequate in a 'TRADE SECRET' code system (not to mention code owned and controlled by rightwing Bushwhack corporations). Some experts say 10% is the MINIMUM necessary to detect fraud or error. Venezuela does a 55% audit, and they have an OPEN SOURCE code system (anyone may review the code by which the votes are tabulated).

Our system--touchscreen OR optiscan--is made to order to large scale, electronic, insider fraud. It is a system that Joe Stalin would admire. ("It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes.")
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. he was tombstoned a long time ago. I am not sure why
Edited on Tue Oct-28-08 04:57 PM by hfojvt
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. kick (nt)
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